Gay parents fight for custody with surrogate in Thailand

[Jingthing]

I reckon he insinuated that you were a friend of Dorothy.

[jaidam]

The whole gay parents adopting circus is likely to hit the news in a big way today. Poor poor kids, and yes again Jaidam told you so. Not a bigot, just a realist.

[Jingthing]

The whole gay parents adopting circus is likely to hit the news in a big way today. Poor poor kids, and yes again Jaidam told you so. Not a bigot, just a realist.

So what's the news going to be, mate?

[jaidam]

The whole gay parents adopting circus is likely to hit the news in a big way today. Poor poor kids, and yes again Jaidam told you so. Not a bigot, just a realist.

So what's the news going to be, mate?

Yes not much point waiting for msm to cover the inevitable collapse of the ridiculous "family" setup of the 2 rich old but oh so PC gay men that started this whole fashion. Predictable that the kids would get hurt in such an unnatural scenario. Should clearly still be illegal.

[tominbkk]

Again, many trollish homophobes haunting this thread. Best to ignore them.

[Jingthing]

The whole gay parents adopting circus is likely to hit the news in a big way today. Poor poor kids, and yes again Jaidam told you so. Not a bigot, just a realist.

So what's the news going to be, mate?

Yes not much point waiting for msm to cover the inevitable collapse of the ridiculous "family" setup of the 2 rich old but oh so PC gay men that started this whole fashion. Predictable that the kids would get hurt in such an unnatural scenario. Should clearly still be illegal.

So there was no news. Maybe next time wait for the news before foolishly making predictions.

[Patsycat]

The homophobia and vitriol is just sickening. Over the past few homophobic comments none have offered a solution to what will happen to this child if her parents lose their battle.

There is a child involved. All you barstewards are ranting on about is your disgust about gay men.

Give it a break - i am sure most gay men and women have heard your sad comments for decades. A lesbian couple i have known for 30 years still get the "let's have a threesome" comment.

And perhaps you are a bit put off that gay people do actually have a say in what goes on in the world now!!

Carmen should go home with her parents.

I just don't understand how, even deep inside your sad, blinkered lives, you cannot see that too.

Makes me sad. It was her fathers birthday the other day. They put a vid on facebook. Wonderful!!

[BritManToo]

The homophobia and vitriol is just sickening. Over the past few homophobic comments none have offered a solution to what will happen to this child if her parents lose their battle.

There is a child involved. All you barstewards are ranting on about is your disgust about gay men.

Give it a break - i am sure most gay men and women have heard your sad comments for decades.

And perhaps you are a bit put off that gay people do actually have a say in what goes on in the world now!!

Carmen should go home with her parents.

And I'm sort of surprised about the levels of homophobia from guys who are supposedly living in Thailand.

It's not as if encounters with those of a 'different sexuality' is exactly rare in this country.

Live and let live is my motto.

This kid only has one identifiable biological parent, and her place should be with him.

[Patsycat]

The egg donor also came forward. So she has two parents.

[smutcakes]

The homophobia and vitriol is just sickening. Over the past few homophobic comments none have offered a solution to what will happen to this child if her parents lose their battle.

There is a child involved. All you barstewards are ranting on about is your disgust about gay men.

Give it a break - i am sure most gay men and women have heard your sad comments for decades. A lesbian couple i have known for 30 years still get the "let's have a threesome" comment.

And perhaps you are a bit put off that gay people do actually have a say in what goes on in the world now!!

Carmen should go home with her parents.

I just don't understand how, even deep inside your sad, blinkered lives, you cannot see that too.

Makes me sad. It was her fathers birthday the other day. They put a vid on facebook. Wonderful!!

If someone does not agree with same sex couples having children, does that automatically make them homophobic?

For someone seemingly preaching acceptance of other people's views, you yourself seem fairly close minded when it comes to accepting other peoples view points you may not agree with. Just because people don't agree with you, you have labelled them 'sad' 'blinkered' 'bar stewards' etc. perhaps you should practice what you preach.

[Jingthing]

It kind of does because it's a position that denies civil rights that they enjoy to a minority group.

If I said, black people shouldn't be able to breed, would that make me a racist? Yes, it would.

Of course I can understand deeply held RELIGIOUS beliefs.

Which might matter in theocratic nations, for better or worse.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

To add the intolerance of people for gay parenting can get really, really serious for some people.

Including lesbians because of course lesbians are more often parents than gay men, when a lesbian has a child through a previous relationship or turkey baster stuff in areas where gay parenting is illegal, the child can be taken from her or her and her spouse.

Not OK!

[smutcakes]

It kind of does because it's a position that denies civil rights that they enjoy to a minority group.

If I said, black people shouldn't be able to breed, would that make me a racist? Yes, it would.

Of course I can understand deeply held RELIGIOUS beliefs.

Which might matter in theocratic nations, for better or worse.

What about my civil right for free speech, are you discrininating against me based on my belief? You could just go round and round in circles.

I dont thnk your example is very relevant, of course that would be racist. However it would be not racist or homophobic in my view if i stated that i dont agree with same sex people having children, regardless of ethnicity or sex.

[Jingthing]

You have the right of free speech. Absolutely. But I have the right to think that opposing same sex parental rights is bigoted in a homophobic way. Deal?

Edited April 9, 2016 by Jingthing

[smutcakes]

You have the right of free speech. Absolutely. But I have the right to think that opposing same sex parental rights is bigoted in a homophobic way. Deal?

Absolutely fine, i will not lose any sleep over it. I am not the one in this thread being hypocritical by on the one hand slamming those who do not love the idea of gay persons having children as bigoted, homophobic, and leading sad blinkered lifes etc as Patsycat did whilst on the other had showing the same blinkereness and disdain for people who do not agree with their views.

[NCFC]

Hear, hear. they dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

Poor kid going to miss out on living with a normal family because farang cash is king.

[Jingthing]

Hear, hear. they dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

Poor kid going to miss out on living with a normal family because farang cash is king.

Are you privy to the legal decision?

[Rhys]

Certainly a challenge, what has all been said is part of the drama....it appears the child will be well provided for with a supportive extended family. "Future issue regarding, life...as a child with two caring dad, could have implications, however, the child will certain grow up with certain strengths."

All the moralists, arm-chair child development theorists, and the rest of us.... we shall see how it all turns out in a decade.

In the mean time, I think, the child will have a better chance with two "loving and caring, and capable parents."

The definition of family and marriage had changed legally... debates that followed put the law makers in this challenging position and they the rest of society holds their breathe and breathes out..what this fish!

Edited April 9, 2016 by Rhys

[Patsycat]

I'm sorry, love, but a lot of the comments on this thread are homophobic. The argument has moved from the best life for Carmen to outright nastiness,

None of you would post on this thread if it was a hetero couple, in the same situation, in such a horrible way.

This couple have been together for years, already have a son and now a daughter. Get over it!!

Carmen is loved, not only by her parents - but by thousands of people who have followed this story.

Does the "womb" love her? I don't think so.

There's a lovely pic of Carmen getting ready for Songkran on Fussybook, with her toddler sized water pistol. I won't copy and paste in case someone brings up child pornography again.

[jaidam]

Imagine if that Japanese lad that made a couple dozen test tube babies in Thailand had been gay, we would not have been allowed to voice concerns. Luckily he was not gay, therefore he was fair game, and he was condemned by all on tvf. Unnatural sorcery at best, making a product for sale/rent to his fellow kiddiefiddlers at worst.

Why the personal insults when we try to discus this mess? I personally have many gay and lesbian friends with one couple having adopted 3 children. I have no issues and am supportive of their situation. That has nothing whatsoever to do with these 2 adult gay men travelling around the world making illegal test tube kids. The risk factor for the kid is through the roof. How about if mr Townsend and mr Gadd married and wanted to create a few test tube babies , you would say now wait just a cotton picking moment!

[Johnniey]

Hear, hear. they dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

Poor kid going to miss out on living with a normal family because farang cash is king.

Yes, it's utterly immoral this whole situation on many levels.

[uthaithanirules]

None of you would post on this thread if it was a hetero couple, in the same situation, in such a horrible way.

Arggh, total crap.

The thai laws were changed in the first place mainly thanks to a nasty little australian hetero couple that left a twin with down syndrome behind.

Designer babies, being able to choose the sex, bypassing the laws of poorer countries if you have enough cash

All why many countries have banned this stuff outright, including Spain.

Plenty of hetero couples that were left in the lurch in the same way when Thailands law changed, but dont get any attention becuase they arent gay, just aint newsworthy

[tominbkk]

None of you would post on this thread if it was a hetero couple, in the same situation, in such a horrible way.

Arggh, total crap.

The thai laws were changed in the first place mainly thanks to a nasty little australian hetero couple that left a twin with down syndrome behind.

Designer babies, being able to choose the sex, bypassing the laws of poorer countries if you have enough cash

All why many countries have banned this stuff outright, including Spain.

Plenty of hetero couples that were left in the lurch in the same way when Thailands law changed, but dont get any attention becuase they arent gay, just aint newsworthy

Can you back that claim up with sources?

[Jingthing]

Likely fictional hyperbole.

[rgs2001uk]

None of you would post on this thread if it was a hetero couple, in the same situation, in such a horrible way.

Arggh, total crap.

The thai laws were changed in the first place mainly thanks to a nasty little australian hetero couple that left a twin with down syndrome behind.

Designer babies, being able to choose the sex, bypassing the laws of poorer countries if you have enough cash

All why many countries have banned this stuff outright, including Spain.

Plenty of hetero couples that were left in the lurch in the same way when Thailands law changed, but dont get any attention becuase they arent gay, just aint newsworthy

Can you back that claim up with sources?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Thai_surrogacy_controversy

[Sayonarax]

14 months old means he was born before the law changed..

[Sayonarax]

None of you would post on this thread if it was a hetero couple, in the same situation, in such a horrible way.

Arggh, total crap.

The thai laws were changed in the first place mainly thanks to a nasty little australian hetero couple that left a twin with down syndrome behind.

Designer babies, being able to choose the sex, bypassing the laws of poorer countries if you have enough cash

All why many countries have banned this stuff outright, including Spain.

Plenty of hetero couples that were left in the lurch in the same way when Thailands law changed, but dont get any attention becuase they arent gay, just aint newsworthy

Can you back that claim up with sources?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Thai_surrogacy_controversy

Not sure why you wasted your time googling stuff for idiots who cant be bothered doing their own research.

[Patsycat]

He is a she and her name is Carmen.

Even the husband of the surrogate has said that he doesn't want her.

So, if this all goes tits up, where is she going to go? To some crappy orphanage? Ripped away from the only family she knows? This is not about her parents, this is about her. that wee thing.

Who is loved and in a loving family with extended loving aunties and grannies - to take that away from her would be terrible. She just needs to go home to be with her family.

The "womb" is not interested in the child. She just wants money.

Jeez, if i had a spare million dollars i would <deleted> give it to her. Just so she would sign the paper to give Carmen her passport.

[cpofc]

On the whole,i have nothing against gay men.Although,i have to say,i have no time for camp men,I find that camp man are not my cup of tea. I say this,because working in the big hotels in London and certain 'Gentle men's' clubs,i found the 'antics and behaviour of the Kitchen and room staff very embarrassing.

I don't blame couples for WANTING kids.But i find something odorous about a child being raised in a homosexual environment.It doesn't give the child enough space to form its own sexual identity. However i think that the surrogate mother is pulling a fast one here.Lying about being unaware that they were gay,refusing to hand the child over,and probably trying to up the ante at a later date.I think they were foolish to carry out the plan here thinking that this would not happen.This is a country where no one is to be trusted,especially where money is concerned.

Yes we know. Many anti-gay bigots don't support parenthood rights for GLBT people.

'We' know? Who is we? Are you the leader of the push here? Trying to rev up 'the mob'. You're a bully mate.

Many Anti-Gay Bigots? Shouldn't that be ALL anti gay bigots? I couldn't see your average anti-gay bigot being in favour of parenthood rights for gays. But I could be wrong.

Where do you bullies get off calling people bigots and all the other insults you throw about. You think you hold the moral high ground do you? What if I am not an anti gay bigot and I still do not support the buying and selling of human beings. Additionally, what if I don't support Gay Marriage or this abomination that is going on here. I.E. Cashed up same Sex Couples buying children on demand from the poor inhabitants of developing countries. Good grief, what is the world coming to. Perhaps the Hopie Indians are right.

I should not have to go into some lengthy diatribe about how some of my best friends are gay, yada yada in order to convince you that I am not a bigot, that I am not anti gay, not that it would do the likes of you, a bully, any good, but suffice to say that my values and principles prevent me from supporting Gay Marriage and particulary Gay Adoption.

Now before you start harping on about those values and principles. It is no secret that Christianity has been around for 2000 years or so. So we are not talking about some sort of popular bandwagon here. Like it or Not! For the past 500 of those years Western Christian Civilisation has led and dominated the world, in virtually everything. Personally I am not religious and i am not a practising christian. But I was born and brought up in a civilised country which continually extols the virtues of such a society - One founded upon christian laws and values. This is just the way it is. I shouldn't be abused by the likes of you, or anyone else for having these values.

Something I find very amusing is the incessant mocking of these Christian values my country was supposedly 'built' upon, especially from the name calling bullies in the militant gay community, because when the subject of Islamic Immigration and Sharia Law comes up many of those who mock quickly become 'born again', quick to point out that very same Christian heritage.

And the Muslims? Isil? Well, they would just throw these two blokes off a tall building and be done with them.

[Jingthing]

You're correct and thanks for the catch -- ALL anti-gay bigots don't support parenthood rights for GLBT people.

On that note, no interest in reading any future RANTS on the superiority of "Christian" values and that's the way it is. Too bad, homos, no civil rights for you. We're Christian, we're straight, you don't deserve the same civil rights because you're different. Bloody Satan's place, if that's way it is, that way needs to change.

Welcome to my ignore list.

---

Moving on from that, when talking about THIS case yes it certainly is not a "pure" case of a GLBT civil rights issue.

The couple is foreign and must deal with Thai law.

The father signed for a service here before the law was changed.

Even though married, the contract needed to between a single man, the father, and the surrogate woman.

It's a hot mess, that's for sure, but the baby exists and has bonded well with the married couple (not in the eyes of Thai law, but STILL married), and the obvious logical choice is the baby should leave Thailand with them.

That doesn't mean she will or that a legal case can be made for that to happen.

So we'll see, won't we?

To add, being for or against surrogacy isn't really material to the case. In THIS case, the surrogacy did happen and the baby exists. Surrogacy isn't on trial.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Jingthing