British-led Card Room raided by officials in South Pattaya

[stephenterry]

don't know anything about Bridge. Can I ask a stupid question? Is Bridge ever even associated with gambling?

I googled it and got links to very technical discussions of some kind of opening strategy only.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These people were playing duplicate bridge, which is a non-gambling game. It is usual practice for the players to pay an entrance fee, and there are no monetary prizes awarded, just the acknowledgement that whoever gets the most points is declared a winner of that tournament.

Another gambling version of bridge is rubber bridge. Money is won or lost on the number of points gained during the game. in duplicate bridge, there is no incentive other than proving yourself better than the others.

I reached life-master status in the UK decades ago, and I can assure you that personal achievement is the motivation for playing duplicate bridge.

[Psychic]

don't know anything about Bridge. Can I ask a stupid question? Is Bridge ever even associated with gambling?

I googled it and got links to very technical discussions of some kind of opening strategy only.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, bridge can be played for money. In fact it was invented by a Vanderbilt on his yacht to play with some friends.

There are still money bridge games being played but most of the players in the world play duplicate bridge which involves no gambling and (generally) no prizes.

Which is another thing I don't understand. Someone stated that if there were prizes that it would be a breach of Thai law.

By the same token then wouldn't every professional golf tournament be illegal?

[hawker9000]

So...is this a prelude to closing down illegal casinos and lotteries all over Thailand? Soft targets first...then...once all the old tourists are jailed for a game only my grandma could play....the troops should be ready.

... not to mention soccer, golf, tennis, etc tournaments at which "prizes" are awarded, which makes them gambling and next in line for being shutdown.

Fact is, EVERY sport or competition can be "associated" with gambling. As can be the weather, elections, the stock market, celebrity court cases... the list is endless! "Associated with gambling" = one heckuva absurd phrase.

RTP have surpassed themselves this time and won't recover from this for many years, during which all mention of "face" will just provoke derision & laughter. Tourists passing cops on the street will have to try & cover their smiles. How long before the t-shirts start to appear I wonder.

And the really sad thing is, the RTP could go a LONG way toward putting this behind them by immediately, openly & publically admitting to a gross error and organizing an event to publically apologize to the 32 players who were arrested. TO their faces and with all members of the raiding party, as well as their chain-of-command, in attendance and participating. 'Course, what are the chances of that (best not to speculate; that might be gambling...)

Edited February 5, 2016 by hawker9000

[elgordo38]

All the (funny) comments on this thread aside, there must be more to this, a lot more, I imagine, as Thai Police are not that stupid and eager to waste their resources like they seem to have done here.

To be continued...

Hold on there pardner lets not give to much credit where its not due. If you have read all the posters on this what would your mind zero in on?? Hmm a big pay day possibly. 32 fish all sitting there waiting to be caught. A good clean catch no guns involved or risk of life and pockets full of bahts. What more could you ask for a winning lottery number perchance.

[BritTim]

There is some high ranking person in Thailand that ordered this raid and is gonna be unhappy about the outcome. I sure am happy I wasn't the one to suggest raiding those docile older card players and intimidating/coaxing 5000 baht out of each one. It would have been cheaper and less time spent behind bars , if they'd been picked up for 'loitering' on Beach Road. What the heck, now BIB has a new list of usual characters.

It may not have gone right to the top. Ignorant Thai police are used to the idea that gambling busts are a prime money earner. It would have been pretty easy to organize a mob motivated by the chance of some easy money and only sanctioned at police station level. If that turns out to be the case, we may even see an apology and some police disciplined.

[BritTim]

I would suggest ANY old farangs out there that play Cribbage.........Burn the boards immediately.....If not, wear a flack jacket cos as we all know, we don't know what to expect next..........

I think raids on darts matches are more likely. Those involved are armed with unlicensed weapons. Given the concerns about terrorism, allowing armed groups to freely roam the streets of Thai towns would clearly be irresponsible.

[robertson468]

This was on BBC News today, which makes this whole sad saga not only outrageously laughable (although probably not for the participants) with hundreds of thousands of ex-pats in Thailand, but now the whole world! I can only assume that someone in the Police/Local Administration got it so wrong that they had to rake through the law books, to find something/anything so that these dedicated Thai Law Enforcers did not loose face. Sadly, by carrying out the actions that they did, they have only made themselves look worse!

[stephenterry]

Even when they know they're expletive wrong, they won't expletive back-down or admit it. Ever. Until there is a sea-change in society behaviour (through education), Thailand will be stuck in the past forever.

[Balance]

RTP back on the world stage. I think they need an international booking agent. Who knows, perhaps there is a reality TV show in the making here. That is is big bhat. After all, if the American clown, Donald Trump, can do it the RTP certainly can.

What was the law that was being broken?

[BritTim]

don't know anything about Bridge. Can I ask a stupid question? Is Bridge ever even associated with gambling?

I googled it and got links to very technical discussions of some kind of opening strategy only.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bridge developed from the old game of whist. Historically, whist and bridge were games played by the elite and money did, indeed, change hands. Starting about 80 years ago, a non gambling form of bridge called "duplicate bridge" or "tournament bridge" evolved and is the predominant form of the game today.

Thailand has hosted international bridge tournaments (typically attracting "criminals" from over 20 countries). The most recent example was the Asia Pacific Bridge Federation Championships held in Bangkok last year (http://www.thailandbridgeleague.com/apbf/index.php). Prior to that, in April the Asia Pacific Bridge Federation Youth Teams competition was held here (http://www.thailandbridgeleague.com/apbfyouth/index.php). If the Pattaya case is to go ahead, I suggest Bangkok police will need to be acted against for dereliction of duty in allowing these international crime syndicates to operate under their noses.

I am not sure if this is still true, but previously Chlalongkorn University students were given the opportunity to learn bridge. As with previous generations, Thais from prominent families took advantage of this. Until recently, senior Royal Thai Navy officers were required to learn the game as the senior admirals liked to play.

[derekjw]

Dear Readers,

I was one of the criminals arrested on Wednesday last and whilst, at the time, we all couldn't believe what was happening, the army, police and news reporters did enter the Bridge Club premises at about 3pm and loitered with intent, snooping around the games being played and going through the filing cabinets looking for hard evidence of gambling. We were all told later, about 5pm, that we were being arrested and taken to the local police station and that we would probably all have to pay a fine of 1000 baht each, but that we would have to go to Court after being charged.

We were herded into organised baht buses and taken to Pattaya Police Station next to Central on Beach Road, we were ushered into an available room on the 3rd floor and told to wait.

There were 31 in all, various Europeans (including Brits), Australians and a few Canadians. The Bridge Club does have Thai members but they were not there on the day. Two people actually escaped the long arm of the law by fleeing down a curtained off staircase before the move to the Police Station, I assume they are not fugitives from Justice and will not be hanged drawn and quartered for their actions.

The club had been raided some months ago, as an angry boyfriend of one of the staff in the restaurant rang the police and told them the players were gambling,, a misdemeanor here in Thailand, however; the Police only reprimanded the main representative of the club, Jeremy Watson, and allowed the Bridge Club to continue playing (which it has, for 22 years, in various establishments), with, what we assumed, was a licence to carry on legally.

Wednesday's actions were caused either by a continued offended boy friend or someone in authority decided we needed to be punished for this heinous crime, the crime of gambling.

In the station, the Police provided us with water only, but some Thai girlfriends were allowed in to supply food and nourishment for the apprehended farangs. During the hours of about 6pm until 3am the following morning we had to provide 5000 baht toward bail, produce a passport or driving licence, which they retained and sign various documents, we had our finger prints taken and were individually photographed, the lawyer we had retained attempted to sort things out for the concerned people and we were only given information when it was necessary. Visits to the toilet were monitored, we were left in the room with a policeman at the only exit and basically waited, twiddling thumbs. There was a suggestion that we should play a game of bridge to fill our time incarcerated in the large meeting room, but humour was gradually being replaced by annoyance, not so much anger, but frustration,

Approaching 3am the harassed lawyer appeared with a senior police official and said that if we all signed the forms (in Thai) admitting that we were gambling we could leave and return later in the morning to go to Court, where we had an opportunity to plead our case. We all duly signed, apart from one of the group who refused to pay the 5000 baht bail money, we went home and duly returned at 10.30 to be taken to court. However, during the night, action had been taken by one of the Bangkok Bridge Club members who knew people in higher places than that of the leaders of this ploy and we were told that we would not go to court that day but all would have their passports and other ID cards returned to them and we would be advised of when the next action was taking place.

At this point in time not all of us are sure what is happening next, we haven't got our bail money back, we may still have to go to court to plead not guilty to "gambling" to reverse our individual signed document admitting guilt (that was not translated for us). They (the police) tell us the fingerprints, photographs and paper work will all be scrapped. The owner of the rooms that were let should be prosecuted for not licencing the premises (not us individually or the Club), we may be charged with using illegal playing cards, but we think that burden will be placed on our Club representative; Jeremy Watson. The crime of gambling will, more than likely, be quashed and we will revert back to free people, allowed to play bridge again, with not a stain on our character. Or will we?

One thing about this whole stupid affair is that it has highlighted the character of Thai police, not in a good way, there were several high-up officers playing God that day and they were wielding power that should not be theirs, we were treated poorly, one 92 year old lady eventually being allowed to leave early with health issues, but we do understand, those of us who have lived here some time, that Thais need to save face and that we were just fodder for the hungry egos in a situation that got out of hand. All of us just want to get back to our lives, I want to catch up on my beauty sleep and we also would like our 5000 baht back, let's see what happens next, eh?, in the Land of Smiles!!!!!

DW

Edited February 5, 2016 by Tywais
Paragraphed for easiier reading

[Psychic]

Yes the president of The Contract Bridge League of Thailand was the former commander of the Royal Thai Navy.

"The organisers welcomed 72 guest players to the opening tournament on Sunday 1st October 2006 and the Section has never looked back. The opening tournament was supported both in numbers and in practical help by the Contract Bridge League of Thailand, and supported in person by their President, Admiral Prasert Boonsong MNLA, who was from 2000-2002 Commander-in-Chief of the Royal Thai Navy. A very successful start to the sections new life, which now sees itself listed as a regular weekly event of the Contract Bridge"

http://www.britishclubbangkok.org/index.php/sports-games/games-other-sections/bridge

[BritTim]

RTP back on the world stage. I think they need an international booking agent. Who knows, perhaps there is a reality TV show in the making here. That is is big bhat. After all, if the American clown, Donald Trump, can do it the RTP certainly can.

What was the law that was being broken?

What was the law that was being broken?

Failure to buy off the local police. However, the claim is that a bridge club cannot own more than 120 playing cards (2 packs) without breaking the law.

[harrry]

Yes the president of The Contract Bridge League of Thailand was the former commander of the Royal Thai Navy.

"The organisers welcomed 72 guest players to the opening tournament on Sunday 1st October 2006 and the Section has never looked back. The opening tournament was supported both in numbers and in practical help by the Contract Bridge League of Thailand, and supported in person by their President, Admiral Prasert Boonsong MNLA, who was from 2000-2002 Commander-in-Chief of the Royal Thai Navy. A very successful start to the sections new life, which now sees itself listed as a regular weekly event of the Contract Bridge"

http://www.britishclubbangkok.org/index.php/sports-games/games-other-sections/bridge

He is the ex president

[Balance]

RTP back on the world stage. I think they need an international booking agent. Who knows, perhaps there is a reality TV show in the making here. That is is big bhat. After all, if the American clown, Donald Trump, can do it the RTP certainly can.

What was the law that was being broken?

What was the law that was being broken?

Failure to buy off the local police. However, the claim is that a bridge club cannot own more than 120 playing cards (2 packs) without breaking the law.

Since Bridge is foreign to Thailand and Thais, I find it hard to believe that is even one law on the books that regulates anything about Bridge or what Bridge Clubs can do.

[Basil B]

Derrick I wish you and other others well, and hope you do indeed get your money back.

Take it up with the UN that you were arbitrarily detained...

Wikileaks' Julian Assange is arbitrarily detained, UN panel finds

-- BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35499942

Edited February 5, 2016 by Basil B

[harrry]

Derrick I wish you and other others well, and hope you do indeed get your money back.

And you have the basis of a best selling ebook...."Banged up In Thailand"

[arunsakda]

Most of these kinds of things don't happen by accident and can be interpreted in a number of ways. An administration, "making it's moves" sending signals of policies to come.

There is also the chance of absolute rank imcompetence and stupidity.

[BritTim]

I think the primary motivation was probably greed. When the police were told of rich foreigners gambling, they wanted to believe it. Even if the stakes were minimal, if gambling had indeed been going on, they could potentially have extorted large sums of money. I am sure they now wish they had not done it.

[soalbundy]

I have been trying to see the funny stupid side of this but after read derekjw's post i am disgusted.

excuse me British embassy and all the other embassies that should be involved TIME TO WAKE UP, DO SOMETHING !!! put down your gin tonics for 5 minuets.

Edited February 5, 2016 by soalbundy

[sambum]

Pathetic, disgraceful, shameful, outrageous, ridiculous . Don´t these police have anything better to do ? The Pattaya police are now a laughing stock of the universe.

I totally agree. Totally.

I would only note that, as I guess most would now agree in hindsight, it would have better to have checked w/ the police first and explained what was going to happen w/ 32 people playing cards at 8 tables, and get clearance, maybe a written clearance, before they started this up. I would have; just seems an obvious need to me, as I've lived here for many years. With the mentality and the ignorance here, not to mention odd laws enforced inconsistently, a "bust" was very likely to happen. Sorry it did to these fine folks.

Maybe somebody has made this point, don't have time to read the whole thread.

I think that they have been playing Bridge legally in Thailand for years, so understandably, they didn't think it was necessary to " have checked w/ the police first and explained what was going to happen w/ 32 people playing cards at 8 tables".

No, I think that the Police and Army should have checked first!!! Once again, this whole fiasco is all a matter of "saving face " for somebody fairly high up the ladder who thought that it was an illegal gambling den, and made a rash decision to raid the place with more than 50 personnel.

Realising the mistake, (probably sooner rather than later) this high ranking officer had to get his people to "scour the law books" to try to find some form of wrongdoing in order to justify to his superiors that he had made a correct choice, rather than just say "Sorry - we have been given some wrong information", and walked away, which would of course have been the sensible/logical thing to do.

" Maybe somebody has made this point, don't have time to read the whole thread." Same, same!

Edited February 5, 2016 by sambum

[tebee]

If I played bridge - I don't - I would never have thought of going to the police to see what licences I needed first - I can see any reason why these people should have thought that.

Indeed I suspect the BIB would have been very confused and decided I was another mad foreigner, if I showed up at their station and started asking.

[elgordo38]

There must be a little Hari Kari in the police force here. They see themselves falling on their sword and just seem to stupid to stop themselves from being impaled. They cannot stop and back out gracefully but like a bull in a China shop just keep running into brick walls knocking things over. Surely someone in their constabulary must realize the stupidity and futility of proceeding with this garbage and decide to terminate it and save face. Each stupid move they make to proceed with this case makes them the laughing stock of the foreigners in Thailand and abroad. They are giving this story legs and room to run. Some guy with a straight face states that the court case will proceed what an idiot.

[BritTim]

Dear Readers,

I was one of the criminals arrested on Wednesday last and whilst, at the time, we all couldn't believe what was happening, the army, police and news reporters did enter the Bridge Club premises at about 3pm and loitered with intent, snooping around the games being played and going through the filing cabinets looking for hard evidence of gambling. We were all told later, about 5pm, that we were being arrested and taken to the local police station and that we would probably all have to pay a fine of 1000 baht each, but that we would have to go to Court after being charged.

We were herded into organised baht buses and taken to Pattaya Police Station next to Central on Beach Road, we were ushered into an available room on the 3rd floor and told to wait.

There were 31 in all, various Europeans (including Brits), Australians and a few Canadians. The Bridge Club does have Thai members but they were not there on the day. Two people actually escaped the long arm of the law by fleeing down a curtained off staircase before the move to the Police Station, I assume they are not fugitives from Justice and will not be hanged drawn and quartered for their actions.

The club had been raided some months ago, as an angry boyfriend of one of the staff in the restaurant rang the police and told them the players were gambling,, a misdemeanor here in Thailand, however; the Police only reprimanded the main representative of the club, Jeremy Watson, and allowed the Bridge Club to continue playing (which it has, for 22 years, in various establishments), with, what we assumed, was a licence to carry on legally.

Wednesday's actions were caused either by a continued offended boy friend or someone in authority decided we needed to be punished for this heinous crime, the crime of gambling.

In the station, the Police provided us with water only, but some Thai girlfriends were allowed in to supply food and nourishment for the apprehended farangs. During the hours of about 6pm until 3am the following morning we had to provide 5000 baht toward bail, produce a passport or driving licence, which they retained and sign various documents, we had our finger prints taken and were individually photographed, the lawyer we had retained attempted to sort things out for the concerned people and we were only given information when it was necessary. Visits to the toilet were monitored, we were left in the room with a policeman at the only exit and basically waited, twiddling thumbs. There was a suggestion that we should play a game of bridge to fill our time incarcerated in the large meeting room, but humour was gradually being replaced by annoyance, not so much anger, but frustration,

Approaching 3am the harassed lawyer appeared with a senior police official and said that if we all signed the forms (in Thai) admitting that we were gambling we could leave and return later in the morning to go to Court, where we had an opportunity to plead our case. We all duly signed, apart from one of the group who refused to pay the 5000 baht bail money, we went home and duly returned at 10.30 to be taken to court. However, during the night, action had been taken by one of the Bangkok Bridge Club members who knew people in higher places than that of the leaders of this ploy and we were told that we would not go to court that day but all would have their passports and other ID cards returned to them and we would be advised of when the next action was taking place.

At this point in time not all of us are sure what is happening next, we haven't got our bail money back, we may still have to go to court to plead not guilty to "gambling" to reverse our individual signed document admitting guilt (that was not translated for us). They (the police) tell us the fingerprints, photographs and paper work will all be scrapped. The owner of the rooms that were let should be prosecuted for not licencing the premises (not us individually or the Club), we may be charged with using illegal playing cards, but we think that burden will be placed on our Club representative; Jeremy Watson. The crime of gambling will, more than likely, be quashed and we will revert back to free people, allowed to play bridge again, with not a stain on our character. Or will we?

One thing about this whole stupid affair is that it has highlighted the character of Thai police, not in a good way, there were several high-up officers playing God that day and they were wielding power that should not be theirs, we were treated poorly, one 92 year old lady eventually being allowed to leave early with health issues, but we do understand, those of us who have lived here some time, that Thais need to save face and that we were just fodder for the hungry egos in a situation that got out of hand. All of us just want to get back to our lives, I want to catch up on my beauty sleep and we also would like our 5000 baht back, let's see what happens next, eh?, in the Land of Smiles!!!!!

DW

Thank you for your first hand account. I am sorry for the experience you were all subjected to, and hope everyone if OK.

However, your account seems to be incomplete. No report of a bridge session could be considered complete without an interesting hand or two.

[mydee]

Agreed, I would love to know what the bronzed ANZACs in the Australian Embassy who represent Australian interests here are doing about this.

I have been trying to see the funny stupid side of this but after read derekjw's post i am disgusted.

excuse me British embassy and all the other embassies that should be involved TIME TO WAKE UP, DO SOMETHING !!! put down your gin tonics for 5 minuets.

[harrry]

Agreed, I would love to know what the bronzed ANZACs in the Australian Embassy who represent Australian interests here are doing about this.

I have been trying to see the funny stupid side of this but after read derekjw's post i am disgusted.

excuse me British embassy and all the other embassies that should be involved TIME TO WAKE UP, DO SOMETHING !!! put down your gin tonics for 5 minuets.

It seems they were assisting in the raid of the pharacies at the same time. Got to get their priorities right.

[Lord Lucan]

No finger pointing at the decks of cards, shame,

An opportunity missed!

[brewsterbudgen]

RTP back on the world stage. I think they need an international booking agent. Who knows, perhaps there is a reality TV show in the making here. That is is big bhat. After all, if the American clown, Donald Trump, can do it the RTP certainly can.

What was the law that was being broken?

If, as reports suggest, it is proceeding to court, we will find out what, if any, law was broken in due course.

[Jingthing]

The law of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[manarak]

RTP back on the world stage. I think they need an international booking agent. Who knows, perhaps there is a reality TV show in the making here. That is is big bhat. After all, if the American clown, Donald Trump, can do it the RTP certainly can.

What was the law that was being broken?

If, as reports suggest, it is proceeding to court, we will find out what, if any, law was broken in due course.

which reports suggest this is going to court?