Being A Katoey Is A Mental Disorder

[alexth]

I am aware that my opinion really doesn't matter, BUT, there is one great thing about homosexuality...they're not reproducing and that's a GREAT thing.

[PeaceBlondie]

In the same idea :

Pederaste regiments (sic) were elite unique in Sparta. I do not remenber if it was one regiment (unit) or several.

Pederaste regiments (several for sure) were also recored during the Punics wars in the regular cathaginian (spelling) army.

I use the word pederaste (old wording for gay) because it's the closest to the wording used to describe/name those elite units and people in those units.

RED FLAG: The word 'pederast' or its Brit spelling 'paederast' refers to a man who has sex with boys. Don't use the term to refer to adults having consensual (or forced) sex with men. Don't.

Thank you.

[taxexile]

People who believe undefined entities speak to them are in some cases also classified as having a mental disorder - of course this is not quite what you meant though.

no it isnt.

and i wasnt suggesting that undefined entities were sending me messages either , just that your body and your mind do have a habit of letting you know when circumstances are not quite right for you. and whats wrong for me could just as easily feel right for someone else , or even feel right for me in a weeks time etc.

as for acceptance in other times and in other societies , well that may be so , but burning at the stake for heretics and a flat earth were also widely believed at one time , our norms and beliefs do change.

but as for considering homosexual behaviour as a completely natural way of life , well i'm afraid i cant. i have no problem existing in society or the workplace alongside it , nor do i distance myself from homosexuals for fear of how other heterosexuals may look at me , thats not how i live.

we are all human beings here.

but i can not and probably never will understand the sexual attraction between men.

as far as the attraction of watching or "participating" in lesbian sex , i believe most of the macho men referred to in these postings would feel just as uncomfortable in the company or in the bed of true lesbians (as opposed to porn star lipstick lesbians) as they would in the company of homosexual men.

Edited November 3, 2006 by taxexile

[meemiathai]

Smoking tobacco is certainly not a natural thing...I think its a mental disorder....don't you agree.......same with enjoying drinking distilled alcohol.....to the point of disfunction....definitely not natural....another disorder...........

Chownah

[Ijustwannateach]

ijwt , using words like natural and unnatural is not stigmatizing homosexuality at all , i cannot accept that sexual acts between members of the same sex are completely normal.

for thrill seeking and experimentation yes , but as a lifestyle choice .... no.

If to be labelled as "unnatural" is not a stigma, then what is it? After all, you are not a member of the group you are calling unnatural. If someone called you an "unnatural child," would you not be offended? Why should the label be any less offensive to a gay person?

Your use of the word "choice" also demonstrates a lack of understanding and empathy. Did you "choose" to like women, or does it just so happen that when the right type of woman (and is that unnatural? Why don't you like another type of woman?) handles you the right way (and is that unnatural? Why don't you have a foot fetish, for instance, like some other straight guys?) you experience an *involuntary* reaction, which just happens to be the type of reaction that *your* society mainly endorses, and which therefore you comfortably adopted?

To bring this a little closer to home, take guys who like fat women (they do exist, plenty of them actually). According to mainstream models of sexuality, they are not "normal." Are they "unnatural?" If these words are loaded, then why are they unloaded when aimed at guys who like other guys?

old fashioned , prudish , intolerant .... i dont think so. i consider myself broad minded and i dont discriminate on a persons sexual make up , but i do consider homosexual acts between males quite unnatural indeed.

Why? Don't tell me that your intellectual perception that homosexuality doesn't appear to be a reproductively common-sense behavior leads to the kind of visceral discomfort that your posts make evident? "Hmmmmm... homosexual behavior is unnatural... and it doesn't make sense that the U.S. is still borrowing against the dollar.... and there are still some flat-Earthers out there- oh, I'm getting all queasy, let's change the subject." There's definitely something very personal going on in your feelings on the topic.

as a heterosexual male , the thought of taking a friendship with another male beyond the platonic level would be impossible because of the revulsion i would feel at becoming intimate with another male.

is my revulsion at the thought of acts between men natural or unatural , to me it is a natural feeling , that revulsion is natures way of telling me that it is wrong , it is abnormal.

Q.E.D.

This revulsion is not intellectual. Nor is the revulsion that many *culturally Western* males feel regarding even simple displays of affection between men, such as hugging or hand-holding. Note that while not homosexuals, these feelings are not shared by your straight counterparts in many Asian countries. Nor do homosexual acts seem to inspire the same sort of morbid horror in women, whether straight or gay, nor do the frequent presence of heterosexual public displays of affection seem to be much of a problem for *most* gay men.

In other words, you have been trained- through long social and cultural taboo- to have these feelings. Probably started in P.E. classes when you were young and the cultural taboo against gays was introduced to you, or earlier with your parents putting pressure on you when you were still too young to understand. Furthermore, though you prefer to label this as "discomfort," or "revulsion," what is it really? Is one revolted by things which one is not afraid of?

the fact that homosexuals do not feel that revulsion , they feel arousal , obviously means that for homosexuals that kind of behaviour is completely normal , they are following instinct.

but it is a minority instinct , and an instinct that is unnatural for the majority , who have the right surely to consider it and label it as abnormal behaviour.

there is nothing abnormal in friendships between males , but it is the sexual relations that make it abnormal ( to me , and i suspect many others too.)

Then if we are following instinct, it is not truly a choice? Instincts are natural, correct?

Lefthandedness is a minority phenomenon- and also comes genetically. Should we regard that as "unnatural" and "sinister," as we used to? Should we whack students' left hands when they "unnaturally" try to use them? People used to be afraid of it (sign of the devil, after all) and revolted by that, too.

Nature has plenty of odd ways of reproducing species which are far from the missionary position.

but unless i am mistaken , none of them involve anal sex between same sex partners.

No, in human beings and some other animals this is the case. Let me try to explain. Let's say that prevailing environmental conditions permit a tribe of humans to have 1 child for every 2 adults and raise them successfully. Let's say the tribe is large at that time- 60 adults. Let's consider two scenarios:

1st:

The 60 adults are all paired heterosexual couples: Well, they will each try to have children. So in the first year they will have 30, and probably in the next year as well- but environmental conditions don't permit them all to survive (remember that you're in a primitive state here, so no birth control). In your efforts to keep *all* of them alive (instinct) probably more than 30 of them will die.

2nd:

The 60 adults are 20 paired couples with an additional gay "helper" brother/sister each. They will produce 20 children the first year and 20 the next year. The tribe can only support 30 (because 1 child per 2 adults) so 30 children will live- more than if all the adults were try to have their own children- and only 10 must die, and many of these will probably die of natural causes anyway. Since the paired adults are genetically close to the gay brothers/sisters, those brothers and sisters also benefit genetically.

This is just one example of how reinforcing gay genes could have acted to the benefit of humans reproductively AS A GROUP. Remember, it's the species that matters, not the individuals- so it may be for the benefit of all (as another poster has already said more blatantly) that some of us do not reproduce but do not have our sexual feelings turned off (as evolutionarily that would be more difficult).

Female bee drones do not reproduce and act as slaves for a SINGLE sister all their lives. Is this "unnatural?" No, because their genetic profile is so close to that of their sister that their genes get passed on.

it is not unatural for bees, but might be considered "out of the loop" for humans

Just pointing out that your criterion for "natural" in this case is only limited to the human species, which makes it a rather useless one.

Several eminent biologists (for example, E.O. Wilson) have put forward elegant theories such as this which give "natural" explanations for homosexual genes to be reinforced in a population.

Among other species of apes, the apes with fewer homosexual tendencies are more sexually dimorphic and have seasonal "heats"- like the gorillas- and those with greater homosexual tendencies are more sexually isomorphic and do not require a "heat" for sex- like bonobo chimps and us.

perhaps you would like to elaborate on these last two points as i know nothing about it.

In other words, animals more prone to homosexuality (like us and the bonobo chimps, and dolphins, etc., etc.) usually have similar body styles and sizes for the male and the female.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

And let us pity those posters so ashamed of their feelings that they must disguise their fascination for kathoeys as an obsession with political correctness, and hope they find themselves soon.

"Steven"

In other words, everyone who feels that men pretending to be women is abnormal is really "fascinated and obsessed" with katoeys sexually and covering up their homosexual attraction to lady-boys by claiming to be heterosexual.

What a load of typical, contrived, politically correct horse doo-doo!

No, I'm suggesting that such persons are covering up their attraction (I don't call this homosexual, because I prefer men who are men, thanks) to kathoeys by going on anti-PC rants. Please don't misquote me.

[taxexile]

well thank you for your long reply ijwt.

i dont claim to be coming at this from an intellectual point of view at all.

i think that sexual attraction between men is abnormal , off centre and yes , unnatural.

i'm sorry if you feel stigmatized by that , but you will have to learn to live with it.

i dont think i am alone in having those feelings. and they dont bother me.

attraction between men and women , be they fat , be they to the womens feet or whatever , they seem to me a normal attraction. because they are between a man and a woman.

this cant be the first time you have heard of the abhorrence some , i would vouch many heterosexual males fell towards sexual relations between men .

you are right about my use of the word choice , i didnt choose to like women , it just felt right to be like that , just as it felt right for you to feel attraction for men.

i dont deny you your feelings , desires or lifestyle , or shelter and food should you come knocking on my door in trouble , but i dont see why i should have to agree with or consider normal your homosexual leanings. to me they are not.

In other words, you have been trained- through long social and cultural taboo- to have these feelings. Probably started in P.E. classes when you were young and the cultural taboo against gays was introduced to you, or earlier with your parents putting pressure on you when you were still too young to understand. Furthermore, though you prefer to label this as "discomfort," or "revulsion," what is it really? Is one revolted by things which one is not afraid of?

you are making stereotypical assumptions here that have no basis in fact.

my parents were broad minded and never spoke in disparaging terms about minority groups of any sort. i never avoided friendships with people at school , university or work because they were gay , because they liked fat women more than thin women or preferred the beatles over the rolling stones.

but i never held back with my views on it either , my views stem not from bigotry or hatred or fear , but from a visceral feeling that it is wrong according to nature. i have no wish to "cure" you or "convert" you , why on earth would anyone want to do that , to deny you your happiness.

i dont know why some people are homosexual and others are not , i have heard of the dominating mother theory , the gay gene theory etc.

at the end of the day we have to act on our feelings , you yours and me mine , and do our best to be good people in this world that seems to full of bad.

as far as the topic of this post goes , well , katoeys are not normal in my book , but that doesnt mean they should be denied any of the rights that others have in this world or treated with any less respect and kindness than so called "normal" people are , and dont ask me to define normal , i cant.

i hope he/she wins their case and gains employment and job satisfaction...... like anybody else.

[endure]

The 'Sacred Band of Thebes' was another 'gay army'.

[taxexile]

'Sacred Band of Thebes'

shouldnt that be "the thacred band of thebes"

[jdinasia]

The 'Sacred Band of Thebes' was another 'gay army'.

Would melt some people's brains if they realized that (what THEY consider as) Gays are responsible for saving Western Civilization

[dantilley]

Why is there such a big thing made of whether homosexuality is "natural" or not? Who cares, really, when we do so many unnatural things constantly, every day?

Driving a car isn't "natural", smoking cigarettes isn't "natural" and posting messages on ThaiVisa isn't "natural". Some people are stating, often with some disgust, that homosexuality is unnatural. Well, that's a fairly un-remarkable thing to say, really, so why make such a big point out of announcing the unnaturalness of this fairly widespread and common way of life? I couldn't give two hoots what activities other people want to engage in as long as it isn't harming anyone else, whether those activities are deemed to be natural or not.

I think those that denounce homosexuality for being unnatural really have some other hidden agenda, possibly without realising it in some cases.

[endure]

'Sacred Band of Thebes'

shouldnt that be "the thacred band of thebes"

Porbably not to the Spartans whose army, three times their size, they beat at Tegyra. Nor to Phillip II of Macedon who said of them "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly" when they died to the last man as the rest of their army (ie the straight part) ran away at the Battle of Chaeronea .

[VanZam]

Homosexuality is not classed as a mental disorder when speaking in terms of psychology, however I must point out that anyone willing to engage in self mutilation (gender reassignment) would be looked at very carefully with regard to their state of mind and general mental well-being.

Without a full psych report, it's very difficult to say, and no general statement can be made. Let's just say, there is a reason why psychologists such as myself are a vital part of cosmetic surgery practices. It's also interesting that they are often a key person missing in Thai hospitals.

Van.

I should add, that gender reassignment is considered a "treatment" for transexualism- so on that basis, yes it is a mental disorder.

Edited November 3, 2006 by VanZam

[endure]

I am aware that my opinion really doesn't matter, BUT, there is one great thing about homosexuality...they're not reproducing and that's a GREAT thing.

This is undoubtedly the silliest thing I've read since breakfast. If we're not reproducing where have we all come from?

[alexth]

'Sacred Band of Thebes'

shouldnt that be "the thacred band of thebes"

Porbably not to the Spartans whose army, three times their size, they beat at Tegyra. Nor to Phillip II of Macedon who said of them "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly" when they died to the last man as the rest of their army (ie the straight part) ran away at the Battle of Chaeronea .

The Sacred Band originally was formed of picked men in couples, each lover with his beloved, selected from the ranks of the existing Theban citizen-army. They were housed and trained at the city’s expense.

Smart move, removing them from the society in a military camp and getting rid of them by using them on a battle field. Pretty sure they were in the first lines having fantasies with those spearheads...

Edited November 3, 2006 by alexth

[endure]

The 'Sacred Band of Thebes' was another 'gay army'.

Would melt some people's brains if they realized that (what THEY consider as) Gays are responsible for saving Western Civilization

'We're all Iranian now'. Doesn't sound right, does it?

[PeaceBlondie]

Successful heterosexual intercourse creates 100% of all gay children. Some of us gay children manage to have six babies before switching to our natural, normal, un-reproductive behavior.

You straight folks may have created some gay children yourselves. I didn't.

[jdinasia]

The 'Sacred Band of Thebes' was another 'gay army'.

Would melt some people's brains if they realized that (what THEY consider as) Gays are responsible for saving Western Civilization

'We're all Iranian now'. Doesn't sound right, does it?

Persian ..... tyvm!

[endure]

The 'Sacred Band of Thebes' was another 'gay army'.

Would melt some people's brains if they realized that (what THEY consider as) Gays are responsible for saving Western Civilization

'We're all Iranian now'. Doesn't sound right, does it?

Persian ..... tyvm!

'Iran' is the Persian word for 'Persia'.

[chownah]

just that your body and your mind do have a habit of letting you know when circumstances are not quite right for you.

This might be true....but it also seems to sanctify all phobias...by phobia her I mean ungrounded fear....bogus fear...psychosis even. Someone who is afraid of "x" can say that thier mind has a habit of letting them know when something is not right for them. If I'm afraid to die is my mind telling me I should break a law to avoid being drafted into an army? etc.etc.

Chownah

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

Interesting topic.

As I have some gay and transgender friends from all over the world.

This is what I found on some website.

Like with most disorders, one must first ask if it really is a disorder, i.e. if it makes the person miserable and have a need for help. Milder forms of transgender personalities are sometimes best treated by just getting the person to accept him/herself as a transperson - the problem is not with the person, but with the people in the environment. Sometimes the main need is to find communities in which transgender is accepted. Many transpeople have no wish for actual reverse-role sex, and it is important to educate their friends to this fact, since many people wrongly see transgender as only a variant of homosexuality.

For me I do not have a problem with gay or lesbian people as long as they not hurt others feelings.

All of us are humans and have the right to love someone, Life is not about what you love but who you love.

In my experience it are the gay/TG and lesbian people I can have good discussions with about all aspects of life. Yes they are openminded.

Tax, I understand you when you say you do not like the shouting, I think you refer to those type of males that look like males but act and try to sound like females . we have a word for it in Dutch but I dunno that word for English. Anyway I do not bother too much.

What I do not understand is that many men have no problems with seeing two females having sex,

they even find it exciting, so why is that?

I had a funny discussion some time ago with a guy that thought he was really handsome.

Yes good body six pack and so on.

I told him that I could just go and sleep when I found the best looking girl in my bed.

Then you are not a real men he told me.

Kind regards all and please accept anyone on who they are and not what they are.

Alex

Edited November 3, 2006 by AlexLah

[Ijustwannateach]

well thank you for your long reply ijwt.

i dont claim to be coming at this from an intellectual point of view at all.

i think that sexual attraction between men is abnormal , off centre and yes , unnatural.

i'm sorry if you feel stigmatized by that , but you will have to learn to live with it.

Well, the point is, I don't. I can choose to be friends with a large number of high-quality people who don't agree with you at all, of all genders and persuasions. And I can argue the point on semi-anonymous forums like this where my frank discussion doesn't lead to trouble for me from homophobes in real life. It's true that the gay minority is the one most recently freed from the burden of being a safe whipping boy for the "sophisticated" West, but I and many others will continue to do everything we can to make sure that things stay this way and get better- and those of you who feel "uncomfortable" about it will also have to live with that, and the knowledge that more of your children see things our way than you do.

i dont think i am alone in having those feelings. and they dont bother me.

attraction between men and women , be they fat , be they to the womens feet or whatever , they seem to me a normal attraction. because they are between a man and a woman.

I don't think it's particularly important to most gays whether YOU're comfortable with these kinds of feelings.

So it's just the same ol' natural urge that tempts a man to use leather S&M implements, or stuff artificial items up various orifices (including "back there"), as long as it's a man doing it to a woman or vice versa- but if it happens between two guys, WATCH OUT! That's abby-NATURAL!!!

Reminds me of the censorship policies in Japanese porn- you can show anything being stuffed up anywhere you like, but don't show the weenie, because that would be OBSCENE!!!

this cant be the first time you have heard of the abhorrence some , i would vouch many heterosexual males fell towards sexual relations between men .

You are focussing on sexual relations without admitting what I mentioned in the last post- it's not just about sex, but also touch or any form of affection in some cases. Korean men routinely held hands- I've even seen old politicians do it when they were both being sentenced in the dock. This would arouse feelings of "abhorrence" and homophobia is most Western men, which are just as "learned" as the homophobia regarding sex itself. You also don't respond to my observations that these feelings of abhorrence seem mostly limited to certain straight, mostly Western guys- not the women of either inclination or the gay men towards any other sexual inclination. Why would our species have a built-in ("natural" ) abhorrence which only operated in a subgroup of straight Western men?

you are right about my use of the word choice , i didnt choose to like women , it just felt right to be like that , just as it felt right for you to feel attraction for men.

i dont deny you your feelings , desires or lifestyle , or shelter and food should you come knocking on my door in trouble , but i dont see why i should have to agree with or consider normal your homosexual leanings. to me they are not.

Well, thanks for that concession, anyway. I don't consider your homophobia normal or natural, either.

you are making stereotypical assumptions here that have no basis in fact.

my parents were broad minded and never spoke in disparaging terms about minority groups of any sort. i never avoided friendships with people at school , university or work because they were gay , because they liked fat women more than thin women or preferred the beatles over the rolling stones.

When I say "taught," I don't mean your parents got up with a whiteboard and wrote "gays bad." I mean that as a straight boy, you were encouraged to be and act a certain way, to have certain kinds of friends, not to show certain kinds of feelings, to avoid touching other men in ways that are rather Draconian when viewed in the context of the entire world, and that you would be socially punished if you acted in contradiction to any of these unspoken, unwritten social conventions.

This is not an assumption at all.

but i never held back with my views on it either , my views stem not from bigotry or hatred or fear , but from a visceral feeling that it is wrong according to nature. i have no wish to "cure" you or "convert" you , why on earth would anyone want to do that , to deny you your happiness.

Where did this visceral feeling come from? It's certainly not "natural," or it would prevail in straight men all over the world- and it certainly (thank goodness) does not.

i dont know why some people are homosexual and others are not , i have heard of the dominating mother theory , the gay gene theory etc.

Likely as with most complex behaviors it is a combination of genes, environment, and pure chance how certain genes get expressed. It does seem that with sexuality things get fixed after a certain point, though. That may also be a socially reinforced condition, however.

at the end of the day we have to act on our feelings , you yours and me mine , and do our best to be good people in this world that seems to full of bad.

as far as the topic of this post goes , well , katoeys are not normal in my book , but that doesnt mean they should be denied any of the rights that others have in this world or treated with any less respect and kindness than so called "normal" people are , and dont ask me to define normal , i cant.

i hope he/she wins their case and gains employment and job satisfaction...... like anybody else.

Well, I can at least agree with you here (except for the "normal" stuff). You know, you might want to think for awhile about just what it is that makes you qualified to judge what is and what is not normal. I'm hardly so sure I can make such judgments about other people, myself.

"Steven"

[alexth]

"...and the knowledge that more of your children see things our way than you do."

Is that what you're teaching? That being gay is a good thing? Well, you can call me and idiot, old fashioned, retard, whatever you want to, but if one would teach my kid that being gay is a normal (let alone good) thing, despite the fact that I am very peaceful and friendly guy, you can't imagine through what that person would have to go through, both physically and mentally...

And what's that "WE" thing? Are you some kind of organisation or something?

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Transexual to fight 'mental disorder' statement

whilst a person has every right to change whatever it is about themselves that they are not content with , and to live in a society where such people can live freely and without persecution or discrimination , it can hardly be accepted that someone who wishes to be castrated , have their penis removed and have an artificial vagina fashioned out of what is left can be conidered as having a completely ordered mental state.

it might seem ordered to them , but to the rest it is certainly disordered , and it is certainly an aberration of normal function.

I totally agree, but the politically correct amongst us will have a hissy fit when they read what you have written.

Nothing to do with Political Correctness. However you wanna say it, Shell Shocked or Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, "Not mentally ordered" or just plain nuts.... I think it's a part of nature's natural selection, since our only predators these days are ourselves and other illnesses.

[sbk]

Just curious if anyone here has ever considered the idea that Katoeys might have hormonal imbalances or that they are XXY chromosome or may be hermaphroditic but with only one set of sex organs apparent?

There could very easily be medical reasons behind a man feeling like he should be a woman and to toss it all off as "mentally imbalanced" is a very trite way to look at things and speaks to me of minds so set in their ways and views of what is right as to reject all other possibilities.

And just so you know, homosexuality and transgender are not the same thing.

[endure]

And just so you know, homosexuality and transgender are not the same thing.

You're flogging a dead horse there, sbk. It's a concept that most straight boys seem unable to understand

[taxexile]

When I say "taught," I don't mean your parents got up with a whiteboard and wrote "gays bad." I mean that as a straight boy, you were encouraged to be and act a certain way, to have certain kinds of friends, not to show certain kinds of feelings, to avoid touching other men in ways that are rather Draconian when viewed in the context of the entire world, and that you would be socially punished if you acted in contradiction to any of these unspoken, unwritten social conventions.

This is not an assumption at all.

you are assuming that i was encouraged to avoid those in minority groups because they might be a bad influence or something. no power on earth could have curtailed my inquisitiveness as a child.

and my parents never tried to.

i believe i followed my natural instincts as far as my sexuality goes.

as i said before , it is the move from platonic to sexual that i find abnormal.

close frienships between males in many countries result in public handholding , and for a westerner that seems odd at first , because we dont do it. but it is platonic.

but when men become sexually intimate with each other , a definate boundary has been crossed , and when that boundary has been crossed , it becomes , to me at least , a very abnormal state of affairs.

but unlike many others on this forum , i wish you no harm or disadvantage , i dont wish you dead or gone , you could teach my children or you could be my doctor if you were a doctor , i wish you all the happiness in life that i wish upon most people , but i do wish that you would stop trying to convince the world that gay sex between men is a normal state of affairs and that fiddling around in each others rectums is no different from having a cup of tea or a cigarette after a hard days work , when 90% of that world do think of it as on or over the edge.

[sting01]

In the same idea :

Pederaste regiments (sic) were elite unique in Sparta. I do not remenber if it was one regiment (unit) or several.

Pederaste regiments (several for sure) were also recored during the Punics wars in the regular cathaginian (spelling) army.

I use the word pederaste (old wording for gay) because it's the closest to the wording used to describe/name those elite units and people in those units.

RED FLAG: The word 'pederast' or its Brit spelling 'paederast' refers to a man who has sex with boys. Don't use the term to refer to adults having consensual (or forced) sex with men. Don't.

Thank you.

Okie, sincere apologise

http://www.wordreference.com/fren/pederaste

pédéraste vieilli nm & adj homosexual

in french

and in english

pederast, paederast, child molester

a man who has sex (usually sodomy) with a boy as the passive partner

Sorry, as this word is with greek roots, I supposed the meaning to be thevery same in french and english as usually they are. Obviously I was wrong, abviously too I never had to translate old greek or latin in english , but in french.

So I stand corrected , but the main sense was to point out military service and sexuality are not linked ( I cold have also speak about Caesar, Alexander, Constantin the Great (who is a Saint for the eastern Church and the last Emperor who became a God for the pagans .....). My diatribe was in favor or gay people, not against them, by trying to show sexuality is one thing, behavior (in military field or any other field) is somethign else.

Maybe should have say : never speak sexuality with a member or an ex member of the french foreign legion or you will be very surprise. And do not think there is one person who can have doubt on military skills or valor of the french foreign legion.

So sorry again Blondie, but even if you are right, my mistake was trully an honest mistake (due my very poor skills in english).

[sting01]

Just curious if anyone here has ever considered the idea that Katoeys might have hormonal imbalances or that they are XXY chromosome or may be hermaphroditic but with only one set of sex organs apparent?

There could very easily be medical reasons behind a man feeling like he should be a woman and to toss it all off as "mentally imbalanced" is a very trite way to look at things and speaks to me of minds so set in their ways and views of what is right as to reject all other possibilities.

And just so you know, homosexuality and transgender are not the same thing.

about hormonal imbalance, well there is no real such thing than a man whithout any femal hormones, or a female without any mal hormones.

Yes transgender is not homosexuality, but no one seems care here, but we have the usual set of abuses from gays to str8 and from str8 to gays.

Real transgender (not the men in dress who are happy to f*** the foreigner in the ST hotel of Nana) mostly have a genital problem (under sized organs), do not have also the same musculature as a boy (before puberte), and during puberte will have naturally a start of growing brest (not visible, but some tissues will appear, or glandes (not sure about the right word in english)).

One question to PEaceBlondie, as you claim you are gay, can you tell us if you have physical desire for a Kathoey? One with full functional? Can be interresting to know to clarify the discussion.

[kmart]

Successful heterosexual intercourse creates 100% of all gay children. Some of us gay children manage to have six babies before switching to our natural, normal, un-reproductive behavior.

You straight folks may have created some gay children yourselves. I didn't.

So you're a "breeder" then?

My own sexual tastes run to S&M; necrophilia; and bestiality.

Am I flogging a dead horse?