SURVEY: Britain exiting the EU, do you support it or not?

[NoshowJones]

People wanting to exit are living in the past.

And not everything was better then, and the glory days of the HK are gone, never to return.

They're much, much better of in the EU and also the EU is much better of with GB in.

Yes share the pain for others stupidity great idea.

I wonder what HK has to do with the UK, is it Hong Kong? no, it surely can't be, it is a typo, right?

Edited December 21, 2015 by possum1931

[Ace of Pop]

What surprises me is who chose normal folk like Naam , TA , Ron and Upyerjumper etc. . over the usual babbling nutters.[emoji56]

[Ace of Pop]

Wrong post ,but isn't H.K. Someplace Brits turned into a winner , from a Swamp then the Reds wanted it back.Shame the Dutch are not so Honest in Africa

[roo860]

What a great thread.

Agreed, it is a great thread.

I'm a Yank and I am just sitting back reading the Brits and Continentals go at it.

I personally don't give a tinker's dam what the UK does, but if it starts another world war, don't expect any assistance from across the pond...for either side.

We'd be keeping out of the way of your 'friendly fire'!!!!

[roo860]

some countries who have joined the eu have nothing to offer, and yet still allowed to join, its is the richer countries bailing out the ones who only joined to come to the uk now there are no borders and the uk governement gives them money for jack shit.as to Turkey this countries economy is based solely on manufacturing counterfeit goods.

And Turkish Delight chocolate

[Ace of Pop]

. He's pro EU say no more

[Toscano]

In the 1975 British referendum on whether Britain should remain in or leave the EU , I voted to leave . I was very opposed to the Maastricht Treaty , Britain should have held a referendum then .

John Major had the utmost difficulty getting the bill passed by parliament , his doing so by the smallest margin was the undoing of the conservative party that lost its support in the country .

Britain should never have joined the EU and might not have joined the EEC but for the possibility of Free trade so close at hand , rather than shipping produce half way round the world .

The EU has become a monster , new laws and restrictions to tie all Europeans up in knots . The current crisis of illegal migrants from the middle east , Asia and Africa is as great a disaster as WWII . I find it strange that figures seem finely balanced in the polls ; I'm sure there are many more people who would like Britain to leave the EU . I have only ever met a few people who thought Britain should remain in the EU . The EU might have been a success for the original 6 member states , but not for 28 all with different cultures , customs , lifestyles , economies and languages that are not going to blend well . A large multi national state like the USSR or the EUSSR is difficult to manage . The economy seems to be failing , countries like Hungary , Slovakia , Czechs and Poland are beginning to openly defy the authority of the commission . The migrant crisis is far from over , nothing is being done to stop them overwhelming and destroying the Europe we have known and Loved . Britain needs to cut loose from the mayhem that will envelop the EU completely .

[MAJIC]

Nobody was consulted on whether they wanted a United States of Europe and I hope that the UK can show the way for the rest of Europe and leave.

Some of us believed Enoch and voted on the federal concept. I feel sorry for those who believed Hattersley, that it was just a common market - in goods, labour and capital. Note, however, that whoever we believed, a yes vote accepted the loss of the ability to exclude well-behaved fellow Europeans.

It wasnt Hattersley it was Edward Heath who lied!

[Richard W]

We need to close the borders and stop the unlimited number of illegal immigrants from entering, the vast majority of whom are economic immigrants looking for an easy life at the expense of the British taxpayers. Plus we can then deport foreign criminals and terrorists with no interference from Brussels.

Please indicate how the EU helps illegal immigrants enter the UK. The UK and the republic of Ireland police their external border, which includes links with the rest of the EU. The problems with deportation stem largely result from the European Convention of Human Rights, which Britain has a large part in drawing up.

Its time for the British people to vote for what that '' common market '' has become. a clutter of non like minded countries controlled by a megalomaniac female that must be a descendant of Hitler

There should be a referendum question about leaving the EU but staying in the EEA. The Swiss/Norwegian model is looking more and more sensible.

I agree that their should be a 3-way choice. The Liechtensteinian and new Swiss models look interesting. They have basically rejected free movement of labour, though the rejections are not compatible in the long term with their treaty obligations. The Swiss government hasn't worked out what to do - the rejection was forced on the government by referendum.

Steve187, note that if Angela Merkel has the same attitudes as Hitler, you wouldn't be complaining.

1. Is a return of the Sovereignty of their Parliament - where they can fire the MPs in the next Election.

One cannot fire the EU Commission because it is 100% not elected.

The EU Commission styles itself as "The Government of Governments".

2. Though the Cameron Government have been found to be cheating on the numbers of Immigrants - the new figures based on the number of new National Insurances issued say that the figure for the Incoming Immigrants is close to 1 million. Not the albeit disgraceful 630,000 claimed by the Government.

European parliament can fire the EU commission, largely as the House of Commons informally fires governments. The last dismissal of the commission occurred in 1999, whereas the House of Commons hasn't fired a government since 1979.

The calculation of immigration figures is inherently unreliable. They are calculating by asking a sample of arrivals how long they intend to stay in the UK. The number of emigrants is similarly unreliable. If they answer is a year or more, they are counted as immigrants / emigrants. However, some people can legally change their plans, most notably British and EU citizens, but also students. I've no idea how clandestine immigrants are counted when they become legal - the year they entered is usually ancient history.

[Richard W]

Nobody was consulted on whether they wanted a United States of Europe and I hope that the UK can show the way for the rest of Europe and leave.

Some of us believed Enoch and voted on the federal concept. I feel sorry for those who believed Hattersley, that it was just a common market - in goods, labour and capital. Note, however, that whoever we believed, a yes vote accepted the loss of the ability to exclude well-behaved fellow Europeans.

It wasnt Hattersley it was Edward Heath who lied!

I was thinking of the public debates at the time of the referendum.

[MAJIC]

Nobody was consulted on whether they wanted a United States of Europe and I hope that the UK can show the way for the rest of Europe and leave.

Some of us believed Enoch and voted on the federal concept. I feel sorry for those who believed Hattersley, that it was just a common market - in goods, labour and capital. Note, however, that whoever we believed, a yes vote accepted the loss of the ability to exclude well-behaved fellow Europeans.

It wasnt Hattersley it was Edward Heath who lied!

I was thinking of the public debates at the time of the referendum.

Heath led us into the "Common Market" as it was called,there's plenty of information on the net,and easy to find out Heaths part in the big lie!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255506/Monumental-deceit-How-politicians-lied-lied-true-purpose-European-behemoth.html

There's plenty more where this link came from!

Edited December 21, 2015 by MAJIC

[Saradoc1972]

We need to close the borders and stop the unlimited number of illegal immigrants from entering, the vast majority of whom are economic immigrants looking for an easy life at the expense of the British taxpayers. Plus we can then deport foreign criminals and terrorists with no interference from Brussels.

Please indicate how the EU helps illegal immigrants enter the UK. The UK and the republic of Ireland police their external border, which includes links with the rest of the EU. The problems with deportation stem largely result from the European Convention of Human Rights, which Britain has a large part in drawing up.

Its time for the British people to vote for what that '' common market '' has become. a clutter of non like minded countries controlled by a megalomaniac female that must be a descendant of Hitler

There should be a referendum question about leaving the EU but staying in the EEA. The Swiss/Norwegian model is looking more and more sensible.

I agree that their should be a 3-way choice. The Liechtensteinian and new Swiss models look interesting. They have basically rejected free movement of labour, though the rejections are not compatible in the long term with their treaty obligations. The Swiss government hasn't worked out what to do - the rejection was forced on the government by referendum.

Steve187, note that if Angela Merkel has the same attitudes as Hitler, you wouldn't be complaining.

I suppose if I were to look at the problem from a Briton's point of view I'd have to say the EU is helping illegal immigration Britain in that there is the Schengen system

- doomed to failure for lack of protection of external borders - so anyone interested can more or less make it to Calais on public transport and possibly onward from there.

In the long run, a good portion of the 1 million "refugees" in Germany could be naturalized in some 6 years and would then enjoy the EU liberty of free movement. Technically

they would not be "illegal" by then.

What you write on the European Convention is right, but that is actually more or less down to political will on the UK side. They got themselves an exception clause by which they

can disregard ECHR rulings based on necessities of public safety. Regularly did so with IRA cases. France has had a "deport now, complain later" system in force, mostly for their

Arab darling-boys for years - which flies in the face of the ECHR rulings on family life, for example - the UK has only adopted that scheme this year. However, there also is the

European Convention on Human Rights, which all EU-members have to adopt; can't disregard ECJ rulings. Cameron has claimed both those European Charters had entered into

"a toxic relationship" impeding Britain to get rid of "people who don't belong here and have no place in our community".

I suppose that is one of the things that must be seen to if the EU is to survive, not just with a view to the UK.

The Swiss/Norwegian model has one big flaw: they have to accept EU regulations and have no say at all in their making. Could opt out of certain things, but there will be too much

pressure from a big EU to do so in most cases. As with curbing immigration and free movement of EU citizens.

In Germany we got a saying: "Whoever is the first to mention Hitler looses". Hitler comparisons are useless in any discussion.

[worgeordie]

Out, I don't care if the bananas or cucumbers are not straight.

regards worgeordie

[NeverSure]

-snip-

Will Mercedes or BMW or even Volkswagen not wish to sell cars to the UK - their biggest single market? Will the French car industry, perfume industry and wine industry stop selling to the UK?

This is the second time someone has made this comment. If the UK was a big enough market for German cars, the cars would be manufactured in the UK if for no other reason than to protect the companies from currency value swings. "Manufacture in the currency you sell in." This is the prime reason manufacturers open plants around the world.

The UK should now ask itself why every major German and Japanese car manufacturer manufactures its cars in the US for the US market. 17 brands are manufactured in the US.

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze.

The BIG question as to viabilities of economies is: "Where is the UK auto manufacturing wealth creator along with its TV sets, computers, and so on that the UK has developed to manufacture and export"?

If you want to measure the strength of an economy you have to ask what that economy does to create new wealth, usually in manufacturing its own products or inventions.

Where are they?

[theoldgit]

Post altering members nick to flame removed.

[pitrevie]

In the 1975 British referendum on whether Britain should remain in or leave the EU , I voted to leave . I was very opposed to the Maastricht Treaty , Britain should have held a referendum then .

John Major had the utmost difficulty getting the bill passed by parliament , his doing so by the smallest margin was the undoing of the conservative party that lost its support in the country .

Britain should never have joined the EU and might not have joined the EEC but for the possibility of Free trade so close at hand , rather than shipping produce half way round the world .

The EU has become a monster , new laws and restrictions to tie all Europeans up in knots . The current crisis of illegal migrants from the middle east , Asia and Africa is as great a disaster as WWII . I find it strange that figures seem finely balanced in the polls ; I'm sure there are many more people who would like Britain to leave the EU . I have only ever met a few people who thought Britain should remain in the EU . The EU might have been a success for the original 6 member states , but not for 28 all with different cultures , customs , lifestyles , economies and languages that are not going to blend well . A large multi national state like the USSR or the EUSSR is difficult to manage . The economy seems to be failing , countries like Hungary , Slovakia , Czechs and Poland are beginning to openly defy the authority of the commission . The migrant crisis is far from over , nothing is being done to stop them overwhelming and destroying the Europe we have known and Loved . Britain needs to cut loose from the mayhem that will envelop the EU completely .

What puzzled me was that when Margaret Thatcher was in charge and signed up to the Single European Act the biggest single change to that treaty there has ever been there was very little opposition and certainly no calls for a referendum, In fact the measure was rammed through parliament often using the guillotine motion to curtail any discussion. Yet as soon as Thatcher was out of office along with her lapdog Tebbit who had voted for the SEA, she and many others were suddenly opposed to every change that came along. Where was the referendum then, now we get calls for a referendum if a comma is changed somewhere as if anyone has ever read any of these documents.

[englishoak]

-snip-

Will Mercedes or BMW or even Volkswagen not wish to sell cars to the UK - their biggest single market? Will the French car industry, perfume industry and wine industry stop selling to the UK?

This is the second time someone has made this comment. If the UK was a big enough market for German cars, the cars would be manufactured in the UK if for no other reason than to protect the companies from currency value swings. "Manufacture in the currency you sell in." This is the prime reason manufacturers open plants around the world.

The UK should now ask itself why every major German and Japanese car manufacturer manufactures its cars in the US for the US market. 17 brands are manufactured in the US.

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze.

The BIG question as to viabilities of economies is: "Where is the UK auto manufacturing wealth creator along with its TV sets, computers, and so on that the UK has developed to manufacture and export"?

If you want to measure the strength of an economy you have to ask what that economy does to create new wealth, usually in manufacturing its own products or inventions.

Where are they?

Really ? I mean really ?

Your really going to play stupid ?

There will be no reductions in trade either way because the market will demand otherwise,the fear mongering its all BS.

To measure the strength of an economy one first needs to measure how much has been printed out of nothing to create the illusion of grandeur.

You should pipe down with such fine examples of a flat economy such as Japan despite printing trillions and the short to be lived boom created in the US only happening out of even more created out of nothing Trillions, soon to be lots more.

Oh and the new helicopter drop the Euro has already announced its doing in the new year, no doubt GB will add in even more at some point next recession....

The point here is you are skating on shattered ice m8 to talk about the measure of any of the economies mentioned, its all a load of BS propped up by pumped in trillions... but you know this...

Oh an far as Europe is concerned they just went total right wing heaven if they ever get in by voting to have this new gestapo unit who can cross all borders even if told not to by a nation member....

That right there is over a big fat line and very dangerous territory .... wake up europe your slipping into that trap the nazis pulled on its people..

The UK does not belong to this mindset or ideology, Time to ship on out ASAP before its too late.

[watso63]

-snip-

Will Mercedes or BMW or even Volkswagen not wish to sell cars to the UK - their biggest single market? Will the French car industry, perfume industry and wine industry stop selling to the UK?

This is the second time someone has made this comment. If the UK was a big enough market for German cars, the cars would be manufactured in the UK if for no other reason than to protect the companies from currency value swings. "Manufacture in the currency you sell in." This is the prime reason manufacturers open plants around the world.

The UK should now ask itself why every major German and Japanese car manufacturer manufactures its cars in the US for the US market. 17 brands are manufactured in the US.

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze.

The BIG question as to viabilities of economies is: "Where is the UK auto manufacturing wealth creator along with its TV sets, computers, and so on that the UK has developed to manufacture and export"?

If you want to measure the strength of an economy you have to ask what that economy does to create new wealth, usually in manufacturing its own products or inventions.

Where are they?

Really ? I mean really ?

Your really going to play stupid ?

There will be no reductions in trade either way because the market will demand otherwise,the fear mongering its all BS.

To measure the strength of an economy one first needs to measure how much has been printed out of nothing to create the illusion of grandeur.

You should pipe down with such fine examples of a flat economy such as Japan despite printing trillions and the short to be lived boom created in the US only happening out of even more created out of nothing Trillions, soon to be lots more.

Oh and the new helicopter drop the Euro has already announced its doing in the new year, no doubt GB will add in even more at some point next recession....

The point here is you are skating on shattered ice m8 to talk about the measure of any of the economies mentioned, its all a load of BS propped up by pumped in trillions... but you know this...

Oh an far as Europe is concerned they just went total right wing heaven if they ever get in by voting to have this new gestapo unit who can cross all borders even if told not to by a nation member....

That right there is over a big fat line and very dangerous territory .... wake up europe your slipping into that trap the nazis pulled on its people..

The UK does not belong to this mindset or ideology, Time to ship on out ASAP before its too late.

Not a bad rebuttle but the traps are always laid by the people that fooled the Nazis too.

[brewsterbudgen]

Once the economic ramifications of leaving are made clear (and rest assured the IN campaign and its friendly media like the BBC will make sure they are) I predict there will be a majority for staying in.

[yogi100]

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze

Just walk along any street in the UK and see how many VWs, Mercs, BMW and Audis you see. I think that Germany would do more than 'sneeze' if they lost the UK market.

The quote system is not working at present with my slow internet connection.

[yogi100]

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze

Just walk along any street in the UK and see how many VWs, Mercs, BMW and Audis you see. I think that Germany would do more than 'sneeze' if they lost the UK market.

The quote system is not working at present with my slow internet connection.

[nontabury]

Once the economic ramifications of leaving are made clear (and rest assured the IN campaign and its friendly media like the BBC will make sure they are) I predict there will be a majority for staying in.

I would't call it economic ramifications, more like misleading information to downright lies.

The EU is financing a stay in vote with UK tax payers money, by

Financing the BBC and pouring money into the Universities with the sole intention of Brain washing the students. Now we are also told Cameron will circulate to each household ( again at tax payers expense) a propaganda leaflet extolling the so called advantages of remaining in, all with the intention of conning the electorate, same as in 1975.

So yes you are probably right in expecting the British electorate to fall into this trap and commit national suicide. Let's hope that we are wrong!

[NeverSure]

-snip-

Will Mercedes or BMW or even Volkswagen not wish to sell cars to the UK - their biggest single market? Will the French car industry, perfume industry and wine industry stop selling to the UK?

This is the second time someone has made this comment. If the UK was a big enough market for German cars, the cars would be manufactured in the UK if for no other reason than to protect the companies from currency value swings. "Manufacture in the currency you sell in." This is the prime reason manufacturers open plants around the world.

The UK should now ask itself why every major German and Japanese car manufacturer manufactures its cars in the US for the US market. 17 brands are manufactured in the US.

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze.

The BIG question as to viabilities of economies is: "Where is the UK auto manufacturing wealth creator along with its TV sets, computers, and so on that the UK has developed to manufacture and export"?

If you want to measure the strength of an economy you have to ask what that economy does to create new wealth, usually in manufacturing its own products or inventions.

Where are they?

Really ? I mean really ?

Your really going to play stupid ?

There will be no reductions in trade either way because the market will demand otherwise,the fear mongering its all BS.

To measure the strength of an economy one first needs to measure how much has been printed out of nothing to create the illusion of grandeur.

You should pipe down with such fine examples of a flat economy such as Japan despite printing trillions and the short to be lived boom created in the US only happening out of even more created out of nothing Trillions, soon to be lots more.

Oh and the new helicopter drop the Euro has already announced its doing in the new year, no doubt GB will add in even more at some point next recession....

The point here is you are skating on shattered ice m8 to talk about the measure of any of the economies mentioned, its all a load of BS propped up by pumped in trillions... but you know this...

Oh an far as Europe is concerned they just went total right wing heaven if they ever get in by voting to have this new gestapo unit who can cross all borders even if told not to by a nation member....

That right there is over a big fat line and very dangerous territory .... wake up europe your slipping into that trap the nazis pulled on its people..

The UK does not belong to this mindset or ideology, Time to ship on out ASAP before its too late.

You are so badly mistaken. Where do you get this stuff? You said:

"To measure the strength of an economy one first needs to measure how much has been printed out of nothing to create the illusion of grandeur.

You should pipe down with such fine examples of a flat economy such as Japan despite printing trillions and the short to be lived boom created in the US only happening out of even more created out of nothing Trillions, soon to be lots more."

This is hogwash. "The US and "created out of nothing trillions, soon to be lots more."

The US can't create money out of nothing. It can't just "print money." It is violation of US law. When the US has a deficit it has to borrow the money which is what causes the national debt. If the US could just print money or create it out of nothing, there would be no need for a national debt.

Get it?

However, FYI, the EU can just print money out of nothing and that's where a great danger lies.

You do know that the UK's debt is fast approaching that of the US as a percentage of GDP? Yet the UK doesn't have the economic engine to support it. It doesn't have the vast farm and timber land and minerals and other natural resources. It doesn't have the inventions or the manufacturing. It doesn't have the 88,000 miles of saltwater shoreline that the US has. It doesn't have much of anything other than burgeoning debt and a failing NHS and Muslim no-go zones.

Cheers.

[kingdratsab]

Hi,......OUT is my vote.....and in addition for what its worth....Scotland give independence like it or not....N I give back to who it rightly belongs, Eire...Wales give the option independence or become a province of England and live by English governance. As for immigrants live by English rules or leave. And my final gripe ...give the so called royal family to Scotland or Germany whoever will take em on.

PLEASE!!

[55Jay]

The tone of some of these OUT comments sound vaguely familiar.

[brewsterbudgen]

The tone of some of these OUT comments sound vaguely familiar.

85cbc298bcd9db84f633ce7f62880b7e.jpg

Yup. There's definitely a connection. Bigotry and nationalism know no boundaries!

[MartinL]

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze

Just walk along any street in the UK and see how many VWs, Mercs, BMW and Audis you see. I think that Germany would do more than 'sneeze' if they lost the UK market.

GERMAN new vehicle sales figures by country:-

UNITED KINGDOM - 2014

Ref. http://www.best-selling-cars.com/britain-uk/2014-full-year-britain-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

Based on figures released by the British Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders (SMMT)

Audi -- 158,987

BMW -- 148,878

Mercedes Benz -- 124,419

Volkswagen -- 214,828

TOTAL -- 647,112

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - 2014

Ref. http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html#autosalesE

Audi -- 162,773

BMW -- 298,212

Mercedes Benz -- 318,838

Volkswagen -- 332,912

TOTAL -- 1,112,735 (72% more than UK for a population 5x as big)

THAILAND - 2014

Ref. http://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig_thailand_2014

Audi -- no figures

BMW -- 8,386

Mercedes Benz -- 11,524

Volkswagen -- 476

TOTAL -- 20,386

This is the second time someone has made this comment. If the UK was a big enough market for German cars, the cars would be manufactured in the UK .... This is the prime reason manufacturers open plants around the world.

Looking at UK v USA sales figures above, do you still say that the UK is an insignificant market for German car manufacturers?

I'd say that, for a country with 5x UK population, German car sales in USA are quite weak.

BMW, at least & maybe others, have a manufacturing plant in Thailand. Does that imply that Thailand is a significant market for them?

BMWs manufactured in Germany can be shipped to UK very easily, not so with USA & Thailand. It therefore makes little sense to open a separate UK plant, especially as there are no tariff barriers Germany >> UK.

[nontabury]

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze

Just walk along any street in the UK and see how many VWs, Mercs, BMW and Audis you see. I think that Germany would do more than 'sneeze' if they lost the UK market.

GERMAN new vehicle sales figures by country:-

UNITED KINGDOM - 2014

Ref. http://www.best-selling-cars.com/britain-uk/2014-full-year-britain-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

Based on figures released by the British Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders (SMMT)

Audi -- 158,987

BMW -- 148,878

Mercedes Benz -- 124,419

Volkswagen -- 214,828

TOTAL -- 647,112

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - 2014

Ref. http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html#autosalesE

Audi -- 162,773

BMW -- 298,212

Mercedes Benz -- 318,838

Volkswagen -- 332,912

TOTAL -- 1,112,735 (72% more than UK for a population 5x as big)

THAILAND - 2014

Ref. http://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig_thailand_2014

Audi -- no figures

BMW -- 8,386

Mercedes Benz -- 11,524

Volkswagen -- 476

TOTAL -- 20,386

This is the second time someone has made this comment. If the UK was a big enough market for German cars, the cars would be manufactured in the UK .... This is the prime reason manufacturers open plants around the world.

Looking at UK v USA sales figures above, do you still say that the UK is an insignificant market for German car manufacturers?

I'd say that, for a country with 5x UK population, German car sales in USA are quite weak.

BMW, at least & maybe others, have a manufacturing plant in Thailand. Does that imply that Thailand is a significant market for them?

BMWs manufactured in Germany can be shipped to UK very easily, not so with USA & Thailand. It therefore makes little sense to open a separate UK plant, especially as there are no tariff barriers Germany >> UK.

Exactly, and that is why all this talk of the EU creating trade barriers against an opt out UK is just bull shit,especially so when you extend it to ALL trade between the EU and the U.K., which now runs to 61.6 billion to the Benefit of the EU.

[Grouse]

It amuses me that so many seem to think the decision is obvious.

It isn't.

Sadly the case for the EU is not being made strongly enough

The case against is being made in typical shrill fashion by appealing to the base instincts of the poorly informed.

The U.K. Is not part of the Euro zone and not part of Schengen. We also opted out of the social chapters that would have provided much better benefits including great pensions. We have already read that the UK now has American levels of inequality. Shameful.

I have benefitted from having lived in Denmark and in Germany. My sister retired to northern Spain. So I do know something of the conditions in these countries.

Being in Europe does not stop us building business with the BRICS and other developing countries.

Being in the EU brings great inward investment from countries who look on the UK as a door into Europe. The USA, Japan and Australia have all said as much.

If you want to understand the economic case, read the Economist or the FT( or I will spell it out in boring detail)

Sure, the EU is far from perfect - lack of democracy being a key issue for me

Overall, spare us the "shoot from the hip" comments and read up on this important topic.

Me? 80/20 in favour of staying in and fixing the issues from within.

I'm a social democrat at heart and much prefer European principles to American ones....

I think you are very mistaken,as more and more Brits become informed as to the advantages of exiting this corrupt and undemocratic organisation, the more people will want out.Unfortunately I foresee in the next few months a concerted effort by those in power, supported by many in the media to misinform the electorate as to the many advantages of leaving. My question to you, is why are some Brits prepared to accept the argument that we cannot go it alone and prosper, do some elements in the electorate lack the confidence in our own ability.

Undemocratic? Yes. Corrupt? Nah, not really compared with many others.

I think we can have our cake and eat it. We gain huge benefits and if you don't understand ask

Nothing to stop us building new business with developing countries.

But it's not just about business. For me, it's also about civilisation.

Do you spend much time on the continent? Go on, try it!

[Ace of Pop]

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze

Just walk along any street in the UK and see how many VWs, Mercs, BMW and Audis you see. I think that Germany would do more than 'sneeze' if they lost the UK market.

GERMAN new vehicle sales figures by country:-

UNITED KINGDOM - 2014

Ref. http://www.best-selling-cars.com/britain-uk/2014-full-year-britain-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

Based on figures released by the British Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders (SMMT)

Audi -- 158,987

BMW -- 148,878

Mercedes Benz -- 124,419

Volkswagen -- 214,828

TOTAL -- 647,112

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - 2014

Ref. http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html#autosalesE

Audi -- 162,773

BMW -- 298,212

Mercedes Benz -- 318,838

Volkswagen -- 332,912

TOTAL -- 1,112,735 (72% more than UK for a population 5x as big)

THAILAND - 2014

Ref. http://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig_thailand_2014

Audi -- no figures

BMW -- 8,386

Mercedes Benz -- 11,524

Volkswagen -- 476

TOTAL -- 20,386

This is the second time someone has made this comment. If the UK was a big enough market for German cars, the cars would be manufactured in the UK .... This is the prime reason manufacturers open plants around the world.

Looking at UK v USA sales figures above, do you still say that the UK is an insignificant market for German car manufacturers?

I'd say that, for a country with 5x UK population, German car sales in USA are quite weak.

BMW, at least & maybe others, have a manufacturing plant in Thailand. Does that imply that Thailand is a significant market for them?

BMWs manufactured in Germany can be shipped to UK very easily, not so with USA & Thailand. It therefore makes little sense to open a separate UK plant, especially as there are no tariff barriers Germany >> UK.

. BMW have a Factory in the US wake up