British man found dead on Koh Tao

[Si Thea01]

They shouldn't have to "learn this the hardest way".

Thailand promotes itself as a holiday paradise, it should look after it's tourists. Not doing too well at that, eh ?

Yes, let Thailand do that and while you're at it let's have the same arrangements in Indonesia, Bali, Australia, England, France, Germany. America,. Mexico, Brazil, need I go on. There are assaults, rapes, murders, kidnappings, it goes on and on with different results in each of those countries. What are you suggesting be done to look after Thailand's tourists?

No matter where young people travel, unfortunately some will suffer unspeakable crimes committed against them, that is the world of today. Many, many sickos of different nationalities, not only here in Thailand. Yes, this is about Thailand and KT and no one wants to see anyone die but in this latest incident, I think we should all wait until, if and when, the autopsy report is released.

All those countries you mention above Thea are democracies.Without exception they have different core beliefs to Thailand. Thailand is a non democratic feudal system still based on patronage.

All of those countries you mention above have police forces who, in the main, care.

All of those countries you mention above have criminal justice systems, which are not perfect, but usually cannot be bought or bribed and are not subject to patronage..

Which part of Thailand do you not understand ????

I can tell you that in my country we have bashings, rapes, robberies and murders. As soon as they are discovered we relentlessly pursue the perpetrators. I am confident that is also the procedure in all those countries you mention. Have you spotted the difference yet?

Sartoric's alter ego are we? Well feel free but answer instead of lecturing me. Or is that your way of answering? Not relevant to what was asked, which in case you missed it was, what is he suggesting Thailand do to protect tourists?

Your knowledge really knows no bounds does it? Thailand has a police force, are you suggesting that none of them care? Are you saying Thailand's criminal justice system can be bribed, in totum, whilst the others' usually cannot? I'd do some checking before making such a naive statement.

I do not think that anything you have mentioned keeps anyone safe from harm or injury, which is what my question was directed toward. It is evident that by your own statement these criminal activities occur in your country despite those practices being in place. So come on, tell us what you would put in place to protect the tourists?

It would also amaze me if you could, just for once, stop your Thai bashing, decrying others because they have a different train of thought but then you wouldn't get your likes, would you?

[JLCrab]

Apologies correcting spelling of family name Witheridge, this will save a speedy response from the contrarian fellow with the strong binoculars who can spot used up DNA from 78 metres.

OOPS

PS Thanks to Biker for the earlier comment.

Edited January 25, 2016 by JLCrab

[jayjay78]

Has anyone asked why a man would be left to drown in a swimming pool without anyone noticing???? I find it very hard to believe. Drownings and hangings seem to be the way to go around that way.

I very much doubt barbed wire could knock you out as well. Interesting to see what the autopsy reveals and I would be in no way at all surprised if foul play is involved. There is a trend with young kids getting done over and it can't all be trivial accidents as many like to spin out to the families and what not.

The Thai's are big on face, everyone knows that, and all these incidents just scream of the hardcore retribution they commonly dish out for losing some. I still quite can't believe the motive of ' two young lads saw a couple going at it on the beach, got horny, and slaughtered them to death' actually got entertained. The world, or more specifically Thailand and its band of merry brainwashed supporters, have gone mad.

This death would be suspicious no matter where it is, Samui, Phuket, Bkk or even Perth, London or Chicago. The lame story we have so far given by the ever so honest RTP is far from clear and full of missing spaces. If they wanted to asure everyone of what had happened then they would be open, conduct a transparent investigation and release the full autopsy results not just say he died from drowning.

What have we at the moment. First they said he was drunk, because cctv indicated this, then they said they were not sure about that and would wait for the results of the autopsy, this then gets completed and no word is mentioned of the toxicology results or the wounds found on him.

They want the family to believe that he was alone, climbed onto a corrugated steel roof, jumped or dived in the pool to his death, yet there are no witnesses to this story, no cctv and no evidence that has been made public to corroborate it.

If your not suspicious about this then your blind. Until we get the UK autopsy and inquest summaries nothing can be ruled out.

[stephenterry]

Months ago supporters of the RTP and the death penalty for B2 asked continuously why did the friends of David and Hannah not say something.

Recently we have heard from Laura Withridge and Nichola Gissling.

Now that these two ladies have risked everything to speak out for Hannah and Luke, it seems to me that having risked everything to speak out the supporters mentioned above now refer to their words as pure speculation. Just like the coronor at Norfolk, UK, who spoke out in the interests of justice, her findings were adjudged pure speculation by the Thai court. If that was not the case why did not the Samui Court take into account the Norfolk coroner"s report?

I read that the court ignored the Norfolk pm report because she wasn't there to present it. And if she was she would not been able to because she wasn't on the witness list. Very neat piece of avoidance.

[glenmohr]

They shouldn't have to "learn this the hardest way".

Thailand promotes itself as a holiday paradise, it should look after it's tourists. Not doing too well at that, eh ?

Yes, let Thailand do that and while you're at it let's have the same arrangements in Indonesia, Bali, Australia, England, France, Germany. America,. Mexico, Brazil, need I go on. There are assaults, rapes, murders, kidnappings, it goes on and on with different results in each of those countries. What are you suggesting be done to look after Thailand's tourists?

No matter where young people travel, unfortunately some will suffer unspeakable crimes committed against them, that is the world of today. Many, many sickos of different nationalities, not only here in Thailand. Yes, this is about Thailand and KT and no one wants to see anyone die but in this latest incident, I think we should all wait until, if and when, the autopsy report is released.

All those countries you mention above Thea are democracies.Without exception they have different core beliefs to Thailand. Thailand is a non democratic feudal system still based on patronage.

All of those countries you mention above have police forces who, in the main, care.

All of those countries you mention above have criminal justice systems, which are not perfect, but usually cannot be bought or bribed and are not subject to patronage..

Which part of Thailand do you not understand ????

I can tell you that in my country we have bashings, rapes, robberies and murders. As soon as they are discovered we relentlessly pursue the perpetrators. I am confident that is also the procedure in all those countries you mention. Have you spotted the difference yet?

Sartoric's alter ego are we? Well feel free but answer instead of lecturing me. Or is that your way of answering? Not relevant to what was asked, which in case you missed it was, what is he suggesting Thailand do to protect tourists?

Your knowledge really knows no bounds does it? Thailand has a police force, are you suggesting that none of them care? Are you saying Thailand's criminal justice system can be bribed, in totum, whilst the others' usually cannot? I'd do some checking before making such a naive statement.

I do not think that anything you have mentioned keeps anyone safe from harm or injury, which is what my question was directed toward. It is evident that by your own statement these criminal activities occur in your country despite those practices being in place. So come on, tell us what you would put in place to protect the tourists?

It would also amaze me if you could, just for once, stop your Thai bashing, decrying others because they have a different train of thought but then you wouldn't get your likes, would you?

Ok Thea I accept you cannot spot the difference between a large group of democratic, countries that you selected, and one non democratic country.

Spelling it out for you. In the democratic countries the police and courts operate as separate institutions from the government, got it yet?

Yes mistakes are made in democratic countries. All of us who are human are in that category.

No I am not a Thai basher, I love the people of Thailand. I look forward to the day when these fine people get a chance to express their potential .

Yes the Thai have one very well known policeman who cares. we all know about him , he was taken off the case at Koh Tao as soon as she showed he cared. Name: Lt General Panya Mamen. I am sure there are lots of policemen and women who care in Thailand but as soon as they display some of that trait they are moved to inactive posts. In fact the General has a warehouse full of pre dated orders transferring officers to inactive posts and brings them out from time to time and says " Hey look you are supposed to be in an inactive post dated 342 BC, so we did not just dream this up today!"

How does Thailand protect tourists? It cannot. But when tourists are victims of crime the perpetrators should be pursued and confined so there is less repeat offending. The families of bereaved tourist should continually be treated with respect and dignity. That is all we ask of you. If the leaders of Thailand were to study the societies you mention they would learn how it is done. Incidentally there are several states in this region where the punishment for crime against a visitor is much much higher than the same crime against a local. But now you will probably answer all that by saying it is all the fault of women who insist on wearing bikinis.

[kcirtapyelrah]

I am just tired of endless speculations , lets wait for the autopsy. Maybe it was a murder , just maybe , ok ?

What would the odds have been that another Miller would drowned under suspicious circumstance on that tiny Island within sixteen months of David Miller. After the fiasco of David and Hannah's case, only a complete fool would believe anything the RTP have to say, how could any reasonable sound minded person not have serious doubts?

[NanLaew]

Months ago supporters of the RTP and the death penalty for B2 asked continuously why did the friends of David and Hannah not say something.

Recently we have heard from Laura Withridge and Nichola Gissling.

Now that these two ladies have risked everything to speak out for Hannah and Luke, it seems to me that having risked everything to speak out the supporters mentioned above now refer to their words as pure speculation. Just like the coronor at Norfolk, UK, who spoke out in the interests of justice, her findings were adjudged pure speculation by the Thai court. If that was not the case why did not the Samui Court take into account the Norfolk coroner"s report?

I read that the court ignored the Norfolk pm report because she wasn't there to present it. And if she was she would not been able to because she wasn't on the witness list. Very neat piece of avoidance.

A court appointed defense lawyer is aware of kreng jai. In this case, possibly even more so.

[Jack Burton]

Has anyone asked why a man would be left to drown in a swimming pool without anyone noticing???? I find it very hard to believe. Drownings and hangings seem to be the way to go around that way.

I very much doubt barbed wire could knock you out as well. Interesting to see what the autopsy reveals and I would be in no way at all surprised if foul play is involved. There is a trend with young kids getting done over and it can't all be trivial accidents as many like to spin out to the families and what not.

The Thai's are big on face, everyone knows that, and all these incidents just scream of the hardcore retribution they commonly dish out for losing some. I still quite can't believe the motive of ' two young lads saw a couple going at it on the beach, got horny, and slaughtered them to death' actually got entertained. The world, or more specifically Thailand and its band of merry brainwashed supporters, have gone mad.

This death would be suspicious no matter where it is, Samui, Phuket, Bkk or even Perth, London or Chicago. The lame story we have so far given by the ever so honest RTP is far from clear and full of missing spaces. If they wanted to asure everyone of what had happened then they would be open, conduct a transparent investigation and release the full autopsy results not just say he died from drowning.

What have we at the moment. First they said he was drunk, because cctv indicated this, then they said they were not sure about that and would wait for the results of the autopsy, this then gets completed and no word is mentioned of the toxicology results or the wounds found on him.

They want the family to believe that he was alone, climbed onto a corrugated steel roof, jumped or dived in the pool to his death, yet there are no witnesses to this story, no cctv and no evidence that has been made public to corroborate it.

If your not suspicious about this then your blind. Until we get the UK autopsy and inquest summaries nothing can be ruled out.

Agreed. If you perform a daredevil dive into a pool you do so to show off, it is not a solo act by any stretch of the imagination. Funny how the CCTV never seems to work when it is required, you would have thought every business on the island would have got on top of that one after the last few murders were missing evidence due to this unfortunate mishap.

So a young lad bang on it decides to walk up to a hotel swimming pool, climb on to a DJ Booth and dive into the pool knocking himself out on barb wire with nobody around? Surprised a couple weren't going at it in the pool and he got the horn so decided to fly in for a piece of the action. Perfectly plausible behaviour around those parts supposedly.......

[evadgib]

...isn't it time this was closed?

[KunMatt]

...isn't it time this was closed?

UK autopsy due soon. I read the date 30th Jan is important o Justice for Luke FB page, perhaps that is when something will happen. Edited January 26, 2016 by KunMatt

[007cableguy]

...isn't it time this was closed?

Why close it ?....Its easy if you don't like the thread don't click on it ! Simples!!

[evadgib]

...isn't it time this was closed?

Why close it ?....Its easy if you don't like the thread don't click on it ! Simples!!

I might like it if it contained something NEW!

Would you like me to go home too?

Oh hang on a minute, I AM home!

Edited January 26, 2016 by evadgib

[metisdead]

Off-topic accusatory posts and replies removed.

Please stay on the topic of the thread. That means addressing the issues presented in the post, not in making comments to or about other posters. Doing so is off-topic and your post will be removed and you could face a suspension. Digging through other member's posts and bringing them up on the forum can be considered stalking and it is against the forum rules.

[TheLobster]

Young British tourist Luke Miller found dead on Thai backpacker murder island

No matter how much you want it to, it is not going away.

[ffaarraanngg]

Young British tourist Luke Miller found dead on Thai backpacker murder island

No matter how much you want it to, it is not going away.

That article was written on January 9.

[Scouse Twoccer]

Young British tourist Luke Miller found dead on Thai backpacker murder island

No matter how much you want it to, it is not going away.

No matter how much you want it to stick around, it's pretty much disappeared already.

[balo]

Looking forward to hear the outcome of the autopsy on Monday. Then maybe the relatives will get some peace, let's hope so.

[TheLobster]

Young British tourist Luke Miller found dead on Thai backpacker murder island

No matter how much you want it to, it is not going away.

That article was written on January 9.

To clarify that should have read going to go away, it is high a profile case reported in the UK press including the broadsheets. So will continue to be monitored and reported on, especially when a respected media outlet is including in their headlines Thai backpacker murder island

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

Edit: Some more posts not related to this topic have been removed as well as the replies.

Edited January 31, 2016 by metisdead

[SiSePuede419]

"After studying the photos, I would hazard a guess that it is made of flimsy stuff. I think people have said that the roof was buckled because Luke stood on it. Not true, it was buckled before this incident."

Probably doesn't have a plywood decking, 555.

I've gotten up on my roof before, when I was building my house. Not my favorite thing to do. And I might get up on the bamboo scaffolding when I'm making the traditional Thai thatch roof/sunshade for my next home I build, but...

It's dangerous, even when perfectly sober. Or here in Colorado, appropriately buzzed.

You would have to a combination of really, really drugged/drunk and stupid to get up on a roof that was visibly deformed.

But let's not rule that out as impossible.

As Sherlock Holmes character (on the new series) once said, you rule out the impossible.

Until you're left with only the possible...

[Moonsterk]

I am just tired of endless speculations , lets wait for the autopsy. Maybe it was a murder , just maybe , ok ?

What would the odds have been that another Miller would drowned under suspicious circumstance on that tiny Island within sixteen months of David Miller. After the fiasco of David and Hannah's case, only a complete fool would believe anything the RTP have to say, how could any reasonable sound minded person not have serious doubts?

Because accidents happen, even on " Murder island.." ( yes, that really is a bit irresponsible headline but gets the hits.) Especially when young men are hi jinking around and drunk and/or using drugs. And to write it is " impossible" for the lad to have simply climbed up on a small building to amuse himself is just pure BS- no one knows what he was up to.

So when will the UK autopsy be released? It was to be out yesterday, maybe the coroner concurred with police in this case.

[Slip]

I am just tired of endless speculations , lets wait for the autopsy. Maybe it was a murder , just maybe , ok ?

What would the odds have been that another Miller would drowned under suspicious circumstance on that tiny Island within sixteen months of David Miller. After the fiasco of David and Hannah's case, only a complete fool would believe anything the RTP have to say, how could any reasonable sound minded person not have serious doubts?

Because accidents happen, even on " Murder island.." ( yes, that really is a bit irresponsible headline but gets the hits.) Especially when young men are hi jinking around and drunk and/or using drugs. And to write it is " impossible" for the lad to have simply climbed up on a small building to amuse himself is just pure BS- no one knows what he was up to.

So when will the UK autopsy be released? It was to be out yesterday, maybe the coroner concurred with police in this case.

I'm completely confused. I keep rereading the posts you have quoted, but I can't find the words 'impossible' or the headline 'Murder Island' that you refer to. Did someone edit a post?

[kcirtapyelrah]

I am just tired of endless speculations , lets wait for the autopsy. Maybe it was a murder , just maybe , ok ?

What would the odds have been that another Miller would drowned under suspicious circumstance on that tiny Island within sixteen months of David Miller. After the fiasco of David and Hannah's case, only a complete fool would believe anything the RTP have to say, how could any reasonable sound minded person not have serious doubts?

Because accidents happen, even on " Murder island.." ( yes, that really is a bit irresponsible headline but gets the hits.) Especially when young men are hi jinking around and drunk and/or using drugs. And to write it is " impossible" for the lad to have simply climbed up on a small building to amuse himself is just pure BS- no one knows what he was up to.

So when will the UK autopsy be released? It was to be out yesterday, maybe the coroner concurred with police in this case.

I haven't said that it was impossible and how do you know no one knows what happened.

[Moonsterk]

I am just tired of endless speculations , lets wait for the autopsy. Maybe it was a murder , just maybe , ok ?

What would the odds have been that another Miller would drowned under suspicious circumstance on that tiny Island within sixteen months of David Miller. After the fiasco of David and Hannah's case, only a complete fool would believe anything the RTP have to say, how could any reasonable sound minded person not have serious doubts?

Because accidents happen, even on " Murder island.." ( yes, that really is a bit irresponsible headline but gets the hits.) Especially when young men are hi jinking around and drunk and/or using drugs. And to write it is " impossible" for the lad to have simply climbed up on a small building to amuse himself is just pure BS- no one knows what he was up to.

So when will the UK autopsy be released? It was to be out yesterday, maybe the coroner concurred with police in this case.

I haven't said that it was impossible and how do you know no one knows what happened.

No but you wrote " How can any reasonable person have doubts.." Well I have doubts and I'm reasonable. I'm also addressing some other comments made by others which are pure speculation such as declarations "he wouldn't have....without a crowd to show-off for..." and other presumptions. Who knows why he did what he did, he was drunk, possibly using drugs, too and accidents happen when people are inebriated because their judgement and coordination are impaired.

Here's a scenario, he climbs up on a small building, Who knows why- he's drunk. Takes a tumble, gets scratched, bruises, hits head, falls in water - drowns. Pure speculation, sure but certainly explains it all while being far more plausible than the murder theories.

And since when are murders covered up definitively? Sure, maybe the wrong people are blamed, but that's a whole different topic.

So far no one is providing any real evidence to counter the police version but I do note the tribute FB page is now re posting the David Miller / Witheridge articles from September 2014 as new murders seemingly without realizing the news items are 16 months old.

IMO, the owner of that page is doing a real disservice to families of real victims, namely David Miller and Hannah Witheridge.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Moonsterk]

To clarify that should have read going to go away, it is high a profile case reported in the UK press including the broadsheets. So will continue to be monitored and reported on, especially when a respected media outlet is including in their headlines Thai backpacker murder island

I'm completely confused. I keep rereading the posts you have quoted, but I can't find the words 'impossible' or the headline 'Murder Island' that you refer to. Did someone edit a post?

Some posts were removed but the " Murder island" post is above by Lobster

Incidentally, the case has gone away, not one media report beyond January 12- and no much touted UK autopsy report either countering the official version.

RE " impossible" Someone made an absurd claim it would have been. "impossible for Luke to have climbed up.... to show off without anyone there to show off for...." Just beyond the realm of any kind of reasonable assumption as to the motive for climbing up. HE WAS DRUNK...No one can possibly know why he did what he did.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Moonsterk

[alanrchase]

To clarify that should have read going to go away, it is high a profile case reported in the UK press including the broadsheets. So will continue to be monitored and reported on, especially when a respected media outlet is including in their headlines Thai backpacker murder island

I'm completely confused. I keep rereading the posts you have quoted, but I can't find the words 'impossible' or the headline 'Murder Island' that you refer to. Did someone edit a post?

Some posts were removed but the " Murder island" post is above.

Someone made an absurd claim it would have been. "impossible for Luke to have climbed up.... to show off without anyone there to show off for...." Just beyond the realm of any kind of reasonable assumption as to the motive for climbing up. HE WAS DRUNK...

Fink most drunk folk fall down rather than climb up a dodgy looking piece of a shelter. For sure a corrugated tin roof would have made a lot of noise with someone climbing over it to be heard..

Are you sure?

[Moonsterk]

To clarify that should have read going to go away, it is high a profile case reported in the UK press including the broadsheets. So will continue to be monitored and reported on, especially when a respected media outlet is including in their headlines Thai backpacker murder island

I'm completely confused. I keep rereading the posts you have quoted, but I can't find the words 'impossible' or the headline 'Murder Island' that you refer to. Did someone edit a post?

Some posts were removed but the " Murder island" post is above.

Someone made an absurd claim it would have been. "impossible for Luke to have climbed up.... to show off without anyone there to show off for...." Just beyond the realm of any kind of reasonable assumption as to the motive for climbing up. HE WAS DRUNK...

Fink most drunk folk fall down rather than climb up a dodgy looking piece of a shelter. For sure a corrugated tin roof would have made a lot of noise with someone climbing over it to be heard..

And even more supposition- did he even make it to the top? Drunks like to think they are invincible..Or.... or.... or.... Was he high on drugs too? Seems he was bragging about taking hallucinogenics on a FB page. People do go to these islands and spend much time getting wasted.

" Would be heard..." Assumptions abound.

Was it windy, was there music elsewhere or other loud noises...or...or... Was there even anyone around to hear it? It was late, it's my observation Thais can sleep through any noise.

Despite all the claims, supposition, assumptions and outright hysterics, not one respected media outlet has reported this young man was murdered. There is not one reliable, independent source of information pointing to anything other than he had a tragic accident.

It would seem even the family has accepted the police version of events and not one interview regarding the UK autopsy report, which was to have been finished 2 days ago, has surfaced.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Khun Han]

^ Complaining about posters making suppositions, and countering them with a post full of suppositions.....interesting tactic.

Anyway, one thing you got right is no news about the autopsy report being released yet (I did a search last night). But then you spoiled even that by making a supposition that this means it supports the RTP vrsion of events. Oh well.....

[stephenterry]

^ Complaining about posters making suppositions, and countering them with a post full of suppositions.....interesting tactic.

Anyway, one thing you got right is no news about the autopsy report being released yet (I did a search last night). But then you spoiled even that by making a supposition that this means it supports the RTP vrsion of events. Oh well.....

What is more probable is that an altercation took place, the guy was beaten up and chucked in the pool to drown. Not murder per se but manslaughter.

[Si Thea01]

^ Complaining about posters making suppositions, and countering them with a post full of suppositions.....interesting tactic.

Anyway, one thing you got right is no news about the autopsy report being released yet (I did a search last night). But then you spoiled even that by making a supposition that this means it supports the RTP vrsion of events. Oh well.....

What is more probable is that an altercation took place, the guy was beaten up and chucked in the pool to drown. Not murder per se but manslaughter.

If one was to accept your speculative scenario, it would be murder, not manslaughter. if someone is beaten and then thrown into a pool and left to drown, then the intent is to take their life, therefore it's murder. No motive, no suspects, no witnesses, no nothing and an autopsy announcing death by drowning. How about this scenario, the possibility of death by misadventure?

The friends and sister have gone very quiet. I wonder why? Also, the friends distanced themselves from the incident very quickly when confronted by police but then allegedly went out of their way to photograph the corpse (secretly) and then announce to the world they discovered marks not consistent with the police report. Now, what is their medical training to be able to make such remarks and did they have a copy of the autopsy and police reports to enable them to make such a comparison. Only asking.