My dog is old, need some advice

[meatboy]

god forbid me and mrs meat never find us in this situation,how could anyone let your loved one suffer in pain.we have had and are still suffering with our boy

and have put our trust in our latest vet who does seem to know whats he's doing.but i did ask a vet if the inavertable ever arised would he do what i asked.

before he could answer i told him i would give him x-amount he nodded ok.as money buy's you anything in thailand thats the answer.

we had our boys best friend pass away last june,owner said old age but i knew different so get your boy blood tested.

[sandyf]

On a similar vein.

Why do people (Vets) not sterilize dogs in Thailand?

In my home country unless you are a registered breeder, or farmer all dogs must be neutered by first year.

Otherwise a big fine.

Very few stray dogs seen in streets.

Thai Vets DO neuter dogs and cats ------------- Who told you otherwise ?

Quite right, all our dogs(5) and cats(30) have been to the vets. The real problem here is that most dog owners are not prepared to pay for them to be done.

In the time I have been here, 8 years, we have had 6 dogs die. Four died peacefully but 2 in distress, one from rabies and the other from cancer. Although there are vets in the area that offer the service, my wife and her family would never entertain the concept of having them put down.

[Keesters]

Just a couple of months ago I asked at the Pattaya City vets office about euthanizing old and/or sick dogs. I was told yes the city vet would do it at his private practice on Soi Khopai. Expect cost to be in excess of 3,000 baht. PM for more details of location if needed.

[hugh2121]

When you are absolutely sure that the time has come to prevent further suffering by your dog, check the animal hospitals in your area. Many of them have at least one vet who will euthanize. They also make home visits (at reasonable extra cost) if you wish your dog to pass away at home.

My experience is in Chon Buri province.

[gavin310]

Hey, sorry I haven't gotten back to any of the questions yet, and thank you everybody for all the info and support.

I should have said some more information about my dog and what I've done so far, so here it is:

• My dog is a labrador/chow mix. He's close to 11 years old. I adopted him when he was around 1 year old.
• The bowel problems started before the bladder or leg problems. He would be lying down and would jump up surprised because he was pooping.
• A bit later he started dripping pee. It wasn't too bad at first, just a few drips every now and then and sometimes when he was sleeping he would pee and bit more and there would be a puddle.
• The pooping problems begin to get worse, the dripping pee begin to get worse. I went to one of the local vets (in mainland Trat, Thailand) and he said he's just old. He gave me some calcium pills.
• Eventually I started noticing some problems with his lower back/butt area. If you touched or scratched that area he would lose a bit of control, either dropping his rear end a bit or jutting his butt out to the side.
• I moved to the island Koh Chang in Trat and took him to a Thai vet there because he had a pretty bad leg injury (he had a cut I didn't notice and flies got in and laid eggs). We got that fixed up and I asked about the other issues but she wasn't really sure.
• The leg would just wasn't healing, so someone told me about another doctor on Koh Chang. It's an American lady who has a non-profit clinic there and she's been helping dogs for I think around 10 or 15 years. I went there and she told me the wound cleaning procedure the Thai vet gave me wasn't correct (betadine prevents new tissue growth), so I followed her advice and that worked. I also obviously asked about the other issues and she did give me another pill for him to take for (I believe) 3 weeks. I believe it was for parasites but I'm not certain. I will be emailing her and finding out exactly what it was for.
• She called me later and said her friend, an Australian veterinarian, is coming to the island and could stop by my house and check out my dog. He came by and checked him out and said there's a good chance he's developed a tumor on his spine which is causing these issues.

That's basically the gist of it. I know I'm forgetting some things. He's definitely not in enough pain to where I'm considering euthanization, but I was just asking to know what options there are. The comments about the tick parasite causing very similar symptoms has given me some hope, so I'm going to pursue that. I just don't think any of the vets here in Trat are equipped for blood tests. Maybe they can send out his blood sample...

Oh one thing I wanted to say (rant) about is the hardest thing so far has just been finding transportation for him. The songteaws will not stop for a dog wearing a diaper. I waited for over 1 hour outside my home trying to get to the vet's office and flagged down over 20 songteaws and none of them would stop. Eventually I hid my dog behind some chairs, but after they would see my dog they would refuse and drive away. Finally somebody called their friend and he took us.

[Pomthai]

If I were you, especially since getting him to a vet seems a problem, I'd skip the blood test and treat for a parasite from ticks anyway. Talk to the vet and try and get an accurate idea of the dogs weight and the dose of medication can be adjusted accordingly.

Good luck.

[Laughing Gravy]

What a difficult dilemma you have. My boy aged 8 was diagnosed with Lymph cancer last year. He went from a powerful 48kg Rottweiler to a 15kg in 6 weeks. he literally shrank from his head to his body and it ate him to the bone. He went blind, couldn't stand and couldn't eat. 3 vets would not put him down due to their Buddhists beliefs. They are not mine. The sad thing was I didn't have the heart or courage, to do it myself. On reflection I should have as he suffered and if ever the situation warrants it again. I will do the right thing. So to the OP, you make the right decision for your dog and you, if it comes to that decision. Good luck

One of the main reasons is I didn't have the knowledge on how to end his life without any suffering.

[NickJ]

There are alot of us here who feel for you. Stay strong and best wishs to you.....

[johninbkk71]

I brought my dog to Thailand from the states quite a while ago. In the past 2 years he's lost control of his bowels and bladder and his back legs are getting weaker and weaker. When he gets up after lying down, he cries quite a bit so he must be in pain. After he gets up he doesn't cry anymore. He pees all over himself and poops everywhere, but I wash him every day so that's not a big deal. I've taken him to 3 different vets, but they don't really have any answers.

I'm not ready for anything drastic, but since I have to think about it at this point, I asked a Thai friend if euthanization is practiced in Thailand. He said it's not. I also asked my girlfriend and she was shocked that people in other countries euthanize animals who are dying. So I guess euthanization is not an option here.

So, I have two questions:

1) What should I do if my dog's condition gets worse and he's in too much pain? Just let him deal with it? Should I give him certain drugs to ease the pain?

2) When a dog dies, what can I do with the body? Can I have him cremated at the hospital or a temple? A friend said Thai people usually dig a hole and bury the body, but I live in a residential area and that doesn't seem like a good idea.

Euthanization is possible with some vets. If want a second opinion on your dogs health and are in Bangkok try the vet clinic at Kasersat university. Very busy but very knowledgeable and they won't overcharge you. I had an old cat they said they could put him down if I wanted.

And there are places were pet funerals can be arranged

[hdkane]

Thailand is a well known destination for "right to die" groups, and certain Thai vets are well known sources of phenobarbital.

http://www.ibtimes.com/west-australians-heading-thailand-euthanasia-drugs-190034

If you can find these drugs, I'd like to know...I asked my vet, and he told me that vets here no longer offer the drug...too bad, because I need to plan for the demise of my own beloved pet...I'm not about to let him suffer...

[dageurreotype]

Hey, sorry I haven't gotten back to any of the questions yet, and thank you everybody for all the info and support.

I should have said some more information about my dog and what I've done so far, so here it is:

• My dog is a labrador/chow mix. He's close to 11 years old. I adopted him when he was around 1 year old.
• The bowel problems started before the bladder or leg problems. He would be lying down and would jump up surprised because he was pooping.
• A bit later he started dripping pee. It wasn't too bad at first, just a few drips every now and then and sometimes when he was sleeping he would pee and bit more and there would be a puddle.
• The pooping problems begin to get worse, the dripping pee begin to get worse. I went to one of the local vets (in mainland Trat, Thailand) and he said he's just old. He gave me some calcium pills.
• Eventually I started noticing some problems with his lower back/butt area. If you touched or scratched that area he would lose a bit of control, either dropping his rear end a bit or jutting his butt out to the side.
• I moved to the island Koh Chang in Trat and took him to a Thai vet there because he had a pretty bad leg injury (he had a cut I didn't notice and flies got in and laid eggs). We got that fixed up and I asked about the other issues but she wasn't really sure.
• The leg would just wasn't healing, so someone told me about another doctor on Koh Chang. It's an American lady who has a non-profit clinic there and she's been helping dogs for I think around 10 or 15 years. I went there and she told me the wound cleaning procedure the Thai vet gave me wasn't correct (betadine prevents new tissue growth), so I followed her advice and that worked. I also obviously asked about the other issues and she did give me another pill for him to take for (I believe) 3 weeks. I believe it was for parasites but I'm not certain. I will be emailing her and finding out exactly what it was for.
• She called me later and said her friend, an Australian veterinarian, is coming to the island and could stop by my house and check out my dog. He came by and checked him out and said there's a good chance he's developed a tumor on his spine which is causing these issues.

That's basically the gist of it. I know I'm forgetting some things. He's definitely not in enough pain to where I'm considering euthanization, but I was just asking to know what options there are. The comments about the tick parasite causing very similar symptoms has given me some hope, so I'm going to pursue that. I just don't think any of the vets here in Trat are equipped for blood tests. Maybe they can send out his blood sample...

Oh one thing I wanted to say (rant) about is the hardest thing so far has just been finding transportation for him. The songteaws will not stop for a dog wearing a diaper. I waited for over 1 hour outside my home trying to get to the vet's office and flagged down over 20 songteaws and none of them would stop. Eventually I hid my dog behind some chairs, but after they would see my dog they would refuse and drive away. Finally somebody called their friend and he took us.

I recently had to have my last dog euthanised here on Phuket. He was around the same age as your dog. He'd been diagnosed with kidney disease three years ago and I had been told he'd probably have one more year, but lasted three Your dog of course doesn't have kidney disease but I'm simply posting to say euthanasia is very freely available here and in larger cities. What you must do is get your dog to an animal hospital for an x-ray/sonar to check out whether it is indeed a cyst. They will also do bloodwork to determine exact cause, you won't get that on an internet forum, however well intended. You sound as if you have transportation problems. Can a friend/neighbour get your dog up to Phuket? I believe a Thai would drive you both up here for a not so large sum. Thais are great on arranging transport Seriously, that's what you need to do. Good luck

[Sheryl]

OP has stated that things are not at the stage where you would consider euthanasia, he is just asking for future reference.

OP: I suggest you invest in a trip to Bangkok with the dog to verify the suspected diagnosis of spinal tumor and see if it is surgically resectable. If the tumor can be surgically removed or reduced in size this ought to greatly reduce or eliminate the pain, at least for a while. Less likely to improve bowel and bladder control since those nerves may have already been permanently damaged, but who knows.

I suggest you contact Dr. Tony at Parichart Suwintawong Animal Hospital which is in Minburi near the airport. He is also on the faculty of a major University Vet Hospital and would probably refer you there if scans are needed (Parichart has lab and Xray but not probably not CT/MRI).The number at Parichart is 02-557-6608/9. I can also send you Dr. Tony's mobile number by PM if you want.

If you go this route, and if a spinal tumor is confirmed, be very clear with the doctor in your questioning and discussions in terms of the dog's quality of life being the priority as the University Hospital has the capacity to do things like radiation and chemo....and as with people, these may sometimes just prolong the dying process without necessarily giving more quality time. So ask clearly about side effects, likely benefits etc. With a spinal tumor, if it is possible to surgically resect it, I would definitely do that as it will surely reduce pain, which is otherwise going to get worse and worse as the tumor grows. I am less sure of the pros/cons of radiation treatment, would have to discuss in detail with the doctor if this is suggested.

Regardless, the use of steroids such as prednisolone will help symptomatically by reducing swelling around the tumor and it should be possible to get this even from local vet in the island. Beta-glucan can also help and is available in Thailand in several formulations including a flavored gel that is very easy to administer. My local vet here in Prachinburi has it so good chance a vet in Trat would. Beta-glucan is a type of immune therapy and may help slow the growth of the tumor, though it will not eradicate it. So even if you decide against taking the dog to Bangkok, at least get him on steroids and Beta Glucan.

In humans with incurable spinal tumors, neuroablative surgeries are suipmetimes done to deaden the affeceted nerves and stop the pain, or spinal cord stimulators implanted to interrupt the pain signals. Only a few places worldwide are doing this in animals and I doubt it is available in Thailand but no harm in asling about it if spinal tumor confirmed and is unresectable.

You do not mention what the dog has so far been given in terms of pain meds. NSAIDs are the usual choice initially (and i nThailand often the only one for pets) but for pain that is not relieved by NSAIDs alone, tramadol works in dogs and can be purchased in Thailand over the counter (though has to be at a pharmacy with a first grade pharmacist on duty). The dose for dogs is 2-4 mg/kg, every 4-6 hours.

Besides pain killers, neuroleptic drugs may help as the pain is neuro in origin. Gabapentin is the usual choice and also available OTC in Thailand. Dose in dogs is

5-10 mg/kg every 12 hours.

See http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/dr-coates/2014/may/treating-chronic-pain-dogs-31653

While I am not totally against euthenasia in all cases, I do think that it should not be the first resort instead of measures to control pain. In the West I think we go to that extreme way too much (and also resort to it to treat the owner' distress as much or more than the pet's). In Thailand, they don''t tend to do this but they also do not tend to try to do anything about the pain, which is to me the opposite extreme. there is a middle ground, wherein one can try to reduce the pet's suffering to a level he/she can tolerate so that they can have a natural death without extreme suffering. There may be times when all possible measures aren't able to achieve this but a lot of the time i think it can be, and is certainly worth a try.

[Dogmatix]

Foreign breeds are more susceptible to Thai parasites and, particularly, foreign born dogs. Ticks are a no. culprit. We had a lovely Golden Retriever who died suddenly of kidney disease brought on by an infestation of ticks aged 7. Two Thai Bangkaew dogs lived through the infestation of ticks that lasted about 9 months before we found the right chemical to spray everywhere to kill them. I pulled 30 ticks a day off one of the Bangkaews, who was the worst infested, but she and the other Bangkaew were completely unharmed by them. Even their coats and skin were completely unaffected whereas the poor old retriever was in a sorry state.

In Bangkok there is a temple that cremates pet dogs and cats, where our Golden Retriever went on his last journey. I can't tell you where it is because, sadly I was travelling at the time. There are probably other temples in other places that do the same nowadays. You can even buy pet coffins.

I believe that some Thai vets do practise euthanasia. My mother-in-law had a dog that was hit by a pick-up truck, driven by a drunk villager speeding past her house at night, when he was only a few months old and was partly lame and paralysed. The poor thing could only drag itself around sideways. The mother-in-law had no fence to the house, so she chained him up when she went out, so he wouldn't get run over again. That probably didn't matter too much because he couldn't go very far anyway but he was a pitiful sight chained up with a broken body. When I saw him like that I immediately proposed euthanasia as a merciful solution but the wife and mother-in-law were horrified, as if I had suggested that we all take drugs and have an orgy together. So he struggled on like that for another six months until his maker mercifully took him away. Now mother-in-law is banned from owning any more dogs by my wife, as she seems to have a jinx with them. Several were either run over, poisoned by horrid villagers or died suddenly of disease. We didn't want to hear any more sad stories. She has offered to take care of our dogs in her house when we go away, but you can imagine what the answer was.

[tigergrl]

some dogs have the ability to clear the tick borne infections from there own systems. other dogs need antibiotic treatment, iron and supportive

therapy. my thai dog has had the tick parasites several times, each time requiring multiple vet visits, blood tests and 60 days treatment with

doxycycline, plus iron supplements. the tick parasites attack the white and red blood cells, and kill off the platelets. a low WBC count, with low

RBCs and low platelets is used here to establish need for treatment for blood parasites. in some places there is a test for the specific type of

parasite but they all use the same treatment so local vets don't seem to do this.

the disease is called e canis in dogs.. it will often kill a dog if left untreated. it also effects the kidneys and liver, so please.. find a way to get

your dog tested for them. it's a simple blood test takes a few hours to get results. there are a few other markers on the blood count that the

vet will use to show for reasonable assessment that the dog has it. the kidney function could also possibly be a side effect, but this is very

treatable if it is the case. there are multiple strains of this disease.. Ehrlichia, Babesia, Anaplasmosis etc. some effect the eyes and can cause

blindness. it is incredibly common problem with dogs here.

as others have said... there are some vets who will perform euthanasia when an animal is truly suffering. my local vet put down a stray puppy
i had found that had advanced parvo.. it had passed to neurological stage, so the only choice was to put her down. i think some people jump

to this action when it should be the last choice, when other treatments or attempts to manage pain are no longer working.

I'm sorry for you and your dog, a few tests can reveal the causes and then maybe an adequate treatment can be found. one final thing is that

if blood parasites are found, you must not mix the doxy with the iron supplements by giving them at the same time. they need to be given with

at least 6 hours between them. 12 hours if possible if the dog is on 1 treatment of doxy per day.

good luck

[migrant]

We face a similar issue so am asking advice on this older thread.  We found 2 puppies that were born to wild dogs and took them home.  The male is excellent, but even on the first day (10 days ago) the female had issues with her back legs.  Took her to the local vet here in Bang Saphan.  He is good, but minimal facilities, can't do blood tests.  He said it was probably a bad fever (she was hot) and gave us some antibiotics.  After a couple days she was just laying there crying periodically and unable to move.  We took her to the vet teaching hospital in Hua Hin and they did blood tests.  Said she had blood parasites and it has reached into her brain.  We asked if in the brain what can be done?  They didn't give a definitive answer, but refused to put her down.  They loaded us up with meds (after 3 consecutive days driving to Hua Hin (6 hours round trip) including predsilone.  She has gotten to the stage where she lifts her head, and is more aware, but still can't move.  She still cries often and, not being able to walk, soils herself constantly.  Her front legs work, but back legs are completely limp.

 

My view is that quality of life, whether humans, or animals, is what we live for.  Unless she can get her back legs working, I can't see her enjoying her life, she certainly isn't now.

 

My questions, has anyone experienced this where the parasites have reached the brain?  Has there been any kind of recovery?

It appears that we will have trouble if we want to put her down, finding someone, so any help is appreciated.

 

We would love to get her better, but if in the brain, not sure if possible

 

Thanks all, with the close contact, hand feeding, watering, and comforting, we have become attached.

[meatboy]

15 minutes ago, migrant said:

We face a similar issue so am asking advice on this older thread.  We found 2 puppies that were born to wild dogs and took them home.  The male is excellent, but even on the first day (10 days ago) the female had issues with her back legs.  Took her to the local vet here in Bang Saphan.  He is good, but minimal facilities, can't do blood tests.  He said it was probably a bad fever (she was hot) and gave us some antibiotics.  After a couple days she was just laying there crying periodically and unable to move.  We took her to the vet teaching hospital in Hua Hin and they did blood tests.  Said she had blood parasites and it has reached into her brain.  We asked if in the brain what can be done?  They didn't give a definitive answer, but refused to put her down.  They loaded us up with meds (after 3 consecutive days driving to Hua Hin (6 hours round trip) including predsilone.  She has gotten to the stage where she lifts her head, and is more aware, but still can't move.  She still cries often and, not being able to walk, soils herself constantly.  Her front legs work, but back legs are completely limp.

 

My view is that quality of life, whether humans, or animals, is what we live for.  Unless she can get her back legs working, I can't see her enjoying her life, she certainly isn't now.

 

My questions, has anyone experienced this where the parasites have reached the brain?  Has there been any kind of recovery?

It appears that we will have trouble if we want to put her down, finding someone, so any help is appreciated.

 

We would love to get her better, but if in the brain, not sure if possible

 

Thanks all, with the close contact, hand feeding, watering, and comforting, we have become attached.

going on my experiance with a neighbours dog who we looked after for 6yrs.went the same,his back legs wouldnt hold him up,but i managed to feed him with a spoon.there was nothing that we could do as it wasnt ours.although he was 12yrs.old i think he knew the end was near,then one evening he stood up and enjoyed his dinner and made his way over to our house to see our boy.

after awhile he went back home rearly happy so i thought,he passed away that night.

R.I.P. DOERAEMON NEVER TO BE FORGOTTON.

[Big Guns]

My 11 year old labrador had kidney failure & the vet put her to sleep. He came to my house, the dog was in my gym where she loved to snooze & the vet injected her & she just went to sleep. My advice is find a good vet as some are really helpful.