The difference between Shi'a and Sunni explained

[webfact]

The difference between Shi'a and Sunni explained



PARIS: -- With Arab world conflicts so often making headlines, the terms Shia and Sunni – the two main branches of Islam – are now familiar to many non-Muslims following world news, even if the characteristics that distinguish one from the other remain unclear. Here we look at the history of the two sects of Islam, their differences and the distribution of their followers across the world.

The Shia (sometimes written Shi’ite) movement within Islam has political origins; after the death of the Prophet Muhammed in AD 632, the founders of the Shia sect (who are collectively known as Shi’a) wanted power to pass to the Prophet’s son-in-law and cousin, Ali, and then to his male successors. Over the centuries that followed, religious differences developed between Shi’a and non-Shi’a Muslims alongside the initial political distinctions. The Shi’a – who account for around 10-13% of the world’s estimated 1,6 billion Muslim believers – acknowledge Ali as the divinely appointed Caliph (ruler of the nation of Islam) and his successors as Imams, who are blessed with divine knowledge.

Muhammad didn’t appoint his successor definitively and in the wake of his death the community of Arabic tribes he had converted to Islam a short time before, drifted to the edge of collapse.

Muhammad’s followers hastily appointed his successor as Caliph themselves, chosing his father- in-law, who also happened to be among his closest friends, Abu Bakr.

According to some Shia sources, many Muslims believed Muhammad had appointed Ali, the husband of his daughter, as his successor. The division started at around this moment of history- those who backed Ali against Abu Bakr became the Shi’a. The name itself comes from the Arabic word sía, which means ’party’ or ’successors’, referring to the first successors of Ali, namely the ’party of Ali’ or ’síat Ali’.

As it transpired Ali was selected to be the fourth Caliph, between AD 656 and AD 661. The division in Islam crystallised when Ali’s son, Hussein, was killed in AD 680 in Karbala, Iraq by the ruling Caliph’s troops. After Hussein’s killing, the Sunni Caliphs seized and consolidated their political power, leaving the Shi’a marginalised.

According to the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life, in most countries in the Middle-East, at least 40% of Sunnis don’t consider Shi’a to be real Muslims; meanwhile, among Shi’a criticism of Sunnis is sometimes an accusation that Sunni dogmatism can be a fertile breeding ground for Islamic extremist.

Differences in religious practices

Aside the fact that Shi’a pray three times a day and Sunnis five times, there are also differences between Shi’a and Sunni perception of Islam. Both branches are based on the teachings of the holy Quran, with the second most important source being the Sunnah, the exemplary way of life for Muslims as defined by both the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammed, known as Hadith. Shi’a Muslims also consider the words of the imams as Hadith.

One of the most important differences between the ideology of the two sects is that the Shi’a consider Imams to be divine and in possession of spiritual authority, a mediator between Allah and the believers. For Shi’a, the Imam is not simply the deputy of the Prophet, but his representative on Earth. Thus the Shi’a do not only make their pilgrimage (Hajj) to Mecca, but also to the tombs of 11 of the 12 Imams, who are considered saints (the 12th Imam, Mehdi, is considered ‘hidden’ or disappeared.

Sunni Muslims do not attach such reverence to an Imam and in Sunni Islam the term Imam refers to a contemporary mosque or Muslim community leader.

The five pillars of Islam – the declaration of Faith, Prayer, Fasting, Charity and Pilgrimage – while shared between Shi’a and Sunni, are represented differently in the Shi’a faith: Shi’a Islam, as well as having five principal pillars different to those of Sunnis, also has 10 ancillaries, which incorporate the ideas expressed in the five Sunni pillars.

The five principal Shi’a pillars are Tawhid (the Oneness of God), Nubuwwah (Prophethood), Resurrection, Divine Justice and Imamah (belief in the political and spiritual supremacy of the Prophet’s successors). For the 10 ancillaries, the Shi’a faith includes Prayer, Fasting, Charity and Pilgrimage, but adds Khums (the tax of one-fifth), Enjoining what is Just, Forbidding what is Evil, Tawallá (loving what is Good) and Tabarra (disassociation with those who oppose Good and those who caused harm to Islam). Another ancillary in Shi’a Islam is Jihad, the meaning of which continues to be debated by Islamic scholars. Traditionally Jihad is composed of two elements: an inner struggle with oneself to maintain the way of God and an outer struggle against Islam’s enemies which can be either violent or non-violent.

The Shia Crescent

Most of Shi’a populations are found in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Bahrain, and make up what’s called the ’Shia crescent’ because of the shape of these territories on a map.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-01-08

[ezzra]

Shia or Sunni... two sides of the same coin, both are holding their religions and Allah as an excuse

to kill each other and many other innocents people all in the name of their twisted believes...

both put a spin and curve on what they think the worshippers should hear and know, and it

is always bad, never good, preaching to cull, kill and destroy the non believers, as if the non

believers and other religions of the world have no right to exist in this world.... what other

religion dose that???

[Gunna]

Shia or Sunni... two sides of the same coin, both are holding their religions and Allah as an excuse to kill each other and many other innocents people all in the name of their twisted believes... both put a spin and curve on what they think the worshippers should hear and know, and it is always bad, never good, preaching to cull, kill and destroy the non believers, as if the non believers and other religions of the world have no right to exist in this world.... what other religion dose that???

Spanish Inquisition ??

[emilymat]

That's pretty useful info. Thanks.

The media in general assumes we know the difference. I certainly often wondered.

[steven100]

Why don't these two groups forget about religion for a while and just get on with life and working and the family. ?????????

WHY IS IT THAT THESE CLOWNS THINK ABOUT RELIGION 24/7 .........

IF MUSLIMS JUST WOKE UP TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN PRAYING THEN THINGS WOULD BE BETTER .....

RELIGION IS STUPID ....... JUST GO ON WITH LIFE AND THINK ABOUT FAMILY AND FRIENDS ......

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

who cares about the differences!!!

Let's talk about the similarities

They come from a religion of intolerance not peace.

They ARE pushing for world dominance.

A majority of them ARE in favor of killing infidels and those who would leave their religion.

Interesting statistics here and presented by a Muslim woman that is against radical Islam, definitely worth the watch. copy the link and share with everyone. It's an eye opener.

http://go.clarionproject.org/numbers-full-film

[nealthewheel]

Shia or Sunni... two sides of the same coin, both are holding their religions and Allah as an excuse to kill each other and many other innocents people all in the name of their twisted believes... both put a spin and curve on what they think the worshippers should hear and know, and it is always bad, never good, preaching to cull, kill and destroy the non believers, as if the non believers and other religions of the world have no right to exist in this world.... what other religion dose that???

Spanish Inquisition ??

Islam is an ideology preaching through Shiria law how to conduct ones life in this very enlightened modern age, whereas the Spanish Inquisition was perpetrated by an erroneous and ignorant sect of people (Catholic Church) who had no idea about science and only wanted to further their doctrine. Da Vinci should have gone on the rack but was only saved by his sheer genius, that is how blinkered they were! Also, this happened 400 - 600 years ago before our modern era. Islam chooses to live alongside the modern era and promote its predominantly oppressive teachings against all who do not submit to its will. The Spanish Inquisition therefore cannot be a true comparison because of the time difference. As far as I know we no longer burn people at the stake for heresy whereas Islam still use medieval practices of execution and torture for just this very crime agains its religion. One thing we should remember here is that Iran is quite isolated in the Muslim world and surrounded by its other "Muslim enemies" and a conflict of an even greater destruction is on the cards as KSA flexes its new found muscles. As Europeans we suffered the wars of religious separation as soon as the Reformation took hold for nearly 300+ years until we found a common ground and decided to live "alongside" one another. Perhaps we are about to witness the "religion" of Islam finally going through its own civil war. I wonder which side the west will back? What faith was Obama's father - Sunni or Shia??

Edited January 8, 2016 by nealthewheel

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Please stick to the topic of the thread.

[neverdie]

Why don't these two groups forget about religion for a while and just get on with life and working and the family. ?????????

WHY IS IT THAT THESE CLOWNS THINK ABOUT RELIGION 24/7 .........

IF MUSLIMS JUST WOKE UP TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN PRAYING THEN THINGS WOULD BE BETTER .....

RELIGION IS STUPID ....... JUST GO ON WITH LIFE AND THINK ABOUT FAMILY AND FRIENDS ......

......and there you go, completely rational and making full sense. You can't expect morons to follow suit, surely?

[Steely Dan]

They both formed a violent and dysfunctional relationship. I've got you babe was a catchy tune though.

[jinners]

Shia or Sunni... two sides of the same coin, both are holding their religions and Allah as an excuse to kill each other and many other innocents people all in the name of their twisted believes... both put a spin and curve on what they think the worshippers should hear and know, and it is always bad, never good, preaching to cull, kill and destroy the non believers, as if the non believers and other religions of the world have no right to exist in this world.... what other religion dose that???

Spanish Inquisition ??

Not far wrong, and both from the middle ages. Problem is Spanish inquisition is a long past religious historical group, unfortunately for the world, the other nutters are very much present day.

[DoctorB]

Amazing..still killing each other over an argument that goes back 1,400 years.

And this is billed as "a religion of peace"????

[chilli42]

who cares about the differences!!!

Let's talk about the similarities

They come from a religion of intolerance not peace.

They ARE pushing for world dominance.

A majority of them ARE in favor of killing infidels and those who would leave their religion.

Interesting statistics here and presented by a Muslim woman that is against radical Islam, definitely worth the watch. copy the link and share with everyone. It's an eye opener.

http://go.clarionproject.org/numbers-full-film

Excellent! "Abandoning our belief in truth and human rights in favor of political correctness" ... well said.

[Scott]

PLEASE READ THE OP. The thread is not about US politics. It is about the differences between two major factions of Islam.

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

More posts removed.

[cooked]

I keep copying / pasting this:Speaking at Kanal D TV”s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term “moderate Islam”, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, “˜These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”

Source: Milliyet, Turkey, August 21, 2007

That, and the fact that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, is all you need to know. all you need to know.

[piersbeckett]

Why don't these two groups forget about religion for a while and just get on with life and working and the family. ?????????

WHY IS IT THAT THESE CLOWNS THINK ABOUT RELIGION 24/7 .........

IF MUSLIMS JUST WOKE UP TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN PRAYING THEN THINGS WOULD BE BETTER .....

RELIGION IS STUPID ....... JUST GO ON WITH LIFE AND THINK ABOUT FAMILY AND FRIENDS ......

It can only be because it gets them all these things, it 'provides'; indoctrination alone although very powerful, won't do it and the ones that see through it are silenced by their own fear of the penalties for leaving but I, personally, however, still find it incredible that the majority of women of both groups haven't got together yet and forced things to change by withdrawing their services until the male superiority bit and the intolerance of other faiths bit and the penalties for leaving bit are retracted.

The rub is, I suppose that there's two answers to that depending on whether or not one is a 'believer'; either it's the 'Truth' or with those parts gone, the religion would be so compromised that it would cease to exist, and if the latter were the case, it would naturally point to an obvious fear among the male leaders in contemplating the aforementioned changes.

Edited January 8, 2016 by piersbeckett

[khunken]

I keep copying / pasting this:Speaking at Kanal D TV”s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term “moderate Islam”, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, “˜These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”

Source: Milliyet, Turkey, August 21, 2007

That, and the fact that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, is all you need to know. all you need to know.

And that is total crap.

I have met and befriended many Muslims in different countries and they had very similar interests to me. They never attempted to try & convince me that their religion was better than mine (or lack thereof).

As for Erdogen, he is a liar and speaks for nobody but himself. The difference between Saudi Wahhabi Islam and that practiced in areas around Bangkok is huge. Just like the racist 'all blacks look the same' and intolerant 'all Catholics are Papists', the ignorant prefer the less brain-straining tarnishing everyone with the same brush.

Actually the Op only scratches the surface of the difference between Shia & Sunni Islam. It only mentions Shia Jihad without touching on Sunni jihad and how it can be distorted depending on who is doing the 'interpreting'. It also doesn't mention that Sunnis forbid religious images - the extremists destroy them - but the Shias don't.

Edited January 8, 2016 by khunken

[cooked]

I keep copying / pasting this:Speaking at Kanal D TV”s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term “moderate Islam”, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, “˜These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”

Source: Milliyet, Turkey, August 21, 2007

That, and the fact that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, is all you need to know. all you need to know.

And that is total crap.

I have met and befriended many Muslims in different countries and they had very similar interests to me. They never attempted to try & convince me that their religion was better than mine (or lack thereof).

As for Erdogen, he is a liar and speaks for nobody but himself. The difference between Saudi Wahhabi Islam and that practiced in areas around Bangkok is huge. Just like the racist 'all blacks look the same' and intolerant 'all Catholics are Papists', the ignorant prefer the less brain-straining tarnishing everyone with the same brush.

Actually the Op only scratches the surface of the difference between Shia & Sunni Islam. It only mentions Shia Jihad without touching on Sunni jihad and how it can be distorted depending on who is doing the 'interpreting'. It also doesn't mention that Sunnis forbid religious images - the extremists destroy them - but the Shias don't.

You really miss the point. Please don't use terms like ignorant, crap etc when you are having an argument, don't bring accusations of racism into it, it doesn't work. What you call 'moderates' are still part of a 'religion' that predicates death to non-believers, death to people that leave Islam, stoning of adulterers and all the rest of it. They don't say anything because of feared consequences and family pressures.

Polls show that more than half of Muslims in the USA want Sharia law which is not compatible with the US constitution. I too have met peaceful, nice Muslims, but they are part of the same body of belief that preaches the downfall of Western civilisation, do you remember the 'Democracy go to hell' demos in London a few years ago? Just because you met some nice educated guys does not mean that you met a typical representative of this religion of hate.

Erdogan is a liar? So are many many Muslims, that talk of a religion of peace and liberals that claim the same thing. It isn't. Try reading the Koran in a readable version, most Muslims haven't.

[khunken]

I keep copying / pasting this:Speaking at Kanal D TV”s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term “moderate Islam”, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, “˜These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”

Source: Milliyet, Turkey, August 21, 2007

That, and the fact that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, is all you need to know. all you need to know.

And that is total crap.

I have met and befriended many Muslims in different countries and they had very similar interests to me. They never attempted to try & convince me that their religion was better than mine (or lack thereof).

As for Erdogen, he is a liar and speaks for nobody but himself. The difference between Saudi Wahhabi Islam and that practiced in areas around Bangkok is huge. Just like the racist 'all blacks look the same' and intolerant 'all Catholics are Papists', the ignorant prefer the less brain-straining tarnishing everyone with the same brush.

Actually the Op only scratches the surface of the difference between Shia & Sunni Islam. It only mentions Shia Jihad without touching on Sunni jihad and how it can be distorted depending on who is doing the 'interpreting'. It also doesn't mention that Sunnis forbid religious images - the extremists destroy them - but the Shias don't.

You really miss the point. Please don't use terms like ignorant, crap etc when you are having an argument, don't bring accusations of racism into it, it doesn't work. What you call 'moderates' are still part of a 'religion' that predicates death to non-believers, death to people that leave Islam, stoning of adulterers and all the rest of it. They don't say anything because of feared consequences and family pressures.

Polls show that more than half of Muslims in the USA want Sharia law which is not compatible with the US constitution. I too have met peaceful, nice Muslims, but they are part of the same body of belief that preaches the downfall of Western civilisation, do you remember the 'Democracy go to hell' demos in London a few years ago? Just because you met some nice educated guys does not mean that you met a typical representative of this religion of hate.

Erdogan is a liar? So are many many Muslims, that talk of a religion of peace and liberals that claim the same thing. It isn't. Try reading the Koran in a readable version, most Muslims haven't.

I certainly will use terms like ignorant & hate when posters post ignorant crap and follow it up with yet more of the same.

Moderates are followers of moderate Islam which, contrary to your insinuation do not believe in the scarmongering about the 'downfall if western civilisation' - which is a right-wing-nut mantra in some empty heads. Many Muslims do not believe is the extreme version of Sharia - once again tarring all with the same brush. The are part of a religion which they don't accept as infallible - just like Catholics who use birth control.

I have read the Koran and just like many parts of the Old Testament can be interpreted in extreme or moderate ways which is why there are extremists & moderates, in fact in all religions.

Just like there are fundamentalist Christians who tout war (usually for others to fight) causing failed states and kill medics, so there are fundamentalist Muslims who agree with the extreme views you mention & I've no time for either types.

So many Muslims are liars? Yes and so are so many Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddists. But that doesn't fit your agenda.

[Mr Moo]

I keep copying / pasting this:Speaking at Kanal D TV”s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term “moderate Islam”, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, “˜These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”

Source: Milliyet, Turkey, August 21, 2007

That, and the fact that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, is all you need to know. all you need to know.

And that is total crap.

I have met and befriended many Muslims in different countries and they had very similar interests to me. They never attempted to try & convince me that their religion was better than mine (or lack thereof).

As for Erdogen, he is a liar and speaks for nobody but himself. The difference between Saudi Wahhabi Islam and that practiced in areas around Bangkok is huge. Just like the racist 'all blacks look the same' and intolerant 'all Catholics are Papists', the ignorant prefer the less brain-straining tarnishing everyone with the same brush.

Actually the Op only scratches the surface of the difference between Shia & Sunni Islam. It only mentions Shia Jihad without touching on Sunni jihad and how it can be distorted depending on who is doing the 'interpreting'. It also doesn't mention that Sunnis forbid religious images - the extremists destroy them - but the Shias don't.

You really miss the point. Please don't use terms like ignorant, crap etc when you are having an argument, don't bring accusations of racism into it, it doesn't work. What you call 'moderates' are still part of a 'religion' that predicates death to non-believers, death to people that leave Islam, stoning of adulterers and all the rest of it. They don't say anything because of feared consequences and family pressures.

Polls show that more than half of Muslims in the USA want Sharia law which is not compatible with the US constitution. I too have met peaceful, nice Muslims, but they are part of the same body of belief that preaches the downfall of Western civilisation, do you remember the 'Democracy go to hell' demos in London a few years ago? Just because you met some nice educated guys does not mean that you met a typical representative of this religion of hate.

Erdogan is a liar? So are many many Muslims, that talk of a religion of peace and liberals that claim the same thing. It isn't. Try reading the Koran in a readable version, most Muslims haven't.

I certainly will use terms like ignorant & hate when posters post ignorant crap and follow it up with yet more of the same.

Moderates are followers of moderate Islam which, contrary to your insinuation do not believe in the scarmongering about the 'downfall if western civilisation' - which is a right-wing-nut mantra in some empty heads. Many Muslims do not believe is the extreme version of Sharia - once again tarring all with the same brush. The are part of a religion which they don't accept as infallible - just like Catholics who use birth control.

I have read the Koran and just like many parts of the Old Testament can be interpreted in extreme or moderate ways which is why there are extremists & moderates, in fact in all religions.

Just like there are fundamentalist Christians who tout war (usually for others to fight) causing failed states and kill medics, so there are fundamentalist Muslims who agree with the extreme views you mention & I've no time for either types.

So many Muslims are liars? Yes and so are so many Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddists. But that doesn't fit your agenda.

Hey, any chance of a timeout guys? I need a piss and want to grab a beer before you continue with your hissyfits!

[cooked]

I keep copying / pasting this:Speaking at Kanal D TV”s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term “moderate Islam”, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, “˜These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”

Source: Milliyet, Turkey, August 21, 2007

That, and the fact that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, is all you need to know. all you need to know.

And that is total crap.

I have met and befriended many Muslims in different countries and they had very similar interests to me. They never attempted to try & convince me that their religion was better than mine (or lack thereof).

As for Erdogen, he is a liar and speaks for nobody but himself. The difference between Saudi Wahhabi Islam and that practiced in areas around Bangkok is huge. Just like the racist 'all blacks look the same' and intolerant 'all Catholics are Papists', the ignorant prefer the less brain-straining tarnishing everyone with the same brush.

Actually the Op only scratches the surface of the difference between Shia & Sunni Islam. It only mentions Shia Jihad without touching on Sunni jihad and how it can be distorted depending on who is doing the 'interpreting'. It also doesn't mention that Sunnis forbid religious images - the extremists destroy them - but the Shias don't.

You really miss the point. Please don't use terms like ignorant, crap etc when you are having an argument, don't bring accusations of racism into it, it doesn't work. What you call 'moderates' are still part of a 'religion' that predicates death to non-believers, death to people that leave Islam, stoning of adulterers and all the rest of it. They don't say anything because of feared consequences and family pressures.

Polls show that more than half of Muslims in the USA want Sharia law which is not compatible with the US constitution. I too have met peaceful, nice Muslims, but they are part of the same body of belief that preaches the downfall of Western civilisation, do you remember the 'Democracy go to hell' demos in London a few years ago? Just because you met some nice educated guys does not mean that you met a typical representative of this religion of hate.

Erdogan is a liar? So are many many Muslims, that talk of a religion of peace and liberals that claim the same thing. It isn't. Try reading the Koran in a readable version, most Muslims haven't.

I certainly will use terms like ignorant & hate when posters post ignorant crap and follow it up with yet more of the same.

Moderates are followers of moderate Islam which, contrary to your insinuation do not believe in the scarmongering about the 'downfall if western civilisation' - which is a right-wing-nut mantra in some empty heads. Many Muslims do not believe is the extreme version of Sharia - once again tarring all with the same brush. The are part of a religion which they don't accept as infallible - just like Catholics who use birth control.

I have read the Koran and just like many parts of the Old Testament can be interpreted in extreme or moderate ways which is why there are extremists & moderates, in fact in all religions.

Just like there are fundamentalist Christians who tout war (usually for others to fight) causing failed states and kill medics, so there are fundamentalist Muslims who agree with the extreme views you mention & I've no time for either types.

So many Muslims are liars? Yes and so are so many Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddists. But that doesn't fit your agenda.

So you never heard of the concept of Taqqiya? It is part of Islam, and apparently you missed that bit in the Haddiths. I seriously doubt that you read the Koran.

[organic]

Shia or Sunni... two sides of the same coin, both are holding their religions and Allah as an excuse

to kill each other and many other innocents people all in the name of their twisted believes...

both put a spin and curve on what they think the worshippers should hear and know, and it

is always bad, never good, preaching to cull, kill and destroy the non believers, as if the non

believers and other religions of the world have no right to exist in this world.... what other

religion dose that???

Just about all of them when they get mixed up in the affairs of state. A very good example is all the bloodshed and repression that greeted Protestantism's creation in Europe.

In the case of Sunni vs Shia, the Saudi monarchy use Wahhabism (an extreme form of Sunni Islam that's the basis of Al Qaeda, its splitoff faction, Isis, and the Taliban) as a prop, and have been exporting it relentlessly for about 20 years to appease its supporters. Imagine their horror when Khomeini took over Iran and instituted a theocracy without a monarchy. That we've ended up with proxy wars between them in Iraq, Syria, Yemen and others seems hardly surprising.

[khunken]

And that is total crap.

I have met and befriended many Muslims in different countries and they had very similar interests to me. They never attempted to try & convince me that their religion was better than mine (or lack thereof).

As for Erdogen, he is a liar and speaks for nobody but himself. The difference between Saudi Wahhabi Islam and that practiced in areas around Bangkok is huge. Just like the racist 'all blacks look the same' and intolerant 'all Catholics are Papists', the ignorant prefer the less brain-straining tarnishing everyone with the same brush.

Actually the Op only scratches the surface of the difference between Shia & Sunni Islam. It only mentions Shia Jihad without touching on Sunni jihad and how it can be distorted depending on who is doing the 'interpreting'. It also doesn't mention that Sunnis forbid religious images - the extremists destroy them - but the Shias don't.

You really miss the point. Please don't use terms like ignorant, crap etc when you are having an argument, don't bring accusations of racism into it, it doesn't work. What you call 'moderates' are still part of a 'religion' that predicates death to non-believers, death to people that leave Islam, stoning of adulterers and all the rest of it. They don't say anything because of feared consequences and family pressures.

Polls show that more than half of Muslims in the USA want Sharia law which is not compatible with the US constitution. I too have met peaceful, nice Muslims, but they are part of the same body of belief that preaches the downfall of Western civilisation, do you remember the 'Democracy go to hell' demos in London a few years ago? Just because you met some nice educated guys does not mean that you met a typical representative of this religion of hate.

Erdogan is a liar? So are many many Muslims, that talk of a religion of peace and liberals that claim the same thing. It isn't. Try reading the Koran in a readable version, most Muslims haven't.

I certainly will use terms like ignorant & hate when posters post ignorant crap and follow it up with yet more of the same.

Moderates are followers of moderate Islam which, contrary to your insinuation do not believe in the scarmongering about the 'downfall if western civilisation' - which is a right-wing-nut mantra in some empty heads. Many Muslims do not believe is the extreme version of Sharia - once again tarring all with the same brush. The are part of a religion which they don't accept as infallible - just like Catholics who use birth control.

I have read the Koran and just like many parts of the Old Testament can be interpreted in extreme or moderate ways which is why there are extremists & moderates, in fact in all religions.

Just like there are fundamentalist Christians who tout war (usually for others to fight) causing failed states and kill medics, so there are fundamentalist Muslims who agree with the extreme views you mention & I've no time for either types.

So many Muslims are liars? Yes and so are so many Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddists. But that doesn't fit your agenda.

So you never heard of the concept of Taqqiya? It is part of Islam, and apparently you missed that bit in the Haddiths. I seriously doubt that you read the Koran.

I seriously doubt you know much about Islam. I read the Koran around 35 years ago so I don't remember it word for word. Yes, I've heard of Taqqiya which is akin to being allowed to lie under extreme duress.

It's irrelevant as any person of any religion can be allowed to lie under torture (e.g. waterboarding) or with a gun, virtual or real, pointing at them. What's not allowed in any religion is lying for barefaced gain - for example WMD in Iraq.

That's enough for me - I've seen sufficient twisted comments on Islam for one day.

[Rancid]

All religions are interpreted by the clergy, as such the religion is what they say it is. All offer a stairway to heaven either through subservient living or donating money, objective thought is not welcomed. Same with Islam, two groups in a power play for control. Sounds to me like offering up a choice similar to communism or fascism, both unpalatable, but all that's on the menu.

[ozyjon]

I don't care,, it's all shi'te to me anyway

Gadaffi warned Blair about this years ago,,

did anyone listen, does anyone care, it's

all about greed and money, but what about

the innocent children, and people talk about

declining tourist numbers, 2008 all over again.

[arjunadawn]

Shia or Sunni... two sides of the same coin, both are holding their religions and Allah as an excuse to kill each other and many other innocents people all in the name of their twisted believes... both put a spin and curve on what they think the worshippers should hear and know, and it is always bad, never good, preaching to cull, kill and destroy the non believers, as if the non believers and other religions of the world have no right to exist in this world.... what other religion dose that???

Spanish Inquisition ??

Thank you for placing a question mark after "Spanish Inquisition." It is not even remotely close. The inquisition killed some thousands and was in many regards itself a result of the Reconquest-- the repelling muslim invaders in Spain. With regard to the point ezzra raises above the conservative... very conservative estimate places those dead from sunni/shia islamic violence at 100,000,000. Some sources place 100-200,000,000 million dead in the subcontinent alone. Hardly a comparison. If moral equivalency intrigues you a better estimate of equalizing militant brutality would be the Spanish Inquisition and the 9/11 attacks; in numbers only.

The article did a fair job of presenting a very old and complex issue. However, I think it failed in comparing and contrasting- necessary to explain "the difference." A good effort was made for shia positions but then no argument really offered for why the sunni thought/acted so. In any event, only a fool would ever think this poisoned well is drinkable. This intractable issue is not remotely fixable as long as people believe a Man in the Clouds authorizes them to act out the God's Will upon others. This problem/threat can only ever be managed and it cannot be manged by weakness or negotiation; both are only opportunity for a militant expansionist ideology. Regardless of the issues sunni shia have one thing they agree upon and that is you are their first enemy!

[cantplay]

The simplest way to look at it is from an evolutionary perspective (the weak- strong scenario).

The whole thing is such nonsense. Luckily we're on the side with the heavy weaponry

Edited January 8, 2016 by cantplay

[papayasalad]

one day in the USA , I found a Coran on the living table of a guy. in English.

I opened it by curiosity , all I read was how to punish, or kill people. I turned the page and same on every pages. stoning, cutting this and that member,... etc .

my god, I was horrified by this book. how people can read and believe this holy book is out of me.?

[tonglen]

They have great food and hate each other.

[arjunadawn]

Shia or Sunni... two sides of the same coin, both are holding their religions and Allah as an excuse

to kill each other and many other innocents people all in the name of their twisted believes...

both put a spin and curve on what they think the worshippers should hear and know, and it

is always bad, never good, preaching to cull, kill and destroy the non believers, as if the non

believers and other religions of the world have no right to exist in this world.... what other

religion dose that???

The best of the goyim deserves to have his head crushed like a snake.

A baby of no less than three years and a day may be used for sex by a rabbi as it is like a finger being poked into the eye.

An unnatural or pervesDesignated bond maids . . .

Judaism taken care of.

Dash the young infant's heads against a wall.

Jobe offering his daughters for rape in Soddom.

Take the women and girls for your booty.

Christianity.

You're either incredibly stupid, ignorant or a liar. Or, you're a mixture of all three.

The question offered was "What other religion does that?" The post above provided information that is factually unrelated to the present (and in the case of the christian indictment, theologically incorrect). This then is an oversight or a lie. It hardly appears an oversight. A poster should feel ashamed to suggest someone is "incredibly stupid, ignorant or a liar."

It does not take a sleuth to crawl through history and assemble disagreeable or embarrassing claims or sayings from religions or peoples. However, it takes some caliber of intellect to realize what is applicable in the modern world; clearly, what is even part of the modern world. Judeochristianty can't withstand even a topical comparison when compared to islam for the purposes you cite above. Why? Because the practices you suggest have been ancient since Baal (Valley of Hinom) or otherwise eclipsed by the last covenant with the Christ (in this regard you are wrong as well- Christ came with a new dispensation and the Sodom story you cite is rendered to Christians historical. The Christians are thus not even represented by your fallacy of false analogy. In fact, the post above reminds me of a drunk man flailing his hands at imaginary attackers, until he inevitably slips in his own puke.

Sunni/Shia islamic injunctions apply to the future and the prophet is declared the last to come; their book is closed. Whatever was sealed at his death is sealed as infallible for all time.The mechanics and success of the proclamations of the prophet were formed in the crucible of war in Mecca, Medina, and Mecca and the successes of islam resulted in their timeless blueprint for war, their blueprint for global supremacy (See scriptures. This is THE singular goal of every muslim and islam wholly- Islam=Submission). This became their militant ideology encased within a religion. This relatively recent religion's mandate has consistently been exercised by both the shia and the sunni for approx 1,350 years. The primary targets are the Jews that would not succumb to the prophet's request to change the direction of prayer to Jerusalem, next the other "people of the book," and lastly the pagans- Hindus, Buddhists, etc. Concurrently, they war with each other as brothers in a house. However, enter that house to make peace and you earn the wrath of both. Apologies for such affairs naturally extend into the imaginative and fictional, as the post above.

So, the post's moral equivalency argument (also) has little merit. Christians do not kill infants today. Jews do not kill infants today. In fact both appear diametrically opposed to the third which marches across the world slaughtering mindlessly, including in their own house- especially in their own house- "In the name of..." Neither Judaism or Christianity is marching across the world with militancy and intolerance, sedition and insurgency- today. I have read moral equivalency arguments related to this topic before. Some were commanding and thoughtful; the post above was neither.

Edited January 8, 2016 by arjunadawn