'Western controlling is spreading like cancer'

[seajae]

the first 2 are pretty spot on except he should be pointing out that what most are calling for is the police to actually enforce the rules laws they now have, the police are there to make people obey the law but they simply refuse to come out of their air conditioned offices unless they can make an extra dollar from it. The people do as they please because they know the laws are not enforced, this is what I would think the majority of westerners want to be fixed then there would not be a lot of the problems especially the first 2 he mentions as again the police would be able to stop them by actually doing their job. Not obeying the road rules or any other laws, graft and corruption would also come under this but then so many of the police would also ned to be arrested for what they do, its a never ending circle

[Cypress Hill]

I have never seen Thais listening to Westerners.. all things that change come from Thais themselves.. not from Western influences we have zero influence here.

Just the way it ought to be

If that were true, why then is it that John Arnonne and others are so concerned over western influence?

Thai society is changing, westerners in Thailand are part of that change and are influence part of that change.

John Arnonne and those who support his point of view are playing the part of <deleted> (I assure you I have spelled that correctly)

If what were true?

Who says the Westerners influencing change in Thailand comes from the Westerners here?

Wider access to information is more responsible for the change in Thailand than the actual presence of Westerners in their land.

When I got here in '08, very few Thai people had smartphones and/or internet access.

There were still tons of Westerners here but, IMO, the adoption of certain Western traits has largely coincided with mass internet penetration, not the presence of a bunch of aging economic migrants and sex refugees

[MaeJoMTB]

There were still tons of Westerners here but, IMO, the adoption of certain Western traits has largely coincided with mass internet penetration, not the presence of a bunch of aging economic migrants and sex refugees

And Hollywood.

[NanLaew]

John Arnonne should spend some time working with the victims of domestic violence. He might then understand that protecting people against violent abuse is not a cancer.

You should spend some time working with men who lost their homes and children because of false accusations of domestic violence. Then you might understand why some men no longer care about such foolishness.

Did all these "men who lost their homes and children because of false accusations of domestic violence" lose it all in Thailand? Or are we still importing excess baggage?

PS: A good lawyer isn't cheap... but well worth it. Ask the ex-.

Back on topic, the author of the article in the OP laments the demise of Thailand as a "...a peaceful, fun-loving country...". If he remembers that, he must be as old as Methuselah.... but still writes like a bairn.

Edited January 14, 2016 by NanLaew

[robblok]

I have never seen Thais listening to Westerners.. all things that change come from Thais themselves.. not from Western influences we have zero influence here.

Just the way it ought to be

If that were true, why then is it that John Arnonne and others are so concerned over western influence?

Thai society is changing, westerners in Thailand are part of that change and are influence part of that change.

John Arnonne and those who support his point of view are playing the part of <deleted> (I assure you I have spelled that correctly)

That Thailand is changing is a fact but everywhere in the world things change. But I really think that Western influence is not a large part of it (at least not in the fields they are discussing here). Sure Thailand is also changing under Western pressure but that is more about fishing and air-travel. The points made by John Arnonne are not things that are being changed by Western influence.

Those are my views anyway.

[kannot]

I have never seen Thais listening to Westerners.. all things that change come from Thais themselves.. not from Western influences we have zero influence here.

Just the way it ought to be

If that were true, why then is it that John Arnonne and others are so concerned over western influence?

Thai society is changing, westerners in Thailand are part of that change and are influence part of that change.

John Arnonne and those who support his point of view are playing the part of <deleted> (I assure you I have spelled that correctly)

If what were true?

Who says the Westerners influencing change in Thailand comes from the Westerners here?

Wider access to information is more responsible for the change in Thailand than the actual presence of Westerners in their land.

When I got here in '08, very few Thai people had smartphones and/or internet access.

There were still tons of Westerners here but, IMO, the adoption of certain Western traits has largely coincided with mass internet penetration, not the presence of a bunch of aging economic migrants and sex refugees

Which is of course what we all are

Thailand needs change desperately

[craigt3365]

John Arnonne should spend some time working with the victims of domestic violence. He might then understand that protecting people against violent abuse is not a cancer.

You should spend some time working with men who lost their homes and children because of false accusations of domestic violence. Then you might understand why some men no longer care about such foolishness.

Or perhaps spend time with the countless more women who are abused on a daily basis. Some are beaten to death, along with children. I dare say the ratio is massively in their favor.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Divorce-domestic-abuse-on-the-rise-in-Thailand-30208767.html

Although the survey found that family members communicated more, domestic violence continued to rise, with 30.8 per cent of the households reporting abuse in 2012, she said.

Many of the families reporting domestic violence had at least one member addicted to gambling, she said. Spousal cheating has also increased, hence the rate of divorce had risen from 10.8 per cent in 2009 to 12.8 per cent in 2010, 12.6 per cent in 2011 and 33 per cent in 2012.

"The family situation in Thailand is fragile due to risky behaviour related to vices, like alcoholism and gambling. Plus, more elderly people are being left home alone," she said.

Perhaps some new laws from the so called nanny states would be a good thing here. As far as Western influence, many Thais travel overseas, get educated there, have jobs there, etc. I dare say they are the ones trying to change their society for the better. Congrats to them.

[wow64]

Wife beater needing justification.

[fey]

Controlling is everywhere, it's just controlling different things. Not limited to western countries.

So take your pick what freedoms you want, free speech, whores, ability to appear in public without a veil, many others.

[Jingthing]

Everything's a cancer these days.

Cancer schmancer.

My toe fungus is a cancer.

My neighbor's cooking smells are a cancer.

The lack of decent Mexican food in Pattaya is a cancer.

I could go on!

Edited January 16, 2016 by Jingthing

[fey]

In my idea the problem is Thai...

Too many of them here ;-)

I can understand that you don't like to be around the Thais. But the fact that you chose to live in the only place on the planet where there are predominately Thais can only mean that you're either a masochist or the stupidest man alive.

No, could be that its cheaper, great food, good weather, easy sex...

[MaeJoMTB]

I can understand that you don't like to be around the Thais. But the fact that you chose to live in the only place on the planet where there are predominately Thais can only mean that you're either a masochist or the stupidest man alive.

No, could be that its cheaper, great food, good weather, easy sex...

Not to mention, most foreigners don't mix with Thais, they are just the serving staff.

[ammagic]

Freedom in a military regime ?!! Delusional or what?

[HenryB]

Silly article,crappily written. I hope John Arnonne is an ESL student and not a native speaker.

If this is not Controlling Society why so many in Jail

Higher amount per 100,000 than most EU Countries in Jail

[MonkeyLoo]

Some good points by Mr John Arnone. But I feel it could have been summed up by saying Thailand has three major problems

Corruption, Corruption & Education

Go do some ironing John...............

[harrry]

In my formerly sabai sabai condo a small group of owners are on a crusade to enforce every possible rule in the books, as is their right. But it certainly feels like they are taking some of the "thainess" out of the joint.

Are they Thai laws they are enforcing....if so how are they taking thainess away?

[craigt3365]

In my formerly sabai sabai condo a small group of owners are on a crusade to enforce every possible rule in the books, as is their right. But it certainly feels like they are taking some of the "thainess" out of the joint.

Are they Thai laws they are enforcing....if so how are they taking thainess away?

By not allowing them to break the condo rules and regulations. Congrats to the small group of owners. The biggest rule they like to break is not to pay the monthly dues. A necessity to keep things running properly.

[piersbeckett]

The only problem with Thai laws is--they are subject to change at any moment and dependent on your attitude check (when at a government establishment). Don't make the mistake of thinking western methods of assertiveness are going to work for you in Thailand. They won't. If anything, they will dig you a bit deeper into that hole that is pissing you off in the first place...

That's right. The Thai system is very different from, for example, the U.K. system - I think you could argue that the Thais put people before the law not the other way round.

The rule of law in the U.K. has not been adhered to and insufficient control measures implemented regarding foreigners who are not of the belief that when in Rome one should do as the Romans do, in other words the U'K's 'controlling' system has broken down when faced with religious/political opposition to the extent where it is that opposition's 'controlling' that is spreading like cancer.

Excepting anarchy, there has to be a line drawn regarding freedom, a balance to uphold security and contentment but if you believe in democracy that must include the possibility of government of which you disagree hence the need for involvement in political matters, education from history and informed opinion and, of course, free speech.

The Thai system doesn't allow for admitting large numbers of foreigners into the country and giving them voting & property-owning rights; they are very 'controlling' in that way!

Edited January 17, 2016 by piersbeckett

[DavisH]

I have never seen Thais listening to Westerners.. all things that change come from Thais themselves.. not from Western influences we have zero influence here.

That explains why change is so slow here....They would rather "figure things out for themselves" - aka reinvent the wheel, rather than looking to more developed nations who have already been through these problems. Face is everything, even if they are 50 years behind the rest of the world. Just look at the use (or lack thereof) of calculators in government schools - banned here, and also not allowed to be used in national entrance exams.

[DavisH]

In my formerly sabai sabai condo a small group of owners are on a crusade to enforce every possible rule in the books, as is their right. But it certainly feels like they are taking some of the "thainess" out of the joint.

Are they Thai laws they are enforcing....if so how are they taking thainess away?

By not allowing them to break the condo rules and regulations. Congrats to the small group of owners. The biggest rule they like to break is not to pay the monthly dues. A necessity to keep things running properly.

The tenants face legal action if they do not pay the village fees. That is the way is should be, or else services are lost and the place gets run down.

[neverdie]

Everything's a cancer these days.

Cancer schmancer.

My toe fungus is a cancer.

My neighbor's cooking smells are a cancer.

The lack of decent Mexican food in Pattaya is a cancer.

I could go on!

And you normally do.

[rogeroc]

That explains why change is so slow here....They would rather "figure things out for themselves" - aka reinvent the wheel, rather than looking to more developed nations who have already been through these problems. Face is everything, even if they are 50 years behind the rest of the world. Just look at the use (or lack thereof) of calculators in government schools - banned here, and also not allowed to be used in national entrance exams.

How strange then that all bar and restaurant staff in Thailand have to use a calculator even to add up 50 plus 50

[joeyg]

I don`t think Farlangs living in Thailand have a lot of influence on the Thai people, even if they think they do. The Thais have us firmly under control.

The Farlangs that do decide to live here expect Thailand to be like a home from home with the same principles and service levels but at vastly cheaper rates believing they can bend the rules to suit them by paying money or knowing the right people. They are pig headed whereas in the their own countries would be living on basic pensions or just ordinary working class then think they are the elite when they arrive in Thailand because their money goes further and are of a higher cast then the average working class Thais. All they do once here is complain about the system and flatly refuse to step into the Thai world. These Farlangs even have low tolerance levels for each other considering themselves to be more upmarket and superior compared to other expats. The older ones seem to be the worse believing that the world owes them respect and certain privileges above everyone else.

Too many of these types in Thailand now.

Old people should be respected everywhere. I will routinely offer my seat to an elderly person. I'm healthy and strong at 63. I will also help them on and off bhat buses and full sized rigs and help them with their bags. Rarely see a Thai doing that. Although it does happen...

[ffaarraanngg]

I don`t think Farlangs living in Thailand have a lot of influence on the Thai people, even if they think they do. The Thais have us firmly under control.

The Farlangs that do decide to live here expect Thailand to be like a home from home with the same principles and service levels but at vastly cheaper rates believing they can bend the rules to suit them by paying money or knowing the right people. They are pig headed whereas in the their own countries would be living on basic pensions or just ordinary working class then think they are the elite when they arrive in Thailand because their money goes further and are of a higher cast then the average working class Thais. All they do once here is complain about the system and flatly refuse to step into the Thai world. These Farlangs even have low tolerance levels for each other considering themselves to be more upmarket and superior compared to other expats. The older ones seem to be the worse believing that the world owes them respect and certain privileges above everyone else.

Too many of these types in Thailand now.

Old people should be respected everywhere. I will routinely offer my seat to an elderly person. I'm healthy and strong at 63. I will also help them on and off bhat buses and full sized rigs and help them with their bags. Rarely see a Thai doing that. Although it does happen...

I to would assist someone struggling no matter what their age, But as someone who is not a fan of the British boomer generation and finds many to be the most up themselves folk ever created, i wholly reject the notion that people should be respected purely on the basis that they haven't yet died.

[tlock]

In my formerly sabai sabai condo a small group of owners are on a crusade to enforce every possible rule in the books, as is their right. But it certainly feels like they are taking some of the "thainess" out of the joint.

Are they Thai laws they are enforcing....if so how are they taking thainess away?

By not allowing them to break the condo rules and regulations. Congrats to the small group of owners. The biggest rule they like to break is not to pay the monthly dues. A necessity to keep things running properly.

The tenants face legal action if they do not pay the village fees. That is the way is should be, or else services are lost and the place gets run down.

Hmmm- No I mean things like they voted to ban hanging laundry on the balcony and drinking beer at the pool.

[Berkshire]

Old people should be respected everywhere. I will routinely offer my seat to an elderly person. I'm healthy and strong at 63. I will also help them on and off bhat buses and full sized rigs and help them with their bags. Rarely see a Thai doing that. Although it does happen...

Do you see a lot of farangs doing this? I don't...most people sort of just mind their own business. By the way, people who are generous and kind don't typically brag about it on anonymous forums.