US $1.83 billion arms sales for Taiwan draws China's ire

[webfact]

US $1.83 billion arms sales for Taiwan draws China's ire
MATTHEW PENNINGTON, Associated Press
CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration announced a $1.83 billion arms sale to Taiwan on Wednesday, drawing an immediate rebuke and threats of retaliation from Taipei's rival Beijing.

The arms package is the first offered by the U.S. to the self-governing island in four years. Even before its announcement, Beijing, which regards Taiwan as part of its territory, demanded it be scrapped to avoid harming relations across the Taiwan Strait and between China and the U.S.

That was followed by a formal diplomatic protest late Wednesday, although at a lower level than in previous such instances.

"China resolutely opposes the sale of weapons to Taiwan by the U.S.," Vice Foreign Minister Zheng Zeguang said in a meeting with Washington's second-highest ranking diplomat in Beijing.

"In order to safeguard the nation's interests, the Chinese side has decided to take necessary measures, including the imposition of sanctions against companies participating in the arms sale to Taiwan," Zheng said, according to a statement posted on the ministry's website.

Such sanctions have been threatened in the past, although there's no evidence they've had any meaningful effect. American and European Union companies are banned from selling military technology to China, and Chinese companies have extensive links with major overseas firms that often have weapon-making divisions.

A U.S. Embassy spokesman, speaking on routine condition of anonymity, declined to comment on the meeting, saying, "we don't get into the content of our diplomatic discussions."

The U.S. maintained there's no need for it to hurt the relationship, which has also been strained by China's island-building in the South China Sea and alleged cybertheft.

The administration notified Congress that the proposed arms package includes two decommissioned U.S. Navy frigates, anti-tank missiles, amphibious assault vehicles and Stinger surface-to-air missiles. There's also support for Taiwan's capabilities in intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance and a weapons system to defend against anti-ship missiles.

Congress has 30 days to review the sale, but it's unlikely to raise objections. There's been mounting bipartisan concern that Taiwan is inadequately armed to defend itself against an increasingly powerful mainland China.

U.S. lawmakers welcomed the announcement. There were calls from both parties for more frequent arms sales to Taiwan.

New York Rep. Eliot Engel, the top-ranking Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said the sale would contribute to peace and stability across the strait. "I wish we would see them on a regular basis," he said.

The committee's Republican chairman, California Rep. Ed Royce, said the administration had "needlessly dragged out" the approval process, and that other Taiwanese requests "have still not seen the light of day."

Sen. John McCain, Republican chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said the U.S. should avoid extended periods during which "fear of upsetting the U.S.-China relationship may harm Taiwan's defense capabilities."

Taiwan's Foreign Ministry cheered the announcement as a sign of healthy ties between Taipei and Washington and rejected claims it would harm relations with Beijing.

The sale will "help maintain peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait and increase our confidence as we engage in dialogue and improves relations across the Taiwan Strait," the ministry said in a statement.

"It also highlights the fact that U.S.-Taiwan relations are indeed at their best ever," the statement said.

However, a pro-Taiwan business group in the U.S. lamented the amount of time taken to process the sale and questioned whether it was adequate in the face of China's rapid military advancements.

"While China has deployed new fighters, submarines, and missiles during the last four years, the U.S. has consistently refused to consider providing Taiwan access to similar platforms, or even aiding their indigenous development," Rupert Hammond-Chambers, president of the U.S.-Taiwan Business Council, said in a statement.

The administration has announced more than $12 billion in arms sales to Taiwan since 2010, but none since $5.9 billion in sales in September 2011 that included upgrades for Taiwan's F-16 fighter jets. That drew a high-level diplomatic protest from Beijing, which suspended some military exchanges with the United States. It did not seriously impair ties.

In the meantime, President Barack Obama has sought greater cooperation with China on issues such as climate change, and the two sides have increased military exchanges to reduce the risk of conflict.

State Department spokesman John Kirby said the U.S. was in contact with both Taiwan and China about the sale, which he said was consistent with U.S. support for Taiwan's ability to defend itself under the Taiwan Relations Act.

"There's no need for it to have any derogatory effect on our relationship with China," Kirby told reporters. "We still want to work to establish a better, more transparent, more effective relationship with China in the region and we're going to continue to work at that."

Relations across the Taiwan Strait have undergone a steady improvement over the past two decades, especially under the China-friendly administration of Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou.
___

Bodeen reported from Beijing.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-12-17

[NeverSure]

The US is the largest buyer of Chinese exports and China is an export driven economy. The US accepts Chinese imports without imposing duties.

Fill in the blanks.

[oneday]

If Beijing wants to play their games of building little islands out of coral atolls and then turning them into armed Navy bases then I guess they are going to have to live with Taiwan buying more arms to protect themselves.

555 "Som-na-naw" big bully.

[Publicus]

Prez Obama waited until after the climate conference just concluded in which the CCP was anxious to sign agreements it could show the folk back home suffering in their thoroughly polluted environment. The air, rivers and lakes, the soil itself, are extensively fouled and largely destroyed. No reason to tick off the CCP about Taiwan until after the successful agreements on climate change.

CCP has 800+ missiles pointed at Taiwan from across the Strait. Its goal is to have the complete amphibious ability to invade the island by 2020. Beijing's intentions short term and long term are to destroy democracy and market economics in Taiwan, same as it is for Hong Kong.

Neither is going to happen. The Taiwan presidential election of January 16 is going to be a Chinese New Year lump of coal to the CCP. The pro-independence Democratic Progressive Party is on track to rout the incumbent Kuomintang party of the pro-Beijing presidency of the sellout Ma Ying-jeou. The CCP's days of its dictated name for Taiwan of "Chinese Taipei" in international events are already effectively ended.

Days are numbered of the name "Republic of China" as well. The days of the 1992 agreement of "one China, two interpretations" smooched over by the KMT are rejected by the DPP. "Republic of Taiwan" is the DPP long preferred name which drives Beijing ballistic.

The Sunflower Revolution of 2015 has led the change of attitude on the island. In May a huge group of citizens seized and held the parliament building to stop the KMT putting through a massive trade deal with the CCP that would have set up Beijing to eventually take control of the economy.

DPP candidate for prez Tsai Ing-wen ranks second in the CCP's detestation to Hillary Rodham Clinton. Both women top the CCP's Enemies List. SecDef Ashton Carter and Japan PM Shinto Abe are tied for third.

Tsai has been running in the mid-40s in polling throughout the year. The KMT yanked its candidate two months ago cause she'd been running no better than the polling teens. Her replacement is a guy who's doing no better.

Tsai and the US infuriated the CCP Dictators when she was welcomed to tour the USA a couple of months ago, during which she set up this arms deal among other major changes in the offing. Tsai then visited Japan to meet wit the elder brother of PM Abe.

The CCP Dictators trying to swarm all over the South China Sea are only showing their stupidity in the numbskull provocation so this is one among many new costs to their klutz behaviors.

And if Ma is smart he'll leave Taiwan immediately after the election. Ma's Beijing encouraged brutality against his DPP predecessor Chen Shui-bian back from 2008 on leaves Ma with few options on Taiwan. Maybe Ma can go join up with another CCP big favorite, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

[SOTIRIOS]

....or is it exactly as China planned it....

[spidermike007]

If Beijing wants to play their games of building little islands out of coral atolls and then turning them into armed Navy bases then I guess they are going to have to live with Taiwan buying more arms to protect themselves.

555 "Som-na-naw" big bully.

In my opinion what we are seeing in the South China Seas, is just the beginning, of a decades long campaign that the CCP is waging, to establish absolute and total world dominance. It is one of their first chess moves. Of course they will object to the US supplying China. And it means nothing. They are heinous, corrupt, power hungry, and positively vicious. They abuse their own people, and they deserve no respect.

[Publicus]

....or is it exactly as China planned it....

Does the post suggest the CCP is in charge, in command, directing and controlling events and the major principals? That the CCP klutzes are supposed to be so smart and so clever?

Fact is CCP are bamboozled by their completely unexpected US initiatives to defend the international status of the SCS. CCP are flumoxed by the widespread support Asean governments have of the US action; their sense of relief. After all, to Beijing the United States is a declining power and a failing economy.

CCP are chessmasters the same as Putin is a chessmaster, i.e., never played chess against anyone they couldn't put in jail. Chinese chess includes a river on the board. Let's call it the Rubicon because Beijing will never cross it to Taiwan.

CCP are not Caesar. They don't have the balls or the brains.

[LawrenceChee]

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war logistically or using their inaccurate nukes and bombs without human tragedies or loss

Chinese on both ends of the straits know this too...they are all Chinese holding different political views and passport Colours

No one is going to shoot each other although for political posturing it's necessary to have a "show and dance"

The only ones panicking and running around like a klutz chicken is the USA who is acting like an aunt on menopause trying to "protect " the Philippines and Taiwanese

Nice job there in Iraq by the way and all the Syrians refugees and European countries taking in the migrants are thanking Uncle Sam again for his "international " intellectual in managing foreign affairs

The Chinese have been talking for years and will carry on talking ...unlike the west ...they have been around for a long time ...mostly talking about wars a few violent ones in between

[Publicus]

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war logistically or using their inaccurate nukes and bombs without human tragedies or loss

Chinese on both ends of the straits know this too...they are all Chinese holding different political views and passport Colours

No one is going to shoot each other although for political posturing it's necessary to have a "show and dance"

The only ones panicking and running around like a klutz chicken is the USA who is acting like an aunt on menopause trying to "protect " the Philippines and Taiwanese

Nice job there in Iraq by the way and all the Syrians refugees and European countries taking in the migrants are thanking Uncle Sam again for his "international " intellectual in managing foreign affairs

The Chinese have been talking for years and will carry on talking ...unlike the west ...they have been around for a long time ...mostly talking about wars a few violent ones in between

Chinese on both ends of the straits know this too...they are all Chinese holding different political views and passport Colours

Wrong again.

People on Taiwan are no longer Chinese. They identify as Taiwanese. The regular scientific polling shows this over recent decades. Give up the ghost.

Taiwan is lost to the CCP as a place where the people consider themselves as Chinese. The identity of the majority of the people of Taiwan is no longer Chinese. The trend began decades ago. The trend of the people on Taiwan as being Taiwanese only continues. It continues to increase and to grow stronger, deeper, broader.

CCP in their wrongheaded long term patience and foolish self-confidence have already lost the island to an opposite identify among the Taiwanese. Because on Taiwan they know that being Chinese at this point in the 21st century means being CCP Chinese.

The same is true btw in Hong Kong. People in HKG now consider themselves Hongkongers, not as CCP Chinese. Scientific tracking surveys over recent decades show the ever increasing majority of people in Hong Kong reject being considered CCP Chinese to instead identify in a very opposite and contrary positive way. As Hongkongers instead.

It is game over for the CCP Dictators of Beijing, in both Taiwan and in Hong Kong.

Because in both Hong Kong and Taiwan, research centers conduct regular surveys on identity. And with both people in both places, these studies have revealed long-term trends that show unmistakably the CCP have lost both places.

Specifically, Hong Kong University researchers conducted their latest survey in June. Their results are striking. Not only do those identifying themselves as Hong Kongers significantly outnumber those identifying themselves as Chinese, but that divergence seems to be growing.

Chinese Check: Forging New Identities in Hong Kong and Taiwan

Taiwan

The latest poll, also conducted in June, found that 60.4 percent of respondents identify as Taiwanese, a historic high and up from 17.6 percent in 1992, when the study was first conducted. Only 32.7 percent of those questioned identified as “both Taiwanese and Chinese,” down from 46.4 percent in 1992. A measly 3.5 percent identified as Chinese, down from 10.5 percent in 1992. (emphasis added)

Hong Kong

Not only do those identifying themselves as Hong Kongers significantly outnumber those identifying themselves as Chinese, but that divergence seems to be growing. These trends are evident across age groups, but particularly pronounced within the 18- to 29-year-old cohort. In 1997, 16.5 percent of 18- to 29-year-olds held an ethnic identity of “Chinese,” a share which dropped to 3.6 percent in the latest survey. Over the same time, the share of young people holding an ethnic identity of “Hongkonger” [sic] increased from 46.2 percent to 53.1 percent. (emphasis added)

https://www.aei.org/publication/chinese-check-forging-new-identities-hong-kong-taiwan-2/

The short term and the long term trend is that the people of Taiwan are Taiwanese; they are not CCP Chinese. Absolutely not CCP Chinese. Exactly the same for the people of Hong Kong. Give up the ghost. History is reversed.

Traditional Chinese culture, language, customs continue in Taiwan and in Hong Kong. Being CCP Chinese however is increasingly rejected. The Dictators in Beijing are sunk again.

(Btw Laurence, where have you been? I can't make these valid points as readily and as easily without your posts. So welcome back to the discussion and kindly do stay. )

Edited December 20, 2015 by Publicus

[Andaman Al]

The entire issue of Arms sales and 'complaining' about it is a nonsense.

Where are we now (others can add more), I think USA, China, Russia, Germany, UK, France sell 99% of the worlds arms. It is big dollar business. That is why middle men like Viktor Bout piss these countries off so much because he does the same but syphons some of the profits from said countries! The arms industry is as dirty as it gets and China crying foul over this is like a bully at school saying it is unfair the teacher tells him off. If the US did not sell to Taiwan then the UK, Germany, France would have done.

Get over it China, you are doing the same throughout Africa every bloody day!

[Publicus]

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war logistically or using their inaccurate nukes and bombs without human tragedies or loss

Chinese on both ends of the straits know this too...they are all Chinese holding different political views and passport Colours

No one is going to shoot each other although for political posturing it's necessary to have a "show and dance"

The only ones panicking and running around like a klutz chicken is the USA who is acting like an aunt on menopause trying to "protect " the Philippines and Taiwanese

Nice job there in Iraq by the way and all the Syrians refugees and European countries taking in the migrants are thanking Uncle Sam again for his "international " intellectual in managing foreign affairs

The Chinese have been talking for years and will carry on talking ...unlike the west ...they have been around for a long time ...mostly talking about wars a few violent ones in between

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war

You forget "soft power,' which is the power of culture. A major reason USA is successful is because it also has soft power. Globalised soft power for a long time. It will continue for a long time.

Soft power originates from the society and the people of the society. Which is why as much as the CCP tries to make its own soft power, it has failed miserably and shall continue to fail miserably in establishing any CCP soft power. You see, the CCP Dictators just don't get it. Soft power does not, cannot, originate at the top among elites, autocrats, oligarchs, those who are massively corrupt and stupid.

CCP China is a cultural and a soft power wasteland. A vast vacuum. it can never be any different or better.

Look at the region and we see Japanese soft power almost everywhere. Japanese soft power is pervasive throughout the region. So is South Korean soft power present and increasing. The Japanese and the South Korean soft power also comes from the people of each democracy where freedom flourishes. It is impossible for soft power or culture to originate with the state. Dictatorship is self defeating.

CCP are born losers and nothing but.

Get yourself out of this CCP Chinese trap Laurence. You're a good guy in many ways. So I suggest you'd be better off accepting the inevitable trends of history. Fighting the obvious and long term trends of history is really unhealthy in many ways. Be accepting.

[tonbridgebrit]

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war logistically or using their inaccurate nukes and bombs without human tragedies or loss

Chinese on both ends of the straits know this too...they are all Chinese holding different political views and passport Colours

No one is going to shoot each other although for political posturing it's necessary to have a "show and dance"

The only ones panicking and running around like a klutz chicken is the USA who is acting like an aunt on menopause trying to "protect " the Philippines and Taiwanese

Nice job there in Iraq by the way and all the Syrians refugees and European countries taking in the migrants are thanking Uncle Sam again for his "international " intellectual in managing foreign affairs

The Chinese have been talking for years and will carry on talking ...unlike the west ...they have been around for a long time ...mostly talking about wars a few violent ones in between

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war

You forget "soft power,' which is the power of culture. A major reason USA is successful is because it also has soft power. Globalised soft power for a long time. It will continue for a long time.

Soft power originates from the society and the people of the society. Which is why as much as the CCP tries to make its own soft power, it has failed miserably and shall continue to fail miserably in establishing any CCP soft power. You see, the CCP Dictators just don't get it. Soft power does not, cannot, originate at the top among elites, autocrats, oligarchs, those who are massively corrupt and stupid.

CCP China is a cultural and a soft power wasteland. A vast vacuum. it can never be any different or better.

Look at the region and we see Japanese soft power almost everywhere. Japanese soft power is pervasive throughout the region. So is South Korean soft power present and increasing. The Japanese and the South Korean soft power also comes from the people of each democracy where freedom flourishes. It is impossible for soft power or culture to originate with the state. Dictatorship is self defeating.

CCP are born losers and nothing but.

Get yourself out of this CCP Chinese trap Laurence. You're a good guy in many ways. So I suggest you'd be better off accepting the inevitable trends of history. Fighting the obvious and long term trends of history is really unhealthy in many ways. Be accepting.

Hello Publcus.

Yes, you are a good writer, but no mater how good your writing is, well, you're banging the 'wrong' drum.

Your views on Hong Kong are certainly odd, even though you have made a good case ! Okay, Hong Kong's economy is massively linked to China's economy, and Hong Kong benefits enormously from this. The flood of main-land Chinese visitors in Hong Kong, lots of them purchase real estate in Hong Kong, and more and more of them working and living in Hong Kong, this benefits Hong Kong massively. Also, during the colonial era, the biggest reason for Hong Kong's economic prosperity was that it was an import-export gate-way into China. I'm sure you know, Hong Kong acted as a trading post, linking China with the rest of the world, this is what made Hong Kong prosperous.

Hong Kong has always recieved migrant workers from China, and even today, I think the bulk of 'Hong Kongers' have grandparents or parents who were born in main-land China. I do have a smirk on my face when Hong Kong has one of the lowest birth-rates in the world. Hong Kong's population has increased by about 50% in the last four decades. This is certainly not by natural growth (a high birth-rate), it's due to Hong Kong 'importing' workers from main-land China and also by Hong Kong men marrying Chinese women and taking them back to Hong Kong. So, Hong Kong is massively linked to China, and it will continue to be. The link is becoming greater. Yes, you are negative towards the actual Beijing government. The Beijing government might change, it has done so already.

What about Taiwan ? I'm not fully sure, but it's a similar situation to Hong Kong I think. Again, an increasing flood of main-land Chinese tourists, some of them buying real estate in Taiwan. And a lot of Taiwan's manufacturing sector was re-located to China about two or three decades ago. Why have a factory in Taiwan if you can move it to main-land China ? So, Taiwan has also massively benefitted from it's link with China. Oh, and throw in Taiwan men marrying main-land Chinese women !

Yes, Publicus, you dis-like the Beijng government. But China has 1.3 billion Chinese, Hong Kong and Taiwan only have a relatively small number of people, they're Chinese too. Accept the point that Hong Kong and Taiwan will continue to be more and more linked to main-land China. See, they want the Chinese to go there, because it is actually about money (economics).

It's almost like saying, a tiny country is on the edge of the European Union. The EU wants them to join. That country wants to join, they get massive economic benefits, but they are a bit wary. Yes, if you join, you end up being swallowed up by the rest of the EU. China will flood Taiwan and Hong Kong, but Hong Kong and Taiwan can't flood China, they haven't got enough people !!

Thanks for reading.

[Publicus]

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war logistically or using their inaccurate nukes and bombs without human tragedies or loss

Chinese on both ends of the straits know this too...they are all Chinese holding different political views and passport Colours

No one is going to shoot each other although for political posturing it's necessary to have a "show and dance"

The only ones panicking and running around like a klutz chicken is the USA who is acting like an aunt on menopause trying to "protect " the Philippines and Taiwanese

Nice job there in Iraq by the way and all the Syrians refugees and European countries taking in the migrants are thanking Uncle Sam again for his "international " intellectual in managing foreign affairs

The Chinese have been talking for years and will carry on talking ...unlike the west ...they have been around for a long time ...mostly talking about wars a few violent ones in between

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war

You forget "soft power,' which is the power of culture. A major reason USA is successful is because it also has soft power. Globalised soft power for a long time. It will continue for a long time.

Soft power originates from the society and the people of the society. Which is why as much as the CCP tries to make its own soft power, it has failed miserably and shall continue to fail miserably in establishing any CCP soft power. You see, the CCP Dictators just don't get it. Soft power does not, cannot, originate at the top among elites, autocrats, oligarchs, those who are massively corrupt and stupid.

CCP China is a cultural and a soft power wasteland. A vast vacuum. it can never be any different or better.

Look at the region and we see Japanese soft power almost everywhere. Japanese soft power is pervasive throughout the region. So is South Korean soft power present and increasing. The Japanese and the South Korean soft power also comes from the people of each democracy where freedom flourishes. It is impossible for soft power or culture to originate with the state. Dictatorship is self defeating.

CCP are born losers and nothing but.

Get yourself out of this CCP Chinese trap Laurence. You're a good guy in many ways. So I suggest you'd be better off accepting the inevitable trends of history. Fighting the obvious and long term trends of history is really unhealthy in many ways. Be accepting.

Hello Publcus.

Yes, you are a good writer, but no mater how good your writing is, well, you're banging the 'wrong' drum.

Your views on Hong Kong are certainly odd, even though you have made a good case ! Okay, Hong Kong's economy is massively linked to China's economy, and Hong Kong benefits enormously from this. The flood of main-land Chinese visitors in Hong Kong, lots of them purchase real estate in Hong Kong, and more and more of them working and living in Hong Kong, this benefits Hong Kong massively. Also, during the colonial era, the biggest reason for Hong Kong's economic prosperity was that it was an import-export gate-way into China. I'm sure you know, Hong Kong acted as a trading post, linking China with the rest of the world, this is what made Hong Kong prosperous.

Hong Kong has always recieved migrant workers from China, and even today, I think the bulk of 'Hong Kongers' have grandparents or parents who were born in main-land China. I do have a smirk on my face when Hong Kong has one of the lowest birth-rates in the world. Hong Kong's population has increased by about 50% in the last four decades. This is certainly not by natural growth (a high birth-rate), it's due to Hong Kong 'importing' workers from main-land China and also by Hong Kong men marrying Chinese women and taking them back to Hong Kong. So, Hong Kong is massively linked to China, and it will continue to be. The link is becoming greater. Yes, you are negative towards the actual Beijing government. The Beijing government might change, it has done so already.

What about Taiwan ? I'm not fully sure, but it's a similar situation to Hong Kong I think. Again, an increasing flood of main-land Chinese tourists, some of them buying real estate in Taiwan. And a lot of Taiwan's manufacturing sector was re-located to China about two or three decades ago. Why have a factory in Taiwan if you can move it to main-land China ? So, Taiwan has also massively benefitted from it's link with China. Oh, and throw in Taiwan men marrying main-land Chinese women !

Yes, Publicus, you dis-like the Beijng government. But China has 1.3 billion Chinese, Hong Kong and Taiwan only have a relatively small number of people, they're Chinese too. Accept the point that Hong Kong and Taiwan will continue to be more and more linked to main-land China. See, they want the Chinese to go there, because it is actually about money (economics).

It's almost like saying, a tiny country is on the edge of the European Union. The EU wants them to join. That country wants to join, they get massive economic benefits, but they are a bit wary. Yes, if you join, you end up being swallowed up by the rest of the EU. China will flood Taiwan and Hong Kong, but Hong Kong and Taiwan can't flood China, they haven't got enough people !!

Thanks for reading.

Yes, Publicus, you dis-like the Beijng government. But China has 1.3 billion Chinese, Hong Kong and Taiwan only have a relatively small number of people, they're Chinese too. Accept the point that Hong Kong and Taiwan will continue to be more and more linked to main-land China. See, they want the Chinese to go there, because it is actually about money (economics).

Well hello there Brit,

It is the classic mainland Chinese error of thinking in terms of raw population numbers. Even some foreign devils can be susceptible to it.

The error is to only consider that the mainland has 1.6 billion people, Taiwan has 25 million. That therefore, as throughout history, the big fish will eat the little fish. It is actually that simple a way of mainland Chinese thinking. Quality does not enter into this equation. Neither does democracy. Neither does free market economics. Taiwan's connections to the USA and Japan are ignored too, much to the standard faulty logic characteristic of the culture and which can be adopted also by others abroad or from abroad.

The January 16 presidential election on Taiwan is fully expected to return to office the independence predicated Democratic Progressive Party. Ms. Tsai Ing-wei is the DPP candidate.

The excellent position of the DPP in the election as indicated all year by reliable and reputable polling (a consistent 30-point lead) was generated by the Sunflower Revolution. Led by young Taiwanese (not Chinese), they seized the parliament building last April and occupied it to stop a big trade deal with the CCP initiated by the pro-Beijing KMT party Prez Ma. Ma's popularity in the polling of recent years is almost identical to the daily low temperatures there this time of year.

One needs to recognise and render credit where credit is due.

Taiwan does not need nor does Taiwan want "one country, two systems." The example of Hong Kong and the "one country two systems" there is strong at this point. CCP is trying fiercely to reduce democracy in HKG to nothing. Hongkongers reject this. So CCP will have to become more forceful in their absolutism that HKG become a one party city, same as any other CCP China city. This absolutism, if the CCP does insist on executing it, can only lead to another Tianamen massacre which will severely condemn the CCP globally and to their great detriment.

Completely ignored in the post is the fact the CCP's economy is not only declining, it is collapsing, crashing.

When the time comes, which is not far away, democracy leaders in Taiwan and in Hong Kong are fully prepared to enter the mainland China to lead in the remaking of the government and society there to a democratic one, to include actual prosperous market economics. Japan and the USA will provide leadership in establishing and developing democracy on the mainland as well. As will Australia and India. As will Chinese in Malaysia, and in Singapore and from elsewhere where Chinese democracy flourishes or where those of Chinese ancestry do flourish in somebody's local brand of democratic society, culture, civilisation.

So it is unmistakable you along with a few other prominent Chinese ancestry posters need to catch up with the world outside of the closed mainland of the CCP Dictators. One must consider and factor political economy, not only economy alone.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

[hansgruber]

America has China by the balls.

If America stopped the flow of imports from China they would be in a massive depression on a scale never seen before.

Let China posture all they like. Its amusing.

[LawrenceChee]

I am sorry , the Taiwanese or Hong Kong don't think they are not Chinese...everyone is Chinese by race.

Chinese is a race not the passport or a political affiliation ....

When I sit down with businessman from the straits and talk abut hotels we don't have any politics to talk about

We are the same ....we don't want level 14 , 8 is a lucky number ....lion dance is a must for the opening, red is a cool colour and nobody better brush a broom on our leg on Chinese New year

When we sit down and talk about families , we don't talk about whether our kids can read traditional or simplified Chinese ....we are more worried that they can only speak English and no more dialects

We eat rice , we like our chopsticks and God forbid if the dim sum Chef in 4 Seasons decide to retire where we would get our har gows

We don't discuss the 7000 or 21000 warheads pointing at each other or arm sales

The Chinese have it in their heads to talk and wear each other down

Destroy each other ....and bombings etc that's a USA rhetoric that probably works better in the Middle East than in Asia

Being Chinese is all about families , our cultures and our food first . Politics is deadly boring and a party pooper

[LawrenceChee]

America has China by the balls.

If America stopped the flow of imports from China they would be in a massive depression on a scale never seen before.

Let China posture all they like. Its amusing.

Will be more amusing for you to explain to your middle and Low income families all of a sudden Costco and Walmart is empty and Barbie dolls during Black Friday sales is now $50 a pop

Go and pay $300 for your Christmas blinkers and when new year is here , I hope you still have an aunt who can make decorations coz the $1 streamers made in China is no longer available in target

Merry Christmas !

[LawrenceChee]

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war logistically or using their inaccurate nukes and bombs without human tragedies or loss

Chinese on both ends of the straits know this too...they are all Chinese holding different political views and passport Colours

No one is going to shoot each other although for political posturing it's necessary to have a "show and dance"

The only ones panicking and running around like a klutz chicken is the USA who is acting like an aunt on menopause trying to "protect " the Philippines and Taiwanese

Nice job there in Iraq by the way and all the Syrians refugees and European countries taking in the migrants are thanking Uncle Sam again for his "international " intellectual in managing foreign affairs

The Chinese have been talking for years and will carry on talking ...unlike the west ...they have been around for a long time ...mostly talking about wars a few violent ones in between

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war

You forget "soft power,' which is the power of culture. A major reason USA is successful is because it also has soft power. Globalised soft power for a long time. It will continue for a long time.

Soft power originates from the society and the people of the society. Which is why as much as the CCP tries to make its own soft power, it has failed miserably and shall continue to fail miserably in establishing any CCP soft power. You see, the CCP Dictators just don't get it. Soft power does not, cannot, originate at the top among elites, autocrats, oligarchs, those who are massively corrupt and stupid.

CCP China is a cultural and a soft power wasteland. A vast vacuum. it can never be any different or better.

Look at the region and we see Japanese soft power almost everywhere. Japanese soft power is pervasive throughout the region. So is South Korean soft power present and increasing. The Japanese and the South Korean soft power also comes from the people of each democracy where freedom flourishes. It is impossible for soft power or culture to originate with the state. Dictatorship is self defeating.

CCP are born losers and nothing but.

Get yourself out of this CCP Chinese trap Laurence. You're a good guy in many ways. So I suggest you'd be better off accepting the inevitable trends of history. Fighting the obvious and long term trends of history is really unhealthy in many ways. Be accepting.

Hello Publcus.

Yes, you are a good writer, but no mater how good your writing is, well, you're banging the 'wrong' drum.

Your views on Hong Kong are certainly odd, even though you have made a good case ! Okay, Hong Kong's economy is massively linked to China's economy, and Hong Kong benefits enormously from this. The flood of main-land Chinese visitors in Hong Kong, lots of them purchase real estate in Hong Kong, and more and more of them working and living in Hong Kong, this benefits Hong Kong massively. Also, during the colonial era, the biggest reason for Hong Kong's economic prosperity was that it was an import-export gate-way into China. I'm sure you know, Hong Kong acted as a trading post, linking China with the rest of the world, this is what made Hong Kong prosperous.

Hong Kong has always recieved migrant workers from China, and even today, I think the bulk of 'Hong Kongers' have grandparents or parents who were born in main-land China. I do have a smirk on my face when Hong Kong has one of the lowest birth-rates in the world. Hong Kong's population has increased by about 50% in the last four decades. This is certainly not by natural growth (a high birth-rate), it's due to Hong Kong 'importing' workers from main-land China and also by Hong Kong men marrying Chinese women and taking them back to Hong Kong. So, Hong Kong is massively linked to China, and it will continue to be. The link is becoming greater. Yes, you are negative towards the actual Beijing government. The Beijing government might change, it has done so already.

What about Taiwan ? I'm not fully sure, but it's a similar situation to Hong Kong I think. Again, an increasing flood of main-land Chinese tourists, some of them buying real estate in Taiwan. And a lot of Taiwan's manufacturing sector was re-located to China about two or three decades ago. Why have a factory in Taiwan if you can move it to main-land China ? So, Taiwan has also massively benefitted from it's link with China. Oh, and throw in Taiwan men marrying main-land Chinese women !

Yes, Publicus, you dis-like the Beijng government. But China has 1.3 billion Chinese, Hong Kong and Taiwan only have a relatively small number of people, they're Chinese too. Accept the point that Hong Kong and Taiwan will continue to be more and more linked to main-land China. See, they want the Chinese to go there, because it is actually about money (economics).

It's almost like saying, a tiny country is on the edge of the European Union. The EU wants them to join. That country wants to join, they get massive economic benefits, but they are a bit wary. Yes, if you join, you end up being swallowed up by the rest of the EU. China will flood Taiwan and Hong Kong, but Hong Kong and Taiwan can't flood China, they haven't got enough people !!

Thanks for reading.

A balanced viewpoint and more representative than the usual anti Chinese rhetorics

Thank god for Monday !

[Publicus]

I am sorry , the Taiwanese or Hong Kong don't think they are not Chinese...everyone is Chinese by race.

Chinese is a race not the passport or a political affiliation ....

When I sit down with businessman from the straits and talk abut hotels we don't have any politics to talk about

We are the same ....we don't want level 14 , 8 is a lucky number ....lion dance is a must for the opening, red is a cool colour and nobody better brush a broom on our leg on Chinese New year

When we sit down and talk about families , we don't talk about whether our kids can read traditional or simplified Chinese ....we are more worried that they can only speak English and no more dialects

We eat rice , we like our chopsticks and God forbid if the dim sum Chef in 4 Seasons decide to retire where we would get our har gows

We don't discuss the 7000 or 21000 warheads pointing at each other or arm sales

The Chinese have it in their heads to talk and wear each other down

Destroy each other ....and bombings etc that's a USA rhetoric that probably works better in the Middle East than in Asia

Being Chinese is all about families , our cultures and our food first . Politics is deadly boring and a party pooper

I am sorry , the Taiwanese or Hong Kong don't think they are not Chinese...everyone is Chinese by race.

Denying the realities occurring in Taiwan and in Hong Kong as well as elsewhere is, well, denial.

Not a good or modern attitude either to talk abut race. Failing to recognise the great risks inherent to thinking in racial terms is a major cultural deficiency and deficit.

Race is divisive but the Chinese still think that way, talk that way, act completely in that way. Race is racial. Common to the history of thinking in racial terms is racism.

Rather, there is only once race. It is the human race. No other races. Thinking otherwise is not only divisive and consciously separates people on a dangerous basis, it is an ancient and extremely negative handmedown to think in terms of race. Not to have learned or adopted the modern attitude that there is one human race is a deliberate and dangerous failure, as we see each and every day.

Didn't the 20th century alone teach the CCP anything. No, it did not. It taught the CCP instead that Nazi Germany was too small a country to conquer the world. A much bigger country can do the job quite effectively according to the CCP doctrines.

Admittedly, the doctrine that all humans originated from one mother in Africa is more than a stretch. However, one can understand the idea of it, the thinking behind it, the purposes of it. While no one needs to take it literally, the notion is commendable and it is indeed preferable to the CCP doctrine the Chinese are unique aboriginals to China only, going back more than 10,000 years (and more, a lot more). And that that makes the Chinese superior. Supreme among humans, societies, nations. Supremacist.

CCP rejects the out of Africa anthropology. It has instead gone into Africa to try to make it CCP Chinese.

Come Laurence...come into the modern world. Leave that ancient and destructive stuff back there where it belongs.

[LawrenceChee]

I am sorry , the Taiwanese or Hong Kong don't think they are not Chinese...everyone is Chinese by race.

Chinese is a race not the passport or a political affiliation ....

When I sit down with businessman from the straits and talk abut hotels we don't have any politics to talk about

We are the same ....we don't want level 14 , 8 is a lucky number ....lion dance is a must for the opening, red is a cool colour and nobody better brush a broom on our leg on Chinese New year

When we sit down and talk about families , we don't talk about whether our kids can read traditional or simplified Chinese ....we are more worried that they can only speak English and no more dialects

We eat rice , we like our chopsticks and God forbid if the dim sum Chef in 4 Seasons decide to retire where we would get our har gows

We don't discuss the 7000 or 21000 warheads pointing at each other or arm sales

The Chinese have it in their heads to talk and wear each other down

Destroy each other ....and bombings etc that's a USA rhetoric that probably works better in the Middle East than in Asia

Being Chinese is all about families , our cultures and our food first . Politics is deadly boring and a party pooper

I am sorry , the Taiwanese or Hong Kong don't think they are not Chinese...everyone is Chinese by race.

Denying the realities occurring in Taiwan and in Hong Kong as well as elsewhere is, well, denial.

Not a good or modern attitude either to talk abut race. Failing to recognise the great risks inherent to thinking in racial terms is a major cultural deficiency and deficit.

Race is divisive but the Chinese still think that way, talk that way, act completely in that way. Race is racial. Common to the history of thinking in racial terms is racism.

Rather, there is only once race. It is the human race. No other races. Thinking otherwise is not only divisive and consciously separates people on a dangerous basis, it is an ancient and extremely negative handmedown to think in terms of race. Not to have learned or adopted the modern attitude that there is one human race is a deliberate and dangerous failure, as we see each and every day.

Didn't the 20th century alone teach the CCP anything. No, it did not. It taught the CCP instead that Nazi Germany was too small a country to conquer the world. A much bigger country can do the job quite effectively according to the CCP doctrines.

Admittedly, the doctrine that all humans originated from one mother in Africa is more than a stretch. However, one can understand the idea of it, the thinking behind it, the purposes of it. While no one needs to take it literally, the notion is commendable and it is indeed preferable to the CCP doctrine the Chinese are unique aboriginals to China only, going back more than 10,000 years (and more, a lot more). And that that makes the Chinese superior. Supreme among humans, societies, nations. Supremacist.

CCP rejects the out of Africa anthropology. It has instead gone into Africa to try to make it CCP Chinese.

Come Laurence...come into the modern world. Leave that ancient and destructive stuff back there where it belongs.

Strange P....everywhere I go , I'm networking and making friends across different Asian countries and they tell me they are Chinese and proud of their heritage like me . We don't think politics as that is not something the average person talk about in Asia

We don't like to discuss politics like we believe we know each other that well ; strangely this connects with the Brits ...weather sports and food are all safe topics ....politics are boring especially when we don't worry daily like the Americans if the world is coming to an end or someone is going to bomb us

Living in cuckoo land or like Michael Jackson thinking everyone is homogenous and the same and one human race is nice advertising but we all have cultures

I think the Chinese have been wildly successful in Africa because they didn't go there trying to influence local cultures religion or language ...they realised Africans will be Africans and not "dark coloured Chinese" the fact that some Africans have turned practical and learnt mandarin to facilitate business and trade is normal ...I just came from a trip in Siem reap and Laos and they will using the American dollars there ...not that they think they are Americans just its practical and easy to deal with with tourists and commercial trade

[LawrenceChee]

I would love to see everyone think in one human race and eat stewed chicken feet like I am doing in Fujian Chiang Mai today ...

Everyone has their own race and cultures and we should never be one race ....it's ridiculous and strangely that's sounds more nazi than anything

People should have common dreams like a safe and clean environment , end to slavery and cheap productions , respect and no racial profiling when it comes to jobs and promotions

Ideals yes I agree to that ; having one single human race is unicorn thinking ...we Asians are too practical to believe that will happen

Edited December 21, 2015 by LawrenceChee

[Publicus]

I am sorry , the Taiwanese or Hong Kong don't think they are not Chinese...everyone is Chinese by race.

Chinese is a race not the passport or a political affiliation ....

When I sit down with businessman from the straits and talk abut hotels we don't have any politics to talk about

We are the same ....we don't want level 14 , 8 is a lucky number ....lion dance is a must for the opening, red is a cool colour and nobody better brush a broom on our leg on Chinese New year

When we sit down and talk about families , we don't talk about whether our kids can read traditional or simplified Chinese ....we are more worried that they can only speak English and no more dialects

We eat rice , we like our chopsticks and God forbid if the dim sum Chef in 4 Seasons decide to retire where we would get our har gows

We don't discuss the 7000 or 21000 warheads pointing at each other or arm sales

The Chinese have it in their heads to talk and wear each other down

Destroy each other ....and bombings etc that's a USA rhetoric that probably works better in the Middle East than in Asia

Being Chinese is all about families , our cultures and our food first . Politics is deadly boring and a party pooper

I am sorry , the Taiwanese or Hong Kong don't think they are not Chinese...everyone is Chinese by race.

Denying the realities occurring in Taiwan and in Hong Kong as well as elsewhere is, well, denial.

Not a good or modern attitude either to talk abut race. Failing to recognise the great risks inherent to thinking in racial terms is a major cultural deficiency and deficit.

Race is divisive but the Chinese still think that way, talk that way, act completely in that way. Race is racial. Common to the history of thinking in racial terms is racism.

Rather, there is only once race. It is the human race. No other races. Thinking otherwise is not only divisive and consciously separates people on a dangerous basis, it is an ancient and extremely negative handmedown to think in terms of race. Not to have learned or adopted the modern attitude that there is one human race is a deliberate and dangerous failure, as we see each and every day.

Didn't the 20th century alone teach the CCP anything. No, it did not. It taught the CCP instead that Nazi Germany was too small a country to conquer the world. A much bigger country can do the job quite effectively according to the CCP doctrines.

Admittedly, the doctrine that all humans originated from one mother in Africa is more than a stretch. However, one can understand the idea of it, the thinking behind it, the purposes of it. While no one needs to take it literally, the notion is commendable and it is indeed preferable to the CCP doctrine the Chinese are unique aboriginals to China only, going back more than 10,000 years (and more, a lot more). And that that makes the Chinese superior. Supreme among humans, societies, nations. Supremacist.

CCP rejects the out of Africa anthropology. It has instead gone into Africa to try to make it CCP Chinese.

Come Laurence...come into the modern world. Leave that ancient and destructive stuff back there where it belongs.

Strange P....everywhere I go , I'm networking and making friends across different Asian countries and they tell me they are Chinese and proud of their heritage like me . We don't think politics as that is not something the average person talk about in Asia

We don't like to discuss politics like we believe we know each other that well ; strangely this connects with the Brits ...weather sports and food are all safe topics ....politics are boring especially when we don't worry daily like the Americans if the world is coming to an end or someone is going to bomb us

Living in cuckoo land or like Michael Jackson thinking everyone is homogenous and the same and one human race is nice advertising but we all have cultures

I think the Chinese have been wildly successful in Africa because they didn't go there trying to influence local cultures religion or language ...they realised Africans will be Africans and not "dark coloured Chinese" the fact that some Africans have turned practical and learnt mandarin to facilitate business and trade is normal ...I just came from a trip in Siem reap and Laos and they will using the American dollars there ...not that they think they are Americans just its practical and easy to deal with with tourists and commercial trade

The reply in no way addresses my post.

It remains inside the ages old box of race.

When I was in the CCP China several years and I made the points stated in my post, every CCP Chinese I said these matters to looked at me like I had just arrived there yesterday from a distant planet.

CCP indoctrination seems to dovetail effectively with the ancient beliefs and attitudes.

[Publicus]

I would love to see everyone think in one human race and eat stewed chicken feet like I am doing in Fujian Chiang Mai today ...

Everyone has their own race and cultures and we should never be one race ....it's ridiculous and strangely that's sounds more nazi than anything

People should have common dreams like a safe and clean environment , end to slavery and cheap productions , respect and no racial profiling when it comes to jobs and promotions

Ideals yes I agree to that ; having one single human race is unicorn thinking ...we Asians are too practical to believe that will happen

Confirmed.

The central and vital points just bounce off.

It's not as if there isn't any comprehension of the points. It's that the opposite side is held, defended, advocated. With determination and pride. Nothing wrong of course with the details of the culture of the food, family, work, general interaction among the like minded and so on. Few people dislike Chinese food, for instance, or festivals. But after that, what is there?

CCP.

The mainland and the attitude of the mainland, ever and decreasingly present in Taiwan and Hong Kong, continue unabated and indeed pursued by the mainland mind, whether on the mainland or away from it. Just never far away from it in beliefs, attitude; the ancient and decrepit values.

There is no intent to offend or to be offensive. Points gained firsthand are simply stated for discourse and, hopefully more than anything else, a general awareness.

[LawrenceChee]

Well if one understand the Chinese so well , you would know fighting on points is not the Chinese style

It's a western concept of debate ...the Chinese are more subtle and we are intellectual enough to know there is no need to bash or call government by some silly names to make a point

It's just not Asian style to do so even if you have personal points against any government style of governance

I understand deeply that while some may critique the style of Chinese bad think it is ancient , the fact that it has been around for so long means there are camps who understand the heritage of it

No empire is ever perfect and if one is keen on chinese culture and history there is lots to appreciate and understand

[Publicus]

The onus is on the person who thinks in terms of race and who accepts that as good, normal, natural, for the reasons (wrongheaded) that it's always been so and because it's always been done.

People and societies that continue to think in terms of race do not allow that other races are equal or inferior to their own race. That is the nature of the race beast.

The point is not whether one is culturally direct or indirect. The matter is that people continue to think of different races among human beings, and that that does not allow for equality among races. Or that one's race could be inferior to other races.

I reiterate to the contrary, i.e., there is but one race on the planet and that that it is the human race. One size does fit all. That does not however negate diversity among peoples in their particular places during their time or history.

People who think in terms of race engage in racialism. We know from history the next step after that. And the consequences of it.

[LawrenceChee]

I believe in free speech and free opinions and that's mine

No one would think I am racist in my dealings with all in business and personal life and I certainly have mutual respect for people

But yes at times when people are obnoxious and insistent, I choose to ignore the flames and also disregard the rhetoric babbling and it is a time waster at times to try to convince

[Andaman Al]

America has China by the balls.

If America stopped the flow of imports from China they would be in a massive depression on a scale never seen before.

Let China posture all they like. Its amusing.

I think if China called in the 1.5 Trillion debt owed to it by America I think you could say that China has America very firmly by the balls!

[Publicus]

CCP and CCP China continue to look at the world and continue to see various races populating it.

It is not a matter of one Chinese in a one party state. Or of one Chinese sipping tea at an upscale hotel while he talks about race.

It's about 1,600,000,000 CCP Chinese in a one party state. In no less than the Middle Kingdom.

Nothing good has ever come out of a one party state. A one party state that sees only races everywhere it looks and goes.

Where there is race there is an arbitrarily assigned hierarchy of races, from first to last. From top to bottom. Subordinate-superordinate. It is the direct opposite of equality or egalitarianism.

Presently revanchist and irredentist.

[tonbridgebrit]

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war logistically or using their inaccurate nukes and bombs without human tragedies or loss

Chinese on both ends of the straits know this too...they are all Chinese holding different political views and passport Colours

No one is going to shoot each other although for political posturing it's necessary to have a "show and dance"

The only ones panicking and running around like a klutz chicken is the USA who is acting like an aunt on menopause trying to "protect " the Philippines and Taiwanese

Nice job there in Iraq by the way and all the Syrians refugees and European countries taking in the migrants are thanking Uncle Sam again for his "international " intellectual in managing foreign affairs

The Chinese have been talking for years and will carry on talking ...unlike the west ...they have been around for a long time ...mostly talking about wars a few violent ones in between

It's a reality that the USA with all of their almighty power know they cannot win this war

You forget "soft power,' which is the power of culture. A major reason USA is successful is because it also has soft power. Globalised soft power for a long time. It will continue for a long time.

Soft power originates from the society and the people of the society. Which is why as much as the CCP tries to make its own soft power, it has failed miserably and shall continue to fail miserably in establishing any CCP soft power. You see, the CCP Dictators just don't get it. Soft power does not, cannot, originate at the top among elites, autocrats, oligarchs, those who are massively corrupt and stupid.

CCP China is a cultural and a soft power wasteland. A vast vacuum. it can never be any different or better.

Look at the region and we see Japanese soft power almost everywhere. Japanese soft power is pervasive throughout the region. So is South Korean soft power present and increasing. The Japanese and the South Korean soft power also comes from the people of each democracy where freedom flourishes. It is impossible for soft power or culture to originate with the state. Dictatorship is self defeating.

CCP are born losers and nothing but.

Get yourself out of this CCP Chinese trap Laurence. You're a good guy in many ways. So I suggest you'd be better off accepting the inevitable trends of history. Fighting the obvious and long term trends of history is really unhealthy in many ways. Be accepting.

Hello Publcus.

Yes, you are a good writer, but no mater how good your writing is, well, you're banging the 'wrong' drum.

Your views on Hong Kong are certainly odd, even though you have made a good case ! Okay, Hong Kong's economy is massively linked to China's economy, and Hong Kong benefits enormously from this. The flood of main-land Chinese visitors in Hong Kong, lots of them purchase real estate in Hong Kong, and more and more of them working and living in Hong Kong, this benefits Hong Kong massively. Also, during the colonial era, the biggest reason for Hong Kong's economic prosperity was that it was an import-export gate-way into China. I'm sure you know, Hong Kong acted as a trading post, linking China with the rest of the world, this is what made Hong Kong prosperous.

Hong Kong has always recieved migrant workers from China, and even today, I think the bulk of 'Hong Kongers' have grandparents or parents who were born in main-land China. I do have a smirk on my face when Hong Kong has one of the lowest birth-rates in the world. Hong Kong's population has increased by about 50% in the last four decades. This is certainly not by natural growth (a high birth-rate), it's due to Hong Kong 'importing' workers from main-land China and also by Hong Kong men marrying Chinese women and taking them back to Hong Kong. So, Hong Kong is massively linked to China, and it will continue to be. The link is becoming greater. Yes, you are negative towards the actual Beijing government. The Beijing government might change, it has done so already.

What about Taiwan ? I'm not fully sure, but it's a similar situation to Hong Kong I think. Again, an increasing flood of main-land Chinese tourists, some of them buying real estate in Taiwan. And a lot of Taiwan's manufacturing sector was re-located to China about two or three decades ago. Why have a factory in Taiwan if you can move it to main-land China ? So, Taiwan has also massively benefitted from it's link with China. Oh, and throw in Taiwan men marrying main-land Chinese women !

Yes, Publicus, you dis-like the Beijng government. But China has 1.3 billion Chinese, Hong Kong and Taiwan only have a relatively small number of people, they're Chinese too. Accept the point that Hong Kong and Taiwan will continue to be more and more linked to main-land China. See, they want the Chinese to go there, because it is actually about money (economics).

It's almost like saying, a tiny country is on the edge of the European Union. The EU wants them to join. That country wants to join, they get massive economic benefits, but they are a bit wary. Yes, if you join, you end up being swallowed up by the rest of the EU. China will flood Taiwan and Hong Kong, but Hong Kong and Taiwan can't flood China, they haven't got enough people !!

Thanks for reading.

Yes, Publicus, you dis-like the Beijng government. But China has 1.3 billion Chinese, Hong Kong and Taiwan only have a relatively small number of people, they're Chinese too. Accept the point that Hong Kong and Taiwan will continue to be more and more linked to main-land China. See, they want the Chinese to go there, because it is actually about money (economics).

Well hello there Brit,

It is the classic mainland Chinese error of thinking in terms of raw population numbers. Even some foreign devils can be susceptible to it.

The error is to only consider that the mainland has 1.6 billion people, Taiwan has 25 million. That therefore, as throughout history, the big fish will eat the little fish. It is actually that simple a way of mainland Chinese thinking. Quality does not enter into this equation. Neither does democracy. Neither does free market economics. Taiwan's connections to the USA and Japan are ignored too, much to the standard faulty logic characteristic of the culture and which can be adopted also by others abroad or from abroad.

The January 16 presidential election on Taiwan is fully expected to return to office the independence predicated Democratic Progressive Party. Ms. Tsai Ing-wei is the DPP candidate.

The excellent position of the DPP in the election as indicated all year by reliable and reputable polling (a consistent 30-point lead) was generated by the Sunflower Revolution. Led by young Taiwanese (not Chinese), they seized the parliament building last April and occupied it to stop a big trade deal with the CCP initiated by the pro-Beijing KMT party Prez Ma. Ma's popularity in the polling of recent years is almost identical to the daily low temperatures there this time of year.

One needs to recognise and render credit where credit is due.

Taiwan does not need nor does Taiwan want "one country, two systems." The example of Hong Kong and the "one country two systems" there is strong at this point. CCP is trying fiercely to reduce democracy in HKG to nothing. Hongkongers reject this. So CCP will have to become more forceful in their absolutism that HKG become a one party city, same as any other CCP China city. This absolutism, if the CCP does insist on executing it, can only lead to another Tianamen massacre which will severely condemn the CCP globally and to their great detriment.

Completely ignored in the post is the fact the CCP's economy is not only declining, it is collapsing, crashing.

When the time comes, which is not far away, democracy leaders in Taiwan and in Hong Kong are fully prepared to enter the mainland China to lead in the remaking of the government and society there to a democratic one, to include actual prosperous market economics. Japan and the USA will provide leadership in establishing and developing democracy on the mainland as well. As will Australia and India. As will Chinese in Malaysia, and in Singapore and from elsewhere where Chinese democracy flourishes or where those of Chinese ancestry do flourish in somebody's local brand of democratic society, culture, civilisation.

So it is unmistakable you along with a few other prominent Chinese ancestry posters need to catch up with the world outside of the closed mainland of the CCP Dictators. One must consider and factor political economy, not only economy alone.

Publicus, you're a good writer, but still, you look silly banging the drum that you are banging !

"The error is to only consider that the mainland has 1.6 billion people, Taiwan has 25 million. That therefore, as throughout history, the big fish will eat the little fish. It is actually that simple a way of mainland Chinese thinking. Quality does not enter into this equation. Neither does democracy. Neither does free market economics. Taiwan's connections to the USA and Japan are ignored too, much to the standard faulty logic characteristic of the culture and which can be adopted also by others abroad or from abroad."

The mainland's vast population means that Taiwan might be able to receive a far bigger flood of tourists in the future. Taiwan is hoping to tap into this vast potential, regardless of who is in charge of Taiwan. Yes, some people in Taiwan don't like the Beijing government, but the bulk of people in Taiwan want more and more economic prosperity. And Taiwan men are not exactly going to Japan or America to marry a lady. They are going to China, this is because Chinese men want Chinese wives, hence, Taiwan men are going to main-land China !

Taiwan does have strong links with Japan and the USA, but it's economic links with China are growing constantly. China is pumping far more money into Taiwan than America and Japan combined. And lots of people in Taiwan are far more driven by money than by poltical links to America and Japan. Basically, Taiwan is stuck in a dilema, some of them don't like the Beijing government, but most of them love the economic benefits of being flooded by Chinese tourists and Chinese money for real estate.

Regarding Hong Kong. They do regard themselves as Chinese. Yes, people in Hong Kong ARE slightly 'racist' ! Hong Kong has a very low birth-rate, and it is importing a load of mainland workers to solve it's own labour shortages. However, Hong Kong is NOT importing workers from places like Bangladesh and Sudan, why ? Simple, because they are 'racist', they would rather bring in Chinese from mainland China. You've got to bear in mind that most people in Hong Kong are such that, their parents or grand-parents were born in mainland China. And you notice how Hong Kong men go to China to get a girlfriend/wife, and how they don't go to places like Indonesia/Bangladesh/Sudan. I'm not going to criticise Hong Kong people for being racist. If I did, I would have to criticise a whole load of other people, as in Thais and Japanese.

[Publicus]

America has China by the balls.

If America stopped the flow of imports from China they would be in a massive depression on a scale never seen before.

Let China posture all they like. Its amusing.

I think if China called in the 1.5 Trillion debt owed to it by America I think you could say that China has America very firmly by the balls!

Another solid rock asteroid hits earth head first.

The ridiculous myth has been shot down repeatedly over an appreciable period of time.

CCP in recent months sold off $400 billion of US T-Bills and other 'holdings'. They sold 'em because they desperately need the USDs cash. Which, ironically, makes 'em need more USDs cash. It's called the vicious circle.

Rates on T-Bills continued to tick just above or below their regular 2%.

There are always buyers of CCP forex on their books, from US treasuries to other US corporate bonds the Boyz had bought.

Those CCP fanboyz who think the United States would place its economy and national security into the hands of an evil foreign government have more balls than brains.