Handle with care: Hospital care for foreigners without travel insurance

[LarryLEB]

... in the 13 years that I have been here I repeatedly see people WITH health cover who are asked for lots of money in the hospital because the insurance company will not pay. In fact I have yet to EVER hear of a case where a serious matter does not end up with the holder of a Thai medical insurance having to pay up a percentage.

In October 2011, my Thai medical insurance paid for ALL of the expenses related to my emergency appendectomy = 140,000Baht. Immediately prior to this surgery, the private hospital decided to do a ctscan. While I didn't think that the ctscan was necessary, I did not dispute their decision. The Thai insurance company did not dispute this decision either, nor did the company dispute ANY of the charges.

NOW, you HAVE HEARD of a case where a serious matter did not involve the insured having to pay anything.

[Lannig]

Brings back painful memories of me driving a (farang) friend suffering from a heart attack to the Bangkok-Pattaya hospital while the two of us were having a nice week-end there.

They would not even take him to the ER room until I handed my own credit card for them to take a printout (he didn't have a health insurance, at least not one that could be used apart from in a given govt hospital in BKK).

[Rayfish]

I always pay and expect to pay when I need Hospital treatment in Thailand . The cost is always very reasonable. The service is excellent with modern equipment and competent and respectful people. The Insurance model and mindset will destroy this fair way of life as it has done in the USA . Pay your way in Thailand,it not free,but a reasonable evolution of human medical care . To expect free Medical care in Thailand is irresponsible.

[tonray]

like for education. clean air , potable water, even food ......medical care, hospital, doctors assistance and medecine should be a human right and should be free for all of us in this planet......our taxes should be employed first for these kind of vital maters.....!

How much tax have you paid into the Thai system to entitle you to this 'human right' ?

Exactly ... less than 10% of the Thai population pay any real taxes, at most some purchase tax at bigger shops. Same with all tourists and most long stay foreigners. Little or zero tax paid to local or central government.

Human rights .... yeh right ... laudable comment ... now back to real world reality ..

back to the reality, in france in my country ...health is free for all poors .....expats or not, whites, blacks, indians, thais included, even indecent, or criminals....so you should travel or read a bit more and know what others do as good and real thing for the others....against stupid and crazy capitalism there is socialisme...and i am proud to be part of those who think that health should be free for everybody even for those who dont think so, .and this has nothing to do with if i pay taxes in thailand or not... some here in this forum as usual think that money is the only solution for everything, ......guess what.....insurance is one of the biggest robery invented. it is only business.....when you have a cancer or aid or other illness , go and try to get insured...man...health insurance is made for healthy people who are afraid to get sick. but not for the sick ones...conclusion.....should we let die all of those who have no work or dont have the chance to have money like you do or you think you do?....go to sleep, think about it.....and have a nightmare!

Except that the French economy is largely kept afloat by those stupid and crazy capitalists in Germany...

If things are so good in France, why stay in Thailand ?

[Farang99]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Not available after 65 if memory serves.

Nor if you have any pre-existing health problems.

[tonray]

Nor if you have any pre-existing health problems.

You are excluded from coverage for those specific items...but other things are covered. for example a person with existing heart disease can still get treatment paid for if they find themselves with cancer.

[thaiduncankk]

Nor if you have any pre-existing health problems.

You are excluded from coverage for those specific items...but other things are covered. for example a person with existing heart disease can still get treatment paid for if they find themselves with cancer.

Yes, but surely for someone with existing heart disease would make that his priority, before the chance that he might get cancer ?

I have asthma, and nearly all my hospital visits have been asthma related. If anything more serious happens, I can almost certainly cover it, in a government hospital. But I cannot see the point, at 55 years of age, to throw, say, 30,000 baht to an insurance company every year, on the off chance I get it.

I know there is a chance, but there is also a chance I could live 30 or more years without a problem.

[jpinx]

Managing the health/medical risk is a very personal decision but can not be made in the absence of the information which the OP provided. Whether someone has health insurance or not is irrelevant, the hospital must be paid and the OP gave very useful information about what is available at government hospitals. Combined with the information given by the more useful posters here about their experiences in private hospitals, there is now a chance for any individual to make an informed decision about how they will manage their health/medical risk.

Rhetoric regarding the "need" for insurance is unhelpful and from it's volume suggests a fair amount of guilt on the posters part. The thing that does need addressing is the "it won't happen to me" style of thinking, which leads to the other kind of thread that we see here from time to time, about some individual who has made NO plan and gets caught out by hospital bills.

It doesn't not matter what your personal medical risk plan is -- we're all in different situations, but don't try to cuff it without a plan.

[chiang mai]

Expats that can`t afford medical insurance or don`t have enough cash reserves for a rainy day shouldn`t be in Thailand or at least be prepared to die if not able a pay for their medical. There is much more to living in Thailand then just having the visa money and scraping by making ends meet.

Having cash reserves for treatment at a Government hospital is a different ball game to a private hospital.

One is affordable to some people, the other one, in a serious situation, could be a problem.

Treatments at government hospitals has it`s limitations, the same as the Thai 30 baht scheme. They mostly dish out the cheapest drugs and lack the facilities of the upmarket private hospitals.

Totally incorrect:

Provincial hospitals have all the modern technology any hospital could ever want, the single PET scanner in Chiang Mai is located at the government hospital.

[MaeJoMTB]

Depends what country you come from.

Americans love buying insurance,

Brazilians never insure for anything.

Most other countries citizens are somewhere between these two extremes.

I have accident insurance, but nothing else.

When god calls, I will come.

[teambum]

420mil baht 30 mil tourists 14 baht each? Too expensive?

[sawadee1947]

AIA go up to 70

.................and then what?

then it's time to say good bye

That's not quite correct. My policy with them expires when I turn 80 but I had to take it out before I turned 65. If I kick off before then my missus gets B1million life cover.

ok, I'm wrong. But turning 80 they expect you to die? In fact older than 80 there might come some health problems which they don't like to pay for. So what for you got your insurance then if you can't use it when needed?

[Liquorice]

... in the 13 years that I have been here I repeatedly see people WITH health cover who are asked for lots of money in the hospital because the insurance company will not pay. In fact I have yet to EVER hear of a case where a serious matter does not end up with the holder of a Thai medical insurance having to pay up a percentage.

In October 2011, my Thai medical insurance paid for ALL of the expenses related to my emergency appendectomy = 140,000Baht. Immediately prior to this surgery, the private hospital decided to do a ctscan. While I didn't think that the ctscan was necessary, I did not dispute their decision. The Thai insurance company did not dispute this decision either, nor did the company dispute ANY of the charges.

NOW, you HAVE HEARD of a case where a serious matter did not involve the insured having to pay anything.

140,000 was a scam!

I also had an emergency appendectomy at a Private Hospital. Tests and CT scan prior to the operation, then 4 days aftercare in a private room, medication, food, excellent care. Total bill 42,000 baht.

I later found out, I could have had the same operation by the same surgeon at the local government hospital, private room, for 18,000 baht.

I thought I'd been screwed, but your Insurers were raped.

Little wonder Medical Insurance is becoming more and more expensive.

[Balance]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Insurance is at the heart of the issue here.

To me a foreigner who has problems getting insurance here is not automatically entitled to free medical treatment.

Yes, health insurance for tourists and expats is a very old thread, but that does not mean the problem has gone away. The government said last year that they would institute an insurance tax on arriving tourists who could not show proof of travel insurance. In the U.S., most every health insurance policy has a rider that covers emergency care overseas. Separate travel insurance is not expensive, but getting the billing done here can be a problem. A lot of people cannot cough up the cash while traveling to pay for services and believe that if they have insurance, the hospital should bill the insurance company.

The Expat problem is both simpler and more difficult to solve. The simple part is that Thailand can simply offer insurance to resident aliens along the line of the existing Gold Card for Civil Servants. Direct deposit from a bank could pay for it, as I now pay for my AIA policy. The more difficult part is that the Government is the entitiy that has to do it and that is the problematic part given the byzantine-like bureaucracy and concomitant politics. Perhaps Section 44 could help?

Edited January 7, 2016 by Balance

[stevenl]

<snip>

The Expat problem is both simpler and more difficult to solve. The simple part is that Thailand can simply offer insurance to resident aliens along the line of the existing Gold Card for Civil Servants. Direct deposit from a bank could pay for it, as I now pay for my AIA policy. The more difficult part is that the Government is the entitiy that has to do it and that is the problematic part given the byzantine-like bureaucracy and concomitant politics. Perhaps Section 44 could help?

The problem is that there would be a huge anti selection problem. With the general expat population being relatively old the premium would have to be relatively high to be cost effective. And high premiums mean commercial institutions will be able to offer lower premiums to the good risks, even further increasing the required premium income for the government insurance to be cost effective.

The only solution would be a compulsory insurance, but there are many practical problems with that.

So I don't see something like this happening in the near future.

[Si Thea01]

Sawadee 1947

No, I don't think they expect me to die at 80, i might well fall off the perch well before that but if I am lucky enough to live till then, then I have enough money put aside to meet any costs if they arise. It's called planned retirement and if that is their business model, then I have to accept it. I think it's reasonable. I have actually used it 5 times in the past two years, so yes, I used it when it was needed.

[tom21]

when I visited Thailand as a tourist I had travel insurance. when I came here to live I went to look at taking health insurance. I was 62 and only a few would accept me. I looked at the policy and I was covered for very little and a excess I would of had to pay was high ,so I decided to not worry about it. 8 years later I still think it was the right decision . at home I have shares in health insurance and private hospitals and they are good investments so they not there for the good of there customers

[chuang]

So they want free medical but complain about paying a few extra bahts for visiting parks etc etc...

[dageurreotype]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Don't worry. As soon as they're unable to find an Insurance Card (All insurance companies provide them), you're dumped at the local slaughterhouse anyway.

[dageurreotype]

Travel insurance is cheap....

Hmm. Bearing in mind the cost of insurance here, and that we are all deemed perpetual tourists anyway, would this be a feasible option?

[dageurreotype]

Travel insurance is for travellers, so its OK for tourists but will not cover expats or typically anyone who leaves their home country for more than 3 months .

Proper medical cover is expansive here, and in the 13 years that I have been here I repeatedly see people WITH health cover who are asked for lots of money in the hospital because the insurance company will not pay. In fact I have yet to EVER hear of a case where a serious matter does not end up with the holder of a Thai medical insurance having to pay up a percentage. Often because the hospital does stuff that the insurance feels is not necessary or because the room was to a higher standard than the insurance will pay (hospitals often lie and says cheaper rooms are unavailable).

The Thai private hospital scams can sting any of us at any time, be aware.

Having said that, even some insurance is better then none.

Bugger I have basic Thai health insurance, given the horror stories of any and all insurance companies here not paying out. A mix of basic and self funding my personal choice, as agreed, any insurance is better than none.

[dageurreotype]

AIA go up to 70

.................and then what?

You do what the Inuits (Eskimos) do and go sit on an ice flow and wait for a polar bear. Or here, choose a spot in Khao Yai Park and hope they haven't sold all the remaining tigers to China

[Kwasaki]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Not available after 65 if memory serves.

Lived here 10+ years and have recently acquired health insurance at 68 in 2015 but cannot claim on it for 1 year, l'm 69 this year.

[dageurreotype]

What about retired/elderly expats who live here, but can not afford the extortionate price of private medical insurance?

Aye, and there's the rub! Here, we are perpetual 'tourists' no matter what visa you have, your having to apply for 'An Extension Of Stay' each and every year ad infinitum, together with having to report to Immigration every 90 days, should give you a clue. However, we don't spend the required time in our home countries to be able to apply for Tourist/Travel Insurance. We're stuffed

Edited January 7, 2016 by dageurreotype

[Kwasaki]

What about retired/elderly expats who live here, but can not afford the extortionate price of private medical insurance?

Aye, and there's the rub! Here, we are perpetual 'tourists' no matter what visa you have, your having to apply for 'An Extension Of Stay' each and every year ad infinitum, together with having to report to Immigration every 90 days, should give you a clue. However, we don't spend the required time in our home countries to be able to apply for Tourist/Travel Insurance. We're stuffed

Not true !!! help is here in Thailand if you want.

[tonray]

Nor if you have any pre-existing health problems.

You are excluded from coverage for those specific items...but other things are covered. for example a person with existing heart disease can still get treatment paid for if they find themselves with cancer.

Yes, but surely for someone with existing heart disease would make that his priority, before the chance that he might get cancer ?

I have asthma, and nearly all my hospital visits have been asthma related. If anything more serious happens, I can almost certainly cover it, in a government hospital. But I cannot see the point, at 55 years of age, to throw, say, 30,000 baht to an insurance company every year, on the off chance I get it.

I know there is a chance, but there is also a chance I could live 30 or more years without a problem.

That's the whole point of insurance..not to pay for existing illnesses...but to cover the ones you don't know about yet .Good luck with your plan...but the logic is flawed.

[dageurreotype]

What about retired/elderly expats who live here, but can not afford the extortionate price of private medical insurance?

Aye, and there's the rub! Here, we are perpetual 'tourists' no matter what visa you have, your having to apply for 'An Extension Of Stay' each and every year ad infinitum, together with having to report to Immigration every 90 days, should give you a clue. However, we don't spend the required time in our home countries to be able to apply for Tourist/Travel Insurance. We're stuffed

Not true !!! help is here in Thailand if you want.

[Kwasaki]

What about retired/elderly expats who live here, but can not afford the extortionate price of private medical insurance?

Aye, and there's the rub! Here, we are perpetual 'tourists' no matter what visa you have, your having to apply for 'An Extension Of Stay' each and every year ad infinitum, together with having to report to Immigration every 90 days, should give you a clue. However, we don't spend the required time in our home countries to be able to apply for Tourist/Travel Insurance. We're stuffed

Not true !!! help is here in Thailand if you want.

Post #143

[Bill Miller]

Only tourist??? How about retirees not qualified for health insurance?

For sure. I have multiple issues which would facilitate any insurance shyster claiming "Pre-existing condition.... denied!"

I would like a bare bones policy which covers me if I get run down by a motorbike taxi, etc.

Regular health care I will take my chances with a public hospital, and pay the best that I can.

[jpinx]

You claim to have health insurance at 68, but what does it cover, what is excluded and what was the premium?