US expats - pay your taxes or lose your passport

[Dustdevil]

US citizens not retired living in Thailand with a family, and working as a Teacher for the last 15 years or so, earning a good salary paid by a Thai school is required to file and pay annual US taxes?

No. We have to file the forms every year, but only pay taxes on amounts earned OVER $96,000.

[Siameaze]

IRS has a "Fresh Start" program if back taxes (plus penalty and interest) don't exceed $50000. They wil work out an installment program that gives up to 6 years to pay off the back tax debt. I have heard where even higher debts can be scheduled if you talk with them

[Time Traveller]

I think quite a few would be happy to lose their passport to stop paying taxes. Even give up citizenship is made difficult by the US govt.

I cannot understand people who want to be US citizens, its like the Hotel California.

Well their income tax rates are pretty low compared with the rest of the developed world. For instance, with deductions and allowances almost half of all households have no federal tax liability. In my case, I calculated on household income up to just to $90k I would have all federal income taxes refunded.

Pretty good compared with the times I worked in Australia (where I lost almost half to tax) and Thailand (where I lost around a third to tax).

The laws are mainly intended to catch the large tax evaders.

[ksamuiguy]

Since 1974, I have worked overseas, I file my taxes every year, I vote in every election, I served My Country in Vietnam. I keep up with what is happening in America. I have NEVER had a problem, I follow the rules, many I don't like , but they are the rules. Easy and I don't have to look over my shoulder. "God Bless America".

[Geordie59]

I think quite a few would be happy to lose their passport to stop paying taxes. Even give up citizenship is made difficult by the US govt.

I cannot understand people who want to be US citizens, its like the Hotel California.

Losing your passport is OK if you get another from a different country. If not you would have trouble doing those visa runs etc.

[sirineou]

I dont understand the outrage over this

I was under the impression that a passport can be revoked for people who have committed a crime to prevent the perpetrator from leaving the country until the matter has being resolved,

I am also under the impression that not paying your taxes is a crime , so why not apply to this crime the same that could be applied to other crimes?

[Oorinara]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

The UK does.

The Philippines does too, though their enforcement is very loose.

[chicowoodduck]

Just pay the sticker and don't dicker...?

If you owe taxes than why not pay up your obligation like the rest of us....I don't feel any pain for those who get the hook on their passports.....slackers....??

[sirineou]

Just pay the sticker and don't dicker...?

If you owe taxes than why not pay up your obligation like the rest of us....I don't feel any pain for those who get the hook on their passports.....slackers....??

be kind, they are not slackers, they are deadbeats

[jpb1963]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

An Aussie friend of mine told me yesterday that the bank is taking 10% of his interest return on his savings as he is not resident in Australia. His bank was ordered to by the taxman. He did give me a name for it but it escapes me at the moment.

It's called withholding tax. Pretty much every country in the western world applies it to interest income paid from their country to non-residents. You can deduct it from any tax you pay in your country of residence if both countries have signed a double tax treaty.

JMC why spruik about something that you clearly have no knowledge of what so ever,

Under australian tax laws your global income is subjected to the australian tax system, even if you pay taxes in the host country you must top up the differential to the ATO (if the taxes paid in the host country are less than what you would be required to pay in australia)

furthermore you can live and work overseas for several years and you will be assessed for the duration of this time. I work in a global industry and have met many individuals over the years that have been scalped by the tax man upon returning to australia

These forums are intended to provide people some information and relevance and people like yourself that bang off rubbish only dilute the value of a thread.

this law applies in many other western countries and any country that has signed tax treaties with Australia reciprocate data as required.

[HannahD]

The reason the US government is broke is because high income individuals and corporations are able to influence (buy) an adequate number of Members of Congress to provide them with exceptionally advantageous tax treatment. That includes very favorable rates as well as a multiplicity of exemptions and legalized dodges which in some cases can reduce tax to zero or even less. Typical of sociopaths, these high income individuals and corporations care nothing about the public good caring only for themselves. Unless the people of the US somehow manage to elect a majority Congress that cares about public good there will be no change for the better and there will be an inexorable decline to ultimate collapse. History is not encouraging.

[sirineou]

The reason the US government is broke is because high income individuals and corporations are able to influence (buy) an adequate number of Members of Congress to provide them with exceptionally advantageous tax treatment. That includes very favorable rates as well as a multiplicity of exemptions and legalized dodges which in some cases can reduce tax to zero or even less. Typical of sociopaths, these high income individuals and corporations care nothing about the public good caring only for themselves. Unless the people of the US somehow manage to elect a majority Congress that cares about public good there will be no change for the better and there will be an inexorable decline to ultimate collapse. History is not encouraging.

Unless of course we elect Trump for POTUS because he is nothing like the sociopaths you described above

[shirtless]

Why go after the little people , when corporations owe billions , how about taxing the big guys .

[Andrew65]

Many years ago, you couldn't get out of Australia if you didn't have a tax clearance. I suppose it has changed now.

....many years before that, it was quite hard to get in there without a criminal record. Now, a Kylie record is adequate

[craigt3365]

Biggest joke of all . The USA , the country of liberal free market capitalism demands the passport holders have to file tax returns in a foreign country. Always laugh when Americans in BKK tell me about US bureaucracy. Very State socialist.

As a tax payer, if you owe taxes, you should pay them. I'm sure your country demands the same thing?

The US has a very low marginal tax rate. Especially when compared to many European countries. And has been mentioned before, if you make less than 96,000 overseas, no taxes are paid.

I've got a friend from Norway who tells me about his tax issues. Incredible. He can't even be out of the country for over 6 months or loses all his benefits. I'll stick with the US.

[Langsuan Man]

The US had has been refusing to issue or renew passports of those US Citizens that owe child support for years, now they are just going after tax cheats

No outrage over deadbeat dads but nothing but vitriol when it comes to income tax evaders; why the difference ?

[prism]

Another gem buried in the 864 pages of the bill is a provision that allows the government to revoke your passport if they believe that you owe more than $50,000 in federal tax.

There will be no judicial review, and no due process. You don’t get to go in front of a judge first to have a fair and impartial hearing over whether or not the government’s tax allegations are accurate.

The language in the law is very clear: they can simply revoke your passport if you owe them money in their sole discretion.

Once the law is passed, this would go into effect on January 1, 2016, and they claim it will generate $40 million per year in tax revenue.

.

This is the third time its been included in bills, and been removed before passage both times. Maybe it will get through this time??

Are you a U.S. citizen registered to vote? Maybe write your congressperson, the vote is next month. Make your voice heard. I'm not against going after tax cheats but between this and the FATCA act, ordinary Americans living abroad are being severely impacted by these new regulations that keep coming.

[impulse]

Just pay the sticker and don't dicker...

If you owe taxes than why not pay up your obligation like the rest of us....I don't feel any pain for those who get the hook on their passports.....slackers....

Not always as easy as you may think. Even the IRS's own Taxpayer Advocate Service regularly rips into the IRS in its annual reports to Congress on its treatment of expat taxpayers for its complexity, the burden of compliance and violating the rights of taxpayers with its reporting requirements.

If you have a "linear" job, maybe it's simple. For others with self employment income and legitimate expenses- not so simple. Lots of horror stories in the news the past few years.

https://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/advocate-report-highlights-concerns-overseas-filers/

[NancyL]

Any of you guys who aren't filing U.S. tax returns when you should aren't doing your Thai families any favors at all. There's a very good chance that they'll have to deal with a big mess with the I.R.S. after your death if they want to claim your estate if you still have any assets in the U.S. And they probably won't be as able to handle the paperwork as you are.

So, if you love your Thai wife and children, do the right thing and "get right with the I.R.S." now even if you don't agree with the regulations.

[SpokaneAl]

Meanwhile corporations get away with paying nothing so they come down on the easiest targets, us the taxpayer

Exactly.

No matter how much tax is levied on a US corporation, if it is well run and profitable, taxes are a part of the cost of goods/products sold and are merely added to the price and passed on to the consumer. There is no value, IMO of course, in raising corporate income taxes, in that those taxes are merely passed on.

There is no free lunch.

[bangkoklawyer24]

This is already applicable law in Germany, as shown in the German language article <here>

[SpokaneAl]

Why go after the little people , when corporations owe billions , how about taxing the big guys .

Corporations owe billions? I would like to see your reference and data backing up your allegation.

[lopburi3]

Any of you guys who aren't filing U.S. tax returns when you should aren't doing your Thai families any favors at all. There's a very good chance that they'll have to deal with a big mess with the I.R.S. after your death if they want to claim your estate if you still have any assets in the U.S. And they probably won't be as able to handle the paperwork as you are.

So, if you love your Thai wife and children, do the right thing and "get right with the I.R.S." now even if you don't agree with the regulations.

Do the tax form as a test - it will only take a few minutes - you can do free online. Suspect you will find a total due amount that is less than what you pay in VAT most places. The US Federal tax rate is really quite reasonable. And if you have a non working Thai spouse filing as married joint return may also be an advantage.

[impulse]

Why go after the little people , when corporations owe billions , how about taxing the big guys .

Corporations owe billions? I would like to see your reference and data backing up your allegation.

Here's one (of many)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/coca-cola-could-face-3-3-billion-tax-liability-over-foreign-license-accounting-1442591946

[OJAS]

Would not surprise me in the slightest if the jolly old taxman at HMRC were, sooner rather than later, to press for similar measures to be introduced for defaulting UK taxpayers!

Strangely enough the UK government simply cannot afford to update my pension, but they can afford stateless immigrants to come to the UK for free.

One thing they never seem to forget though is to tax me on my pensions every year.

Same here!

And strangely enough the UK government simply cannot afford to provide me with free NHS cover any longer either - but can for stateless immigrants!

Nor are they able to acknowledge in any way the savings I as an expat retiree am making to UK plc through not claiming the winter fuel allowance or a free bus pass!

If all that wasn't enough, I shall now be subject to the tedious "With-It Tower Experience" when the time comes to renew my passport. So if I were to withhold my taxes from the jolly old taxman at HMRC and my passport was withdrawn as a result, that might at least spare me that particular agony!

Edited November 22, 2015 by OJAS

[Linky]

I would never notify any authorities about anyone not paying tax.

In Australia avoiding paying tax is considered a national sport. Only an idiot pays all the tax he owes.

To quote Kerry Packer in front of the australian senate enquiry.....

I am not evading in any way, shape or form. Of course, I am minimising my tax. Anybody in this country who does not minimise his tax wants his head read. I can tell you as a government that you are not spending it so well that we should be donating extra.

[billd766]

Would not surprise me in the slightest if the jolly old taxman at HMRC were, sooner rather than later, to press for similar measures to be introduced for defaulting UK taxpayers!

Strangely enough the UK government simply cannot afford to update my pension, but they can afford stateless immigrants to come to the UK for free.

One thing they never seem to forget though is to tax me on my pensions every year.

Same here!

And strangely enough the UK government simply cannot afford to provide me with free NHS cover any longer either - but can for stateless immigrants!

Nor are they able to acknowledge in any way the savings I as an expat retiree am making to UK plc through not claiming the winter fuel allowance or a free bus pass!

If all that wasn't enough, I shall now be subject to the tedious "With-It Tower Experience" when the time comes to renew my passport. So if I were to withhold my taxes from the jolly old taxman at HMRC and my passport was withdrawn as a result, that might at least spare me that particular agony!

A while ago I wrote to my new MP (I didn't vote for her) and asked if she would be supporting an early day motion in levelling out our pensions.

Her reply was that the government couldn't afford it. I couldn't be bothered to tell her that if I moved to a country that did ensure that I got the increase the UK would HAVE to pay it, so the money is there, but the moral willpower from the government is not.

[elgordo38]

The reason the US government is broke is because high income individuals and corporations are able to influence (buy) an adequate number of Members of Congress to provide them with exceptionally advantageous tax treatment. That includes very favorable rates as well as a multiplicity of exemptions and legalized dodges which in some cases can reduce tax to zero or even less. Typical of sociopaths, these high income individuals and corporations care nothing about the public good caring only for themselves. Unless the people of the US somehow manage to elect a majority Congress that cares about public good there will be no change for the better and there will be an inexorable decline to ultimate collapse. History is not encouraging.

Ah a kindred spirit who does not wear rose colored glasses. One should take a look at how these acts were passed and whether they are legal. I understand the IRS act was obligated to be passed by a majority of the states which apparently it wasn't. Another good read is how the government handed control of the country over to the Federal Reserve. As Mayer Rothschild once said "Let me control the nations banking system I care not who makes the laws" Apparently they took advantage of the many politicians at Christmas time in 1913 when they were home celebrating the holiday to skewer the vote in the middle of the night. Yes folks these are the same people who love you well only at election time.

[Gillyflower]

I get a small Canadian pension and the taxes are taken out before it gets into my hot little hands.

[Jdiddy]

If Australia did something similar i'd like to see them take away my New Zealand passport