US downgrades Thai air safety rating

[billd766]

America is jealous of Thai Airlines and this reason for the ruling

Jealous of why?

Nok Air, Orient Airlines, R Airways ?

This issue is not so much about Thai Airways but about the Airport Authority of Thailand.

Fly from Don Muang and you will notice 4-5 Thai Airways jets that have been parked their for over a year already and they seem to have a maintenance issue.

They might be the gas guzzling Airbus 340s that Thai have put too high a price on. Because of that they can't shift them and the value is dropping on a daily basis while the price remains too high.

[Mot Dang]

This down-grading is for major deficiencies noted against Thai AirAsia X, does anyone know if similar criticism has been leveled at Thai International ?

[Mot Dang]

Fishing industry: doing down

Airline industry: going down

Human rights rating: going down

Freedom of the press: doing down

Dreams of a promised free election: going down

Happiness of the Thai population by providing participation in bicycle events:

Jumping up through the roof?

The rich getting richer: by the minute.

[Usernames]

This is a pity. Back during the Vietnam War and after, Thailand had developed some of the best aviation standards in the region. I know some of those guys that are still around, from the Thai and American side. They were professionals, mainly because the US had egalitarian standards in their training and maintenance programs as well as flight training programs. But all that has gone to hell in a handbasket today. Oh, well, at least Thailand can fly back and forth to China. But THIS entire event is a concrete demonstration of the costs of Thailand ditching its American patron for a Chinese one. A very bad move.

Actually it isn't anything to do with China.

It is far more to do with the lack of control by many Thai governments going back many years combined with the ability of making brown envelopes magically disappear and Mercedes Benz to appear in its place a little while later.

Corruption and nepotism are still found in large quantities and in many places in Thailand but don't seem to work all that well internationally.

The US used to give Thailand the benefit of the doubt. The turn towards China cost Thailand that advantage. But as I said the biggest fall off is the decline in maintenance and training standards that the US fostered in Thailand during the 1960s and 1970s. That professionalism is gone. And replaced almost utterly by the nepotism and corruption you mention.

You can certainly come up with examples.

Or are you just nostalgic about the Vietnam war era?

You'll need to wait and watch the TV show.

[elgordo38]

bizarre ...

FAA: THAI has a problem

THAI: we have no problem & we operate with the highest international standards

THAI: and even if we didn't, it's still not a problem because we canceled our only flight to America.

Bringing the system up to snuff takes "MONEY" something that the powers that be do not want to part with until absolutely necessary. They play the BS card first. They do not realize one must spend money to make money. Money here travels a one way street only into government coffers. Only a lost of face or tourism uproar slowly opens the lid of said coffers to spit out a token (band aid)amount

Edited December 2, 2015 by elgordo38

[crazydrummerpauly]

Thailand Aviation Downgraded by US Federal Aviation Administration

BY JACOB MASLOW

Phuket, Thailand - October 25, 2014: AirAsia plane takes off from Phuket Airport. AirAsia group operates scheduled domestic and international flights to 100 destinations spanning 22 countries

BANGKOK: -- Thailand aviation sector has been downgraded by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) on Tuesday. The downgrade may result in a ripple effect, with bans occurring around the world for Thailand airlines.

In July 2015, the assessment was made that indicated Thailand did not meet international regulations for flight. The FAA has reassessed the situation, finding that the country still does not meet the standards needed for safe flights.

Discussions with Thailand authorities ended on October 28. Thailand was previously a Category 1 airliner and has since been downgraded to Category 2 by the FAA. Thailand was a Category 1 operator since 1997, which allowed the country to operate flights in the United States and launch new services.

Full story: http://ethailand.com/business-news/thailand-aviation-downgraded-by-us-federal-aviation-administration/560/

-- eThailand 2015-12-02

I thought this thread was about 'THAI AIR' - why the image of an AIR ASIA plane ?

[mr_lob]

Awaiting next headline ''CRACKDOWN ON FOREIGNERS COMPLAINING ABOUT THAI AVIATION SAFETY STANDARDS''

[bark]

Thailand will make everything OK. They only need more time. They will improve by 50 %, no wait 60 %. No wait 80 %. Yes 80 %. This is a great number, 80 %.

They will become the HUB !!!

[Lupatria]

PM orders immediate improvements of aviation industry

Could it be possible someone’s in the need of an explanation?

[Usernames]

http://graphics.wsj.com/asia-aviation/

[lostmebike]

America is jealous of Thai Airlines and this reason for the ruling

What planet do you come from?

[micmichd]

bizarre ...

FAA: THAI has a problem

THAI: we have no problem & we operate with the highest international standards

THAI: and even if we didn't, it's still not a problem because we canceled our only flight to America.

Bringing the system up to snuff takes "MONEY" something that the powers that be do not want to part with until absolutely necessary. They play the BS card first. They do not realize one must spend money to make money. Money here travels a one way street only into government coffers. Only a lost of face or tourism uproar slowly opens the lid of said coffers to spit out a token (band aid)amount

Quite one-sided.

You have to make money first before you can spend it, eg. by working for it.

[Pib]

Just to refresh everyone on what the Category 2 Rating means as cut and pasted/partially quoted from the FAA Announcement

A Category 2 International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) rating means that the country either lacks laws or regulations necessary to oversee air carriers in accordance with minimum international standards, or its civil aviation authority – a body equivalent to the FAA for aviation safety matters – is deficient in one or more areas, such as technical expertise, trained personnel, record-keeping, or inspection procedures. With a Category 2 rating, Thailand’s carriers can continue existing service to the United States. They will not be allowed to establish new service to the United States.

[waldroj]

Should the EU follow the FAA lead and impose sanctions on Thai aircraft, this may prompt Thailand to respond with some punitive measures of their own.

For example, they may ban all American and European flights into the country - that'll show all those tourists that wanted to visit Thailand!

[taony]

Big Daddy America is at again...Playing the Global Police Role Perfectly.

1. Please tell America to stop touching by balls by your TSAs

2. Please tell your Cabin Crew to treat Passengers as human beings

3. Please tell your Cabin Crew to SMILE

4. Please do not make me pay extra fees for everything under the sun

5. Please make good food.

and ohhh yeah...

There is no airport in America that can compete with Suvernabhumi even with all the problems it has.

Look at the ratings. American Airports get lower rating than Thai.

Travelling in America has become a nightmare for a reason.

You are way off base. Earlier in the year ICAO issued a report that came to the same conclusions as the FAA. Other Asian countries such as China, Japan, and South Korea placed the same sanctions on Thailand as the FAA just did based on the ICAO findings. The USA didn't until its own aviation authority did its own audit and came to the same conclusion. Expect the EU to be next as well as whoever else decides to tag along.

[Lupatria]

America is jealous of Thai Airlines and this reason for the ruling

What planet do you come from?

Not planet Thailand, the other one of course: planet USA...

[than]

bizarre ...

FAA: THAI has a problem

THAI: we have no problem & we operate with the highest international standards

THAI: and even if we didn't, it's still not a problem because we canceled our only flight to America.

Very strange I read and reread the FAA announcement, and i'm not found any reference to Thai Airways International (THAI TG/THA)

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19814

[Pib]

Should the EU follow the FAA lead and impose sanctions on Thai aircraft, this may prompt Thailand to respond with some punitive measures of their own.

For example, they may ban all American and European flights into the country - that'll show all those tourists that wanted to visit Thailand!

Thailand may be loading their pistol already.

[Benmart]

Seems that doing damage to this country's image is a cottage industry. No amount of smoke-screen advertising, sing-song rhetoric and banner waiving will cure the numerous ills that have, unfortunately, befallen the truly wonderful, common people.

The international, airline regulatory agencies are usually in-step with one another when it comes to sanctions, restrictions and airline banning. I will watch this with great interest.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Benmart

[Pib]

bizarre ...

FAA: THAI has a problem

THAI: we have no problem & we operate with the highest international standards

THAI: and even if we didn't, it's still not a problem because we canceled our only flight to America.

Very strange I read and reread the FAA announcement, and i'm not found any reference to Thai Airways International (THAI TG/THA)

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19814

It applies to all Thailand air carriers.

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) today announced that the Kingdom of Thailand does not comply with International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) safety standards and has been assigned a Category 2 ratingbased on a reassessment of the country’s civil aviation authority.

Thailand’s carriers can continue existing service to the United States. They will not be allowed to establish new service to the United States.

[Lupatria]

Should the EU follow the FAA lead and impose sanctions on Thai aircraft, this may prompt Thailand to respond with some punitive measures of their own.

For example, they may ban all American and European flights into the country - that'll show all those tourists that wanted to visit Thailand!

Thailand may be loading their pistol already.

Capture.JPG

By chance there is already a Thai team on the way to ask North Korea's authorities to share their advanced expertise in this case.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Lupatria

[Kiwisailor]

Air New Zealand is advertising direct flights to HCMC starting next year priced 1000-1200 NZD. This is similar to that of Qantas to BKK $1200 with 1 stopover and Malaysia 1000-1100 NZD with 1 to 2 stopovers (up to 6 hours each!). Thai offers direct BKK for 1800 NZD. HCMC is now looking like our new SEA hub for travel.

[scorecard]

This is why they canceled flight to LAX they do not care. China is there new savoir and China has no silly rules. If the EU cuts them off then maybe they may pull there heads out of there asses.

Not quite true, China recently made criticism of the same points about civil aviation standards in Thailand.

[sawadee1947]

Another nail in the Thai coffin.

Exactly and how many other countries, groupings like the EU etc are now preparing their hammer and nails ?

if it is to teach them a lesson...? Why not...?

[retarius]

Hold on a minute didn't the good general set up some committees to make a five point plan on Powerpoint when Japan refused Thai charter flights? You cannot be serious when you tell me that setting up the committee with the five points on Powerpoint hasn't solved the problem! C'est incroyable!

Committees being set up and five point plans have solved every issue from slavery on the high seas to corruption for tea money, why hasn't it worked here?

[tingtongfarang]

I have the feeling that if not for the FAA along with similar controlling bodies thailand would attempt to run its airlines along the same lines as their land transport systems, buses and vans.

[sanukjim]

Hey look what I found in my Cracker Jacks box.It's a pilots certificate for Thai airlines.Should I have to go to flight school for a long time now to start flying for Thai ? Naa,just for a while .here let me show you how to add flight time in your log book with a Parker Pen.

[harada]

bizarre ...

FAA: THAI has a problem

THAI: we have no problem & we operate with the highest international standards

THAI: and even if we didn't, it's still not a problem because we canceled our only flight to America.

Very strange I read and reread the FAA announcement, and i'm not found any reference to Thai Airways International (THAI TG/THA)

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19814

. Yes the Thai Inter thing is a separate issue, they're still trying to work out why they are losing 100 million baht a day.

[smedly]

Lets wait and see....I think constant pressure from the outside will eventually lead to increased transportation safety. Not only airlines, but rail, busses, commercial vans and highway safety. Airlines are only a small sector of the transportation problem here.

Beautiful country and people...just need some higher standards when dealing with tourism.

you make a very interesting point but unfortunately I do not see it ever happening unless there is a willingness from within.

The airline business is a special case because it is international - Thai aircraft have to fly in other countries and indeed meet certain safety requirements and standards set outside of Thailand. The country is also being pressured on their export business were again outside pressure and international standards can be set, food - vehicles etc.

All of this costs money and the only way to get Thailand to spend money on such things is through regulations set outside Thailand which is great for those particular things.

Improving road/rail/sea transportation safety standards is an internal thing and again requires money which they are simply not willing to spend, greed rules here, money gets rammed into pocket as fast as possible giving zero consideration as to what the costs are to get it, serious bus accidents are reported in Thailand several times a week, in the west you may get the odd serious bus accident reported on a yearly interval, what has Thailand done to address this - nothing from what I can see.

As for airline safety, it seems obvious that they do not have the skill/expertise level required to make the required changes, the answer is simple - they need to bring in outside assistance which costs huge money, fortunately the bottom line is - they don't have a choice, it has to happen sooner or later

The sooner they recognise they are "not the hub of anything" the sooner improvements will actually be made.

[smedly]

I have the feeling that if not for the FAA along with similar controlling bodies thailand would attempt to run its airlines along the same lines as their land transport systems, buses and vans.

exactly