The End Of Organic Farming Might Be Sooner Than We Thought

[Allgeier]

I can show you dozens of organic farms, including my wife in the Surin/Bururam provinces along with the Green markets that the products are sold in. All you have to do is get out of the cities and look.

And she can make a living from this?

Than maybe we should ask here wife how she prepare the soil. What she do against insekt. How she make the fertilizer and from where she get the ingrediants.

The customer pay more for organic or not?

many question

Yes. IsaanAussie. We have here many Member who "play" with Organic farming. But witch one make a living from this? This is the big question.

Who can make a living from selling Organic Thinks.

If there are people outside who buying every month a couple of freerange pig. I will start tomorrow to build a shelter outside for them. But the Organic Lifestock Thread is very quite because nobody care about the animal.

Last year there was a Organic Market for 3 Day's in Roi Et. Organized by OTOP. Very, Very Quiet. Every Friday there is a "Organic market" in Roi Et. Very Quiet. Nobody can make a living from selling thinks there.

[Allgeier]

To make a Living needs in my eyes betwenn 10000 and 20000 Bath/Month.

We have here one Member who get every Month this amount from selling Organic Thinks?

[CLW]

One also has to consider that (of course depends on crops) organic farming can save you money even if you sell the product for the same price.

[Gary A]

I know an old couple who make a living off less than two rai. They harvest different vegetables every day and their daughter sells the vegetables for them. The daughter sells out quickly because people like organic grown vegetables. The strange thing about it is that they don't call them organic. They just raise them as they always have. Both the old people are out in the garden for hours most every day picking off bugs, pulling and hoeing weeds. If they were to use chemical fertilizer, they wouldn't have many weeds. the weeds come from the manure. I have told the daughter that they could save a lot of hard work using commercial fertilizer and people would still buy their vegetables. The old folks like the old ways and want no part of anything chemical.

[Allgeier]

But how mutch need this old couple every month for the living of them? I dont think so there need every month 20000 Bath for living.

This should be the normal way. To work together with the nature and not against it.

[farmerjo]

One also has to consider that (of course depends on crops) organic farming can save you money even if you sell the product for the same price.

That's what i'm trying to work out.

How does it save you money.Ok providing you have seed from the last harvest it may save a bit but i do struggle to find other savings.

Is your labour not worth anything.

[IsaanAussie]

OK I'll jump in with some specifics, facts from my farm. Right up front I have never claimed our farm to be certified as organic so please, no silly questions about the difference between a rule book and maximising the use of farm "wastes". I also ask any sceptics to accept the figures as stated.

We compost all our manure with rice straw and hulls, using biostimulants and biochar. On average 10 bags every 3 days or 100 bags per month (150baht per bag) or 15,000 baht per month. We could sell much more than we produce.

We also produce fertilisers, compost teas and worm castings using farm "wastes", that is zero cost. There are buy-in items such as rock phosphate and dolomite which are added to the fertilisers but these are used in relatively small quantities and cost under 3 baht per kilo. Worm castings we sell at 30baht per kilo and produce over 300 kgs per month.

We grow mushrooms and harvest around 100 kgs per month, again sold at 150 baht/kg (seems to be a favourite price?)

Of course then there are the pigs and many other things (5.5 ton of rice/year) that contribute to the total integration of the farm.

So can an "organic" farmer produce sales of 20K baht per month with almost no external costs? Well I can for one.

[Allgeier]

You are right IsaanAussie. But how many Millions of Bath must invest to get every Month 20000 Bath?

How many local Farmers can follow your Model?

[IsaanAussie]

Read my post again. These are "add-on" activities on my farm that required very small capital outlay and are well within any farmer's reach. A few thousand baht at most.

Put in the time to convert "wastes" into resources is all that is needed to derive some income from your labour and/or reduce your external expenditure.

My farm model? Pretty simple really, bit like a jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces fit together. Anyone could follow it.

[khwaibah]

I can show you dozens of organic farms, including my wife in the Surin/Bururam provinces along with the Green markets that the products are sold in. All you have to do is get out of the cities and look.

Nice to hear,how does your wife find the workload for organic.

No more than a 9 to 5 job in the city. She has friends that are into this big time that chip in along with government agencies. People that say organic farming is dead do not have a clue on whats going on at the local level.

[farmerjo]

I can show you dozens of organic farms, including my wife in the Surin/Bururam provinces along with the Green markets that the products are sold in. All you have to do is get out of the cities and look.

Nice to hear,how does your wife find the workload for organic.

No more than a 9 to 5 job in the city. She has friends that are into this big time that chip in along with government agencies. People that say organic farming is dead do not have a clue on whats going on at the local level.

Thanks for that,

Any chance of the names of the government agencies.

Up here in the North-East Issan boonies,those contacts are probably available as well.

[Allgeier]

IsaanAussie:

On the Paper everythink sound easy. In the Praxis here where i live nobody will buy some wurmcast for 30 Bath/kg. The people buying here chickenpoo for 22 Bath/ 20 kg.

[IsaanAussie]

IsaanAussie:

On the Paper everythink sound easy. In the Praxis here where i live nobody will buy some wurmcast for 30 Bath/kg. The people buying here chickenpoo for 22 Bath/ 20 kg.

Much the same in our village. So your issue is do you buy the manure and add value to it, or buy your own chickens. I buy cow manure for our worm farm because I do not have cows, the worms do the rest. What worm casts we cant sell get used on farm. I make enough from the sales to more than cover the purchase cost with the excess wormcasts reducing my buy-in fertiliser cost.

All pieces of the puzzle.

We have RIR chickens and sold the eggs plus a few items of food we made for sale. Most of their feed was purchased and the net result was the eggs we ate were free and the feed cost covered. A few baht of profit was made but the first step was to have free eggs. One day I will expand the number of birds as we could easily sell more eggs, but I will develop farm made feed first so the extra effort yields a worthwhile profit.

[Allgeier]

Last week i give away my 4 RIR. Wasting money with the chicken. The peking duck its many times easier.

What kind of people buying fertilizer for 30 bath/kg?

[IsaanAussie]

Last week i give away my 4 RIR. Wasting money with the chicken. The peking duck its many times easier.

What kind of people buying fertilizer for 30 bath/kg?

The kind that have 30 baht!

[Allgeier]

If i like to plant corn, cassava or somethink else. How many kg of organic Fertilizer i need for one rai. And this multipiliziert for 30 Bath/kg = .....

Or this kind of fertilizer is not for local farmers. Because its to expensive.

[Gary A]

My wife does all the shopping but one day I went to the local fresh market with her. She was buying all the vegetables with bug holes chewed in them. On the next table were beautiful vegetables. I pointed out the much better looking vegetables and got a strange look from my wife. She replied that if the bugs didn't want to eat those vegetables that she didn't want to eat them either. I had never thought about it that way.

[IsaanAussie]

If i like to plant corn, cassava or somethink else. How many kg of organic Fertilizer i need for one rai. And this multipiliziert for 30 Bath/kg = .....

Or this kind of fertilizer is not for local farmers. Because its to expensive.

You make a statement here that I understand, too expensive. Well compare it to quality chemical fertilisers that include trace elements and are biostumulant that sell at 1500 baht for a 50 kg bag. Basically, you get what you pay for,if you are lucky and you know what you need.

As for the rest of this post, sorry, but there is no detail on which to base an answer.

[khwaibah]

I can show you dozens of organic farms, including my wife in the Surin/Bururam provinces along with the Green markets that the products are sold in. All you have to do is get out of the cities and look.

Nice to hear,how does your wife find the workload for organic.

No more than a 9 to 5 job in the city. She has friends that are into this big time that chip in along with government agencies. People that say organic farming is dead do not have a clue on whats going on at the local level.

Thanks for that,

Any chance of the names of the government agencies.

Up here in the North-East Issan boonies,those contacts are probably available as well.

Wish I could be more precise but the best I can do is Surin Livestock Breeding and Research Center Na Bua Surin Thailand at GPS 14.7684406338, 103.433361152 (Surin Livestock Breeding and Research Center Na Bua Surin Thailand. The Surin Provincial Border Area Development Center at GPS 14.472726, 103.60543 which is Kap Choeng. I can also add the Thai army is into this big time as they have out on 1 weeks seminars that my wife and others have attended. Have your partner keep their ears open to the locals as thats the best king of inf.

[Allgeier]

I am waiting now for 5 pages somebody start to write about the Land Development Department.

There have the knowledge too tell how to change the soi. To bring life inside the soil. Every chemical fertiliser killing only every life inside the soil. The LDD can also queck the soil so the Farmer know what the soil need. Many question here from the Member. The LDD have the answer.

I not get what i pay for it. A good fertiliser who brings back life inside the soil will not cost more than 1000 Bath for 1000 kg. If its a expensive one maybe 4000 Bath for 1000 kg. The soil here is so bad. Of course because there is no life inside. The life we must bring back insite the soil so the soil is healthy and can protect vegetables against predators.

[loong]

My wife does all the shopping but one day I went to the local fresh market with her. She was buying all the vegetables with bug holes chewed in them. On the next table were beautiful vegetables. I pointed out the much better looking vegetables and got a strange look from my wife. She replied that if the bugs didn't want to eat those vegetables that she didn't want to eat them either. I had never thought about it that way.

If it wasn't you, then somebody else posted the same or similar in some thread quite a few years back. Then I thought "How true" and it made me smile.

Thanks for making me smile again, it is just so logical.

[farmerjo]

This always puts a smile on the dial after a bad day.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvJuQTeqhHw

They don't make comedy like this anymore.

[Gary A]

My wife does all the shopping but one day I went to the local fresh market with her. She was buying all the vegetables with bug holes chewed in them. On the next table were beautiful vegetables. I pointed out the much better looking vegetables and got a strange look from my wife. She replied that if the bugs didn't want to eat those vegetables that she didn't want to eat them either. I had never thought about it that way.

If it wasn't you, then somebody else posted the same or similar in some thread quite a few years back. Then I thought "How true" and it made me smile.

Thanks for making me smile again, it is just so logical.

That was probably me. I did post that some time back.

[drtreelove]

My wife does all the shopping but one day I went to the local fresh market with her. She was buying all the vegetables with bug holes chewed in them. On the next table were beautiful vegetables. I pointed out the much better looking vegetables and got a strange look from my wife. She replied that if the bugs didn't want to eat those vegetables that she didn't want to eat them either. I had never thought about it that way.

If it wasn't you, then somebody else posted the same or similar in some thread quite a few years back. Then I thought "How true" and it made me smile.

Thanks for making me smile again, it is just so logical.

Maybe logical in the local talat, where growers of food products may only know older generation toxic pesticides vs let the bugs eat . And they may not have a clue about preventive management.

But this is not always logical at the best of organic farmers markets or CSA basket (Community Supported Agriculture).

Maybe the grower with the flawless produce knows what he or she is doing, and is on top of IPM (Integrated Pest Management, or better yet, Intelligent Plant Management), in its most wholistic, preventive, high nutrient density, organic form. He/she may know the plants and their potential problem profiles, in order to stay ahead of seasonal pest infestations and plant disease infections, with planning, early timing of treatments, good soil, water and pest management, preventive, botanical, mineral and biological controls. And has built the soil that his plants grow in, to have adequate and balanced soil minerals and healthy biological activity, that enhances plant physiological resistance to pest and disease problems.

This is where I see organic farming going right now, in a big way. More informed, more comprehensive in approach, more supported. The end of old school organic farming is inevitable, where people know what they don't want, a toxic environment and food supply, but don't know how to replace the older generation fertilizer and pesticide products with a more intelligent, comprehensive approach that is not just people vs hungry pest, but people in tune with nature and ecosystems.

[GuestHouse]

This is where I see organic farming going right now, in a big way. More informed, more comprehensive in approach, more supported. The end of old school organic farming is inevitable, where people know what they don't want, a toxic environment and food supply, but don't know how to replace the older generation fertilizer and pesticide products with a more intelligent, comprehensive approach that is not just people vs hungry pest, but people in tune with nature and ecosystems.

I think you have described the development direction of organic farming and organic markets very well, but to be fair to 'people', it is 'people' who have driven the change and if they have been misinformed, this is in a large part due to the efforts of the agrochemical industry which has actively worked to undermine the organic movement.

Again, I recommend the documentary film, The Real Dirt of Farmer John.

An insight into the tyranny the agrochemical industry operates.

[farmerjo]

This is where I see organic farming going right now, in a big way. More informed, more comprehensive in approach, more supported. The end of old school organic farming is inevitable, where people know what they don't want, a toxic environment and food supply, but don't know how to replace the older generation fertilizer and pesticide products with a more intelligent, comprehensive approach that is not just people vs hungry pest, but people in tune with nature and ecosystems.

I think you have described the development direction of organic farming and organic markets very well, but to be fair to 'people', it is 'people' who have driven the change and if they have been misinformed, this is in a large part due to the efforts of the agrochemical industry which has actively worked to undermine the organic movement.

Again, I recommend the documentary film, The Real Dirt of Farmer John.

An insight into the tyranny the agrochemical industry operates.

Just finished watching it.

Farming communities are normally tight knit and i understand why they didn't like him with strangers coming and going from the little bit of land he had left after he blew just about everything the generations before had created.

He was very smart having the ability to influence other people to use their MONEY and free LABOUR to make it work.

Pretty much an over educated weirdo.

I would not think he represents main stream organic farmers.

[GuestHouse]

Just finished watching it.

Farming communities are normally tight knit and i understand why they didn't like him with strangers coming and going from the little bit of land he had left after he blew just about everything the generations before had created.

He was very smart having the ability to influence other people to use their MONEY and free LABOUR to make it work.

Pretty much an over educated weirdo.

I would not think he represents main stream organic farmers.

You seem to have a problem with education.

Oh and, his farm is working.

Maybe all those "over educated weirdos".

But hey-ho, Organic farming and the Organic food market is on a rapid growth curve and certainly no end to organic farming is in sight.

[farmerjo]

This guy is pretty level headed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmg88dsHk_E

[CLW]

Good guy with true words!

The only thing you have to keep in mind is that in temperature soils it is easier to accumulate OM than in tropical soils. That is the real art and challenge here in Thailand.

[drtreelove]

Good guy with true words!

The only thing you have to keep in mind is that in temperature soils it is easier to accumulate OM than in tropical soils. That is the real art and challenge here in Thailand.

I think this should read "temperate" zone soils, cooler climates. And this is so true. That's why it is important to diligently manage this aspect of "organic" farming, along with soil mineral balances, that can be thrown off with leaching during monsoon season. Annual soil tests and fine tuning of soil minerals, OM content and maintaining rhizosphere health is advisable. http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/the-rhizosphere-roots-soil-and-67500617

Crop rotations with leguminous "green manure" crops are one of the most economical methods to incorporate OM without importing bulk materials.