Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[iReason]

“Police handling the Koh Tao murders case have again stood up the National Human Rights Commission, which has repeatedly invited investigators to its headquarters to clear up allegations they tortured two Myanmar suspects to confess.”

“The NHRC would begin debating whether it should file a complaint against forensic police, Police Region 8 and the Metropolitan Police Bureau after the three departments failed to show up for the fourth time.”

http://www.nhrc.or.th/2012/wb/en/news_detail.php?nid=3376&parent_id=1&type=new

Edited January 2, 2016 by iReason

[TheLobster]

More likely it suggests that no autopsy has been released by the UK.....

You can't release an autopsy, maybe you meant autopsy report?

Oh bugger! did I omit report - but luckily being so intelligent you understood.

It was released, all 400 pages along with photos. Copies given to judge and prosecution. However it was up to the judges discretion whether they took it into account, it appears they did not.

The UK report confirmed no bite marks, no signs of rape. I'm also presuming it did not confirm the tear wound in the victims private parts, which the prosecution witness said was there.

When releasing the report the UK coroner said that this was for natural justice/the rights of the accused.

Thanks for posting that HUH, once again members can see my posts are being deleted without notification on the forum by an over zealous individual. I have made a complaint previously about this but it seems to have been ignored despite the fact that I live locally and have an interest in what happens in the region.

BTW I'm as qualified as anyone posting on the forums regarding DNA analysis but fail to see that it is important as it is the sampling and identification that seems to be the issue rather than analysis, wouldn't you agree?

[iReason]

“Pol Gen Somyot, however, made clear that the DNA test on the son would have no impact on the police case file which has been finished with all circumstantial and forensic evidence submitted to the prosecutor for indictment of the two Myanmar suspects.”

“He said he has designated the computer crime suppression police to investigate and bring the poster to trial as the post has hurt tourism and economy.”

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/national-police-chief-warns-distorted-information-koh-tao-murder

[iReason]

“The United Kingdom decided to dispatch their own police to Thailand after a number of UK and Burmese officials expressed concern over Thai police’s inquiry into the murder of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23”

“The Thai authorities previously stalled in responding to the UK's request to observe the murder inquiry, but junta leader Prayuth Chan-ocha is said to have acquiesced after UK Prime Minister David Cameron personally pressed him”

“However, he said that police still have not fully completed the file, despite a statement by police last week to the contrary.”

“Police failed to secure the crime scene in the wake of the murder, and have also provided a series of unsubstantiated and contradicting statements to the press.”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1413790292

[smedly]

DNA Failings

1. It consists of a one page table replete with hand written amendments, date changes and data alterations. This document would NOT be admissible in any court in the UK, Australia, USA, EU, Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapore.

2. It is NOT supported by any case notes, chain-of-custody records, nor statistics based on validated population data bases. The omission of that information is a COMPLETE abrogation of international ISO 17025 standards and would lead to a FULL audit of the police laboratory by an international accreditation agency!

3. The table has been used to match DNA components, which is an extreme oversimplification of the entire DNA process! It relies on single alleles rather than genotypes. (An allele is ONE of a pair of genes that appear in ONE part of a chromosome that help to determine heredity traits.)

4. Because there is NO statistical analysis to determine the probability of the stated frequencies in the table, it is absolutely NOT possible to determine the likelihood of the accused as being the contributors to the mixture! There, in fact, could be a VERY large number of other individuals who could NOT be ruled out as contributors!

5. It is, therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability!

For these reasons, it CANNOT be said (from any kind of scientific or legal standpoint) that there was a match between the DNA from the semen the police alleged to have and the DNA that was (forcibly, without consent or legal representation) retrieved from the two accused! Basing the conviction on COMPLETELY flawed DNA evidence has resulted in an EXTREME miscarriage of justice!

and I will slip this in ........................original samples a fundamental error that they can not be made available to a competent lab for retest

Thx T

[smedly]

I think you have to realise that when dealing with these judges in Thailand you have to tread very carefully and show utmost respect to them. Anyone who has spent any time in Thailand will know what I mean. Thai courts are no place for defense attorny's to go in with guns blazing. It would end badly. It would explain why the defense didn't go gunning as many say they should have.

a judge in a court on the Island of Koh Samui gets the utmost resepct from everyone without question

[smedly]

“A Thai man said he was beaten up by police after he turned down a police offer of reward money if he agreed to be a witness in the murder case of two British tourists in Thailand’s tourist island of Koh Tao”

“During the interrogation, the police investigators asked him to agree to pretend to have knowledge of the incident, Pornprasit said.”

“The police allegedly offered him a 700,000 baht reward and guaranteed him witness status.”

http://prachatai.org/english/node/4373

is he still breathing

I can relate to a Thai person like this who at least has some honor something very rare in Thailand and something that should be promoted in schools

[SiSePuede419]

"therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability"

Exactly. Asian people are the most similar DNA phenotype (except for Native Americans).

Any two Americans (large ethnic mixture from all over the world) have about a 7% chance of matching any given loci on a chromosome.

I would guess any two Asians would be even higher.

Is it 100%? 90%? 80%? 70%?

This would change the interpretation of the DNA tests considerably.

[AGareth2]

DNA Failings

1. It consists of a one page table replete with hand written amendments, date changes and data alterations. This document would NOT be admissible in any court in the UK, Australia, USA, EU, Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapore.

2. It is NOT supported by any case notes, chain-of-custody records, nor statistics based on validated population data bases. The omission of that information is a COMPLETE abrogation of international ISO 17025 standards and would lead to a FULL audit of the police laboratory by an international accreditation agency!

3. The table has been used to match DNA components, which is an extreme oversimplification of the entire DNA process! It relies on single alleles rather than genotypes. (An allele is ONE of a pair of genes that appear in ONE part of a chromosome that help to determine heredity traits.)

4. Because there is NO statistical analysis to determine the probability of the stated frequencies in the table, it is absolutely NOT possible to determine the likelihood of the accused as being the contributors to the mixture! There, in fact, could be a VERY large number of other individuals who could NOT be ruled out as contributors!

5. It is, therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability!

For these reasons, it CANNOT be said (from any kind of scientific or legal standpoint) that there was a match between the DNA from the semen the police alleged to have and the DNA that was (forcibly, without consent or legal representation) retrieved from the two accused! Basing the conviction on COMPLETELY flawed DNA evidence has resulted in an EXTREME miscarriage of justice!

How does this marry with the statement made by a poster saying that the only other individual with the same profile would be an identical twin?

Who is telling the truth?

[jucel]

I can't believe a "tourist" country, that Thailand proclaims to be, can be allowed to let it's people kill with impunity. So many murders and assisted suicides. Surely it's time for a red flag to be placed on this place & severe warnings

[smedly]

"therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability"

Exactly. Asian people are the most similar DNA phenotype (except for Native Americans).

Any two Americans (large ethnic mixture from all over the world) have about a 7% chance of matching any given loci on a chromosome.

I would guess any two Asians would be even higher.

Is it 100%? 90%? 80%? 70%?

This would change the interpretation of the DNA tests considerably.

when this verdict was made public on the 24th I made a point about who the Judge consulted to reach his conclusion about DNA as he could hardly be considered an expert, it seems all he did was accept testimoney from mostly the police who claimed they tested DNA and it was a match, the defence was very weak on this and as I said they could have done more but again maybe they were waiting for an expected appeal either way. I still maintain that original samples need to be produced (if they exist) and from there retested, it is then up to the defence if results from any retest they carry out are released in court, either way by all accounts the claimed DNA testing carried out by the police is unsound and shambolic

It is also worth noting that the hang'em high club have effectively been silenced

Edited January 3, 2016 by smedly

[smedly]

I can't believe a "tourist" country, that Thailand proclaims to be, can be allowed to let it's people kill with impunity. So many murders and assisted suicides. Surely it's time for a red flag to be placed on this place & severe warnings

like I have said many times - it's all about the money and power, very simplistic and dangerous people who continue to think they are a hub of something, they have a political system that is constantly in a state of flux which they pretend is a democracy which continually collapses "again" because of greed power and money

Koh Tao has a group of thugs that prey on young innocent western girls and there is nothing there to stop them

[AleG]

How does this marry with the statement made by a poster saying that the only other individual with the same profile would be an identical twin?

Who is telling the truth?

Not Andrew Drummond, but of course you guys just lap it up; and then complain about "misinformation".

[AleG]

I can't believe a "tourist" country, that Thailand proclaims to be, can be allowed to let it's people kill with impunity. So many murders and assisted suicides. Surely it's time for a red flag to be placed on this place & severe warnings

like I have said many times - it's all about the money and power, very simplistic and dangerous people who continue to think they are a hub of something, they have a political system that is constantly in a state of flux which they pretend is a democracy which continually collapses "again" because of greed power and money

Koh Tao has a group of thugs that prey on young innocent western girls and there is nothing there to stop them

Of course, that's why we keep hearing about young innocent Western girls being preyed upon there. No, wait, we don't.

Reality doesn't mesh with your ideas.

[AGareth2]

How does this marry with the statement made by a poster saying that the only other individual with the same profile would be an identical twin?

Who is telling the truth?

Not Andrew Drummond, but of course you guys just lap it up; and then complain about "misinformation".

well that answers the question "who is telling the truth" great and intelligent answer

Thanks

Edited January 3, 2016 by AGareth2

[boomerangutang]

I can't believe a "tourist" country, that Thailand proclaims to be, can be allowed to let it's people kill with impunity. So many murders and assisted suicides. Surely it's time for a red flag to be placed on this place & severe warnings

re; tourism in Thailand: Every news article on the crime, particularly in the initial weeks after the crime, and particularly articles from Thai news sources: mentioned the crime's effect on tourism. Even the self-appointed lead investigating cop (also Thailand's police chief at the time), Somyot, couldn't help but mention the bad effect on tourism every time he made a mention of the crime. He mentioned it when he threatened anyone who said anything disparaging about the Headman's family could be thrown in jail for 5 years and fined Bt.100k. No mention of regret that two lovely young farang backpackers were brutally murdered, but instead constant mentions of how this could badly impact on tourist revenue.

Imagine if, for the weeks following the attack on the Twin Towers in NY, that authorities kept repeating: "Oh this could be bad for tourism." "We must find culprits as soon as possible, so tourist dollars can flow in as before." "Bust anyone you can for the crime as soon as possible, so we can rebuilt NY's tourist industry as quick as possible." .....with scant mention of the sad loss of lives.

[boomerangutang]

I can't believe a "tourist" country, that Thailand proclaims to be, can be allowed to let it's people kill with impunity. So many murders and assisted suicides. Surely it's time for a red flag to be placed on this place & severe warnings

like I have said many times - it's all about the money and power, very simplistic and dangerous people who continue to think they are a hub of something, they have a political system that is constantly in a state of flux which they pretend is a democracy which continually collapses "again" because of greed power and money

Koh Tao has a group of thugs that prey on young innocent western girls and there is nothing there to stop them

Of course, that's why we keep hearing about young innocent Western girls being preyed upon there. No, wait, we don't.

Reality doesn't mesh with your ideas.

I'm still riled up about the pretty young Dutch gal who was roughly raped in Krabi province (not far from Ko Tao), months ago. She told cops who did it (which is harrowing in itself), cops arrested the Thai guide who admitted the rape, then, in typical Thai style, local cops let him go the next morning. Why? Because he changed his story. He probably said it was consensual, so his cop buddies just winked, slapped him on the back with a few chuckles, and let him go. Message from that true story: Rape is allowed in Thailand, if it's done by a local guy - particularly if the guy is buddies with local cops.

[Artisi]

I can't believe a "tourist" country, that Thailand proclaims to be, can be allowed to let it's people kill with impunity. So many murders and assisted suicides. Surely it's time for a red flag to be placed on this place & severe warnings

re; tourism in Thailand: Every news article on the crime, particularly in the initial weeks after the crime, and particularly articles from Thai news sources: mentioned the crime's effect on tourism. Even the self-appointed lead investigating cop (also Thailand's police chief at the time), Somyot, couldn't help but mention the bad effect on tourism every time he made a mention of the crime. He mentioned it when he threatened anyone who said anything disparaging about the Headman's family could be thrown in jail for 5 years and fined Bt.100k. No mention of regret that two lovely young farang backpackers were brutally murdered, but instead constant mentions of how this could badly impact on tourist revenue.

Imagine if, for the weeks following the attack on the Twin Towers in NY, that authorities kept repeating: "Oh this could be bad for tourism." "We must find culprits as soon as possible, so tourist dollars can flow in as before." "Bust anyone you can for the crime as soon as possible, so we can rebuilt NY's tourist industry as quick as possible." .....with scant mention of the sad loss of lives.

Imagine is the key word, how could you ever try to compare "thinking" as a rational intelligent undertaking when the BIB are involved, all they can think of is money, power, position....

[IslandLover]

Except that there weren't any bite marks. The British coroner confirmed this.

Embalming washes out bit marks, and bodies have to be embalmed if they are put on a plane.

We seem to be going around in circles again

The bodies were only partially embalmed, whatever that means.

[asiamaster]

I'm still riled up about the pretty young Dutch gal who was roughly raped in Krabi province (not far from Ko Tao), months ago. She told cops who did it (which is harrowing in itself), cops arrested the Thai guide who admitted the rape, then, in typical Thai style, local cops let him go the next morning. Why? Because he changed his story. He probably said it was consensual, so his cop buddies just winked, slapped him on the back with a few chuckles, and let him go. Message from that true story: Rape is allowed in Thailand, if it's done by a local guy - particularly if the guy is buddies with local cops.

The 'Evil Man from Krabi' was sentenced to 20 years in jail on 16 December 2013....

[iReason]

"They think our country is beautiful and is safe so they can do whatever they want, they wear bikinis and walk everywhere.”

"Can they be safe in bikinis... unless they are not beautiful?"

"We have to look into the behavior of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image" Chan-ocha told reporters.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-murders-prime-minister-prayuth-chan-ocha-says-only-ugly-girls-are-safe-bikinis-1466027

[HUH]

I can't believe a "tourist" country, that Thailand proclaims to be, can be allowed to let it's people kill with impunity. So many murders and assisted suicides. Surely it's time for a red flag to be placed on this place & severe warnings

like I have said many times - it's all about the money and power, very simplistic and dangerous people who continue to think they are a hub of something, they have a political system that is constantly in a state of flux which they pretend is a democracy which continually collapses "again" because of greed power and money

Koh Tao has a group of thugs that prey on young innocent western girls and there is nothing there to stop them

Of course, that's why we keep hearing about young innocent Western girls being preyed upon there. No, wait, we don't.

Reality doesn't mesh with your ideas.

The UK foreign office begs to differ:

Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago).

[iReason]

"Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago)."

"Violent sexual assaults and robberies against both men and women are reported regularly in the Koh Samui archipelago and Krabi province."

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/safety-and-security

The disinformation campaign is pathetic.

[AleG]

What's pathetic is the backpedaling, going from bands of thai thugs in Koh Tao preying on innocent young people with impunity to unespecified assaults, by unspecified people throughout an entire province without a mention of that going on with impunity.

[iReason]

"On arriving the day after the murders, the senior police officer on the island assured us the culprit could not have been a Thai person."

"No Thai could possibly commit such a crime, he said, forgetting the equally ghastly murder of Welsh tourist Katherine Horton in 2006, by, it turned out, two Thai fishermen."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29262496

[AleG]

I'm still riled up about the pretty young Dutch gal who was roughly raped in Krabi province (not far from Ko Tao), months ago. She told cops who did it (which is harrowing in itself), cops arrested the Thai guide who admitted the rape, then, in typical Thai style, local cops let him go the next morning. Why? Because he changed his story. He probably said it was consensual, so his cop buddies just winked, slapped him on the back with a few chuckles, and let him go. Message from that true story: Rape is allowed in Thailand, if it's done by a local guy - particularly if the guy is buddies with local cops.

The 'Evil Man from Krabi' was sentenced to 20 years in jail on 16 December 2013....

But he said it was a true story! Complete with all sort of lurid details and everything.

[AleG]

"On arriving the day after the murders, the senior police officer on the island assured us the culprit could not have been a Thai person."

"No Thai could possibly commit such a crime, he said, forgetting the equally ghastly murder of Welsh tourist Katherine Horton in 2006, by, it turned out, two Thai fishermen."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29262496

This often gets brought up to imply that the fix was in right from the start, but the fact that a few days later Thai people were named as prime suspects is conveniently ignored. At least until it's time for that other fact to be used according to the present needs of the spinsters.

[iReason]

“Police in Thailand said today they had identified two men they wanted to speak to as part of the inquiry into the murder of two British tourists.”

“One of the suspects had been questioned while the other had left the island where the killings took place.”

“Lt Gen Panya Mamen, a senior southern police commander, said the suspects were related to the village leader on the island of Koh Tao.”

“The police chief said they were liaising with officers in the capital to try and detain the second man.”

“Police said they looking into claims Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller had argued with a Thai man in a bar before they were killed.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-police-identify-two-suspects-over-deaths-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-9751056.html

[AleG]

That's right, just copy and paste bits and pieces, never stop to think that The Narrative requieres to spin each one in a mutually contradictory way.

[iReason]

Enter Somyot:

"We haven't targeted anyone and have not concluded whether the murderers are still in the area,'' he said.”

“The mystery surrounding the identities of the killers had grown over reports, which he denied, that a suspect had fled the island and was hiding in Bangkok."

"I was surprised at the news.”

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-police-blame-koh-tao-probe-delays-on-social-media-48872.php

See post #2715

See post #2265 And view the blatant manipulation of the "suspects" at the crime scene.