New Overstay Rules Announced By Immigration

[TheKnave]

how can you miscalculate? . you email yourself the date In your passport, set alarm on Google, sent email to yourself 1 week before, repeat alarm 3 days before.

place the date on your exit door so you see it everyday.

etc.

How does sending an email to yourself one week before do anything? You'll just receive that email within a few minutes after sending it.

Should you also send a reminder email a week before sending that email?

There's this thing called Google Calendar, which, if used, can send you reminders of an event by email.

Many such programs exist, but are of little use to the terminally obtuse...

[TheKnave]

So it doesn't look like there is a 90 day grace period for those arrested. Caught with a 1 day overstay and it's a 5 year ban!

That's the way I read it also... Pretty HARSH for anyone unlucky to get arrested while on a very brief overstay.

Yes, the reg does say "arrested and prosecuted", not just arrested on overstay. But the way the Thai authorities operate, who knows how that language is going to be used in real life situations.

They could very well take the language literally, and start handing out 5 year bans for any overstay arrests. I guess we'll find out when the time comes.

I think they have had to do it this way otherwise I doubt much would change except that the bar stool would be telling everyone it's ok to overstay 90 days and people would limit their overstays to 90 days, exit and repeat.

Having the threat of a 5 year ban is a deterrent that I am sure will see a change in mindset and fix the problem.

I honestly believe that immigration are fed up with the growing opinion that overstaying is ok and accepted by immigration.

Ah, clairvoyance, or more likely, projection.

So many insecure foreigners, worried that others' behavior will cast them in a bad light. Kind of bigoted, no? Assuming that Thai officials can't descriminate between a foreigner and a foreign overstayer?

Pathetic, the lengths some will go to justify their need for authority.

[Jonmarleesco]

So it doesn't look like there is a 90 day grace period for those arrested. Caught with a 1 day overstay and it's a 5 year ban!

One day? I doubt that. In fact, given how long the rules have been in print, and posted at immigration, I'll be surprised if they don't change them again.

[Jonmarleesco]

how can you miscalculate? . you email yourself the date In your passport, set alarm on Google, sent email to yourself 1 week before, repeat alarm 3 days before.

place the date on your exit door so you see it everyday.

etc.

How does sending an email to yourself one week before do anything? You'll just receive that email within a few minutes after sending it.

Should you also send a reminder email a week before sending that email?

There's this thing called Google Calendar, which, if used, can send you reminders of an event by email.

Many such programs exist, but are of little use to the terminally obtuse...

Or to the IT illiterate. You presumably don't fall into that category ...

[TheKnave]

You are TOTALLY wrong with your comment on the repercussions of a US overstay. In my case; an ALLEGED overstay, I have resigned myself to the fact that I will receive an unpleasant 'secondary inspection' every time I arrive in the US in perpetuity. I am also banned from using the visa waiver system; therefore I need a visa for each and every US entry. They are not legally bound to share this overstay evidence with me or my attorney; the onus is on me to prove that I didn't overstay. This dates back to 2002... about 4 passports and several hundred boarding passes ago.

Imagine what the 'TV grumpies' would make of being pulled up each and every time they enter LOS?

Nothing tall or equestrian about it.

So you are not banned and have been able to go back "several hundred" times since then?

Like I said you are not barred if you overstay in the US less than 180 days you get a overstay stamp in your passport meaning the officer at immigration will pull you over. How is that worst than an outright ban?

You also miss understood the TV comment, they aren't complaining it's too hard, they are wishing people with two days overstay get the ban, they would welcome people getting pulled over.

I was contesting your totally wrong assertion with respect to the US immigration policy where you say, "...you overstay less than 180 days NOTHING happens to you." (your emphasis, not mine).

You do NOT get any overstay stamp in your passport. US Immigration flag your passport in their system, so you front up, they ask the usual questions, get your dabs and then they turn on the red light above the booth, hand your passport to your escort and off you go to secondary inspection.

Their secondary inspections are ball achingly pedantic exercises in petty bureaucracy and a total waste of my my time and their resources. They only flagged my alleged 2002 overstays in 2011 and I was subject to 3 secondary inspections over the ensuing 8 months, each getting longer and more tedious until they finally threw their toys out of the pram and disallowed me from using the visa waiver in 2012. Since the US visa costs money, takes time to get and is not a guarantee of being allowed to enter the US, I haven't been back.

Now enough about me and back on topic, I hope that any abusers of Thailand's new immigration rules feel exactly the same as I do and once they get busted, fined, jailed and deported, they don't try and come back here.

Well,finally we get to the meat of the matter: you feel hard done by the US Customs people, and wish that everyone else who overstays (but in Thailand) gets similar pain to that which you feel.

Butthurt is hard to heal, eh?

If, upon learning your plight, some temporary visitor to the US had said,"Good! About time!", your head would have probably exploded. But now, with the shoe on the other foot, the abused becomes the abuser...

Too funny.

[elviajero]

So it doesn't look like there is a 90 day grace period for those arrested. Caught with a 1 day overstay and it's a 5 year ban!

That's the way I read it also... Pretty HARSH for anyone unlucky to get arrested while on a very brief overstay.

Yes, the reg does say "arrested and prosecuted", not just arrested on overstay. But the way the Thai authorities operate, who knows how that language is going to be used in real life situations.

They could very well take the language literally, and start handing out 5 year bans for any overstay arrests. I guess we'll find out when the time comes.

I think they have had to do it this way otherwise I doubt much would change except that the bar stool would be telling everyone it's ok to overstay 90 days and people would limit their overstays to 90 days, exit and repeat.

Having the threat of a 5 year ban is a deterrent that I am sure will see a change in mindset and fix the problem.

I honestly believe that immigration are fed up with the growing opinion that overstaying is ok and accepted by immigration.

Ah, clairvoyance, or more likely, projection.

So many insecure foreigners, worried that others' behavior will cast them in a bad light. Kind of bigoted, no? Assuming that Thai officials can't descriminate between a foreigner and a foreign overstayer?

Pathetic, the lengths some will go to justify their need for authority.

It's called opinion.

DELETED

Edited January 12, 2016 by seedy
abusive

[elviajero]

So it doesn't look like there is a 90 day grace period for those arrested. Caught with a 1 day overstay and it's a 5 year ban!

One day? I doubt that. In fact, given how long the rules have been in print, and posted at immigration, I'll be surprised if they don't change them again.

I hope not but the original proposal included; "The aliens who violate The Immigration Act, B.E.2522 by overstaying more than 90 days in the Kingdom of Thailand will be forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for a certain period of time as follow ;" Which could be interpreted to mean those surrendering and arrested. But what has been published so far seems to indicate that only those surrendering will be given a 90 day grace period.

[swerver]

Well now it's official.The best deal on the table for all you overstayers,It's best you see them before they find you.

Please, can anybody explain the RATIONALE of this Overstay behavior???

I have been associated with Thailand for the past 66-years and never have overstayed.

It is like my birthdate I never forget that one either.

So then is it reasonable to accept that all these over-stayers also do not remember their birthdate???

DELETED

Edited January 12, 2016 by seedy
offensive

[thaibreaker]

Well now it's official.The best deal on the table for all you overstayers,It's best you see them before they find you.

Please, can anybody explain the RATIONALE of this Overstay behavior???

I have been associated with Thailand for the past 66-years and never have overstayed.

It is like my birthdate I never forget that one either.

So then is it reasonable to accept that all these over-stayers also do not remember their birthdate???

In that case those brainless persons must never be allowed back in to Thailand were they will get a hold of some stupid Thai, Isan, Buriram, to name some, girl and produce a double stupid offspring. The possibility is there.

Ever considered that there may be reasons for overstaying beyond brainless stupidity?

I thought I had read it all.

[jspill]

Get away from the toxic attitude some old men have on messageboards, and ask Thais - simply overstaying isn't a grievous amoral act, it was a 'small problem', more of a misdemeanour / administrative infraction. Sure there's a correlation between it and serious criminality, but there are plenty of criminals with valid visas too.

Starting to blacklist overstayers isn't addressing the core issue of what attracts criminals to Thailand. I don't think they actually want to address that, instead just shift the blame. These changes really feel like part of a wider issue - one we aren't allowed to go into.

Quite sad that threads like this one run longer than ones about single internet gateways or leaders saying they'll 'close the country' like North Korea.

[sunnyjim5]

Get away from the toxic attitude some old men have on messageboards, and ask Thais - simply overstaying isn't a grievous amoral act, it was a 'small problem', more of a misdemeanour / administrative infraction. Sure there's a correlation between it and serious criminality, but there are plenty of criminals with valid visas too.

Starting to blacklist overstayers isn't addressing the core issue of what attracts criminals to Thailand. I don't think they actually want to address that, instead just shift the blame. These changes really feel like part of a wider issue - one we aren't allowed to go into.

Quite sad that threads like this one run longer than ones about single internet gateways or leaders saying they'll 'close the country' like North Korea.

Which leader has said , suggested or threatened to "close the country" ?

PM me a reply if you feel unable to post a response here .

[gk10002000]

just wonder what really will happen. Must one sit at the checkpoint and wait for a "judge" to make a ruling? Will there be leeway in when your case is forwarded to a judge? Still be able possibly to pay a fine on the spot? Tea Money, corruption possibilities, etc. Oh well.

[mango66]

In 50 years and hundreds of trips in and out of Thailand- I have never overstayed even 1 day. However, I believe the law is poorly written. If one makes an honest mistake and then is stopped and found to be a few days overstay- your life depends upon convincing the Immigration not to prosecute or then convincing a judge not to blacklist. While the current law is somewhat benign the new law is way to severe. It doesn't matter what Western countries do, Thailand used to be know for its readiness to bend. Let us see how this is actually handled in reality. My instincts tell me money is going to make the difference and that is not how the law should work.

Grey areas are the perfect breading ground for more corruption.

I was late by 1 day once in 15 years because of the massive floods a few years ago. You'd think the immigration officer would understand, but no, he was a real <deleted> about it. So what now? somebody caught in floods is banned if the officer is having a bad day?

People will say no it won't happen but when things are open to interpretation like Thailand's 10 year in jail or/and 10k fine it means you are at he mercy of a uniform. Why not make it 100% clear?

still better than US,

if a cop kill a coloured youth, never mind whats the reason ,

not guilty !

[cyberfarang]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

Arrested and prosecuted is what it says. Doesn't seem harsh to me that they'd want to ban criminals from the country.

Yes, a little miscalculation .... get arrested ... brown envelope and then we won't prosecuted you .......it won't happen

In Thailand I have learned never to take anything for granted. This time it seems they mean business and wouldn`t bet on a brown envelope getting people off the hook.

[FritsSikkink]

Get away from the toxic attitude some old men have on messageboards, and ask Thais - simply overstaying isn't a grievous amoral act, it was a 'small problem', more of a misdemeanour / administrative infraction. Sure there's a correlation between it and serious criminality, but there are plenty of criminals with valid visas too.

Starting to blacklist overstayers isn't addressing the core issue of what attracts criminals to Thailand. I don't think they actually want to address that, instead just shift the blame. These changes really feel like part of a wider issue - one we aren't allowed to go into.

Quite sad that threads like this one run longer than ones about single internet gateways or leaders saying they'll 'close the country' like North Korea.

no visa, no work permit, no taxes but still no criminal?

only things you don't do are criminal?

[mango66]

how can you miscalculate? . you email yourself the date In your passport, set alarm on Google, sent email to yourself 1 week before, repeat alarm 3 days before.

place the date on your exit door so you see it everyday.

etc.

How does sending an email to yourself one week before do anything? You'll just receive that email within a few minutes after sending it.

Should you also send a reminder email a week before sending that email?

stay there from where you are, you will not get this problems !!4

[Maestro]

The long-touted overstay ban rules have finally arrived in the form of an official document, not as a Royal Decree, as several news articles in recent months said it would be, based on public pronouncements made by high-ranking immigration officials, most recently on 2015-12-09, but in the form of Ministerial Order dated 27 November 2015 and published in the Government Gazette of 21 December. Ministries usually issue Regulations. Orders seem to be rare, as the No. 1/2558 of this Order indicates, ie it was the first for the year 20015.

The English translation provided by the Immigration Bureau is quite good, aside from the fact that is says visa when they mean permission to stay, but they do this a lot at immigration.

What remains to be seen, when this Order goes into effect on 20 March 2016, is how immigration will implement it. Will they refuse entry to all foreigners with overstay periods as listed in the order? Or will they do so on a selected basis, at their discretion? Does the Order allow them discretion? We can but wait and see how this will play out.

[jspill]

Get away from the toxic attitude some old men have on messageboards, and ask Thais - simply overstaying isn't a grievous amoral act, it was a 'small problem', more of a misdemeanour / administrative infraction. Sure there's a correlation between it and serious criminality, but there are plenty of criminals with valid visas too.

Starting to blacklist overstayers isn't addressing the core issue of what attracts criminals to Thailand. I don't think they actually want to address that, instead just shift the blame. These changes really feel like part of a wider issue - one we aren't allowed to go into.

Quite sad that threads like this one run longer than ones about single internet gateways or leaders saying they'll 'close the country' like North Korea.

no visa, no work permit, no taxes but still no criminal?

only things you don't do are criminal?

I didn't say it isn't a criminal act.

But calling them 'criminals' cheapens the word crime. By extension you'd call people who accrue too many parking tickets, or ride a bike without a helmet 'criminals', and you'd be trivialising the word. Why is it that the overstay topic attracts more vitriol than much more harmful acts? I suspect deep down you simply don't want to share Thailand with too many other white faces.

[jspill]

Get away from the toxic attitude some old men have on messageboards, and ask Thais - simply overstaying isn't a grievous amoral act, it was a 'small problem', more of a misdemeanour / administrative infraction. Sure there's a correlation between it and serious criminality, but there are plenty of criminals with valid visas too.

Starting to blacklist overstayers isn't addressing the core issue of what attracts criminals to Thailand. I don't think they actually want to address that, instead just shift the blame. These changes really feel like part of a wider issue - one we aren't allowed to go into.

Quite sad that threads like this one run longer than ones about single internet gateways or leaders saying they'll 'close the country' like North Korea.

Which leader has said , suggested or threatened to "close the country" ?

PM me a reply if you feel unable to post a response here .

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/867336-majority-supports-prayuts-close-country-remark-poll/

[BritTim]

You are TOTALLY wrong with your comment on the repercussions of a US overstay. In my case; an ALLEGED overstay, I have resigned myself to the fact that I will receive an unpleasant 'secondary inspection' every time I arrive in the US in perpetuity. I am also banned from using the visa waiver system; therefore I need a visa for each and every US entry. They are not legally bound to share this overstay evidence with me or my attorney; the onus is on me to prove that I didn't overstay. This dates back to 2002... about 4 passports and several hundred boarding passes ago.

Imagine what the 'TV grumpies' would make of being pulled up each and every time they enter LOS?

Nothing tall or equestrian about it.

My guess is that this happened owing to a mistake by the airline on your departure. They probably failed to inform immigration correctly. Presumably, you will no longer have a record (with proof) of your flight out of the U.S. Are your old passports lost? If not, find the passport with all your stamps from 2002. I would expect a photocopy of all the pages should usually be sufficient to prove that you did not overstay. The exception would be if you had no entry stamp into another country within a reasonable period after your departure from the U.S.

[BritTim]

How do they make a mistake and miscalculate? Immigration clearly stamp your passport "Admitted Until" Hardly difficult to work out, they stamp the date you have to leave by.

Actually, one of the biggest mistakes you can make is relying on that date stamp without checking it yourself. You are permitted to stay for the appropriate number of days based on the entry date. If you stay longer because the admitted until date is wrong that is no excuse under the law. I know this because a number of years back I got caught by it. The official made a mistake, and I had to pay for it.

[BritTim]

how can you miscalculate? . you email yourself the date In your passport, set alarm on Google, sent email to yourself 1 week before, repeat alarm 3 days before.

place the date on your exit door so you see it everyday.

etc.

How does sending an email to yourself one week before do anything? You'll just receive that email within a few minutes after sending it.

Should you also send a reminder email a week before sending that email?

What he is referring to is use of a tool that can send reminder emails on specified dates/times. There are several such tools to choose from. Personally, I just rely on calendar reminders.

[chrisinth]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

just got my yearly retirement visa renewed and I had to sign a statement saying the above! plain and simple, you overstay, you pay!

Always confused me that the only ones required to sign this declaration are the ones already in process for a legitimate extension of stay in the country.

Would it not be better to add this declaration with your entry/departure card when you enter the country? i would imagine this would inform a lot more potential 'overstayers' than they are covering now.

Or are they doing this already?

[FritsSikkink]

Get away from the toxic attitude some old men have on messageboards, and ask Thais - simply overstaying isn't a grievous amoral act, it was a 'small problem', more of a misdemeanour / administrative infraction. Sure there's a correlation between it and serious criminality, but there are plenty of criminals with valid visas too.

Starting to blacklist overstayers isn't addressing the core issue of what attracts criminals to Thailand. I don't think they actually want to address that, instead just shift the blame. These changes really feel like part of a wider issue - one we aren't allowed to go into.

Quite sad that threads like this one run longer than ones about single internet gateways or leaders saying they'll 'close the country' like North Korea.

no visa, no work permit, no taxes but still no criminal?

only things you don't do are criminal?

I didn't say it isn't a criminal act.

But calling them 'criminals' cheapens the word crime. By extension you'd call people who accrue too many parking tickets, or ride a bike without a helmet 'criminals', and you'd be trivialising the word. Why is it that the overstay topic attracts more vitriol than much more harmful acts? I suspect deep down you simply don't want to share Thailand with too many other white faces.

i don't have issues with criminals, i just don't like people who are twisting and turning to pretend everything they do is ok and then are saying all kind of BS to people who point out the rules to them.

[FritsSikkink]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

just got my yearly retirement visa renewed and I had to sign a statement saying the above! plain and simple, you overstay, you pay!

Always confused me that the only ones required to sign this declaration are the ones already in process for a legitimate extension of stay in the country.

Would it not be better to add this declaration with your entry/departure card when you enter the country? i would imagine this would inform a lot more potential 'overstayers' than they are covering now.

Or are they doing this already?

they could give everyone a law book too

[chrisinth]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

just got my yearly retirement visa renewed and I had to sign a statement saying the above! plain and simple, you overstay, you pay!

Always confused me that the only ones required to sign this declaration are the ones already in process for a legitimate extension of stay in the country.

Would it not be better to add this declaration with your entry/departure card when you enter the country? i would imagine this would inform a lot more potential 'overstayers' than they are covering now.

Or are they doing this already?

they could give everyone a law book too

What i am getting at is, much to the disappointment of the Admin of TV , not everyone reads this forum (or any other forum for that matter) and are not privileged with the information that we are provided, to interpret as we see fit. Again, not everybody reads or watches the local media.

The only people at the minute that seem to be reminded of the overstay rules, by signing the declaration, are a group less likely of getting into trouble of overstay as they are applying for legitimate extension of stay in the country.

It may be against the wishes of TAT as being a possible negative for tourism, but these new rules of possible bans should be made available for everyone to see. By signing a declaration on entry, everybody would be aware.

No real need for a law book really..........................

[FritsSikkink]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

just got my yearly retirement visa renewed and I had to sign a statement saying the above! plain and simple, you overstay, you pay!

Always confused me that the only ones required to sign this declaration are the ones already in process for a legitimate extension of stay in the country.

Would it not be better to add this declaration with your entry/departure card when you enter the country? i would imagine this would inform a lot more potential 'overstayers' than they are covering now.

Or are they doing this already?

they could give everyone a law book too

What i am getting at is, much to the disappointment of the Admin of TV , not everyone reads this forum (or any other forum for that matter) and are not privileged with the information that we are provided, to interpret as we see fit. Again, not everybody reads or watches the local media.

The only people at the minute that seem to be reminded of the overstay rules, by signing the declaration, are a group less likely of getting into trouble of overstay as they are applying for legitimate extension of stay in the country.

It may be against the wishes of TAT as being a possible negative for tourism, but these new rules of possible bans should be made available for everyone to see. By signing a declaration on entry, everybody would be aware.

No real need for a law book really..........................

you should not overstay in the first place, no need for the rules

[Pib]

It may be against the wishes of TAT as being a possible negative for tourism, but these new rules of possible bans should be made available for everyone to see. By signing a declaration on entry, everybody would be aware.

Naw....that would just turn-off tourists upon setting foot in Thailand...put negative thoughts in the tourists minds even before they got out of the airport. Thailand wants happy tourists.

[mgjackson69]

Good about time.

How is it good?

Do overstayers impact on your lifestyle?

I am not sure about "lifestyle", but people flaunting the immigration rules brings attention to all who fall under those rules.

So you had planned to break those rules at some point, and now you're mad because someone caused the authorities to institute harsher penalties?

Never undetstand this irrational circular logic. Snitch mentality in my book.

Learn to mind your own business, keep your own house in order, and live a happy life.

I do not understand how your logic process takes "brings attention" to "he is planning to break the rules".

Increased scrutiny is a nuisance, regardless of whether one is breaking the rules or not.

[mgjackson69]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

just got my yearly retirement visa renewed and I had to sign a statement saying the above! plain and simple, you overstay, you pay!

I suspect that you received a new extension of stay based on retirement, *not* "retirement visa renewed".

As far as signing the statement regarding overstay and penalties, if I recall correctly that has been the case for my past 2 or 3 extensions.

I suspect that those who are here on extensions of stay are a very small percentage of the overstayers.

It would be interesting to see statistics on which group overstayers fall into:

- Visa exempt

- Visa or visa on arrival

- Extension of stay