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Water experts - Some advice please

scorecard

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in Chiang Mai

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Gonzo the Face Platinum Member

Gonzo the Face

Posted
Posted

Let me add my thoughts, for what its worth. I have been either coming to or living in CM for almost 30 years now, pushing 20 years, living right on the same spot on the river.

If any of you follow the chart on river levels, known as the Flood Chart, [soon to be known as the drought chart] the river levels in my time have never been this low. For my marker, I use the level reading taken at the Nawarat Bridge. My readings historically show me when its about to flood out of the banks and create a problem for me, but also I show that an average reading for this time of year is about 1.35. I have never, never seen the river this low. And this is not supposed to be the dry season, rather the opposite. Last week there was a low level posted of 0.70. Never have I seen anything close to this low level. Then as if by some miracle, the river rose to close to 1.30. No rain to speak of , so have to assume it was released from the dam. I have to say, boys and girls, the next few months are going to be problem filled.....

and if I have learned anything about Thainess, Songkran will still be the same wet and wild.

G

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Thorgal Gold Member

Thorgal

Posted
Posted

You need to be lucky to live in close proximity of an aquafier.

http://www.globalhydro.com.au/sustainable-water-management-essential-project-success/

Shallow wells (till +/-20m) will be draught as soon as surface water is consumed combined with shortage of rainfall.

Intermediate wells (till +/-50m) can reach deeper aquafiers

Deep water wells (till +/-150m) should be a solution, but they're quite rare in Thailand. Again depends on the rock formation of your soil.

It's a good investment nowadays for yourself to go for intermediate or deep water well. Communal water management is rather poor in case of draught (and floods).

Which is normal due to lack of rainfall and raising population. Most communal well are no more capable to reach the demand.

Industry, civil, and agricultural water comes mainly from similar well depths, which is a big mistake and for me the main root cause.

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northernjohn Ruby Member

northernjohn

Posted
Posted

Logically there will be measures put in place, studies done and maybe an Israeli irrigation expert called in.

However realistically I can see there being a certain monk or temple that will be good at rain predictions and water divining.

facepalm.gif

Just in the last week a number of people have mentioned how many monks did a New year blessing in a huge number of places etc etc. so therefore how good next year will be. I can see good bits in Buddhism but sometimes you do have to wonder.facepalm.gif

Thais really are the eternal optimists.

Not hat I have any use for the man but Thaksin did call in the Israeli water experts only to have their recommendations ignored by the next government he owned. Maybe those plans are in a file some where. They are among the best in the world at water management. I know Yingluck turned down an offer of help from the Netherlands also experts.

Going to return to read the rest of the posts and see if any of the people who have been here for many years have experienced it. I have seen 100 year old picture of the Ping under the Nawarat bridge almost dry.

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jobin Silver Member

jobin

Posted
Posted

Well, a few topics spring to mind. Firstly, if my moo baan loses water and i'm without, due to moo baan's shut off, can i claim house 'unlivable' and get some rent refund?

Secondly, if situation gets really dry, i can move to some nearby country, or Hong Kong, or South Carolina without any problems. Or of course, i might go native with 2 showers a week, once a week on dirty clothes washing, never wash the car, flush 3x per day only. I could survive, but would be better if i had a good woman to share the pain.

In USA, only SW corner of country very dry, most of west dry. But those folks are familiar with drought.

http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

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kaptainrob Silver Member

kaptainrob

Posted
Posted

Let me add my thoughts, for what its worth. I have been either coming to or living in CM for almost 30 years now, pushing 20 years, living right on the same spot on the river.

If any of you follow the chart on river levels, known as the Flood Chart, [soon to be known as the drought chart] the river levels in my time have never been this low. For my marker, I use the level reading taken at the Nawarat Bridge. My readings historically show me when its about to flood out of the banks and create a problem for me, but also I show that an average reading for this time of year is about 1.35. I have never, never seen the river this low. And this is not supposed to be the dry season, rather the opposite. Last week there was a low level posted of 0.70. Never have I seen anything close to this low level. Then as if by some miracle, the river rose to close to 1.30. No rain to speak of , so have to assume it was released from the dam. I have to say, boys and girls, the next few months are going to be problem filled.....

and if I have learned anything about Thainess, Songkran will still be the same wet and wild.

G

Gonzo, Nawarat Bridge water levels are determined by sluice gate controls at Pa Daet, below which, one can easily walk across Mae Ping.

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scorecard Star Member

scorecard

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You need to be lucky to live in close proximity of an aquafier.

http://www.globalhydro.com.au/sustainable-water-management-essential-project-success/

Shallow wells (till +/-20m) will be draught as soon as surface water is consumed combined with shortage of rainfall.

Intermediate wells (till +/-50m) can reach deeper aquafiers

Deep water wells (till +/-150m) should be a solution, but they're quite rare in Thailand. Again depends on the rock formation of your soil.

It's a good investment nowadays for yourself to go for intermediate or deep water well. Communal water management is rather poor in case of draught (and floods).

Which is normal due to lack of rainfall and raising population. Most communal well are no more capable to reach the demand.

Industry, civil, and agricultural water comes mainly from similar well depths, which is a big mistake and for me the main root cause.

Does anybody know if it's legal to dig a well in the garden of a house in a proper moo baan village?

I realize there maybe moo baan committee rules on this but just wondering if there are any actual national / province / district etc.,laws on this.

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sappersrest Advanced Member

sappersrest

Posted
Posted

You need to be lucky to live in close proximity of an aquafier.

http://www.globalhydro.com.au/sustainable-water-management-essential-project-success/

Shallow wells (till +/-20m) will be draught as soon as surface water is consumed combined with shortage of rainfall.

Intermediate wells (till +/-50m) can reach deeper aquafiers

Deep water wells (till +/-150m) should be a solution, but they're quite rare in Thailand. Again depends on the rock formation of your soil.

It's a good investment nowadays for yourself to go for intermediate or deep water well. Communal water management is rather poor in case of draught (and floods).

Which is normal due to lack of rainfall and raising population. Most communal well are no more capable to reach the demand.

Industry, civil, and agricultural water comes mainly from similar well depths, which is a big mistake and for me the main root cause.

Does anybody know if it's legal to dig a well in the garden of a house in a proper moo baan village?

I realize there maybe moo baan committee rules on this but just wondering if there are any actual national / province / district etc.,laws on this.

Avery good question, probably one of the best to date, thanks for asking.

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Thorgal Gold Member

Thorgal

Posted
Posted

You need to be lucky to live in close proximity of an aquafier.

http://www.globalhydro.com.au/sustainable-water-management-essential-project-success/

Shallow wells (till +/-20m) will be draught as soon as surface water is consumed combined with shortage of rainfall.

Intermediate wells (till +/-50m) can reach deeper aquafiers

Deep water wells (till +/-150m) should be a solution, but they're quite rare in Thailand. Again depends on the rock formation of your soil.

It's a good investment nowadays for yourself to go for intermediate or deep water well. Communal water management is rather poor in case of draught (and floods).

Which is normal due to lack of rainfall and raising population. Most communal well are no more capable to reach the demand.

Industry, civil, and agricultural water comes mainly from similar well depths, which is a big mistake and for me the main root cause.

Does anybody know if it's legal to dig a well in the garden of a house in a proper moo baan village?

I realize there maybe moo baan committee rules on this but just wondering if there are any actual national / province / district etc.,laws on this.

Thai Constitution provides clear laws in land ownership. Thai citizens are entitled of ownership rights on top of the land and below. Mineral resources and water can/may be used for domestic purposes. But you can't have ownership of water and mineral resources which belongs to the State.

So your Moo Ban can't claim any ruling of ownership. Only the State defined by Tambon, Amphur and Province.

You need to have drilling license/permission - because you're living in a urban community - from your local Tambon Administrative Organisation or known as Or Bor Tor that deals locally with roads, waste collection, animals, construction permits and more.

They will (should) investigate your demand or project in terms or aspects of use (domestical, agricultural or industrial), quantity, pollution, spill and/or civil health risks.

In rural communities the TOA works different : drilling permits are not required if you're living off the grid.

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Dante99 Platinum Member

Dante99

Posted
Posted

You need to be lucky to live in close proximity of an aquafier.

http://www.globalhydro.com.au/sustainable-water-management-essential-project-success/

Shallow wells (till +/-20m) will be draught as soon as surface water is consumed combined with shortage of rainfall.

Intermediate wells (till +/-50m) can reach deeper aquafiers

Deep water wells (till +/-150m) should be a solution, but they're quite rare in Thailand. Again depends on the rock formation of your soil.

It's a good investment nowadays for yourself to go for intermediate or deep water well. Communal water management is rather poor in case of draught (and floods).

Which is normal due to lack of rainfall and raising population. Most communal well are no more capable to reach the demand.

Industry, civil, and agricultural water comes mainly from similar well depths, which is a big mistake and for me the main root cause.

Does anybody know if it's legal to dig a well in the garden of a house in a proper moo baan village?

I realize there maybe moo baan committee rules on this but just wondering if there are any actual national / province / district etc.,laws on this.

What do you mean by "a proper moo baan village"?

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Thorgal Gold Member

Thorgal

Posted
Posted

You need to be lucky to live in close proximity of an aquafier.

http://www.globalhydro.com.au/sustainable-water-management-essential-project-success/

Shallow wells (till +/-20m) will be draught as soon as surface water is consumed combined with shortage of rainfall.

Intermediate wells (till +/-50m) can reach deeper aquafiers

Deep water wells (till +/-150m) should be a solution, but they're quite rare in Thailand. Again depends on the rock formation of your soil.

It's a good investment nowadays for yourself to go for intermediate or deep water well. Communal water management is rather poor in case of draught (and floods).

Which is normal due to lack of rainfall and raising population. Most communal well are no more capable to reach the demand.

Industry, civil, and agricultural water comes mainly from similar well depths, which is a big mistake and for me the main root cause.

Does anybody know if it's legal to dig a well in the garden of a house in a proper moo baan village?

I realize there maybe moo baan committee rules on this but just wondering if there are any actual national / province / district etc.,laws on this.

What do you mean by "a proper moo baan village"?

I think he means an average Moo Ban, with centralised utility supply of water from Moo Ban or municipality and electricity by third party.

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WinnieTheKhwai Star Member

WinnieTheKhwai

Posted
Posted

Maybe good to note that this is for water network maintenance, not drought related.

in the San Sai / Mae Jo area.

And that Chiang Mai Citylife apparently has been shut off too.. from Google. Because it has nothing to do with dams either:

The term “step test” is used when a measurement zone (DMA) is shut off into several

sub-areas and the flow rate monitored in real time. This kind of pre-location is usually

performed at night, at the time when the flow rate is expected to be at its lowest. This

minimises any fluctuations in the rate due to consumers.

If there is a leak within a sub-area, the flow drops disproportionately to the other

areas and looks like a step when displayed graphically. This method is widely used in

the United Kingdom. It is aptly called a “step test”.

In defense of Citylife though, when k. Pim is at the wheel the information is a lot better.

Such as in this article. Where it is made clear that drought will affect agriculture (and certain isolated areas) but not the city water supply.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citylife-articles/keeping-us-all-watered-meet-the-director-of-the-chiang-mai-irrigation-department/

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LivinLOS Star Member

LivinLOS

Posted
Posted

Maybe good to note that this is for water network maintenance, not drought related.

in the San Sai / Mae Jo area.

And that Chiang Mai Citylife apparently has been shut off too.. from Google. Because it has nothing to do with dams either:

The term “step test” is used when a measurement zone (DMA) is shut off into several

sub-areas and the flow rate monitored in real time. This kind of pre-location is usually

performed at night, at the time when the flow rate is expected to be at its lowest. This

minimises any fluctuations in the rate due to consumers.

If there is a leak within a sub-area, the flow drops disproportionately to the other

areas and looks like a step when displayed graphically. This method is widely used in

the United Kingdom. It is aptly called a “step test”.

In defense of Citylife though, when k. Pim is at the wheel the information is a lot better.

Such as in this article. Where it is made clear that drought will affect agriculture (and certain isolated areas) but not the city water supply.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citylife-articles/keeping-us-all-watered-meet-the-director-of-the-chiang-mai-irrigation-department/

I agree its claimed as being testing and not drought related.. Tho my BS filter does start ringing a little and wondering if the 'flow related' tests are not drought related flow issues..

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CNXBKKMAN Silver Member

CNXBKKMAN

Posted
Posted

Here is the small reservoir behind the 700 year stadium. I cycle around here about two times a week all year round. This photo was taken on 11th Nov 2014. Its full. Through 2015 the level was dropping even during the rainy season which wasn't very wet.

post-113867-0-84007800-1457940032_thumb.

I took this photo yesterday 13th Mar 2016. There is not much water left. The water can only be pumped out now. When the rainy season arrives if its anything like the last couple of years the empty reservoirs won't refill at all. So fingers crossed this year it will be a wet one!

post-113867-0-32433100-1457940604_thumb.

This was 12 Feb 2016. post-113867-0-35391900-1457940871_thumb.

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JaseTheBass Explorer Member

JaseTheBass

Posted
Posted

Logically there will be measures put in place, studies done and maybe an Israeli irrigation expert called in.

However realistically I can see there being a certain monk or temple that will be good at rain predictions and water divining.

facepalm.gif

Just in the last week a number of people have mentioned how many monks did a New year blessing in a huge number of places etc etc. so therefore how good next year will be. I can see good bits in Buddhism but sometimes you do have to wonder.facepalm.gif

Thais really are the eternal optimists.

Not hat I have any use for the man but Thaksin did call in the Israeli water experts only to have their recommendations ignored by the next government he owned. Maybe those plans are in a file some where. They are among the best in the world at water management. I know Yingluck turned down an offer of help from the Netherlands also experts.

Going to return to read the rest of the posts and see if any of the people who have been here for many years have experienced it. I have seen 100 year old picture of the Ping under the Nawarat bridge almost dry.

If I remember correctly, the Dutch experts concluded that the system in place around Bangkok was more than capable of dealing with the amount of flood water experienced in late 2011 but no one had told Thailand about the concept of maintenance.
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LivinLOS Star Member

LivinLOS

Posted
Posted

Maybe good to note that this is for water network maintenance, not drought related.

in the San Sai / Mae Jo area.

And that Chiang Mai Citylife apparently has been shut off too.. from Google. Because it has nothing to do with dams either:

The term “step test” is used when a measurement zone (DMA) is shut off into several

sub-areas and the flow rate monitored in real time. This kind of pre-location is usually

performed at night, at the time when the flow rate is expected to be at its lowest. This

minimises any fluctuations in the rate due to consumers.

If there is a leak within a sub-area, the flow drops disproportionately to the other

areas and looks like a step when displayed graphically. This method is widely used in

the United Kingdom. It is aptly called a “step test”.

In defense of Citylife though, when k. Pim is at the wheel the information is a lot better.

Such as in this article. Where it is made clear that drought will affect agriculture (and certain isolated areas) but not the city water supply.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citylife-articles/keeping-us-all-watered-meet-the-director-of-the-chiang-mai-irrigation-department/

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/water-turned-off-wang-sing-kham-area-march-16/

More maintenance..

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CNXBKKMAN Silver Member

CNXBKKMAN

Posted
Posted

I was at reservoir at the back of the 700 year stadium yesterday. Over the past couple of weeks a backhoe has been at work laying a large pipe to the reservoir. I assumed that was to enable the last of the water to be taken out. Yesterday a large pump had been set up outside and was working. When i got inside the reservoir and had a look the pump was actually pumping water into the reservoir not taking it out. I know nothing of water management but this must be right thing to do?

post-113867-0-89580900-1458549433_thumb.

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LivinLOS Star Member

LivinLOS

Posted
Posted

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/water-sprayers-moved-to-chiang-mai-zoo/

The current smog crisis and heatwave this weekend has had an effect on the animal’s health, and spraying water is believed to help lower temperatures and dissipate smog.

One of the machines used is often seen at Tha Phae Gate and Three Kings Monument, spraying water to help reduce smog in those areas.

The zoo will be sprayed for the remainder of the smog season.

and same day..

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/water-turned-off-areas-march-22/

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kaptainrob Silver Member

kaptainrob

Posted
Posted

Maybe good to note that this is for water network maintenance, not drought related.

in the San Sai / Mae Jo area.

And that Chiang Mai Citylife apparently has been shut off too.. from Google. Because it has nothing to do with dams either:

The term step test is used when a measurement zone (DMA) is shut off into several

sub-areas and the flow rate monitored in real time. This kind of pre-location is usually

performed at night, at the time when the flow rate is expected to be at its lowest. This

minimises any fluctuations in the rate due to consumers.

If there is a leak within a sub-area, the flow drops disproportionately to the other

areas and looks like a step when displayed graphically. This method is widely used in

the United Kingdom. It is aptly called a step test.

In defense of Citylife though, when k. Pim is at the wheel the information is a lot better.

Such as in this article. Where it is made clear that drought will affect agriculture (and certain isolated areas) but not the city water supply.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citylife-articles/keeping-us-all-watered-meet-the-director-of-the-chiang-mai-irrigation-department/

I agree its claimed as being testing and not drought related.. Tho my BS filter does start ringing a little and wondering if the 'flow related' tests are not drought related flow issues..

Your BS Filter may need a back wash. 555

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