US warship sails near disputed island in South China Sea

[rooster59]

US warship sails near disputed island in South China Sea

BANGKOK (AP) — A U.S. warship sailed near a disputed island in the South China Sea on Saturday to exercise the U.S.'s freedom to navigate in international waters, a defense official said.

The USS Curtis Wilbur destroyer sailed within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island, in the Paracels chain, without notifying the three claimants to the surrounding seas beforehand, according to Defense Department spokesman Mark Wright in Washington.

China, Taiwan and Vietnam have claims in the Paracels and require prior notice from ships transiting in nearby waters. Wright said the claimants' attempts to restrict navigational rights by requiring prior notice are inconsistent with international law.

China later responded that the U.S. ship's actions violated Chinese law. "The Chinese side conducted surveillance and vocal warnings to the U.S. warship," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said, according to the official Xinhua News Agency.

Wright reiterated that while insisting on freedom of navigation, the United States took no position on the competing territorial claims to natural islands in the South China Sea.

In October, another U.S. warship sailed in the disputed Spratly Islands near Subi Reef, where China has built an artificial island.

U.S. officials said after that operation that such ship movements would be regular in the future.

China says virtually the entire South China Sea and its islands, reefs and atolls are its sovereign territory, although five other regional governments have overlapping claims.

The area has some of the world's busiest shipping lanes, and U.S. officials say ensuring freedom of navigation there is in U.S. national interests.

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-01-31

[OMGImInPattaya]

And all China can do is huff and puff ?

[craigt3365]

Seems like the US deals with this a bit better. Even when the waters are not contested.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/gordon-g-chang/chinese-warships-sail-american-waters

Last Thursday, the Pentagon confirmed five Chinese warships had sailed within 12 nautical miles of the Alaskan coast. The US, in accordance with international law, claims as territorial water a band of sea extending 12 miles from its shores. The Chinese vessels, therefore, entered American waters.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Scott
Edited for Fair Use

[impulse]

In this version of the children's story, China's the mouse, the S China Sea is the cookie, and the rest of SE Asia is the milk.

[daboyz1]

China is a bit delusional in it's territorial claims:

[craigt3365]

Can't wait for the world court ruling on this. And China's reaction....LOL

[55Jay]

The US said it doesn't take a position on the disputed territory claim but it has, and demonstrates it by sailing purposefully within 12nm.

Interesting read (Craig's link). The Aleutians are bristling with USW sensors and I have little doubt there was also a US submarine shadowing the noisy Chinese surface combatants, as well as Sarah Palin in her front yard with binoculars and a .30.06 rifle, keeping an extra eye on those communist rascals. You betcha!

[craigt3365]

The US said it doesn't take a position on the disputed territory claim but it has, and demonstrates it by sailing purposefully within 12nm.

Interesting read (Craig's link). The Aleutians are bristling with USW sensors and I have little doubt there was also a US submarine shadowing the noisy Chinese surface combatants, as well as Sarah Palin in her front yard with binoculars and a .30.06 rifle, keeping an extra eye on those communist rascals. You betcha!

The position the US has taken is to make sure international waters stay just that. And aren't hijacked by a nation desiring the natural resources nearby. And threatening any who sail nearby. As done here to a BBC reporter. Take a look at the islands before and after. An environmental disaster. China should be made to pay to restore them to their original condition. If that can even be done.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35031313

Flying close to Beijing's new South China Sea islands

[55Jay]

again Uncle Sam can't mind it's own business

US should be kicked out of Asia as soon as possible

Certainly America can be (rightly) blamed for their blundering abroad, but IMO, they are on the right side of this one.

If you unpack your somewhat cavalier statement, the Chinese and Russians (Goliath) are certain to exploit a lack of US counter-weight/deterrence, leaving the smaller Pacific Rim nations (David) to fend off the provocative acts. Emotions run hot. Escalation would be inevitable.

[spidermike007]

China is completely out of their minds to claim nearly the entire south china sea as their own. It is nothing more than a churlish power play, and the US is right in flexing some muscle, and rubbing their faces in the sand. This is a problem of China's own making, and I suspect it is just the beginning of an expansionist policy that will last decades. They are trying to reclaim their place in history, as one of the world's most powerful nations. Let us not forget, between about the 5th century AD and about the 15th century, China and India were two of the world's great superpowers and were both fabulously wealthy. China is attempting to recapture their place in history. To claim seas that are many hundreds of miles from your shore as your own, is nothing more than a bully picking on a weakling. No doubt China has assumed the role of the bully, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

[derator01]

Please stick to the topic. This is about recent events only.

[trogers]

And all China can do is huff and puff ?

Or print more Yuan to arm up...

[bangon04]

China is completely out of their minds to claim nearly the entire south china sea as their own. It is nothing more than a churlish power play, and the US is right in flexing some muscle, and rubbing their faces in the sand. This is a problem of China's own making, and I suspect it is just the beginning of an expansionist policy that will last decades. They are trying to reclaim their place in history, as one of the world's most powerful nations. Let us not forget, between about the 5th century AD and about the 15th century, China and India were two of the world's great superpowers and were both fabulously wealthy. China is attempting to recapture their place in history. To claim seas that are many hundreds of miles from your shore as your own, is nothing more than a bully picking on a weakling. No doubt China has assumed the role of the bully, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately the USA is not in a position to back up its token posture with real action. The USA has made empty assurances to back up the Philippines against the bully China. China knows that if it comes to it, the USA will not risk its economic reality to protect the Philippines.

The Chinese have already made so much progress in colonising the South Chine Seas that it is probably too late to go back now. The international community will bleat and bluster as it usually does, and China will ignore them.

The only country which China actually is wary of is Vietnam, because Vietnam has demonstrated in the past that it is not afraid of "superpowers" and will not be bullied. I am not only referring to the 1975 humiliation of the USA, but also the war with China in 1979-80.

[smotherb]

And all China can do is huff and puff ?

You think?

[chilli42]

Blah, blah, blah ... America will do nothing more than they have to support their Asian allies. Can you imagine having to explain to the US voters that you want to go to war over these tiny chunks of rock? Forget it, nothing is going to happen and China knows that. They will beat up their small neighbors but just won't do anything with the US, they don't need to.

[Scott]

I wouldn't be so sure about what the US might or might not do. What is at risk is the shipping lanes through the South China Sea. That is a direct threat to the US, both economically and militarily. The US will not fire the first volley, but if the Philippines decide to protect it's territory, all bets are off. The US does have a strategic military alliance with the Philippines.

Any military action will likely make a big split in ASEAN. They are supposed to defend each others' interests. Vietnam would join the Philippines, for sure, Thailand will have to do some fast talking to figure a way out, but I am sure they will.

It's one of those situations that has a great deal of potential to turn deadly rather quickly and unexpectedly.

[Scorcher]

I wouldn't be so sure about what the US might or might not do. What is at risk is the shipping lanes through the South China Sea. That is a direct threat to the US, both economically and militarily. The US will not fire the first volley, but if the Philippines decide to protect it's territory, all bets are off. The US does have a strategic military alliance with the Philippines.

Any military action will likely make a big split in ASEAN. They are supposed to defend each others' interests. Vietnam would join the Philippines, for sure, Thailand will have to do some fast talking to figure a way out, but I am sure they will.

It's one of those situations that has a great deal of potential to turn deadly rather quickly and unexpectedly.

I thought this was in international waters?

[Scott]

I believe that the area where the island is located is in waters claimed by both the Philippines and by China.

[Publicus]

Blah, blah, blah ... America will do nothing more than they have to support their Asian allies. Can you imagine having to explain to the US voters that you want to go to war over these tiny chunks of rock? Forget it, nothing is going to happen and China knows that. They will beat up their small neighbors but just won't do anything with the US, they don't need to.

Washington is salami slicing Beijing's Grand Plan. Nobody's going to fight a war over salami slices.

In fact Washington in this Naval operation just brought Taiwan into it now that the independence Democratic Progressive Party swept the Jan 16 general election to end the chummy cross-strait relations that for the past eight years have been entirely to the detriment of Taiwan. CCP now has more indigestion.

The past 20 years are over of Congress biting its tongue on CCP China. Clinton, GW Bush and Obama had been sitting on pervasive and intense anti-CCP China sentiment throughout the whole of the Congress.

Sen John McCain, chairman of the Armed Services Committee yesterday stated his strong support of the ongoing ship patrols, as reported in media of India for instance...

"I continue to hope these operations will become so routine that China and other claimants will come to accept them as normal occurrences and releasing press statements to praise them will no longer be necessary," McCain said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-top-us-senator-john-mccain-welcomes-us-warship-patrol-of-south-china-sea-2172273

The great mass of the American people would welcome giving the CCP Dictators in Beijing a good swift kick. Think Erdogan and Putin over Syria, then think Ashton Carter and Xi Jinping cause Carter has been calling the shots here and he'll continue to call 'em the rest of the way. SecDef Carter put the USN in the SCS and the USAF also.

Early last year CCP Boyz in Beijing declared they would soon announce an Air Defense Identification Zone in the South China Sea. Its surprise ADIZ over Japanese islands in the East Sea in 2013 is however swiss cheese and nothing but. US, Japan, South Korea have since been flying though it at will, sometimes individually, usually jointly. We completely ignore CCP requirements to announce a presence or face immediate and decisive military consequences blah blah. CCP puts an ADIZ over the SCS and they'll have two slices of swiss cheese.

It is the CCP Dictators in Beijing who can't afford a war or an escalation. Yet CCP think they can burn the US Navy and Air Force in the SCS, which is the worst error imaginable in this CCP bizarre revanchism and irredentism.

[Publicus]

China is completely out of their minds to claim nearly the entire south china sea as their own. It is nothing more than a churlish power play, and the US is right in flexing some muscle, and rubbing their faces in the sand. This is a problem of China's own making, and I suspect it is just the beginning of an expansionist policy that will last decades. They are trying to reclaim their place in history, as one of the world's most powerful nations. Let us not forget, between about the 5th century AD and about the 15th century, China and India were two of the world's great superpowers and were both fabulously wealthy. China is attempting to recapture their place in history. To claim seas that are many hundreds of miles from your shore as your own, is nothing more than a bully picking on a weakling. No doubt China has assumed the role of the bully, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately the USA is not in a position to back up its token posture with real action. The USA has made empty assurances to back up the Philippines against the bully China. China knows that if it comes to it, the USA will not risk its economic reality to protect the Philippines.

The Chinese have already made so much progress in colonising the South Chine Seas that it is probably too late to go back now. The international community will bleat and bluster as it usually does, and China will ignore them.

The only country which China actually is wary of is Vietnam, because Vietnam has demonstrated in the past that it is not afraid of "superpowers" and will not be bullied. I am not only referring to the 1975 humiliation of the USA, but also the war with China in 1979-80.

SecDef Ashton Carter is setting up now with the full support of Congress to complete a perimeter along what's known militarily as the First Strategic Island Chain of the western Pacific. The First Island Chain is one of the three US strategic defense island chains of the Pacific since the Korean Conflict (1950-53).

Philippines is currently the key to defending the First Island Chain successfully. Under the new defense agreement signed last year by the two presidents, US will establish eight bases in the Phils. This will include the previously established large Subic Bay Naval Base and Clark Airfield.

This will complete the US formal mutual defense treaty alliances along the first defense chain, i.e., southern Japan where the US 7th Naval Fleet is based and 30,000 Marines are stationed in three frontline divisions; South Korea where the US 8th Army and the 7th Air Force have been based since the Korean Conflict (1950-53), Taiwan, Philippines, South China Sea to Borneo.

As reported.....

Plans are being drawn up in Washington to directly contest – with warships and aircraft – Beijing’s territorial claims to nearly all of the South China Sea, and deter China’s military from crossing to the Pacific, analysts say.

“The Americans know they are the ultimate goal here. Once the Chinese consolidate in the Spratlys and they punch through, then they’ll go to the second island chain: Guam,” Jose Custodio, a consultant of the Philippine military and a former adviser to a US defense company working for the US Pacific Command, told The Straits Times.

“It will be like a tripwire: Once one side crosses, all hell will break loose,” said Custodio.

Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/123749/philippines-us-to-set-up-south-china-sea-defense-line#ixzz3yqxccWfJ

The guided missile destroyer USS Curtis Wilbur made its transit on Saturday which was four days after CCP Dictators in Beijing Defense Ministry issued a report stating its intention to access all three US strategic island chains. The Second Strategic Island Chain extends from northern Japan to Guam and through the Mariana Islands and equator. The Third is the Aleutian Islands of Alaska to Hawaii to New Zealand and Australia.

The destroyer USS Curtis Wilbur DDG 54 has offensive missiles, anti-ship missiles, anti-submarine missiles, anti-air assault systems.

Crewmen of the USS Curtis Wilbur prepare one of the ship’s two Phalanx close-in weapon systems (inset). Underway in the South China Sea, the Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyer sailed by Triton Island in the Paracels which is being claimed by China to exercise freedom of navigation exercises, the Pentagon said. The island is also being claimed by Taiwan and Vietnam. PHOTO SCREENGRAB FROM USS CURTIS WILBUR FACEBOOK PAGE AND FROM THE US NAVY

CCP Dictators in Beijing know that before they can become a global military power they must first become a regional military power. Hence the agressions, belligerence, belicosity in the East Sea against Japan and in the South China Sea against Asean countries. The strategy in Beijing is to separate allies in this region from the United States. The US will not accept or allow this to occur and neither will its formal treaty allies and partners. US has additionally entered into "strategic agreements" with India, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore since 2012.

Japan will send recon planes over the SCS as Australia has already done. CCP Dictators two months ago said in a Global Times editorial "it would be a shame if an Australian plane fell out of the sky." CCP are much more militant and arrogant than they've let on until only somewhat recently.

The CCP's PLA Navy is more advanced than most people believe but it cannot win.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-master-plan-destroy-the-us-navy-battle-15068?page=show

Japan can defeat the PLA Navy and it now has the master plan to do it.

http://www.nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/japans-master-plan-destroy-the-chinese-navy-battle-14779?page=show

Edited January 31, 2016 by Publicus

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[craigt3365]

The US is aggressively pursuing this. And there's lots they can do. Luckily, they are moving cautiously. The world court ruling will be interesting.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/12/china-fears-bring-the-u-s-military-back-to-the-philippines/

The Philippines booted the U.S. military out of the country 25 years ago, deriding the American troops as unwelcome guests and living symbols of colonialism. Now, fearful of a rising China, Manila is asking Washington to send them back.

The push got a major boost Tuesday when the Philippine Supreme Court approved a landmark defense cooperation deal with the United States that paves the way for American forces to deploy to an array of bases throughout the country.

The new deal represents a concrete success for the Obama administration’s “rebalance” to Asia and reflects a broader trend in the region as China’s smaller neighbors seek to push back against Beijing’s expansionist claims in the contested South China Sea. Manila, for instance, fears Beijing could seize control of the disputed Scarborough Shoal after repeated clashes with Chinese coast guard vessels over fishing rights. It sees the American military as a powerful friend that can help it counter China.

Seems to be more than hot air, and China is nervous.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/world/asia/philippines-us-military.html?_r=0

[Docno]

China is a bit delusional in it's territorial claims:

When I saw the headline to this story elsewhere ,my initial reaction was that the Americans were just throwing their weight around again. But after some searching I came across a similar map and it became clear that the Americans were absoluitely right in this instance. Its the Chinese who are trying to throw their weight around here, and there must be international pressure to reign them in...

[Publicus]

Asean nations and other governments of the region can take notice of the regrets the Philippines have over evicting the United States from their island nation in the early 1990s. They might be well advised not to make the same kind of mistake.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said evicting the US bases had been a mistake. "If the Americans had not left, we wouldn't be in the predicament," he said. "China would never have been able to go near Scarborough Shoal off the coast of the Philippine province of Zambales had the Americans remained in Subic," he said.

Since 2012, after a tense naval standoff with Philippines, China has set up a blockade around Scarborough, keeping away Philippine fishermen who depend on the shoal's lagoon for a living.

Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/123749/philippines-us-to-set-up-south-china-sea-defense-line#ixzz3ytvJzqLA

The First Strategic Island Chain is being referred to recently as the Bar Lev Line of the South China Sea. It is the reference to Israel constructing a chain of fortifications along the eastern side of the Suez Canal after it had captured the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt in the 1967 six-day war.

CCP take notice.

[Publicus]

Can't wait for the world court ruling on this. And China's reaction....LOL

Indeed.

CCP Dictators in Beijing still think they are the Middle Kingdom that the Chinese never were, still are not, never will be. Dictators, autocrats, a new dynasty of emperors in business suits saluting Mao.

A number of governments are waiting in anticipation of the ruling of the International Court of Arbitration expected later this year on the case brought to it against Beijing by the Philippines with the support of the United States.

Manila has its own crackerjack lawyers arguing the case with the high powered Boston-Washington law firm of Foley Hoag which specialises in International Law of the Sea.

Governments in Europe are holding back in anticipation of the green light from the Court to get involved, G-7 countries in particular. A number of G-20 governments also will commit to the Philippines once the Court issues its judicial ruling on the ILOS.

So it is eminently laughable to hear CCP Dictators in Beijing concerning these South China Sea Freedom of Navigation exercises by the United States. Sit back read and enjoy....

The Chinese Foreign Ministry also came out with a separate statement, calling on the US to respect and abide by China's laws, and not to undermine the mutual trust and regional peace and stability.

"The US warship violated Chinese law and entered China's territorial sea without authorisation. The Chinese side conducted surveillance and vocal warnings to the US warship," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said.

Defence Ministry spokesman Yang claimed that China's law on the territorial sea and contiguous zone accords with the international law and practice.

"The US side is fully aware of this, yet it still sent its warship into China's territorial sea without authorisation. It is a deliberate provocation," Yang said, adding that Chinese military "warned and expelled" the US warship from the South China Sea area "swiftly".

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-sending-warship-to-south-china-sea-dangerous-move-warns-china-1272086

The Middle Kingdom

These people have not ever been in contact with world reality outside of their closed borders.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Publicus

[tonbridgebrit]

Blah, blah, blah ... America will do nothing more than they have to support their Asian allies. Can you imagine having to explain to the US voters that you want to go to war over these tiny chunks of rock? Forget it, nothing is going to happen and China knows that. They will beat up their small neighbors but just won't do anything with the US, they don't need to.

Washington is salami slicing Beijing's Grand Plan. Nobody's going to fight a war over salami slices.

In fact Washington in this Naval operation just brought Taiwan into it now that the independence Democratic Progressive Party swept the Jan 16 general election to end the chummy cross-strait relations that for the past eight years have been entirely to the detriment of Taiwan. CCP now has more indigestion.

The past 20 years are over of Congress biting its tongue on CCP China. Clinton, GW Bush and Obama had been sitting on pervasive and intense anti-CCP China sentiment throughout the whole of the Congress.

Sen John McCain, chairman of the Armed Services Committee yesterday stated his strong support of the ongoing ship patrols, as reported in media of India for instance...

"I continue to hope these operations will become so routine that China and other claimants will come to accept them as normal occurrences and releasing press statements to praise them will no longer be necessary," McCain said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-top-us-senator-john-mccain-welcomes-us-warship-patrol-of-south-china-sea-2172273

The great mass of the American people would welcome giving the CCP Dictators in Beijing a good swift kick. Think Erdogan and Putin over Syria, then think Ashton Carter and Xi Jinping cause Carter has been calling the shots here and he'll continue to call 'em the rest of the way. SecDef Carter put the USN in the SCS and the USAF also.

Early last year CCP Boyz in Beijing declared they would soon announce an Air Defense Identification Zone in the South China Sea. Its surprise ADIZ over Japanese islands in the East Sea in 2013 is however swiss cheese and nothing but. US, Japan, South Korea have since been flying though it at will, sometimes individually, usually jointly. We completely ignore CCP requirements to announce a presence or face immediate and decisive military consequences blah blah. CCP puts an ADIZ over the SCS and they'll have two slices of swiss cheese.

It is the CCP Dictators in Beijing who can't afford a war or an escalation. Yet CCP think they can burn the US Navy and Air Force in the SCS, which is the worst error imaginable in this CCP bizarre revanchism and irredentism.

"The great mass of the American people would welcome giving the CCP Dictators in Beijing a good swift kick. Think Erdogan and Putin over Syria, then think Ashton Carter and Xi Jinping".

Publicus, what are you talking about ? Look, I'm not an American, but I (and most other people) know that the American people are sick and tired of Washington getting involved in foreign invasions and disputes. Look at Afghanistan. Yes, America had to go in, but what has been the result of well over a decade of America's heavy involvement ? Next, we have Iraq. Yes, it was a good idea to remove a bad dictator (Saddam) and give the people of Iraq freedom and democracy, BUT, but what has happened in Iraq ? We're assuming that it was Washington's goal to set up a new Iraq with a system of freedom and democracy.

Right now, we have Syria. Washington (as in the US government) appears to want to get involved, but the American people surely don't want a repeat of Afghanistan and Iraq ?? What else ? There was Gaddafi's Libya. When the rebels rose up against Gaddafi, how much desire did Washington have to get involved in serious military action to remove Gaddafi ? Get real, the people of America are sick to death of war.

I love the way how you are against the Republicans and how you love the Democrats, and you trot out Sen John McCain ??? John McCain ?? John McCain is regarded by the critics as being an even bigger war monger than George Bush ! After the invasion of Iraq, when the occupation became tougher and tougher, McCain backed a big "surge" in the number of American soldiers in Iraq. I think McCain was dissapointed by the actual "surge" done by Bush, because McCain reckoned that the surge was not big enough.

Publicus, can you stop banging the war drum against China ? And stop banging the war drum against Putin as well. You're scared of Kim of North Korea because he's got a few nukes. You should be more scared of Putin and Beijing, because, because they've got loads of nukes. Stop being a war monger.

And you do realise, all this is just a display of muscular posturing from Washington ? Look, if Washington really wanted to slap China, Washington would simply order Walmart to not import stuff from China. That would be enough to bankrupt China in just four months, it would be enough to boot out Xi Jinping and the 'Beijing Boyz' in just five months or less.

So, Publicus, stop being a war monger, stop banging that war drum. If you really want to see China destroyed, and Xi Jinping kicked out, well, go and be part of whatever lobby group that wants to stop Walmart stocking Chinese goods. But you're going to have to stop buying goods that are made in China as well. Can you do that ? Get real, you can't, you're addicted like the rest of us.

[Publicus]

Blah, blah, blah ... America will do nothing more than they have to support their Asian allies. Can you imagine having to explain to the US voters that you want to go to war over these tiny chunks of rock? Forget it, nothing is going to happen and China knows that. They will beat up their small neighbors but just won't do anything with the US, they don't need to.

Washington is salami slicing Beijing's Grand Plan. Nobody's going to fight a war over salami slices.

In fact Washington in this Naval operation just brought Taiwan into it now that the independence Democratic Progressive Party swept the Jan 16 general election to end the chummy cross-strait relations that for the past eight years have been entirely to the detriment of Taiwan. CCP now has more indigestion.

The past 20 years are over of Congress biting its tongue on CCP China. Clinton, GW Bush and Obama had been sitting on pervasive and intense anti-CCP China sentiment throughout the whole of the Congress.

Sen John McCain, chairman of the Armed Services Committee yesterday stated his strong support of the ongoing ship patrols, as reported in media of India for instance...

"I continue to hope these operations will become so routine that China and other claimants will come to accept them as normal occurrences and releasing press statements to praise them will no longer be necessary," McCain said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-top-us-senator-john-mccain-welcomes-us-warship-patrol-of-south-china-sea-2172273

The great mass of the American people would welcome giving the CCP Dictators in Beijing a good swift kick. Think Erdogan and Putin over Syria, then think Ashton Carter and Xi Jinping cause Carter has been calling the shots here and he'll continue to call 'em the rest of the way. SecDef Carter put the USN in the SCS and the USAF also.

Early last year CCP Boyz in Beijing declared they would soon announce an Air Defense Identification Zone in the South China Sea. Its surprise ADIZ over Japanese islands in the East Sea in 2013 is however swiss cheese and nothing but. US, Japan, South Korea have since been flying though it at will, sometimes individually, usually jointly. We completely ignore CCP requirements to announce a presence or face immediate and decisive military consequences blah blah. CCP puts an ADIZ over the SCS and they'll have two slices of swiss cheese.

It is the CCP Dictators in Beijing who can't afford a war or an escalation. Yet CCP think they can burn the US Navy and Air Force in the SCS, which is the worst error imaginable in this CCP bizarre revanchism and irredentism.

"The great mass of the American people would welcome giving the CCP Dictators in Beijing a good swift kick. Think Erdogan and Putin over Syria, then think Ashton Carter and Xi Jinping".

Publicus, what are you talking about ? Look, I'm not an American, but I (and most other people) know that the American people are sick and tired of Washington getting involved in foreign invasions and disputes. Look at Afghanistan. Yes, America had to go in, but what has been the result of well over a decade of America's heavy involvement ? Next, we have Iraq. Yes, it was a good idea to remove a bad dictator (Saddam) and give the people of Iraq freedom and democracy, BUT, but what has happened in Iraq ? We're assuming that it was Washington's goal to set up a new Iraq with a system of freedom and democracy.

Right now, we have Syria. Washington (as in the US government) appears to want to get involved, but the American people surely don't want a repeat of Afghanistan and Iraq ?? What else ? There was Gaddafi's Libya. When the rebels rose up against Gaddafi, how much desire did Washington have to get involved in serious military action to remove Gaddafi ? Get real, the people of America are sick to death of war.

I love the way how you are against the Republicans and how you love the Democrats, and you trot out Sen John McCain ??? John McCain ?? John McCain is regarded by the critics as being an even bigger war monger than George Bush ! After the invasion of Iraq, when the occupation became tougher and tougher, McCain backed a big "surge" in the number of American soldiers in Iraq. I think McCain was dissapointed by the actual "surge" done by Bush, because McCain reckoned that the surge was not big enough.

Publicus, can you stop banging the war drum against China ? And stop banging the war drum against Putin as well. You're scared of Kim of North Korea because he's got a few nukes. You should be more scared of Putin and Beijing, because, because they've got loads of nukes. Stop being a war monger.

And you do realise, all this is just a display of muscular posturing from Washington ? Look, if Washington really wanted to slap China, Washington would simply order Walmart to not import stuff from China. That would be enough to bankrupt China in just four months, it would be enough to boot out Xi Jinping and the 'Beijing Boyz' in just five months or less.

So, Publicus, stop being a war monger, stop banging that war drum. If you really want to see China destroyed, and Xi Jinping kicked out, well, go and be part of whatever lobby group that wants to stop Walmart stocking Chinese goods. But you're going to have to stop buying goods that are made in China as well. Can you do that ? Get real, you can't, you're addicted like the rest of us.

I (and most other people) know that the American people are sick and tired of Washington getting involved in foreign invasions and disputes.

Most foreigners who harp on these points continually reference Syria and Assad, Afghanistan and Taleban; also Iraq and Saddam Hussein, Lybia and Kadaffi; the mess Putin created in Ukraine etc.

This contest centers on the CCP Dictators in Beijing and their aggressions, belligerence and bellicosity in the South China Sea against Asean and Australia, East Sea against Japan; add the Indian Ocean which CCP said to India last year "is not Indian."

Perhaps one can see the difference in the land conflicts of the past hung over into the present versus the sea and air based disputes and tensions of the present going forward. Then again probably not. Surely you do not and certainly not ever.

So....

In 2010 US formally adopted by vote of Congress the Doctrine of Air-Sea Battle presented by the Pentagon and President Obama the CinC. It is specifically in response to the ambitions of the CCP and the challenges presented in the Gulf by Iran and in the ocean waters and inland seas at and near Iran.

In 2012 then SecState Clinton announced at an Asean annual meeting the US "Pivot to the Pacific" strategy which focuses on economics and trade in for instance the TPP, and on the military which is repositioning 60% of the US Navy along with air forces to the Pacific-Indian Ocean strategic region of the world. Air-Sea Battle is the crux of US military operations in this theatre of air and high seas conflict.

New land wars are not going to occur anywhere; neither will land incursions by large unit ground forces occur. It's gone over to the Navy and the Air Force. The US Army is going over to special operations rather than mass ground forces. Navy and Air Force are being upgraded and expanded and the US Marine Corps is being advanced.

In short it's a whole new ballgame involving the CCP so do try to keep up rather than always cross the bridge when and if you ever get to it.

Washington would simply order Walmart to not import stuff from China....go and be part of whatever lobby group that wants to stop Walmart stocking Chinese goods.

Stop sounding like a child or a dictator in Moscow or Beijing cause it's the same thing. You are chronically full of what others will or would do based on your own detached and marginal imaginings and delusions.

But you're going to have to stop buying goods that are made in China as well. Can you do that ? Get real, you can't, you're addicted like the rest of us.

More self-concocted presumptions still and yet again as always and forever.

I'd already pointed out to you the P-16 group of least developed countries that are already identified as succeeding cheap low wage and low skilled manufacturing in the CCP China. So I'm appropriately getting tired of talking to a rock.

The PC16: Identifying China's Successors

The arcs along which nations rise and fall vary in length and slope. China's has been long, as far as these things go, lasting for more than 30 years. The country will continue to exist and perhaps prosper, but this era of Chinese development — pyramiding on low wages to conquer global markets — is ending simply because there are now other nations with even lower wages and other advantages. China will have to behave differently from the way it does now, and thus other countries are poised to take its place.

https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/pc16-identifying-chinas-successors

Y'know, the Chinese like to lecture people too. They too are presumptuous and condescending. Strict and stern. And also for no good or viable reason either. They too only expose themselves in their detachment from reality and in their high handedness.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Publicus

[arjunadawn]

Seems like the US deals with this a bit better. Even when the waters are not contested.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/gordon-g-chang/chinese-warships-sail-american-waters

Last Thursday, the Pentagon confirmed five Chinese warships had sailed within 12 nautical miles of the Alaskan coast. The US, in accordance with international law, claims as territorial water a band of sea extending 12 miles from its shores. The Chinese vessels, therefore, entered American waters.

This is an excellent companion piece to the OP. However, did the US really deal with this in a better manner? I am unsure. What the US has either intentionally or inadvertently done is ostensibly the "moral high ground" with regard to how the States should respond to harmless passage- "innocent passage," but I think a very different message may have been sent.

The telegraphed message involves Chinese response to US ships in the region of their island but there is a glaring difference- the exclusion zone with regard to China is not recognized as sovereign territory of China. This is the very issue for which the US is navigating these waters- to demonstrate that claiming this area is not without international protest. China sailing off the US coast should perhaps have been treated exactly as it was in order not to give legitimacy to the Chinese navy but runs the risk of of suggesting the moral (legal too) manner in which China should be responding in Asia, and for the same reasons. The very issue there is that its asserted China has no moral/legal authority to its claim. I think this effort sends the wrong diplomatic message.

"Washington could have denied the Chinese ships free passage or lodged a protest afterwards" or they could have made clear "innocent passage" would be permitted in this instance while shadowing the vessels militarily. This would have been a strong response, a moral high ground, and severed the appearance of moral/legal equality.

[NeverSure]

Orrrrr.... The US could have sunk the ships using a nuclear powered stealth submarine and then done what the Russians or Chinese might have done - denied it.

Cheers.

[NeverSure]

I don't think I'm off topic here so I'll risk it... Naw, deleted, LOL.

Edited February 1, 2016 by NeverSure