British man found dead on Koh Tao

[AGareth2]

water in the lungs

or

not

[bannork]

"architects"?? - you clearly know absolutely nothing about built design.....because they can and do!

These people are in their 20s, I''m not talking about safety measures to protect children which are plainly common sense....., or on second thoughts is that a term some of these tourists don't understand ? Dumb and dumber?

• Quote
• Mul

[lkv]

Sydebolle

"Also very interesting is, that the news broke out of Europe; all the links of "source" refer to European newspapers.
Anyone in charge of lifting the big Thai carpet so the issue could have (almost) be swiped under it again? Just curious."

The media in Thailand is heavily restricted. If they say the wrong thing and they upset certain people in power, they will be called in for "attitude readjustment", that's why they are keeping quiet.

asia master

"CSiLA has not posted anything for the last 23 hours..."

I'm sure they will as more relevant information comes along.

soalbundy

"It must be conspiracy month. Young people do stupid things on holiday and sometimes it ends in death"

It is conspiracy month yes, there are quite a few unexplained deaths here. Putting aside B2, that many are saying it's a sham conviction, you have young girls dying of chest infections in the same hotel owned by the initial suspects in the Hannah and David murder, you have people jumping from cliffs and then after they have fallen they apparently manage to drown themselves and you got people hanging themselves with hands behind their back.

Thanks for the advice but i would think the RTP would have done that and )if they find any) will be sending it to Bangkok for DNA testing.

Then of course we just can wait till the "experts" will claim the DNA testing was flawed and that it was actually blood from Nomsod who climbed up the booth after Luke and pushed him off.

We are no experts we just share opinions, but don't defend the RTP either. At least we are not corrupt nor do we have vested interests in that island.

apetley

"Not really. I just think it's too early to state it was categorically an accident with no witnesses, no cctv, no autopsy and no forensic results from the crime scene.

It's too early to state it was a murder either. That's why I have said in previous posts that information is limited at this stage.

Better the media than the British Embassy. They are not interested in helping their own citizens who get into trouble, or wind up dead in Thailand.

That is correct. All the embassies seem to do is and adapt to "local realities". So if the country is corrupt for example they will never go into a discussion touching that. But that is somehow understandable I guess. However, they would be of no help in a situation like this apart from suggestions about body repatriation.

Until it's verified as being genuine, the poster called Maria Miller should be ignored as being a troll.

I agree.

The [Thai] autopsy will say what the police want it to say irrespective of the results of the post mortem. That was seen clearly in the [Thai] autopsies of Hannah and David.

Yeah unfortunately that is correct.

Edited January 10, 2016 by lkv

[cumgranosalum]

"architects"?? - you clearly know absolutely nothing about built design.....because they can and do!

These people are in their 20s, I''m not talking about safety measures to protect children which are plainly common sense....., or on second thoughts is that a term some of these tourists don't understand ? Dumb and dumber?

• Quote
• Mul

So you are saying there was an age restriction on the pool based on H&S provisions!?!?!

[TPI]

I wonder what burmese they are going to blame it on??

[carter1882]

Death Island

Always sad to hear about the death of a hopeful young person on holiday in Thailand. Always makes me think about Death Island. Is is an island where, according to latest goverment statistics, there are twice as many alcohol related hospital admissions than the average for the country. Hell, the number of smoking related deaths per year are almost 300, also above the national average.

The name of this island? The Isle of Wight.

[TKDfella]

If as according to the update, this man was 'heavily drunk' he is unlikely to have made a decent dive so as to expose the head to impact on the bottom of the pool. If his head had hit the side of the pool then that would be more believable. Deliberately diving head first doesn't sound like drunk to me.

[ffaarraanngg]

The [Thai] autopsy will say what the police want it to say irrespective of the results of the post mortem. That was seen clearly in the [Thai] autopsies of Hannah and David.

But there will be an autopsy when the body returns to the UK.

But some folk don't know about that stuff........

I'm sure the Thais are aware of this since the Miller and Witheridge case.

[manarak]

Death Island strikes again

If you'd read the linked report, you will see that a pissed up young guy actually struck 'Death Island'. Well, one of it's swimming pool floors anyway, after having dove from a booth into it, lacerating his face with barbed wire on the way down. Some people shouldn't be given passports ..

I'm sorry but in my experience Thai holiday resorts make no effort at all when it comes to health and safety and the result is that stunts like this (if that IS what is was) are just to easy to do in Thailand.

there are 2 aspects to H&S here the first is to ensure the places are safe for the purpose intended - Thailand usually fails here and the second is to design facilities in such a way that horseplay and dangerous behaviour cannot be undertaken in the first place. As a holiday resort the owners/managers are fullt aware that their customers are likely to drink too much and exhibit excessive behaviour - and a such they should take measures to ensure their safety......no chance in Thailand.

My guess is that the vast majority of swimming pools and the surrounding areas would be immediately closed if they were in a European resort.

there are several things wrong with the nanny state approach:

- perfectly normal activities get banned or heavily restricted because of risks they pose to drunk or very stupid people, so everyone's freedom and fun is greatly reduced

- installations and infrastructure need heavy safety upgrades, thus raising the cost and price for everyone

- removing the general idea that one's own safety is primarily his own responsibility is not a good idea and leads to nonsense. no, a resort cannot be responsible for someone doing something very, overly stupid.

[Si Thea01]

Until it's verified as being genuine, the poster called Maria Miller should be ignored as being a troll.

I am pleased that someone else has taken a similar view. I also found it unusual that this person, who purports to be the sister of the deceased, writes in such an inflammatory manner, thus giving rise to more and more hate posts, speculation and further criticism of the police and has elected to do so on an annoymous forum. I see this person was asked to put their details on their FB page but declined to do so as the family is grieving. The reason provided for not doing so I find paltry to say the least, as they took time to raise it on TVF, yet some have appeared to accept that reasoning. I can't, seeing that they have elected to use this type of carriage service for the specific purpose of what I believe is to inflame the situation as it would be a given for it to reach more readers than they'd get if it was on FB.

Firstly, what does this person hope to achieve through this forum, all I can see is that it is greating more hysteria, with people dreaming up all sorts of conclusions. murder, conspiracies, the involvement of the so called Island mafia, various assaults, being bashed and thrown into a pool, the list goes on, I won't expand because it is there for all to see. As for them declining to list the details on FB, I find unusual to say the least, as if they were to acknowledge their bona fides in this manner, then maybe one could find that the post is genuine but then again people are able to put up fake FB pages, aren't they? At this time, I am with you on the troll situation.

So this person gives out a email address, so what, proves absolutely nothing, does not substantiate for one minute that they are who they say they are. Anyone can have numerous email addresses but because they say this is who they it is being accepted by many. After having read numerous past posts, mainly from those people who want to denegrate Thailand, its people, the police, the laws, it strikes me as bearing a similar hate stirring message with multiple allegations of suspicion and wrong doings.

For many posters to go into overdrive and posting their infantile guesses, rumours and innuendos and giving out sympathic messages not knowing who they are dealing with just shows how gullible some can be. If I am criticised for being callous, then so be it but until this person can prove who they are and that they are the real deal, I cannot accept that in such a time of grief, that some one would come onto an anonymous forum, with what I believe is an attempt to inflame an already worsening situation. If I am proved to be wrong then I will be the first to appologise.

One other matter also caught my eye in this person's response to a poster, who initially advised that they should contact Jonathan Head. Now, I do not know if it was a Fraudian Slip but they referred to him as Richard Head. We all know what this means in the terms of general slang. May mean nothing but there is a huge difference between the two christian names.

[mcfish]

Magic mushroomed shakes don't kill people..

Don't they end up believing they can fly?

[Krenjai]

Even though Im deeply suspicious as the murderers and police on Koh Tao must now think they are fireproof, I must admit that accidental death as claimed is feasible. Believe me, after seeing the photo, the DJ booth roof in the photo would be crying out for a tombstone to someone full of youthful exhuberance and pumped up on drink and drugs after a great night out. I know because I did something equally stupid when just 21yrs old in Barbados. After a great night out with my 'shipmates' celebrating sailing the Atlantic and high on my 1st visit to the Tropics + excess rum + excess grass, in pure exhuberance after swimming back to the yacht, I started to climb the 90' main mast with the intention of diving off the top spreaders into the warm and inviting Caribbean sea. The swaying mast led me stop on the lower spreaders and I can still clearly remember becoming acutely aware of the danger of hitting the deck if I miss-timed my dive with the sway. After what seemed like an eternity of nervous hesitation with friends trying to dissuade me from below, I did eventually jump, not dive, from the lower spreaders, and survived unscathed successfully clearing the side of the yacht.

I think the clear temptation of tombstoning from that roof is why barbed wire was there, (if it was/is) and I bet that it is/was well known on the island for young farangs tombstoning and among young visitors who stay a while on Koh Tao. On the other hand, this knowledge by locals, would make it ideal as an alibi for a murder if indeed one were needed.

""with friends trying to dissuade me from below"" says it all, you do NOT do these things alone....

[Cowboyshoe]

Burmese water

[dunroaming]

Of course the speculation is rife and the TV pundits will all have a view. The truth is there is so much mistrust of the Thai police that nothing they claim will be believed without substantial evidence. From the police side they will be desperate to put this down to an accident because the last thing they need is another investigation into a suspicious death on the island. All in all no chance of a true and accurate account of what really happened.

The autopsy will no doubt show what the police decide is their version of events.

[F4UCorsair]

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t34.0-12/12483581_717402381728391_1734817776_n.jpg?oh=5d0c0386f8923f1759720f5d452bb4ea&oe=5693EFCD

This is the booth from Sunset Bar.......(copied from their fb)

I bet everybody's looking for the barb wire now. Could be some to be fair but the pic is a little unclear.

Assuming of course this is the swimming pool in question? Because some articles were mentioning "hotel swimming pool" rather than bar swimming pool?

I agree with your comment, so a bit clearer picture:

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1934728_1689989134551283_7314562691152507477_n.jpg?oh=11d8f797faaca38ecc296bbb267241fb&oe=57008367

Now ask yourself this: why diving from the roof of that dj boot surrounded by barbed wire instead of from the spring board???

I assume he was found in THAT pool, correct me if I am wrong!

Because he was stoned, drumk, or both??

People behave irrationally when on alcohol or drugs.

I don't think anybody is in s position to draw any conclusions, particularly if they're relying on the media for information.

[sandrabbit]

sz1a, on 09 Jan 2016 - 20:07, said:

I'll bet they'll call it a suicide unless of course they find cigarette butts on the scene.

The cause of death is pretty much sure and you make this comment, get a life.

"The cause of death is pretty much sure " ???

pretty much sure? It is jsut what the police claim

why are you spamming this topic with nonsense, high on whizz and can't sleep?

[lkv]

This is the best to summarize and recap the dodgy stuff that has been going on. It also provides links to the other articles about suspicious deaths:

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/backpacker-found-dead-on-koh-tao-island-a-place-no-stranger-to-tourist-deaths/news-story/9366ea9a5c9057bd1f76f99e8f26c2ce

[fitzcaraldo]

We did it From 2nd flood malaysia hôtel and other hôtel young ,stupid, Stoned, full of life and fun and Lucky I guess.

[Krenjai]

We did it From 2nd flood malaysia hôtel and other hôtel young ,stupid, Stoned, full of life and fun and Lucky I guess.

Correct, we, you do NOT do these things alone..

[fitzcaraldo]

Yes one pushing thé other

[lkv]

Actually let me help you out with the previous article:

1. Luke Miller http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/backpacker-found-dead-on-koh-tao-island-a-place-no-stranger-to-tourist-deaths/news-story/9366ea9a5c9057bd1f76f99e8f26c2ce

2. Nick Pearson http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

3. Dimitri Povse http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/warnings/mafia-island-from-paradise-to-bloodshed/news-story/f182352ffcef3eea28363ba1ef7c4525

4. Christina Annesley http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/tourism/11363011/Political-activist-23-dies-backpacking-on-Thai-island-of-Koh-Tao.html

5. David Miller & Hannah Witheridge - links not necessary.

Number 4 seems to be from natural causes, although some people are still speculating on that.

Edited January 10, 2016 by lkv

[DKUNPUTAF713]

Let me make a comment here at this point in time.

I do hope the British MEs/coroners will at some point in time compare their autopsy

reports for any similarities regarding any and all facial contusions between

David Miller and Luke Miller!!

[Basil B]

Death Island strikes again

If you'd read the linked report, you will see that a pissed up young guy actually struck 'Death Island'. Well, one of it's swimming pool floors anyway, after having dove from a booth into it, lacerating his face with barbed wire on the way down. Some people shouldn't be given passports ..

I'm sorry but in my experience Thai holiday resorts make no effort at all when it comes to health and safety and the result is that stunts like this (if that IS what is was) are just to easy to do in Thailand.

there are 2 aspects to H&S here the first is to ensure the places are safe for the purpose intended - Thailand usually fails here and the second is to design facilities in such a way that horseplay and dangerous behaviour cannot be undertaken in the first place. As a holiday resort the owners/managers are fullt aware that their customers are likely to drink too much and exhibit excessive behaviour - and a such they should take measures to ensure their safety......no chance in Thailand.

My guess is that the vast majority of swimming pools and the surrounding areas would be immediately closed if they were in a European resort.

Yes, H&S are important. In this case, haven't we read that this person climbed up onto a DO Booth that was surrounded by barbed wire? Isn't the barbed wire an indication to keep off or out for your own good?

Maybe you're saying Thai barbed wire is no good or there should be strong barbed wire over weaker barbed wire on top of other barbed wire.

In the end if someone is determined to go on a frolic of their own, we can just wish them good luck.

We are not sure of all the circumstances, but on reading the first reports I put 2 & 2 together and got 22...

I was assuming this was a organised event/party where the organisers made a lot of money out of alcohol, possibly other interests too, in such a situation where patrons are being intentionally intoxicated I feel the organises/managers are responsible for "Duty of Care" and should conduct risk assessment to prevent such a tragedy, and clearly the barbed wire was not fit for purpose.

But now we see other reports, mentioned AC bar, and reports that it is closed down, so was there a there a party? or did the deceased trespass in a closed hotel? would explain why there was no CCTV and his body not discovered until the next morning...

Could the deceased have been beaten up, murdered for trespassing? or asking the wrong questions? even murdered elsewhere and dumped in the pool?

Following on from the HW & DM murders I have no confidence in the police to investigate it properly, they will just brush it under the carpet on instructions from higher authorities, and sadly I have no confidence in the British Government who I believe have in the past put commercial interests before justice and will continue to do so.

[Krenjai]

It could be possible that when the Mr Miler in question arrived on Ko Tao , its a small island and every local would have been aware of new arrivals , some of the locals may have thought that he was related to David Miller and had come to the island to...........errmmm, seek justice . Same surname, both from UK islands , easily to get mixed up for Thais . He seemed a jovial person, Maybe He even joked with locals about seeking justice for his namesake ? And they took it seriously .

Just a possibility, but one that shouldnt be over looked IMO

At first I thought a ridiculous post, however, maybe you got a point.....

How high is the chance somebody with the same surname, both in their twenties and both form UK Islands are getting killed on the same islands with no witnesses around? I mean that must be more than 1 in a million? trillion?

So maybe not so ridiculous as it may sound at first glance! You do normally give your passport upon check-in....so could be....nah, I have to dismiss these thoughts as being ridiculous.....

....but again one thing I do believe: you do NOT dive from a booth at such a busy party animal club alone in the middle of the night after closing time.

[Khun Han]

The two day mushy bender was the week before.

but reading the comments on his friends FB page the party just went on and on and on...

I agree that the poor guy comes across as having been a party animal, but I was just correcting a factual error being pushed (rather rudely) by the poster I quoted.

[Khun Han]

Actually let me help you out with the previous article:

1. Luke Miller http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/backpacker-found-dead-on-koh-tao-island-a-place-no-stranger-to-tourist-deaths/news-story/9366ea9a5c9057bd1f76f99e8f26c2ce

2. Nick Pearson http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

3. Dimitri Povse http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/warnings/mafia-island-from-paradise-to-bloodshed/news-story/f182352ffcef3eea28363ba1ef7c4525

4. Christina Annesley http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/tourism/11363011/Political-activist-23-dies-backpacking-on-Thai-island-of-Koh-Tao.html

5. David Miller & Hannah Witheridge - links not necessary.

Number 4 seems to be from natural causes, although some people are still speculating on that.

Christina Annesley's parents are still unhappy with the investigation into her death carried out on Koh Tao:

http://www.newsgrio.com/articles/131313-christina-annesley-s-parents-track-down-last-man-to-see-her-alive-in-sweden.html

[Basil B]

Until it's verified as being genuine, the poster called Maria Miller should be ignored as being a troll.

I am pleased that someone else has taken a similar view. I also found it unusual that this person, who purports to be the sister of the deceased, writes in such an inflammatory manner, thus giving rise to more and more hate posts, speculation and further criticism of the police and has elected to do so on an annoymous forum. I see this person was asked to put their details on their FB page but declined to do so as the family is grieving. The reason provided for not doing so I find paltry to say the least, as they took time to raise it on TVF, yet some have appeared to accept that reasoning. I can't, seeing that they have elected to use this type of carriage service for the specific purpose of what I believe is to inflame the situation as it would be a given for it to reach more readers than they'd get if it was on FB.

Firstly, what does this person hope to achieve through this forum, all I can see is that it is greating more hysteria, with people dreaming up all sorts of conclusions. murder, conspiracies, the involvement of the so called Island mafia, various assaults, being bashed and thrown into a pool, the list goes on, I won't expand because it is there for all to see. As for them declining to list the details on FB, I find unusual to say the least, as if they were to acknowledge their bona fides in this manner, then maybe one could find that the post is genuine but then again people are able to put up fake FB pages, aren't they? At this time, I am with you on the troll situation.

So this person gives out a email address, so what, proves absolutely nothing, does not substantiate for one minute that they are who they say they are. Anyone can have numerous email addresses but because they say this is who they it is being accepted by many. After having read numerous past posts, mainly from those people who want to denegrate Thailand, its people, the police, the laws, it strikes me as bearing a similar hate stirring message with multiple allegations of suspicion and wrong doings.

For many posters to go into overdrive and posting their infantile guesses, rumours and innuendos and giving out sympathic messages not knowing who they are dealing with just shows how gullible some can be. If I am criticised for being callous, then so be it but until this person can prove who they are and that they are the real deal, I cannot accept that in such a time of grief, that some one would come onto an anonymous forum, with what I believe is an attempt to inflame an already worsening situation. If I am proved to be wrong then I will be the first to appologise.

One other matter also caught my eye in this person's response to a poster, who initially advised that they should contact Jonathan Head. Now, I do not know if it was a Fraudian Slip but they referred to him as Richard Head. We all know what this means in the terms of general slang. May mean nothing but there is a huge difference between the two christian names.

Yes, but I hope MM will take the opportunity to contact the admin team to verify they are genuine, possibly the only factual information we have.

Edited January 10, 2016 by metisdead
Removed post edited out of reply.

[Si Thea01]

Until it's verified as being genuine, the poster called Maria Miller should be ignored as being a troll.

I am pleased that someone else has taken a similar view. I also found it unusual that this person, who purports to be the sister of the deceased, writes in such an inflammatory manner, thus giving rise to more and more hate posts, speculation and further criticism of the police and has elected to do so on an annoymous forum. I see this person was asked to put their details on their FB page but declined to do so as the family is grieving. The reason provided for not doing so I find paltry to say the least, as they took time to raise it on TVF, yet some have appeared to accept that reasoning. I can't, seeing that they have elected to use this type of carriage service for the specific purpose of what I believe is to inflame the situation as it would be a given for it to reach more readers than they'd get if it was on FB.

Firstly, what does this person hope to achieve through this forum, all I can see is that it is greating more hysteria, with people dreaming up all sorts of conclusions. murder, conspiracies, the involvement of the so called Island mafia, various assaults, being bashed and thrown into a pool, the list goes on, I won't expand because it is there for all to see. As for them declining to list the details on FB, I find unusual to say the least, as if they were to acknowledge their bona fides in this manner, then maybe one could find that the post is genuine but then again people are able to put up fake FB pages, aren't they? At this time, I am with you on the troll situation.

So this person gives out a email address, so what, proves absolutely nothing, does not substantiate for one minute that they are who they say they are. Anyone can have numerous email addresses but because they say this is who they it is being accepted by many. After having read numerous past posts, mainly from those people who want to denegrate Thailand, its people, the police, the laws, it strikes me as bearing a similar hate stirring message with multiple allegations of suspicion and wrong doings.

For many posters to go into overdrive and posting their infantile guesses, rumours and innuendos and giving out sympathic messages not knowing who they are dealing with just shows how gullible some can be. If I am criticised for being callous, then so be it but until this person can prove who they are and that they are the real deal, I cannot accept that in such a time of grief, that some one would come onto an anonymous forum, with what I believe is an attempt to inflame an already worsening situation. If I am proved to be wrong then I will be the first to appologise.

One other matter also caught my eye in this person's response to a poster, who initially advised that they should contact Jonathan Head. Now, I do not know if it was a Fraudian Slip but they referred to him as Richard Head. We all know what this means in the terms of general slang. May mean nothing but there is a huge difference between the two christian names.

Yes, but I hope MM will take the opportunity to contact the admin team to verify they are genuine, possibly the only factual information we have.

Again, just by contacting admin will not verify the persons's bona fides. Also, I cannot agree about the factual information aspect, I have not seen anything posted by the alleged relative that fits this criteria

Edited January 10, 2016 by metisdead
Removed post edited out of reply.

[Basil B]

While suggestions to contact Jonathan Head may well be a good idea as some of his reporting has been exceptional, and he seems to be able to report on things other journalists would get deported for.

I but I am uncertain of the BBC's impartiality, case in point was a brief heavily edited report from Jonathan on 24/25 December which seemed to support the the findings of Judges regarding the B2 in line with the British Governments statement, same report less edited broadcast latter expresses a different view...

Also I was in Thailand at the time of Charles and Camilla weeding and caught part of it on the BBC World Service and could clearly hear a lot of booing when he got to the Registry Office something that was edited out for UK viewers.

[bannork]

While suggestions to contact Jonathan Head may well be a good idea as some of his reporting has been exceptional, and he seems to be able to report on things other journalists would get deported for.

I but I am uncertain of the BBC's impartiality, case in point was a brief heavily edited report from Jonathan on 24/25 December which seemed to support the the findings of Judges regarding the B2 in line with the British Governments statement, same report less edited broadcast latter expresses a different view...

Also I was in Thailand at the time of Charles and Camilla weeding and caught part of it on the BBC World Service and could clearly hear a lot of booing when he got to the Registry Office something that was edited out for UK viewers.

The booing was in response to Charles's weeding. Many felt that as he was well known for talking to his plants to inspire growth, the least he could to the weeds which felt neglected was to leave them alone rather than go on a killing spree the day he got married.