What course/certification?

[Mr Somtam]

I'm currently living back in the Netherlands. I would like to get a PROPER certification for teaching English as a foreigner language. I have done a TEFL some ten years ago but that wasn't really a good course. No, I am now looking for something serious that I can do here in my home country and that really has some substance and recognisation internationally. There are so many certs and Courses offered, I am a bit lost! There is celta, ielts,tefl, pg etc. Etc. Can someone point me in the right direction please?

Edited January 2, 2016 by Mr Somtam

[tonray]

Generally the CELTA is the most highly regarded...but don't take it lightly...it is not a cakewalk. Usually if you intend to teach as a career choice overseas this is the one to take. But if you simply want a good course when you come to Thailand I can recommend a very good one in BKK privately if interested.

Keep in mind the most important thing is to have a college degree, that is what will allow you to work legally. The TEFL/CELTA is not generally required but helps if you do not have an education degree.

[brewsterbudgen]

CELTA or Trinity TESOL.

[aidenai]

A Graduate Diploma in Education/ Teaching Profession or equivalent.

Edited January 2, 2016 by aidenai

[Mr Somtam]

What are my options without college degree?

Edited January 2, 2016 by Mr Somtam

[aidenai]

What are my options without college degree?

If you don't have at least Dutch HBO education or even better, WO, there's no way for you to work in G12 schools supervised by OBEC and the TCT.

[Mr Somtam]

Ok, what do you mean by G12?

[aidenai]

Apologise. I meant K12 which is Kindergarten up to grade 1 which is basic education up to grade 12. 6 years primary school and 6 years secondary school.

Edited January 2, 2016 by aidenai

[bangmai]

And as well as many Dutch speak English (frequently better than the Scottish), you will be excluded from many jobs because of your nationality. It is likely that any Filipino, with a degree, would get preference over you....for a lot less money.

[BruceMangosteen]

. It is likely that any Filipino, with a degree, would get preference over you....for a lot less money.

That is becoming true even with Native English Speakers with a degree from a real University. The only exceptions are International schools which only hire "real" teachers from NES'ing countries with degrees, often advanced degrees, from same.

So it breaks down like this....Filipino's are taking over the low paying jobs because they are willing and wanting to earn triple upwards of what is paid in the Philippines. NES's of the ordinary kind are being smiled at and told to get their degree in Education and "apply" like all others, in a few years.

[Mr Somtam]

. It is likely that any Filipino, with a degree, would get preference over you....for a lot less money.

That is becoming true even with Native English Speakers with a degree from a real University. The only exceptions are International schools which only hire "real" teachers from NES'ing countries with degrees, often advanced degrees, from same.

So it breaks down like this....Filipino's are taking over the low paying jobs because they are willing and wanting to earn triple upwards of what is paid in the Philippines. NES's of the ordinary kind are being smiled at and told to get their degree in Education and "apply" like all others, in a few years.

WoW! I didn't know it was that rough already for foreigners wanting to teach and make a living in Thailand. Maybe learning translation or something like that (can be done from home , online) is a better option for me... Too bad.

[Mr Somtam]

Thanks for all the answers and replies people.

Let's look at the following scenario:

I will get CELTA certified. I have a TEFL already (Text and Talk, done in 2001).

I have done 5 years BSc ICT but no diploma. So I am good with computers and ICT stuff.

What are my chances at getting a reasonably paid job in teaching in Thailand? Maybe teaching adults/businesses/private lessons/etc. etc.

There must be some way to get a job in the LOS! Am I wrong?

[zeichen]

Without a degree you won't be able to do much at all.

Even with a degree, you would not earn anymore money with a CELTA than what you have already. It will not allow you to teach at public schools. It will help you a little teaching oral communication to adults using the communicative approach. That is pretty much all it will do. The other things that you will learn from it you will already know, from your previous experience.

EFL in Thailand is dying which has never been that lucrative anyway.

If you had a degree already the best option are rograms like Teacher Ready which grant a teacher's license. They are more expensive about 5k dollars but in less than 1 year you will be able to teach at your choice of schools and countries.

Not being a native speaker won't be a disadvantage if applying to teach IT at international schools. You could also find better paid jobs in other countries.

CELTA and teaching EFL is a short term solution and one that is dying out in Thailand but without a degree, you will just be limited to not stable jobs.

As far as translation that depends on your ability in the languages. But to be honest, there are 1000's of Thais that can do anything you can do, that will charge less. Though you could translate Thai documents into your native languages better than most Thais could, translating into Thai would be more common and they would have the advantage.

In short, get a degree for the long term solution, or invest and start a business.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

[Mr Somtam]

Invest and start a business? As a foreigner in Thailand? Sounds like even more trouble than the teaching career...

[Mencken]

Without a college degree...

Why even bother?

Non NES

No degree

Already has waivers against your name

What is your future and income here?

Exercise in futility

Get a degree and a PGCE or don't waste your time. Seriously, just like squerking thru life with no degree, you are asking how you can squeeze thru this one.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Mencken

[bangmai]

If you have five year towards some type of BS; you should be pretty close...why not finish that, and get a post baccalaureate teaching credential, or get an MA Ed., which might only be 33 semester hours more than a BS.

[puffy]

It depends what you want out of life.

You could come here and get a job in a Private Language School. No degree needed.

Work out in the sticks, white face only requirement.

You will be on about 30k a month, live hand to mouth, not save money and not be able to plan for the future.

You could do this and study for a degree while you are out here, then you would be able to get a better job.

The difference between properly qualified teachers pay and not is very significant.

If you have An Education Degree, with PGCE or a Masters in Education you will be on more than 100k a month.

You will also need a neutral accent. Being non native is a big drawback in getting a job at a top school.

[zeichen]

"If you have An Education Degree, with PGCE or a Masters in Education you will be on more than 100k a month."

Really? I think that you are deluding yourself. You need to have a degree in education just to get a teachers license and teach at normal schools for more than 3 years.

There are loads of people with advanced degrees making less than 60k baht a month. The jobs paying more than 100k are usually off limits to those without home country experience.

[bangmai]

I agree with Zeichen......if you want to make 60K at a school, where the parents are shelling out 600K per year...Prem in Chiang Mai is hiring, and they want the B Ed., too. I think it is likely that Lanna International is paying less than that...Some of the best, steadiest, most reliable teachers that I have seen here, often find themselves out of work for simply staying too long. In a place where style over substance is the rule of the day; they are easily expendable.

[Loaded]

"If you have An Education Degree, with PGCE or a Masters in Education you will be on more than 100k a month."

Really? I think that you are deluding yourself. You need to have a degree in education just to get a teachers license and teach at normal schools for more than 3 years.

There are loads of people with advanced degrees making less than 60k baht a month. The jobs paying more than 100k are usually off limits to those without home country experience.

You've repeated that many times. It is, however, deluded.

A BEd is one road to obtain a permanent teacher license. Another road is to obtain a post-graduate diploma in education. There are expensive ones (PGCE from a UK university) or cheap ones (IFUGAO from the Philippines) that offer part-time study while working in Thailand. Being enrolled on one is sufficient to obtain a 3rd waiver.

In summary,

Degree and no permanent teacher license and no enrollment on post-grad study and you'll have 2 2-year waivers. IE 4 years max

Degree and no permanent teacher license but enrolled on post-grad study and you'll have 3 (I've read reports of some people receiving 4) 2-year waivers. IE 6 - 8 years max

Degree + post-grad diploma in education or a BEd and you'll have a permanent teacher license.

The IFUGAO post-grad diploma costs 55K THB.

[Loaded]

I agree with Zeichen......if you want to make 60K at a school, where the parents are shelling out 600K per year...Prem in Chiang Mai is hiring, and they want the B Ed., too. I think it is likely that Lanna International is paying less than that...Some of the best, steadiest, most reliable teachers that I have seen here, often find themselves out of work for simply staying too long. In a place where style over substance is the rule of the day; they are easily expendable.

Prem want more than a BEd and they pay 100K plus

Lanna International does pay less, maybe closer to 60K, but the management and quality of education they deliver is excellent.

As teachers at these international schools hold BEds or degrees plus post-grad diplomas, such as UK PGCEs, in education, it's only a matter of applying to the TCT in order to receive a permanent teacher license.

The last thing any school wants is to lose experienced, reliable and long-term teachers. To the schools, good teachers are not expendable.

[bangmai]

Looks like there were close to 20 openings at Prem being advertised a few months ago.

[zeichen]

"Prem want more than a BEd and they pay 100K plus"

Not if hired in country. The pay around 60-80k. I knew of a PhD there on less than 100k

"The last thing any school wants is to lose experienced, reliable and long-term teachers. To the schools, good teachers are not expendable."

Prem has an extremely high turnover rate for teachers.

Lanna is small so you cannot compare. They used to start off at 40-50k. Not sure if they are much higher now.

The point is though, it is better to work abroad at international schools. For the same qualifications you can double your salary in China, triple it in the middle east.

Edited February 8, 2016 by zeichen

[zeichen]

"If you have An Education Degree, with PGCE or a Masters in Education you will be on more than 100k a month."

Really? I think that you are deluding yourself. You need to have a degree in education just to get a teachers license and teach at normal schools for more than 3 years.

There are loads of people with advanced degrees making less than 60k baht a month. The jobs paying more than 100k are usually off limits to those without home country experience.

You've repeated that many times. It is, however, deluded.

A BEd is one road to obtain a permanent teacher license. Another road is to obtain a post-graduate diploma in education. There are expensive ones (PGCE from a UK university) or cheap ones (IFUGAO from the Philippines) that offer part-time study while working in Thailand. Being enrolled on one is sufficient to obtain a 3rd waiver.

In summary,

Degree and no permanent teacher license and no enrollment on post-grad study and you'll have 2 2-year waivers. IE 4 years max

Degree and no permanent teacher license but enrolled on post-grad study and you'll have 3 (I've read reports of some people receiving 4) 2-year waivers. IE 6 - 8 years max

Degree + post-grad diploma in education or a BEd and you'll have a permanent teacher license.

The IFUGAO post-grad diploma costs 55K THB.

My entire point was that there are so many people that have either degrees in education (yes, I grouped masters in education, and post grad diplomas like PGCE into this category because they all satisfy the teacher's license), home country teacher's license and home country experience working in Thai government and private schools that the blanket statement that anyone that is qualified like this is earning 100k a month at international schools is just wrong. T

There are 100s of ads requiring high qualifications paying as low as 50k baht and rarely over 80k baht. The top paying jobs are more scarce and usually require more than what is now required by TCT.

Good International school jobs here are not as easy to come by and most decent ones hire from recruiters like "Search Associates" and not just walk ins.

[bangmai]

"Prem want more than a BEd and they pay 100K plus"

Not if hired in country. The pay around 60-80k. I knew of a PhD there on less than 100k

"The last thing any school wants is to lose experienced, reliable and long-term teachers. To the schools, good teachers are not expendable."

Prem has an extremely high turnover rate for teachers.

Lanna is small so you cannot compare. They used to start off at 40-50k. Not sure if they are much higher now.

The point is though, it is better to work abroad at international schools. For the same qualifications you can double your salary in China, triple it in the middle east.

Correct again, Z. There was even a thread on Prem in the CM Forum a month or so ago. It was funny that the defenders of the school were saying how it is perfectly normal for the International school teachers to only stay one or two years. It was hinted that there has been a bit of a house cleaning going on....can you imagine a school requiring more hours and less pay? In Thailand? Very few are making 100K in Thailand...and that would include the sleeziest of the TEFL Class recruiters. Heck, they got farang willing to work in boiler rooms for 30K, and that might get you a free ticket back to the US or UK to face charges.

[Mr Somtam]

Did you enjoy your daily glass of vinegar?

Without a college degree...

Why even bother?

Non NES

No degree

Already has waivers against your name

What is your future and income here?

Exercise in futility

Get a degree and a PGCE or don't waste your time. Seriously, just like squerking thru life with no degree, you are asking how you can squeeze thru this one.

[Mr Somtam]

Sort of reviving this old topic:

 

I am currently enrolled in a part time bachelor of Education English language teaching (full name in Dutch is: HBO lerarenopleiding 2e graads Engels Deeltijd) in The Netherlands.

I just thought to myself: the heck with the shortcuts and excuses, let's do it the proper way!

I hope to finish the course in 3 to 4 years, maybe work a little in The Netherlands, and then give Thailand another try.

 

I have to agree with a lot of posters in this thread: if you want a REAL job paying REAL money, you need to be qualified and properly trained. The schools that are serious about English language learning deserve teachers that know how to teach and are committed to the school and students. 

 

I am very happy with the choice I have made and I will keep Thaivisa readers updated on my progress.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Mr Somtam