Netanyahu says UN chief Ban Ki-moon 'encouraging terror'

[Scott]

Apartheid is off-topic and continuing to discuss it will result in suspensions.

Stick to the topic.

[Steely Dan]

Nearly the same is long way from APARTHEID. Every country on earth has a few minor laws that are not exactly the same for minorities and the majority of the poulation. Trying to call that "Apartheid" is downright idiotic.

Withdrawn, didn't see your post Scott. Perhaps a strict on topic rule should be set for all Israel related topics to stop the 24/7 demonization brigade using this forum as a general soapbox for their agendas. Edited January 30, 2016 by Steely Dan

[Ulysses G.]

it shows that they counter your argument that Jews were there first in large numbers.

Jews have been living in the Palestine area continuously for more than 3,000 years and their numbers went up and down. Your chart is a window into a very short period of time.

[casualbiker]

it shows that they counter your argument that Jews were there first in large numbers.

Jews have been living in the Palestine area continuously for more than 3,000 years and their numbers went up and down. Your chart is a window into a very short period of time.

And if your reading comprehension was up to speed you would have seen that I validated that!

[Ulysses G.]

I missed the part when you admitted that Jingthing was correct.

[casualbiker]

I missed the part when you admitted that Jingthing was correct.

My point is in large numbers. Obviously Jews were in the area because it tells us that in that fantastic Best short stories book the Bible. The point being that at the time of the creation of the Jewish state. There were more Arabs (Palestinians) than Jews. And the land that was agreed to be sectioned off as Palestinian (Arab) lands have been stolen by Israel. Is that clear enough for you?

[dexterm]

World sympathy for the Palestinians flew out the window in the 1970s. Those blokes managed to turn-off, even their staunchest supporters (myself included), with all that airplane high-jacking crap, and their cocky, antagonistic attitudes. I've worked with Palestinians, in the U.S. corporate world. On the average, they (Palestinians) are truly an impossible bunch of people to get along with. The average Israeli, on the other hand, is a far more delightful person to inter-act with, by comparison.

You're living in the past. Since then the world has changed, and the palestians are now recognised by UN and many countries.

They were recognized when offered their own countryin 1948, which they refused. The Palestinians have been turning down peace deals and murdering innocent civilians for the last 70 years. Officially "recognizing" them is LONG way from taking their side.

It is already, but obviously the occident think they are alone to decide who can be a member of the club

Countries recognizing Palestine as a state so far :

..and the list is growing.

To add weight to Ban Ki Moon's comments.

[French] Foreign minister says Israeli "colonisation continues" and if renewed efforts collapse, France will recognise Palestine.

"France will engage in the coming weeks in the preparation of an international conference bringing together the parties and their main partners, American, European, Arab, notably to preserve and make happen the two-state solution," French Foreign Affairs Minister Laurent Fabius said on Friday.

If this last attempt at finding a solution hits a wall, "well ... in this case, we need to face our responsibilities by recognising the Palestinian state," said the minister.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/01/france-recognise-palestine-talks-fail-160129200230335.html

...after Greece moves to recognize Palestine last month.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/greece-moves-recognise-state-palestine-151221095440249.html

I hope talks are successful and that israel listens to world opinion and comes to its senses in a 2 state solution. Before full EU sanctions become inevitable.

[Jingthing]

English version of Yair Lapid's response to Moon:

https://www.facebook.com/YairLapid/?fref=nf

The United Nations Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, said today that 'the terror wave is a natural response to the occupation.'

There are millions of people in the world whose lives are harder than those of the Palestinians. In Africa, in Asia, in the Middle East. There are hundreds of millions of people in the world for whom the UN didn't create a special body and to whom the UN didn't send billions of dollars (and then stood to one side while a corrupt government stole it).

For some reason those people don't think there is anything, anything at all, which gives them license to take a knife and stab a mother of six. To take a knife and stab a woman who is five months pregnant. To take a knife and stab a wonderful 23 year old who had never harmed anyone.

Terrorism against innocent civilians can not be justified, no-one should provide excuses for it. No-one, especially not the UN Secretary General, should say that terrorism is the result of something. Terrorism against innocent civilians is the result of nothing except the murderous insanity of the perpetrators

[Jingthing]

I missed the part when you admitted that Jingthing was correct.

My point is in large numbers. Obviously Jews were in the area because it tells us that in that fantastic Best short stories book the Bible. The point being that at the time of the creation of the Jewish state. There were more Arabs (Palestinians) than Jews. And the land that was agreed to be sectioned off as Palestinian (Arab) lands have been stolen by Israel. Is that clear enough for you?

That is a very DISTORTED post which ignores so much of history.

Archaeology fully supports the facts that Jews have been there for thousands of years, populations ebbing and flowing through the centuries.

You can forget the bible when looking at archaeology.

Zionism started as a POLITICAL (not a theocratic) movement LONG BEFORE WW2.

The idea was (and is) about political self determination for the Jewish people.

Israel wasn't even the only land considered by early Zionists but of course it was the most logical area based on history.

The fact that multiple Arab / Muslim nations ATTACKED the original U.N. Israel borders immediately after Israel became an official state conveniently not mentioned. If they had accepted the existence of Israel in the first place, the resulting history would have been massively different, but they didn't.

Israel demonization isn't about a balanced conversation. It's about cheerleading for terrorists, wearing cool scarves and marching in "River to the sea" pro genocide parades, covering up the history of the utter hostility of the Arab and Muslim world to Israel's existence, and working towards ending the state of Israel from people who never accepted it in the FIRST PLACE.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Jingthing

[casualbiker]

I missed the part when you admitted that Jingthing was correct.

My point is in large numbers. Obviously Jews were in the area because it tells us that in that fantastic Best short stories book the Bible. The point being that at the time of the creation of the Jewish state. There were more Arabs (Palestinians) than Jews. And the land that was agreed to be sectioned off as Palestinian (Arab) lands have been stolen by Israel. Is that clear enough for you?

That is a very DISTORTED post which ignores so much of history.

Archaeology fully supports the facts that Jews have been there for thousands of years, populations ebbing and flowing through the centuries.

You can forget the bible when looking at archaeology.

Zionism started as a POLITICAL (not a theocratic) movement LONG BEFORE WW2.

The idea was (and is) about political self determination for the Jewish people.

Israel wasn't even the only land considered by early Zionists but of course it was the most logical area based on history.

The fact that multiple Arab / Muslim nations ATTACKED the original U.N. Israel borders immediately after Israel became an official state conveniently not mentioned. If they had accepted the existence of Israel in the first place, the resulting history would have been massively different, but they didn't.

Israel demonization isn't about a balanced conversation. It's about cheerleading for terrorists, wearing cool scarves and marching in "River to the sea" pro genocide parades, covering up the history of the utter hostility of the Arab and Muslim world to Israel's existence, and working towards ending the state of Israel from people who never accepted it in the FIRST PLACE.

WHAT a rubbish response! You always accuse other posters of Israel demonization and YOU manager to get away with it. Even though many posters have given decent information. I know bloody well the moderators will not do anything about it. The same as they didn't with your rhetoric on the gay thread. So I'm out of here!

[Jingthing]

Your description of the history was horribly distorted anti-Israel propaganda so it deserved a correction. You can't talk about the early U.N. history without mentioning the immediate ATTACK from the Arab and Muslim world ... MULTIPLE nations. They lost. If they had won, there would be no Israel. If they had peacefully accepted, just imagine.

You said it was AGREED. It was NOT AGREED. The Arab and Muslim world NEVER agreed. They attacked.

Also you snarkily implied the only evidence of Jews in that region for thousands of years was the bible when of course that's a total falsehood which invited correction.

Jews indeed are the dominant demographic in ISRAEL but please look at a MAP. Jews are a TINY ethno-religious group with a TINY SPECK of land compared to the sea of Arabs and Muslim dominated nations surrounding them.

In the world, about half the Jews are in Israel and the other half elsewhere. Total about 14 million. Many cities have more people.

Compare to the world population of Muslims and Arabs. Total about 1.4 BILLION.

Surely when there are over 50 nations dominated by Muslim populations, the ONE TINY Israel deserves to exist and defend itself from so many forces seeking it's destruction. Including ONLINE ones.

If you post GROSS biased distortions, you invite responses. Simple as that.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Jingthing

[casualbiker]

Your description of the history was horribly distorted anti-Israel propaganda so it deserved a correction. You can't talk about the early U.N. history without mentioning the immediate ATTACK from the Arab and Muslim world ... MULTIPLE nations. They lost. If they had won, there would be no Israel. If they had peacefully accepted, just imagine.

You said it was AGREED. It was NOT AGREED. The Arab and Muslim world NEVER agreed. They attacked.

Also you snarkily implied the only evidence of Jews in that region for thousands of years was the bible when of course that's a total falsehood which invited correction.

Jews indeed are the dominant demographic in ISRAEL but please look at a MAP. Jews are a TINY ethno-religious group with a TINY SPECK of land compared to the sea of Arabs and Muslim dominated nations surrounding them.

In the world, about half the Jews are in Israel and the other half elsewhere. Total about 14 million. Many cities have more people.

Compare to the world population of Muslims and Arabs. Total about 1.4 BILLION.

Surely when there are over 50 nations dominated by Muslim populations, the ONE TINY Israel deserves to exist and defend itself from so many forces seeking it's destruction. Including ONLINE ones.

If you post GROSS biased distortions, you invite responses. Simple as that.

absolute rubbish again. My post merely showed that at the start of the state of Israel there were more Palestinians than Jews. Information backed up by a picture of a census conducted by the British. Other posters have shown that Israel has systematically stolen land that was not legally theirs (you have admitted this has happened) I made a tongue in cheek comment about the Bible. We do know that Jews lived in the area before 1948 I don't think ANYONE including myself have EVER said otherwise. Any implications were in your own mind! Again you are insinuating that other posters on this forum are anti semantic and want the destruction of Israel. I'm surprised that is allowed but I have noticed that you do get a LOT of leeway with this forum. Personally I dislike when a person cannot reasonably discuss a topic without being called anti this or that!

From wiki: On the same day, the Provisional Government of Israel asked the US Government for recognition, on the frontiers specified in the UN Plan for Partition.[74] The United States immediately replied, recognizing "the provisional government as the de facto authority."[75] Israel was also quickly recognised by the Soviet Union[citation needed]and many other countries,[citation needed] but not by the surrounding Arab states.

At the same time that the state of Israel was being declared the Haganah took over formerly British-controlled areas in Jerusalem. As the mandate era came to an end, radical Jewish forces, from whose actions the Haganah distanced themselves, began to clear Palestinian Arab communitiesin the area which would become Israel.[76]

On 15 May 1948, the Palestine Mandate ended and the State of Israel came into being. The Palestine Government formally ceased to exist, the status of British forces still in the process of withdrawal from Haifa changed to occupiers of foreign territory, and allMandatory Palestine passports ceased to give British protection.[65][77]

Over the next few days, approximately 700 Lebanese, 1,876 Syrian, 4,000 Iraqi, 2,800 Egyptian troops crossed over the borders and into Palestine (see 1948 Arab-Israeli War).[78]Around 4,500 Transjordanian troops, moved into areas designated as part of the Arab state by the UN partition plan.

You are correct I made I mistake when I stated that the UN partition plan had been agreed by all parties. It hadn't been agreed the the Arab leaders. From the wiki it looks like both sides were fighting for what was in the plan.. As in a clear partition of states.. But obviously you will say that's NOT the case you will tell me that the Arab nations wanted to take over all of Israel. So to do that they sent a total of 63,000 mixed soldiers to fight 117,000 Israeli soldiers (many battle hardened from action in ww2)

[Jingthing]

So your argument is those invading forces were not trying to destroy the new Jewish state of Israel? I can't be bothered to waste my time on such twisted silliness. Ignore list time.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MF1948.html

FACT

The Arabs made clear they would go to war to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would “fight for every inch of their country.”1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews. 2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee’s spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench “the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood. . . .”3

Edited January 30, 2016 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I missed the part when you admitted that Jingthing was correct.

My point is in large numbers. Obviously Jews were in the area because it tells us that in that fantastic Best short stories book the Bible. The point being that at the time of the creation of the Jewish state. There were more Arabs (Palestinians) than Jews.

And who has ever said otherwise besides YOU? You are making up stupid statements to pretend to "reply" to, that are nothing but Red Herrings. Why do the anti-Israel types have to post mostly lies to make their point?

[arjunadawn]

I missed the part when you admitted that Jingthing was correct.

My point is in large numbers. Obviously Jews were in the area because it tells us that in that fantastic Best short stories book the Bible. The point being that at the time of the creation of the Jewish state. There were more Arabs (Palestinians) than Jews. And the land that was agreed to be sectioned off as Palestinian (Arab) lands have been stolen by Israel. Is that clear enough for you?

That is a very DISTORTED post which ignores so much of history.

Archaeology fully supports the facts that Jews have been there for thousands of years, populations ebbing and flowing through the centuries.

You can forget the bible when looking at archaeology.

Zionism started as a POLITICAL (not a theocratic) movement LONG BEFORE WW2.

The idea was (and is) about political self determination for the Jewish people.

Israel wasn't even the only land considered by early Zionists but of course it was the most logical area based on history.

The fact that multiple Arab / Muslim nations ATTACKED the original U.N. Israel borders immediately after Israel became an official state conveniently not mentioned. If they had accepted the existence of Israel in the first place, the resulting history would have been massively different, but they didn't.

Israel demonization isn't about a balanced conversation. It's about cheerleading for terrorists, wearing cool scarves and marching in "River to the sea" pro genocide parades, covering up the history of the utter hostility of the Arab and Muslim world to Israel's existence, and working towards ending the state of Israel from people who never accepted it in the FIRST PLACE.

Just one correction. The Arabs actually did accept this land for the jews to lock in their own lands in the deal carving up the french and British mandates. It was then after signing on to it that they reneged, urged the populations to move, and attacked the nascent state.

[canthai55]

This Forum - as all Media - is a microcosm of what is happening all over the world. Israeli Government will not change - no matter who or how many people tell them they are wrong. Even an attempt at meaningful dialogue with Palestine is antithema to them. I fear that things will need to get much worse before they get any better - if they ever do. One thing to Fear in the world is Fanatics - of any stripe and any persuation. They are so sure their cause is just that they will never listen to the opinions of others. Just blindly follow their own narrow, short-sighted course of action until some one grabs them by their short and curlies and forces them to change. Just a shame that they seem to have taken this quote to heart - Caligula: Let them hate me, so long as they fear me.

[Ulysses G.]

you will tell me that the Arab nations wanted to take over Israel

DESTROY Israel and it is a historical FACT.

If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea. Even if we are beaten now in Palestine, we will never submit. We will never accept the Jewish state...

- Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood founder

(New York Times, August 2, 1948)

Edited January 31, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[casualbiker]

I missed the part when you admitted that Jingthing was correct.

My point is in large numbers. Obviously Jews were in the area because it tells us that in that fantastic Best short stories book the Bible. The point being that at the time of the creation of the Jewish state. There were more Arabs (Palestinians) than Jews.

And who has ever said otherwise besides YOU? You are making up stupid statements to pretend to "reply" to, that are nothing but Red Herrings. Why do the anti-Israel types have to post mostly lies to make their point?

I can't see a single lie in any of my posts about Israel. I did make one mistake about the partition plan being recognized by the Arabs. This is a normal ploy by you and Jingting to call people anti Israel or other names. I am not anti Israel. I am anti Israel breaking international laws while hiding behind the USA. I suspect that all the posters on here that are name calling are in fact American Jews!

[Ulysses G.]

I suspect that all the posters on here that are name calling are in fact American Jews!

Always blaming the Jews - no surprise there.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

English version of Yair Lapid's response to Moon:

https://www.facebook.com/YairLapid/?fref=nf

The United Nations Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, said today that 'the terror wave is a natural response to the occupation.'

There are millions of people in the world whose lives are harder than those of the Palestinians. In Africa, in Asia, in the Middle East. There are hundreds of millions of people in the world for whom the UN didn't create a special body and to whom the UN didn't send billions of dollars (and then stood to one side while a corrupt government stole it).

For some reason those people don't think there is anything, anything at all, which gives them license to take a knife and stab a mother of six. To take a knife and stab a woman who is five months pregnant. To take a knife and stab a wonderful 23 year old who had never harmed anyone.

Terrorism against innocent civilians can not be justified, no-one should provide excuses for it. No-one, especially not the UN Secretary General, should say that terrorism is the result of something. Terrorism against innocent civilians is the result of nothing except the murderous insanity of the perpetrators

Isn't it strange how Haaretz and global news sources including the OP printed Ban Ki Moon's words spoken in ENGLISH verbatim "As oppressed peoples have demonstrated throughout the ages, it is human nature to react to occupation."

http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.699686

Yet when Yair Lapid translates it into Hebrew then back to English Moon's words "react to occupation" suddenly become a "terror wave".

It does Israel no service at all for the ex Israeli Finance Minister to publish such transparent propaganda and an easily checkable lie.

[dexterm]

So your argument is those invading forces were not trying to destroy the new Jewish state of Israel? I can't be bothered to waste my time on such twisted silliness. Ignore list time.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MF1948.html

FACT

The Arabs made clear they would go to war to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would “fight for every inch of their country.”1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews. 2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee’s spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench “the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood. . . .”3

Whatever the topic concerning Palestine the Israeli apologists always regurgitate this same old chestnut debunked many times before: the Palestinians are guilty because they resisted the invasion of hundreds of thousands of invading Europeans who were determined to establish a Jewish State by displacing the existing residents.

We have the old myth that the innocent underdog Israel was the victim of a sudden unprovoked attack by 5 Arab armies on 15th May 1948.The truth is the exact opposite.

Israel as usual fired the first shot months before. Israeli pseudo history never mentions or explains....

Deir Yassin Massacre April 9th 1948

Tiberias occupied April 19th 1948

Haifa April 22nd

Jaffa April 28th

the Arab quarters in the New City of Jerusalem April 30th

Beisan May 8th

Safad May 10th

Acre on May 14th 1948.

When surrounding Arab armies did finally respond on May 15th, it was a case of Palestinian lions led by donkeys. The British had had a hand it already a decade earlier rounding up, executing, and exiling Palestinian leadership, and disarming any Palestinian resitance. Ord Wingate even actively assisted Jewish terrorist gangs.

Bribed and threatened by USA and Israel the corrupt leaders of 3 of the 5 Arab armies never even fought abandoning the outnumbered Palestinians to fight against a better armed, financed and organized Israeli army.

Just because the bully wins aided by his big brother does not make it right.

For the full true story try...

http://www.palestineremembered.com/

[up-country_sinclair]

English version of Yair Lapid's response to Moon:

https://www.facebook.com/YairLapid/?fref=nf

The United Nations Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, said today that 'the terror wave is a natural response to the occupation.'

There are millions of people in the world whose lives are harder than those of the Palestinians. In Africa, in Asia, in the Middle East. There are hundreds of millions of people in the world for whom the UN didn't create a special body and to whom the UN didn't send billions of dollars (and then stood to one side while a corrupt government stole it).

For some reason those people don't think there is anything, anything at all, which gives them license to take a knife and stab a mother of six. To take a knife and stab a woman who is five months pregnant. To take a knife and stab a wonderful 23 year old who had never harmed anyone.

Terrorism against innocent civilians can not be justified, no-one should provide excuses for it. No-one, especially not the UN Secretary General, should say that terrorism is the result of something. Terrorism against innocent civilians is the result of nothing except the murderous insanity of the perpetrators

Isn't it strange how Haaretz and global news sources including the OP printed Ban Ki Moon's words spoken in ENGLISH verbatim "As oppressed peoples have demonstrated throughout the ages, it is human nature to react to occupation."

http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.699686

Yet when Yair Lapid translates it into Hebrew then back to English Moon's words "react to occupation" suddenly become a "terror wave".

It does Israel no service at all for the ex Israeli Finance Minister to publish such transparent propaganda and an easily checkable lie.

The occupiers and their apologists have been deliberately mistranslating Arabic quotes for decades in order to manipulate well-meaning Americans and Europeans. Due to technological advances, people have become aware of this deceitful propaganda.

[Steely Dan]

Am I wrong?

Continually.

As well as being off topic and breaking forum rules.

[casualbiker]

Am I wrong?

Continually.

As well as being off topic and breaking forum rules.

really? Why?

[casualbiker]

There you go again. Please stick to the topic of the thread and discontinue the stupid insults.

huh. Who is insulting who. I haven't insulted any one. Jinthing and you have been calling people demonizing anti Jews/Israel. But deflection always seems to work!

I merely asked how I was breaking forum rules!

Edited January 31, 2016 by casualbiker

[Jingthing]

There you go again. Please stick to the topic of the thread and discontinue the stupid insults.

I suggest the ignore list for such cases.

[Chicog]

People seem quick to confuse "being "anti-Israel" with "anti-Israel-driving-people-off-their-land-into-ghettos-and-making-their-lives-a-living-hell".

I realise that the issue of Jerusalem is probably the sticking point, but to me the solution is for Israel to agree to a two-state solution (yes, that means returning some of the land they've stolen) and the UN to declare Jerusalem an independent World Heritage site with no owners and open to all.

If either side can't accept that, nuke the bloody thing.

[Pakboong]

I feel like i have read pretty much everything written on this subject. The Chicken or the Egg story doesn't really interest me. My favorite source on the subject is:

The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

By Jews for Justice in the Middle East
Published in Berkeley, CA, 2001
Jews for Justice has made this excellent resource available to people around the world. We have converted their booklet to a more easily copied format. Download it!

Written by Jews with many references that are Jewish. The story is very believable and to the degree it can be, interesting.

[Jingthing]

Somethings fishy there in that SOURCE.

Always worth checking out SOURCES.

Particularly so from members with a long history of posting Neo-Nazi, holocaust denying sources such as Rense (if you're not a neo-Nazi only go there to verify there are still Nazis and perhaps to vomit).

I can't find a link for this supposed organization Jews for Justice in the Middle East organization (weird that), but it is a classic Israel demonizing tactic to exploit the minority of far left wing Jews (even imaginary Jews) for propaganda purposes. Ultra religious anti-Zionists (there aren't many but they exist) are also exploited for propaganda this way.

As far as the If Americans Knew source that is a totally biased, obsessive Israel demonizing source. I focus on If Americans Knew because they are the DISTRIBUTOR of that pamphlet and they have a massive web presence. Jews for Justice in the Middle East doesn't. Like I said, couldn't even find a link. Fishy, huh?

Some background on If Americans Knew.

Americans should know more about If Americans Knew ...

http://www.minndakjcrc.org/executive-directors-commentary-published-in-the-argus-leader.html

Within this context, enter Alison Weir from "If Americans Knew," which describes itself as "a clear-sighted view of the [israeli-Palestinian Conflict] that is free of partisan perspectives or preconceptions and that relies exclusively on facts-based analysis." Though Ms. Weir presents a mild mannered persona in her current South Dakota speaking tour, which included a fair and challenging interview with the Argus Leader's Patrick Lalley, her conspiracy minded belief that Israel is at the heart of all that is wrong with the Middle East quickly reveals her hateful bias. No wonder, the ADL has noted that "Alison Weir's criticism of Israel has, at times, crossed the line into distortions customarily found in the literature of anti-Semites."
...

DELETED

Edited January 31, 2016 by seedy
long quote

[seedy]

Post Edited - Forum Rule - 14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.