Can i remove someone from my tabien ban?

[marino28]

Good evening everybody,

if i put the name of my girlfriend and child in my tabien ban (have condo in my name) can i remove in the future in case that something did not go well?

if i understand correct, put name of pepole in the tabien ban is not a big deal. The condo will still be mine, and i can still do what i want with hit. Is it correct?

thanks

best regards

[johnatong]

You should ask at the Amphur and remove the name(s) before the place is mortgaged without your knowledge

[Henryford]

I guess you mean the condo blue book. I am thinking of adding my girlfriend but have similar concerns. I presume you could not remove until she has somewhere else to add her name to. Might be difficult be i am no expert. I think every thai has to be on a TB so she might refuse to go on another.

[cadcat]

The Thai name in the house book can be removed.

I assume your tabien ban is blue.

You have to prove that you are the owner (freehold) or have a registered lease plus the deed with your lease on the back.

This shows that you the owner of the property ( full,- or for a certain time )

As your name can not be on a blue book, it is needed - with a thai name - for many purposes. ( ID-card, School registration etc.)

A yellow book ( with your name on it) will give you all you'll need (Proof of residence, car registration. water, electric satellite bill etc in your name.

To remove the unwanted thai name (without consent) from the blue book, you present the necessary docs, sign an application and after 180 days the name can be removed.

If you want to register your GF on the book, be sure her name is not added as "house owner" if possible

You have full rights and duty over the property as long its legally in your name.

This includes which person(s) can live there - even if it's your GF or wife -

[swissbie]

Yes, you're correct, marino, it's no problem. You can remove persons (names) easily, we have done this many times, always took a few minutes. A ta bien bahn can't be used to mortgage a property as it doesn' say anything about the ownership, even the "chau bahn" can't do this (at least in legal means, i don't know about loan sharks though). The ta bien bahn is only used for registration/confirmation of the adress.

[cadcat]

Please keep in mind:

If you register your GF and child, you establish official "support"

As you are living together with her, you take her on as "common wife"

If a later separation is contested, the house paper will be the least of your problems.

[georgemandm]

Yes, you're correct, marino, it's no problem. You can remove persons (names) easily, we have done this many times, always took a few minutes. A ta bien bahn can't be used to mortgage a property as it doesn' say anything about the ownership, even the "chau bahn" can't do this (at least in legal means, i don't know about loan sharks though). The ta bien bahn is only used for registration/confirmation of the adress.

Very , very true all the blue books says is someone lives there .

[swissbie]

Please keep in mind:

If you register your GF and child, you establish official "support"

As you are living together with her, you take her on as "common wife"

If a later separation is contested, the house paper will be the least of your problems.

Never heard anything like that. Could you post a link or copy which leads to such an information? Would be appreciated very much as i would have missed something for many years.

[Mudcrab]

Please keep in mind:

If you register your GF and child, you establish official "support"

As you are living together with her, you take her on as "common wife"

If a later separation is contested, the house paper will be the least of your problems.

Common law or de-facto wife has no legal bearing in Thailand

Don't post rubbish information from the "old country"

[cadcat]

The moment you decide to live ( or fall in love with and have intercourse with ) a woman you engage in a relationship that bears consequences.

This is true and recognised under law everywhere in the world.

It does not matter anymore if you are legally married or live together " as man and wife". It's almost the same.

Let's speak about Thailand.

The moment you support a thai woman you take her as your "common wife".

If you are single, the support is established when you live together, give her monthly money, housepaper entry etc.

If you are married, supporting another woman ( as you would your wife ) means you break the marriage. Your wife can file for divorce and sue the woman for financial compensation (lost face).

If your wife would have sexual relations with another man a proof of support is not needed. You can demand a divorce and also sue the man for financial compensation.

Law, Justice and common sense are NOT the same.

Even with the best intentions, life has its own ways. Most relationships and many marriages break.

Do not think for a moment that living with a thai woman is something one can ( or should ) just "walk away" from if contested.

It's all the time best to settle and be reasonable as in the end it's all about money.

As I say to my friends: Every man has the woman he deserves and can afford.

Not many take it as a man.

[blackcab]

The Thai name in the house book can be removed.

I assume your tabien ban is blue.

You have to prove that you are the owner (freehold) or have a registered lease plus the deed with your lease on the back.

This shows that you the owner of the property ( full,- or for a certain time )

As your name can not be on a blue book, it is needed - with a thai name - for many purposes. ( ID-card, School registration etc.)

A yellow book ( with your name on it) will give you all you'll need (Proof of residence, car registration. water, electric satellite bill etc in your name.

To remove the unwanted thai name (without consent) from the blue book, you present the necessary docs, sign an application and after 180 days the name can be removed.

If you want to register your GF on the book, be sure her name is not added as "house owner" if possible

You have full rights and duty over the property as long its legally in your name.

This includes which person(s) can live there - even if it's your GF or wife -

A blue book doesn't have to have any names on it at all to be used for government purposes. I have several blue books in my office safe that are completely empty. They are for apartment buildings that the company I work for owns.

These empty blue books have been used for (amongst other things):

Getting water and electricity connected

VAT registration

Contracts with other businesses

Gaining alcohol and cigarette licenses

Registration of a sole trader at the district office

Dealings with the Engineering department

Being assesed for building tax

[blackcab]

Please keep in mind:

If you register your GF and child, you establish official "support"

As you are living together with her, you take her on as "common wife"

If a later separation is contested, the house paper will be the least of your problems.

Completely incorrect in Thailand. Look up the difference between sin somros and sin suan tua.

[Delight]

Please keep in mind:

If you register your GF and child, you establish official "support"

As you are living together with her, you take her on as "common wife"

If a later separation is contested, the house paper will be the least of your problems.

Common law or de-facto wife has no legal bearing in Thailand

Don't post rubbish information from the "old country"

No such things as common law marriage in Thailand

So say Samuiforsale

https://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/common-law-marriage-thailand.html

[cadcat]

"Common law or de-facto wife has no legal bearing in Thailand"

... says a thai lawyer ?

... or rules a judge ?

... or says the family of the woman you live with ?

dream on.

[blackcab]

The moment you decide to live ( or fall in love with and have intercourse with ) a woman you engage in a relationship that bears consequences.

This is true and recognised under law everywhere in the world.

It does not matter anymore if you are legally married or live together " as man and wife". It's almost the same.

Let's speak about Thailand.

The moment you support a thai woman you take her as your "common wife".

If you are single, the support is established when you live together, give her monthly money, housepaper entry etc.

If you are married, supporting another woman ( as you would your wife ) means you break the marriage. Your wife can file for divorce and sue the woman for financial compensation (lost face).

If your wife would have sexual relations with another man a proof of support is not needed. You can demand a divorce and also sue the man for financial compensation.

Law, Justice and common sense are NOT the same.

Even with the best intentions, life has its own ways. Most relationships and many marriages break.

Do not think for a moment that living with a thai woman is something one can ( or should ) just "walk away" from if contested.

It's all the time best to settle and be reasonable as in the end it's all about money.

As I say to my friends: Every man has the woman he deserves and can afford.

Not many take it as a man.

OK, let's talk about Thailand as you suggested. Until you are married on paper (not a village wedding) you are not legally liable for anything.

What's yours stays yours.

You need to update your understanding on this topic.

[blackcab]

"Common law or de-facto wife has no legal bearing in Thailand"

... says a thai lawyer ?

... or rules a judge ?

... or says the family of the woman you live with ?

dream on.

Says Thai law:

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Title 1

Chapter 4

Section 1471

[cadcat]

I know, that I poked the hornets nest.

Where did I say that living with a thai woman " as husband and wife " constitutes and is recognised as being married under thai law ?

Or a "common law marriage" ?

To be absolutly clear: The moment you live together with a thai woman and support her as she were your wife (as stated in family law) the legal system will protect this women.

[blackcab]

I know, that I poked the hornets nest.

Where did I say that living with a thai woman " as husband and wife " constitutes and is recognised as being married under thai law ?

Or a "common law marriage" ?

To be absolutly clear: The moment you live together with a thai woman and support her as she were your wife (as stated in family law) the legal system will protect this women.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant, but to repeatedly try and pass off spurious information as fact makes you not only ignorant, but dangerous.

Where is your assertion stated in Thai law? I was good enough to cite the law to you. Can you actually tell us the section of the law that states,

"The moment you live together with a thai woman and support her as she were your wife (as stated in family law) the legal system will protect this women."

I'll save you the hassle. You won't be able to, because you are waffling on about something you probably heard from some other drunk on a barstool.

[cadcat]

"Until you are married on paper (not a village wedding) you are not legally liable for anything.
What's yours stays yours.

You need to update your understanding on this topic"

Thank you for your kind advise.

I posted my response to a house paper question.

And took the liberty to point out some (minor) legal problems if the GF's name is removed from this book without consent.

My understanding is, that under these circumstances the exGF might use the house paper entry as leverage against the ex partner.

In fact, a report filed at the police station stating that she and her farang BF lived together like "husband and wife" is sufficent.

These things happen every day when two ex lovers can not sort out their affairs alone.

Most of us live with thai woman (married or not). If the relationship breaks, it can get ugly quickly. To look at "the law" does not help.

"What's yours stays yours" is not up to you to decide. The final say has a judge in a thai court. Better to mediate or settle.

It all depends on the the exGF or wife ( in a divorce) and the lawyers.

[blackcab]

Your understanding is completely incorrect. You've been shown the law, but you refuse to educate yourself.

Instead you choose to continue to make a fool out of yourself. Go back to your barstool and have a chat with a tourist. They might actually believe what you say rather than calling you out when you repeat your incorrect statements.

Just to make it clear, the owner of a property needs no permission to remove anyone from a blue book. A girlfriend has no leverage whatsoever if they are removed without their consent because their consent isn't required.

Edited April 11, 2016 by blackcab

[cadcat]

It's getting late but I will answer your post.

- not that you deserve one -

You call me ignorant and dangerous.

As a "super member" I would expect you refrain from being personal and degrading.

The information I supplied is gained from personal experience over 26 years in Thailand and one contested divorce.

I'v been there,- done all that. And had to learn ( and also pay ) a lot.

The info I gave was for all fellow westerners who like to really know more than what you hear from some other drunk on a barstool.

[cadcat]

"Just to make it clear, the owner of a property needs no permission to remove anyone from a blue book. A girlfriend has no leverage whatsoever if they are removed without their consent because their consent isn't required."

You are right.

Please read my first post what to do if you are the owner and want to remove an entry from your blue book.

The person might not be available or just refuses to remove the entry.

If the person refuses to cancel the entry, my understanding is that there are more problems to be solved in the background.

If the person registered on the book is your GF (or wife) she has no standing under thai law as the property is yours alone.

Example: Tenant, GF, wife,- any person not being the owner or having registered rights on the deed.

Of course this can be taken to court, but as the owner , you have the power to grant access to house or land.

The police will support you first. All you need to do is to file a report and state that person X is not allowed to enter the property.

You do not need to give a reason. You can settle later in private or in court.

Now to the leverage.

If the GF does NOT agree to leave - which is often the case- she will not take out her name but use this and other means to "make you think it over"

She can not really push you with the book, but many people do not know their rights.

And this is what the poster was asking.

[LukKrueng]

seems this thread has gone from tabian ban to relationship issues...

To the point of the op:

tabian ban has nothing to do with property ownership. It's only purpose is a proof of registered address for thai people. Every thai person must be registered in one and it's used for just about any official issue from issuance of id cards, passports, buying vehicles and much much more. Once a person registers into a tabian ban, he/she automatically is removed from the one they were on before. I don't think you can remove someone from your tabian ban as the person must be registered somewhere instead.

But again, that has nothing to do with ownership or rights to the property. The owner can still sell or mortgage the property for which he needs the original title deed (chanot).

there is no "ownership"title in the tabian ban. There a "house chief" status, and usually the first person to be registered in the book will be the chief, But again, being the chief has nothing to do with ownership our rights in the property

[Naroge]

"Common law or de-facto wife has no legal bearing in Thailand"

... says a thai lawyer ?

... or rules a judge ?

... or says the family of the woman you live with ?

dream on.

The issue of "common law marriage" was raised in the "Ask the Lawyer" forum when it was still active. They replied very clearly that "common law marriage" is not recognized in Thailand.

Are you saying they are wrong?

[cadcat]

If a thai wants to (un)register his/her name on a housebook no proof of ownership, rental contact, lease etc is needed.

But the book must be presented.

The entry in the gouvernment database will be modified and the hard copy (the book) updated.

The thai person does not need to show the book with the old entry. It will be updated later.

The question was: Can a foreigner have a thai name removed from his Tabien ban?

The answer is Yes.

To do this read my first post. Proof of (farang) ownership is required. A grace period applies.

Do I need to confirm that I (farang) have done that myself in person ??

A thai, registered as "house chief" can require the removel of another resident by presenting the book. No proof of ownership required.

No grace period. The unregistered thai has to find an adress where to register him/herself again.

Thus my remark:

"If you want to register your GF on the book, be sure her name is not added as "house owner/chief" if possible"

I guess, something got lost in translation, but LukKreung made the ownership issue quite clear.

The relationship issues apply as the ownership can be an issue as it is an asset that falls under thai jurisdiction.

[cadcat]

"Common law or de-facto wife has no legal bearing in Thailand"

... says a thai lawyer ?

... or rules a judge ?

... or says the family of the woman you live with ?

dream on.

The issue of "common law marriage" was raised in the "Ask the Lawyer" forum when it was still active. They replied very clearly that "common law marriage" is not recognized in Thailand.

Are you saying they are wrong?

No,- there is only one kind of marriage recognized in TH. The legal one.

I never used the term "common law marriage"

I explained, that when you live together with your GF, a relationship is established when you support her as if she were your wife.

The civil code lists what that means in detail.

The term "common wife" is used by me to explain an unmarried relationship. The woman is seen as if she were your legal wife.

A village ceremony serves this purpose. Your GF will gain the blessing of the family and public.

If one does not agree to an informal marriage a common household and support demonstrates that you treat her as if she were your wife.

There are not may countries where an unmarried man can just walk away.

The thai female partner is seen as weaker and if she files a police report and/or hires a lawyer it can get ugly.

Again, the term used is "we lived together as husband and wife" ... and now he kicked me out etc.

What not many foreigners know:

If you marry (legal) you and your wife receive two papers.

One is the marriage registration.

The clerk will enter several points from his word processor that you have to answer. (family name, property ownership etc.)

One question will be how long you lived together "as husband as wife"

Let's say 4 years living together and 1 year marriage. Contested divorce. Mediation fails. Judge will see and rule 5 years total.

He will decide what's yours and hers.

[louse1953]

The moment you decide to live ( or fall in love with and have intercourse with ) a woman you engage in a relationship that bears consequences.

This is true and recognised under law everywhere in the world.

It does not matter anymore if you are legally married or live together " as man and wife". It's almost the same.

Let's speak about Thailand.

The moment you support a thai woman you take her as your "common wife".

If you are single, the support is established when you live together, give her monthly money, housepaper entry etc.

If you are married, supporting another woman ( as you would your wife ) means you break the marriage. Your wife can file for divorce and sue the woman for financial compensation (lost face).

If your wife would have sexual relations with another man a proof of support is not needed. You can demand a divorce and also sue the man for financial compensation.

Law, Justice and common sense are NOT the same.

Even with the best intentions, life has its own ways. Most relationships and many marriages break.

Do not think for a moment that living with a thai woman is something one can ( or should ) just "walk away" from if contested.

It's all the time best to settle and be reasonable as in the end it's all about money.

As I say to my friends: Every man has the woman he deserves and can afford.

Not many take it as a man.

While i admire your sentiment,what you say legally is utter rubbish.Why do you think so many Thai lads don't get legally married,they're smarter than the average bear,Booboo.

[louse1953]

"Common law or de-facto wife has no legal bearing in Thailand"

... says a thai lawyer ?

... or rules a judge ?

... or says the family of the woman you live with ?

dream on.

Says Thai law.

[louse1953]

"Common law or de-facto wife has no legal bearing in Thailand"

... says a thai lawyer ?

... or rules a judge ?

... or says the family of the woman you live with ?

dream on.

Says Thai law.

[blackcab]

No,- there is only one kind of marriage recognized in TH. The legal one.

I never used the term "common law marriage"

I explained, that when you live together with your GF, a relationship is established when you support her as if she were your wife.

The civil code lists what that means in detail.

The term "common wife" is used by me to explain an unmarried relationship. The woman is seen as if she were your legal wife.

A village ceremony serves this purpose. Your GF will gain the blessing of the family and public.

If one does not agree to an informal marriage a common household and support demonstrates that you treat her as if she were your wife.

There are not may countries where an unmarried man can just walk away.

The thai female partner is seen as weaker and if she files a police report and/or hires a lawyer it can get ugly.

Again, the term used is "we lived together as husband and wife" ... and now he kicked me out etc.

What not many foreigners know:

If you marry (legal) you and your wife receive two papers.

One is the marriage registration.

The clerk will enter several points from his word processor that you have to answer. (family name, property ownership etc.)

One question will be how long you lived together "as husband as wife"

Let's say 4 years living together and 1 year marriage. Contested divorce. Mediation fails. Judge will see and rule 5 years total.

He will decide what's yours and hers.

"I explained, that when you live together with your GF, a relationship is established when you support her as if she were your wife.

The civil code lists what that means in detail."

Correct. As I pointed out previously, the civil code says she has zero claim on anything that is yours.

"Again, the term used is "we lived together as husband and wife" ... and now he kicked me out etc."

Just because someone says something it doesn't make it a legal reality. "We lived together as husband and wife" is an opinion, not a legal fact.

"Let's say 4 years living together and 1 year marriage. Contested divorce. Mediation fails. Judge will see and rule 5 years total."

If a judge did that then their decision would have no basis in law and could be successfully appealed.

What you are again trying to falsely claim is that a period of co-habitation without lawful marriage gives the woman rights to the other party's assets. This is completely incorrect.

Sadly, despite being told many times in this thread by many different people, you won't listen and you won't learn. You just keep banging on and on trying to convince people that living with a woman before marriage in Thailand gives her a claim to your assets. What you are saying is wholly incorrect.

Now instead of just repeating your incorrect assertion, why don't you show us which bit of the law backs up your claim?

You've been asked twice now. Put up or shut up.