Why did the police close ChiangMai Saloon?

[Trujillo]

Even my wife likes to go to C.M. Saloon sometimes and watch the carnival-like atmosphere on the street.

I thought the area was supposed to be dead. Are you saying the walking dead are in LK? >..<

[thaiduncankk]

A few years ago I told a policemen to &lt;deleted&gt; off, albeit in a different province.

I was locked up for the night, then on release they advised me I was being charged with 'working without a work permit ! They even asked me which date was suitable for me to attend the court !

I contacted 3 different 'reputable' lawyers and explained my predicament, I never worked, was only a figurehead, and my only 'job' as such, was talking and socialising with customers. They had no photographic evidence at all.

All 3 agreed and were prepared to defend me, the police were after my deportation, they said I could not lose.. However, surprisingly, after they all contacted the police for their version of events, all 3 called me saying they were no longer prepared to take on the case !

I was put in touch with a lawyer, perfect English, educated in England, with big political connections here, and arranged a meeting. I sat down with him and was told it impossible for me to win the case. It boiled down to the fact that if I was to beat the police in a court case, it was going to involve a massive 'loss of face', and they would simply make up so much false evidence, it would be impossible for me to win. It was also too late to buy my way out of it as it had been set a court date !

Behind closed door meetings were arranged between police chiefs and his family, and it was organized that I would lose they case, making a huge saving of face for the police, but I would get off pretty lightly.

On the day of the court date, I was locked in a holding cell with about 70 shackled prisoners, all on remand awaiting sentence, waiting to be called up for my prosecution. My name was called and they handcuffed me and took me in front of the judges.

I was actually charged on 3 counts, not sure what the other 2 were, and as advised by my lawyer to accept the charges. I had never been so nervous in my life, never mind Thailand !

The outcome was that I was fined the minimum for each charge, (2,000, 1,000 & 1,000 baht, total 4,000 baht), but was placed on 12 months probation, meaning I had to avoid any trouble during this period or face very serious consequences.

The ironic thing was, my place was actually still trading whilst I was being charged, and did until I thankfully got out of the game a year ago.

One bright note was, that they lawyer and his family would not charge me anything for their intervention in the case.

[Sandy Freckle]

I've enjoyed a quiet drink at the mentioned bar..., but I'm not a big drinker..., just an infrequent cold beer now and again..., and maybe a glass of wine or 2 with a special meal or occasion etc etc.
Neither is it my habit to go out seeking the company of 'Butterflies of the Night'..., although I am a 'red blooded' bloke.
But, I have always accepted other 'peoples free choices' are exactly that..., "other peoples free choices"
To 'sanctimoniously' throw muck at other peoples free choices, usually reflects more negativity upon the thrower of the muck than the implied receiver of the thrown muck...., ne cest pas ?
hoo flung dung -

[dave2]

re

I thought the area was supposed to be dead.

it was at 9 ish last night

and thaphae gate area wasnt much better at 7 30 either

dave2

[LannaGuy]

Here's a different perspective.

Not really a drinker myself, simply by choice. At this point, in my mid-forties, I just don't have much taste for it anymore. Alcohol is for special occasions, a reunion with old friends, a romantic evening, etc. When I do pop a cork, it's not on LK.

There's no denying that the country has a serious problem with alcohol. Some days it seems that half the population is drunk, the other half hungover. In fact, I have learned to ascribe the terrible service one gets in retail and service situations--spaced out, lethargic, even surly--to the great national daily hangover. So I don't mind sitting out the ritual of public intoxication.

Similarly, bargirls don't do it for me, however I do believe that commercial sex work is a legitimate profession and should be treated as such. It's one thing for a wide-eyed westerner to indulge himself fresh off the boat. Much beyond that, after you know the country, people, and language, habitually sleeping with uneducated, financially desperate women-- often abused and abandoned by men since birth-- for a few bucks a pop is more a reflection of your own character than "when in Rome"-style cultural exploration. For me, it's less a matter of public morality than self respect.

And honestly, if you're even halfway clued in, a dalliance is not hard to come by, without bars or barfines. I mean, really guys, have you no game at all? In other words, when I do pop a cork, it's not on LK.

All this is to say that I'm neither a teetotallar nor a prude (nor, usually, a snob, though I expect some will challenge it). I won't be picketing LK. But I don't see the stricter rules as an assassination of the city's charm, nor an unconscionable assault on liberty or economy. To me "business owners" are not some cherished class whose interests must be protected at all costs. Certainly not these businesses. Fact is the LK bars are an anachronism, bound to fade away sooner or later.

Oh, and to keep my post on topic, I went to Chiang Mai Saloon for a burger once, about 8-9 years ago. It was ok.

I've just zipped up my flame-proof sleeping bag.

This thread, unless I have somehow mistaken it, is not about your preferences but about one bar being closed? your predilection for BGs, drinking or whatever is irrelevant. Some of us enjoy drinking there and it is not 'bound to fade away' well how long has it been there? it is being destroyed, as are many businesses, by the current 'righteous government', you know the one that locks people up for FB comments etc.? actually you sound a little 'righteous' yourself

So thanks for the diatribe can we get back on topic? happy 'cork popping'

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Where you can you drink along LK now without having to share space with bar girls and kii noks?

The real question being, why would you want to drink on LK if you weren't looking for hookers (of either sex)?

Because:

• It's fun, especially by yourself. Going alone to a more Thai place you mostly just look like a lone weirdo.
• It's nice meeting people from all over the world. Some arrived yesterday, others have been here half a lifetime. Outside LK you do get your Thais and foreigners, the latter trying so hard to be Thai it's ridiculous.
• The blues.. Many of the girls are actually interesting characters, with an interesting story. It's refreshing to connect with that world, not just the middle class and wannabe-middleclass posers.
• It's safe. Anywhere else a prime reason for girls flirt with you is to make their boyfriend jealous. Sometimes that works.
• It's affordable. And you can easily order mixed drinks by the glass, instead of having to go for a whole bottle + mixers. (Again something that works better with a group)
• The whole arrangement and vibe is more conducive to having a chat, as opposed to all separate tables.
• It does get nice and crazy in some places, some of the time. You never quite know which bar: the one that was insane the night before can be dead the next. But at some point somewhere, laughs are to be had.

[joebloggs1234]

re

I thought the area was supposed to be dead.

it was at 9 ish last night

and thaphae gate area wasnt much better at 7 30 either

dave2

Though it was bloody freezing last night. Was quiet all over, up by CMU was the same.

[elektrified]

Here's a different perspective.

Not really a drinker myself, simply by choice. At this point, in my mid-forties, I just don't have much taste for it anymore. Alcohol is for special occasions, a reunion with old friends, a romantic evening, etc. When I do pop a cork, it's not on LK.

There's no denying that the country has a serious problem with alcohol. Some days it seems that half the population is drunk, the other half hungover. In fact, I have learned to ascribe the terrible service one gets in retail and service situations--spaced out, lethargic, even surly--to the great national daily hangover. So I don't mind sitting out the ritual of public intoxication.

Similarly, bargirls don't do it for me, however I do believe that commercial sex work is a legitimate profession and should be treated as such. It's one thing for a wide-eyed westerner to indulge himself fresh off the boat. Much beyond that, after you know the country, people, and language, habitually sleeping with uneducated, financially desperate women-- often abused and abandoned by men since birth-- for a few bucks a pop is more a reflection of your own character than "when in Rome"-style cultural exploration. For me, it's less a matter of public morality than self respect.

And honestly, if you're even halfway clued in, a dalliance is not hard to come by, without bars or barfines. I mean, really guys, have you no game at all? In other words, when I do pop a cork, it's not on LK.

All this is to say that I'm neither a teetotallar nor a prude (nor, usually, a snob, though I expect some will challenge it). I won't be picketing LK. But I don't see the stricter rules as an assassination of the city's charm, nor an unconscionable assault on liberty or economy. To me "business owners" are not some cherished class whose interests must be protected at all costs. Certainly not these businesses. Fact is the LK bars are an anachronism, bound to fade away sooner or later.

Oh, and to keep my post on topic, I went to Chiang Mai Saloon for a burger once, about 8-9 years ago. It was ok.

I've just zipped up my flame-proof sleeping bag.

Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better.

[elektrified]

re

I thought the area was supposed to be dead.

it was at 9 ish last night

and thaphae gate area wasnt much better at 7 30 either

dave2

It's a sign of the times. There is no shortage whatsoever of tourists. I went out the last 3 nights and was out late. The Nimmanhaemann area was absolutely packed with Chinese tourists and Thai tourists from Bangkok there for the Festivals. Shoulder to shoulder. I had to meet someone at one of the larger hotels in the city the other day. The hotel was full with Japanese and Korean golf tourists, etc. I over-heard a woman asking for a room and the response was that every room was booked for the next 3 days. My wife told me that at the place she is working at on an assignment for 3 months, that there is a steady stream of mini-vans all day and on until 23:00 at night, packed with Japanese, Chinese, Malaysian, and Korean tourists. They had to hire temporary staff to accommodate all the request for spa treatments that go on until 1:00 A.M. every night. She said that when she leaves that there is never less than 20 mini-vans parked outside.

There are less Western tourists visiting Chiang Mai as the tide has changed and Chiang Mai has an influx of Asian tourists that come here and spend thousands each day on luxury services, shopping for name brands at MAYA, etc. The beer bars with cheap whores that used to attract Western tourists on a budget don't see much trade anymore. The Asian tourists aren't hanging out on L.K. or at Pratu Thapae.

I might add that I too, don't have anything against the bars, whores, and so forth. Adults should be free to do as they wish with other consenting adults. I'm only commenting on my observations.

[Tywais]

Flame removed.

[luke000]

Walked past there yesterday , not a drink in sight .

Wonder whether they can survive with just selliing food

[Chicog]

re

I thought the area was supposed to be dead.

it was at 9 ish last night

and thaphae gate area wasnt much better at 7 30 either

dave2

It's a sign of the times. There is no shortage whatsoever of tourists. I went out the last 3 nights and was out late. The Nimmanhaemann area was absolutely packed with Chinese tourists and Thai tourists from Bangkok there for the Festivals. Shoulder to shoulder. I had to meet someone at one of the larger hotels in the city the other day. The hotel was full with Japanese and Korean golf tourists, etc. I over-heard a woman asking for a room and the response was that every room was booked for the next 3 days. My wife told me that at the place she is working at on an assignment for 3 months, that there is a steady stream of mini-vans all day and on until 23:00 at night, packed with Japanese, Chinese, Malaysian, and Korean tourists. They had to hire temporary staff to accommodate all the request for spa treatments that go on until 1:00 A.M. every night. She said that when she leaves that there is never less than 20 mini-vans parked outside.

There are less Western tourists visiting Chiang Mai as the tide has changed and Chiang Mai has an influx of Asian tourists that come here and spend thousands each day on luxury services, shopping for name brands at MAYA, etc. The beer bars with cheap whores that used to attract Western tourists on a budget don't see much trade anymore. The Asian tourists aren't hanging out on L.K. or at Pratu Thapae.

I might add that I too, don't have anything against the bars, whores, and so forth. Adults should be free to do as they wish with other consenting adults. I'm only commenting on my observations.

When I visited Phuket last year for the first time in a while, most of the bars on Thaina road (and it was hardly a girly bar scene) were closed and/or for sale.

When I asked around the general consensus is that the Chinese (and Russians) generally do not spend money in bars and restaurants, preferring all-inclusive packages or buying their own food and booze at the shops. (Note that I said "generally", obviously there are still those with money).

What was once a busy street packed with tourists was empty.

Perhaps Chiang Mai is suffering the same fate.

[arunsakda]

A license issued under law is a permit to do that which would otherwise be unlawful (on-sale Booze selling). A license is not a right, but is a privilege, which can be suspended or revoked by administrative action because of violations of statute.

Are on-sale permits issued by the Police Department here?

In any country Police can order a sudden temporary closure in interest of public safety or gross violation, and in most swearing to a Cop will get you locked up of course. How suddenly 5 year bans are handed down proves no administrative process or transparency exists. Anybody must be crazy to try to operate any kind of business under such circumstances.

[bangmai]

I went to Santitham last night. I hadn't been there in months. It was bustling as much as ever. Lots of mom/pops, and lots of bars. Promos and promo girls. Beer prices less than even Makro. I did a night cap on Numman soi 7....probably should have just skipped it. They even gave me a nice cracked glass with my beer that was 60% more than I was paying thirty minutes earlier, and there was about 1/7th the talent on Nimman. Like night and day. One was the old CM; the other was martial law. I haven't been to LK lately, but I'm hypothesizing that this has to do with some very expensive real estate, and the plans for that real estate. There is a plan in place for LK and Nimman...and lots of cheap beer and beautifully slutty girls is not part of that plan. Using the police to chase people of of precious land is as old as Moses. Regarding Chicog's comments about Phuket, and its demise, that pretty much describes what was once a decent strip of action in Chiang Rai, which is now in the same half closed, half boarded up, mostly dead state...someone has decided that the future will be catering to various East Asians. In my younger days, I was very loyal to one bar, and one brand of beer...my attitude now is to always check out the competition, have a few places to be a regular, enjoy the Hell out of good promos, but be ready for the day, when you go back and they act like it never happened, or the business is a pile of broken concrete with a condo sales office in front. MJ's reports on Santitham were 100% true...my advice would be to check it out, and don't drive. I generally will invite people here and there to join me, but many of the farang are just way too uncomfortable to be out of their western shadows. so it's just not worth it, don't need any favors by someone having to go through the pain of 50 THB large Tigers with a dozen young rice queens.

[luke000]

Like night and day. One was the old CM; the other was martial law.

Are you saying that there was no curfew there and bars stayed open until sunrise?

[bangmai]

No, but there weren't police cars circiling the businesses very slowly with their flashing red lights on....

[elektrified]

O.K. we're wondering off topic but since bangmai raised the issue, I'll keep it brief. I was in Chiang Rai last week for the 1st time in about 5 years. Yes, that town is undergoing the same thing as in C.M. The entire downtown square and surrounding areas (including sleazy bars, massage parlours, etc.) are being, or already have been demolished. They are preparing to develop the entire downtown area which is absolutely over-run with Chinese tourists with swank, brand-name shops. I think I actually saw as many Chinese as Thais. Buses were packed with Chinese going to Chiangsaen, Chiang Kong, Doi Mae Salong, etc. Many carrying shopping bags from Central Plaza...

The future is obvious. Asian tourism. That's where the money is.

[luke000]

No, but there weren't police cars circiling the businesses very slowly with their flashing red lights on....

So, it wasnt like Chiang Mai before the curfews then, was it .

[luke000]

O.K. we're wondering off topic but since bangmai raised the issue, I'll keep it brief. I was in Chiang Rai last week for the 1st time in about 5 years. Yes, that town is undergoing the same thing as in C.M. The entire downtown square and surrounding areas (including sleazy bars, massage parlours, etc.) are being, or already have been demolished. They are preparing to develop the entire downtown area which is absolutely over-run with Chinese tourists with swank, brand-name shops. I think I actually saw as many Chinese as Thais. Buses were packed with Chinese going to Chiangsaen, Chiang Kong, Doi Mae Salong, etc. Many carrying shopping bags from Central Plaza...

The future is obvious. Asian tourism. That's where the money is.

That is the bus station that has been demolished and a new bus station will be built in its place .

BTW, are you sure that you wasnt in Singapore ?

[elektrified]

O.K. we're wondering off topic but since bangmai raised the issue, I'll keep it brief. I was in Chiang Rai last week for the 1st time in about 5 years. Yes, that town is undergoing the same thing as in C.M. The entire downtown square and surrounding areas (including sleazy bars, massage parlours, etc.) are being, or already have been demolished. They are preparing to develop the entire downtown area which is absolutely over-run with Chinese tourists with swank, brand-name shops. I think I actually saw as many Chinese as Thais. Buses were packed with Chinese going to Chiangsaen, Chiang Kong, Doi Mae Salong, etc. Many carrying shopping bags from Central Plaza...

The future is obvious. Asian tourism. That's where the money is.

That is the bus station that has been demolished and a new bus station will be built in its place .

BTW, are you sure that you wasnt in Singapore ?

The downtown area across from Night Market is currently being demolished.

[luke000]

^ No, that is the bus station .

[Oscar2]

^ No, that is the bus station .

i was in C.R. on Tuesday and can confirm the entire downtown area is under renovation - not only the bus station. most of the businesses across from the Bazaar on the small sois are closed and some buildings already demolished.

[ramrod711]

There is a plan in place for LK and Nimman...and lots of cheap beer and beautifully slutty girls is not part of that plan.

What kind of plan is that then? Like the Hunt brothers attempting to corner the silver market, or the Shinawatra's trying to corner the rice market, a plan that doesn't include beer and women is bound to fail.

[flyDelight]

Walked past there yesterday , not a drink in sight .

Wonder whether they can survive with just selliing food

Have you checked the large refrigerator in the backside? If the cops were smart they'd take a pic of that everyday, hahaha.

[khwaibah]

Walked past there yesterday , not a drink in sight .

Wonder whether they can survive with just selliing food

Have you checked the large refrigerator in the backside? If the cops were smart they'd take a pic of that everyday, hahaha.

They bought and own the unit that Chiang Mia Saloon is in some where back in 2008 so its a very good guess that it will last as long as they want it to.

[cmsally]

There is a plan in place for LK and Nimman...and lots of cheap beer and beautifully slutty girls is not part of that plan.

What kind of plan is that then? Like the Hunt brothers attempting to corner the silver market, or the Shinawatra's trying to corner the rice market, a plan that doesn't include beer and women is bound to fail.

Probably the same plan that covers the coffee shops. Something like "cute upmarket coffee shop bound to prosper"

Oh whoops not when there are like 20,000 per square metre.

[luke000]

^ No, that is the bus station .

i was in C.R. on Tuesday and can confirm the entire downtown area is under renovation - not only the bus station. most of the businesses across from the Bazaar on the small sois are closed and some buildings already demolished.

Yes, that is part of the bus station redevelopment , the bars and massage parlours are situated a few blocks away ,

This re development is nothing to do with any clamp down on bars , its just a natural development of a run down area .

[luke000]

Walked past there yesterday , not a drink in sight .

Wonder whether they can survive with just selliing food

Have you checked the large refrigerator in the backside? If the cops were smart they'd take a pic of that everyday, hahaha.

Having your licence to sell alcohol doesnt mean that you cannot have alcohol on the premises, it just means that you cannot sell it

[luke000]

I have been to that CM Saloon a few times and it was a well ran place .

Western food at reasonable prices, uniformed staff , free use of computer , free popcorn m cheap beer .

The owner (Ron ?) always seemed approachable and friendly .

They always seemed to abide by the licensing laws, whilst others nearby didnt .

Seems like they are having a hard time at the moment ,

Quite a few TV posters seem to reveling in this fact .

Kick a man when hes down .

Happy at a persons possible demise ,

Although that does reflect on the person, rather than the bar owner .

Its quite an unpleasant state of affairs

[flyDelight]

Walked past there yesterday , not a drink in sight .

Wonder whether they can survive with just selliing food

Have you checked the large refrigerator in the backside? If the cops were smart they'd take a pic of that everyday, hahaha.

Having your licence to sell alcohol doesnt mean that you cannot have alcohol on the premises, it just means that you cannot sell it

Did you ever pay 120b for apple juice?