Autopsies in Thailand

[PlastikbinLina]

Has anyone has experience with asking or expecting an autopsy to be carried out after the demise of a friend or relative here in Thailand? A close friend died on the 22 January in the Bangkok Hospital in Hat Yai following a Triple Bypass heart operation. He survived three days after the op but suddenly an unknown complication set in and he died within minutes of complaining about struggling to breath. His Heart doctor who helped to carry out CPR and failed apologized to me and his visiting Australian family and suspected a pulmonary embolism was the cause. I said 'well I suppose you'll learn just what the cause was when you do the Autopsy. "no we don't do autopsies here in Thailand" I asked him if he wasn't the least bit curious to find the cause. He just repeated his last remark. I was surprised that despite my friend paying a Cash Deposit of 450,000 prior to his operation, they insisted on cash, No Cheques Please"the cause of his demise would be of great interest to the hospital.

My Thai wife died on the 28 January 2014 from suspected liver cirrhosis and at that time I asked the doctor to do an autopsy to discover the extent of the damage. This was in the Rajaviti hospital Bnagkok. Hs answer was much the same as the above but he added 'we only do autopsies if insurance is involved. But I've heard from other sources that if requested an autopsy will be carried out. Can anybody add information that might shed light on this mystery?

[stoneyboy]

A guy I know died recently upcountry and in the home,as far as I am aware it was a requirement to determine the cause of death by way of autopsy to ensure foul play wasn't involved.

That would make sense as he didn't pass away in hospital.

I'm sure others have more knowledge on the subject.

Sorry to hear of the passing of your friend.

[ezzra]

Autopsies in general are carried out when there are suspicious death circumstances,

if the patient dies in hospital while under doctors care, than there is autopsy done,

and the doctor sign the death certificate of natural causes.....

hospitals are business, and autopsies cost money and time....

[Sheryl]

It is indeed not common procedure here when the death is clearly from natural causes.

It can be done but very seldom is, and of course would entail costs the family would be expected to bear. If the family strongly feels they want it done, they can insist, stressing that they will pay for it.

This is a cultural thing: Thais are usually satisfied just to know that the death was natural and do not feel a need to understand the technical cause. Even sometimes where there is doubt about possible foul play, Thais will often just say "He/she is dead already" and leave it at that.

What you describe sounds exactly like a pulmonary embolism.

[Loaded]

I requested after a close (farang) relative passed away here. There were no suspicious circumstances (old age plus a long history of coronary problems), but I thought there might be complications with probate in the UK if the death certificate didn't have a cause of death.

[hanuman2543]

My personal experience( 3 times) is that if a German dies here in Thailand ( even when he/she dies in a hospital) the German Embassy requires an autopsy and the Austrians too.

[rodcourt49]

It is indeed not common procedure here when the death is clearly from natural causes.

It can be done but very seldom is, and of course would entail costs the family would be expected to bear. If the family strongly feels they want it done, they can insist, stressing that they will pay for it.

This is a cultural thing: Thais are usually satisfied just to know that the death was natural and do not feel a need to understand the technical cause. Even sometimes where there is doubt about possible foul play, Thais will often just say "He/she is dead already" and leave it at that.

What you describe sounds exactly like a pulmonary embolism.

...you say 'possible foul play'...medical procedures do go wrong too!.. resulting in many post mortems being requested by the family via the Coroner to -

1. establish the cause of death and

2. clear up any doubts of malpractice, particularly in the light of pending litigation.

[Suradit69]

A guy I know died recently upcountry and in the home,as far as I am aware it was a requirement to determine the cause of death by way of autopsy to ensure foul play wasn't involved.

That would make sense as he didn't pass away in hospital.

I'm sure others have more knowledge on the subject.

Sorry to hear of the passing of your friend.

"That would make sense as he didn't pass away in hospital."

Yes, I believe if you die in hospital an autopsy is not required since the hospital (presumably) can certify cause of death. According to the (not always accurate) US Embassy:

Autopsies are not typically performed on U.S. citizens who die in hospitals, except at the request and expense of the next-of-kin. Hospitals are normally able to provide a cause of death, which is required for issuance of a Thai death certificate

[recycler]

That they don't do autopsies in Thailand is nonsense, in this case the doctor may not have been interested in uncovering potential mistakes in the operation or treatment afterwards. As we all know nobody makes a mistake here.

It also has to do with money, if the autopsy is paid for it will be done, if not you may need a police request or other legal warrant to have it done.

Recently a friend of my wife died at young age without any prior signs in her sleep. The family is poor and the husband didn't want to have anything to do with it, as the family could not afford the autopsy it was not done.

[Iamemjay]

A middle-aged cousin of my wife's was found dead in her house after not showing up for work for three days. By appearances she had fallen (had been pushed??) down the stairs and hit her head. The local village policeman called the rellies together (The dead person was FAR from popular amongst them - They were the wrong ones to ask!) to let THEM decide if there was anything suspicious. They said "No", so no autopsy was carried out. Natural causes?? Ahh Thailand!

[1FinickyOne]

Sorry for your friends death - it seems since he was in for heart surgery and died of heart failure, the need for an autopsy would be down to small details that might not be significant to the family. If someone is seeking damages, as might be common in the West or a malpractice suit, also common, then surely you could have one done at your own expense... if it is just as to curiosity, - how much is it worth to you?

Maybe this is part of why medical expenses are lower here. Malpractice insurance in the West is very expensive [and necessary] for doctors to carry.

I don't really see why the hospital would have great interest as their assumption is probably correct - it does not sound like a mistake was made and they are surely more used to patients passing on than we as individuals are...

Their time might be better spent on taking care of the living - I am assuming that they have knowledge on the subject already and not the time to examine every individual case.

Again, sorry for your loss of a friend - we will all go someday.

[JRinPDX]

It is indeed not common procedure here when the death is clearly from natural causes.

It can be done but very seldom is, and of course would entail costs the family would be expected to bear. If the family strongly feels they want it done, they can insist, stressing that they will pay for it.

This is a cultural thing: Thais are usually satisfied just to know that the death was natural and do not feel a need to understand the technical cause. Even sometimes where there is doubt about possible foul play, Thais will often just say "He/she is dead already" and leave it at that.

What you describe sounds exactly like a pulmonary embolism.

...you say 'possible foul play'...medical procedures do go wrong too!.. resulting in many post mortems being requested by the family via the Coroner to -

1. establish the cause of death and

2. clear up any doubts of malpractice, particularly in the light of pending litigation.

Can you pursue malpractice in Thailand? I'd heard the anti-defamation laws make it impossible to pursue.. and that malpractice insurance is rare. No first-hand experience.. could be just rumor.

[Issangeorge]

My wife recently told me a story about one of the villagers hanging himself, his father took him to the hospital, I guess he died there. Anyway with just a superficial examination the doctor saw bruising all over the body, he said something wasn't right here. The father picked up the son and said I'm taking him home to burn, and he left. No autopsy. The father burned the son at the temple crematorium that night, no funeral. Supposedly the son had just won a couple of million baht in the lottery. Most of the villagers, including my wife, think the father murdered the son. Sometimes we are lulled into thinking Thailand is a first world country, and then instances like the above make us aware that it is still a third world country.

[bob009]

Had a German friend die suddenly here in Phetchabun a few months ago. As he passed away at home they took his body to Phitsunalok 140kl away to do the autopsy. A requierment his wife was told, as he died at home and not in Hospital. It is also a requirement that you call the local police as they are supposed to be the ones that inform to Embassy. Trouble is most of the local police dont know the rules unless there is an envelope involved.

[gandalf12]

Autopsies in general are carried out when there are suspicious death circumstances,

if the patient dies in hospital while under doctors care, than there is autopsy done,

and the doctor sign the death certificate of natural causes.....

hospitals are business, and autopsies cost money and time....

No there isnt any done if you die in hospital. My wife died in hospital, we all knew the cause, but there was no autopsy performed.

[1FinickyOne]

My wife recently told me a story about one of the villagers hanging himself, his father took him to the hospital, I guess he died there. Anyway with just a superficial examination the doctor saw bruising all over the body, he said something wasn't right here. The father picked up the son and said I'm taking him home to burn, and he left. No autopsy. The father burned the son at the temple crematorium that night, no funeral. Supposedly the son had just won a couple of million baht in the lottery. Most of the villagers, including my wife, think the father murdered the son. Sometimes we are lulled into thinking Thailand is a first world country, and then instances like the above make us aware that it is still a third world country.

Hi George - though your assumptions sound like they could be correct, to think this does not happen in the Western World is way off - there are countless stories in the USA and it seems the larger the prize, the more bizarre the stories... I do not think greed and envy are limited to third world... though sorry for the young fellow...

Not sure what is available on the net but a big winner in Oil City Pa. USA had an incredibly weird story, If I remember correctly, several attempts on his life etc etc..

[LALes]

A good friend died recently in his condo in Jomtien. The word going around was that an autopsy had to be requested

by a family member and they had to pay for it. Since he had no relatives here in Thailand, and none of his friends knew

any of his relatives in the States, contact was spotty. As a result, there was no autopsy. Foul play was not an issue.

His body was cremated. It was a tragic death and now we will never know the actual cause.