Will Terminal 21 coming to Pattaya impact on property prices?

[dragonaus]

Of course Terminal 21 will improve property prices in Naklua/North Pattaya even Pattaya in general, it might not be overnight but will definitely add to Pattaya being a prime destination in Thailand for tourists and eventually families moving to Pattaya from Bangkok on the back of the fast rail.

When the Bangkok companies moved in to Pattaya in a big way such as Central Festival, Raimon Land with Northshore and then Northpoint etc prices moved up big time. Land prices have increased considerably in the last 5 years.

My condo in Naklua has risen 75% in the last 7 years. The prices in the block of 103 units range from THB19m to THB80m, only 3 for sale/sold in the last 3 years.

Wether you buy or rent is completely up to you and your finance, but for some people to say only spend what you can afford to lose is complete hogwash, do your research first and enjoy.

[Wasa]

Lived there in Northpoint for many years and loved it. Nice 3br unit, beachfront and was give or take 100,000 baht/month.

Buying a unit there would have been 25m and up I think. I highly doubt they went down in price over the years.

Overall I am glad I didn't buy as the building suddenly felt like the 'russian embassy' and we were somewhat happy to move out.

The Russians are mostly gone now and prices have dropped a little I think you will find. I have a 3 bed 132 sqm. on a high floor you can have for 21.9 million with a long term tenant paying 90k a month.

I think that sort of money goes beyond what I can afford to put at risk in one location, especially in Thailand. If we are to follow the mantra on TV of only buying to a price point that you can afford to lose then a figure much lower than that would be the limit of my exposure.

I need to fund my Aussie property as well and property in Australia is not cheap.

[CousinEddie]

Well done mate, so you're a renter then....i got nothing against renters, but why do you lot always say buyers are stupid? Its always "you must be mad to buy in thailand", why? If thats what people want to do, its up to them. Not everyone has been 'burnt' by ex-gf's, you know.

The trick is, not to put any amount of money into thailand that you can't afford to lose...true?

Maybe you can't afford to lose a few mill, huh?

Its really up to the individual, buy or not buy, but don't say the other one is stupid...khao jai?

I would only consider purchasing if I intended to live in the property at least 10 years and don't mind watching the management neglect maintenance and rob the place or have neighbors destroy your peace and quiet...like some jerk with a home entertainment system or even worse,......... an all night karaoke bar owned by police, opens across the street or a rooster farm or dog kennel or metal crushing business or some gigantic flashing billboard.........

You know how frustrating it can be to call the City Hall Hotline 100 times and get no results?

[ageless1]

I decided long ago to keep my property investments overseas and rent here. I may be able to survive a capital loss financially if I had a Thai home but I'd rather not risk it at all. My overseas property is income earning so it costs me nothing and it has appreciated in value. With so much unknown long term in Thailand I'm more interested in being free to come and go risk free.

[Ghostnigel]

Well done mate, so you're a renter then....i got nothing against renters, but why do you lot always say buyers are stupid? Its always "you must be mad to buy in thailand", why? If thats what people want to do, its up to them. Not everyone has been 'burnt' by ex-gf's, you know.

The trick is, not to put any amount of money into thailand that you can't afford to lose...true?

Maybe you can't afford to lose a few mill, huh?

Its really up to the individual, buy or not buy, but don't say the other one is stupid...khao jai?

I would only consider purchasing if I intended to live in the property at least 10 years and don't mind watching the management neglect maintenance and rob the place or have neighbors destroy your peace and quiet...like some jerk with a home entertainment system or even worse,......... an all night karaoke bar owned by police, opens across the street or a rooster farm or dog kennel or metal crushing business or some gigantic flashing billboard.........

You know how frustrating it can be to call the City Hall Hotline 100 times and get no results?

Quite honestly, if you do a lot of home-work checking around, and look at places in the area you want, that are nice for you, and not for the lower class type of people, it usually works out ok. Look on the driveways, pick-ups with huge speakers? or a new style car, that says 'I am not a noisy neighbor'. I have never just bought a house because i like it, it has to be checked out for all circumstances, then your chances of buying a dud is greatly reduced, it hasn't failed me yet.

If i go look at a moo baan, i don't drive in there with blinkers on, i take everything in, a lot of soi-dogs in a new estate? start engine, and retreat...lol. My moo baan, to me is very good, great neighbors, only 1or 2 soi dogs, and even they aren't near my house. It's 7-8 years old now, no security on the gate, but i have cameras, and electric gates, and in a soi that is close to the main gate. All this because i done my homework, (no pun intended).

[Ghostnigel]

Well if you are married and have kids then buying makes much more sense. When I go 6 feet under my wife will inherit the house.

Exactly, if you have a lovely wife, and kids as you have, there's nothing better than to have your own home, that YOU can maintain, and do whatever you feel you need to do to make it nice. Instead of having to call the owner to come fix the aircon, or fix the roof.....etc.

[PomRakBKK]

Lived there in Northpoint for many years and loved it. Nice 3br unit, beachfront and was give or take 100,000 baht/month.

Buying a unit there would have been 25m and up I think. I highly doubt they went down in price over the years.

Overall I am glad I didn't buy as the building suddenly felt like the 'russian embassy' and we were somewhat happy to move out.

The Russians are mostly gone now and prices have dropped a little I think you will find. I have a 3 bed 132 sqm. on a high floor you can have for 21.9 million with a long term tenant paying 90k a month.

Doesn't happen to be on the 36th or 38th floor?

[Hal65]

A big new mall is almost the definition of gentrification. This is not a small sign but a big one of increasing area desirability and affluence. Think about the extensive market planning done by the deep pocketed developers on why it was a good idea to finally enter the market. A new mall does not have the advantage of a "greater fool" exit strategy like a condo building.

I can not think of anything other than an airport that would be a more obvious sign of increasing values to come. The only question is when; this will be answered in part of macro-economic forces.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Hal65

[LennyW]

A big new mall is almost the definition of gentrification. This is not a small sign but a big one of increasing area desirability and affluence. I can not think of anything other than an airport that would be a more obvious sign.

Yeah, lets all move to an area that will be permanently gridlocked!!

[Hal65]

A big new mall is almost the definition of gentrification. This is not a small sign but a big one of increasing area desirability and affluence. I can not think of anything other than an airport that would be a more obvious sign.

Yeah, lets all move to an area that will be permanently gridlocked!!

You mean like downtown Manhattan, Hong Kong, Shanghai, London, etc? Are we speaking about negative externalities, or it this a thread about property values?

[LennyW]

A big new mall is almost the definition of gentrification. This is not a small sign but a big one of increasing area desirability and affluence. I can not think of anything other than an airport that would be a more obvious sign.

Yeah, lets all move to an area that will be permanently gridlocked!!

You mean like downtown Manhattan, Hong Kong, Shanghai, London, etc? Are we speaking about negative externalities, or it this a thread about property values?

No , we are talking about Thailand in a town where the infrastructure is already way overloaded.

[Hal65]

Your misjudgment is that congestion is the major driver of property values. All the data is against you on this one.

I'll side against you and with the mall site planners; I have a feeling they're a bit sharper in this domain.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Hal65

[CousinEddie]

A big new mall is almost the definition of gentrification. This is not a small sign but a big one of increasing area desirability and affluence. I can not think of anything other than an airport that would be a more obvious sign.

Yeah, lets all move to an area that will be permanently gridlocked!!

It's gridlocked because people like the place.

The most valuable real estate in the world is often in the gridlocked areas.

The adjacent neighborhood to this new mall will experience excellent appreciation.

[LennyW]

Your misjudgment is that congestion is the major driver of property values. All the data is against you on this one.

I'll side against you and with the mall site planners; I have a feeling they're a bit sharper in this domain.

A big new mall is almost the definition of gentrification. This is not a small sign but a big one of increasing area desirability and affluence. I can not think of anything other than an airport that would be a more obvious sign.

Yeah, lets all move to an area that will be permanently gridlocked!!

It's gridlocked because people like the place.

The most valuable real estate in the world is often in the gridlocked areas.

The adjacent neighborhood to this new mall will experience excellent appreciation.

The property pimps are up early today!!

This is nothing more than typical bad planning in Pattaya, look at the likes of Rayong, they have the sense to put Big C, Cenral, Makro etc. on the side of the 36 Motorway on the fringes of town, easily accessible for everyone without the pain of constant gridlock.

But keep on believing guys, i certainly would not want to live in an area where travelling gave me constant grief.

[Hal65]

The property pimps are up early today!!

This is nothing more than typical bad planning in Pattaya, look at the likes of Rayong, they have the sense to put Big C, Cenral, Makro etc. on the side of the 36 Motorway on the fringes of town, easily accessible for everyone without the pain of constant gridlock.

But keep on believing guys, i certainly would not want to live in an area where travelling gave me constant grief.

Well you're speaking about convenience. I agree, living/traveling in the outskirts (or any low traffic area) is convenient. This is not a good argument for high property values.

[tomwct]

Increases limited parking. Prices will go down!

[CousinEddie]

Increases limited parking. Prices will go down!

Limit parking and traffic will go down. Property prices, up.

[LennyW]

The property pimps are up early today!!

This is nothing more than typical bad planning in Pattaya, look at the likes of Rayong, they have the sense to put Big C, Cenral, Makro etc. on the side of the 36 Motorway on the fringes of town, easily accessible for everyone without the pain of constant gridlock.

But keep on believing guys, i certainly would not want to live in an area where travelling gave me constant grief.

Well you're speaking about convenience. I agree, living/traveling in the outskirts (or any low traffic area) is convenient. This is not a good argument for high property values.

You are giving examples like Manhattan, Hong Kong, Shanghai, London, you cannot possibly see Pattaya in the same light, big difference these cities have is infrastructure...Subways, Street cars, Mass transit systems which are distinctly lacking here in case you had not noticed.

The only reason Pattaya gets so packed with buildings/malls etc, is because developers have the ability to buy their permissions which in a normally administered city would not be allowed, anybody that knows anything about Pattaya already knows this.

But each to their own, certainly not my ideal choice of location to live.

[LennyW]

Increases limited parking. Prices will go down!

Limit parking and traffic will go down. Property prices, up.

Have you ever been in Pattaya? no matter how little parking available here the masses just drive around and around and around, simple logic does not apply here!

[Hal65]

The property pimps are up early today!!

This is nothing more than typical bad planning in Pattaya, look at the likes of Rayong, they have the sense to put Big C, Cenral, Makro etc. on the side of the 36 Motorway on the fringes of town, easily accessible for everyone without the pain of constant gridlock.

But keep on believing guys, i certainly would not want to live in an area where travelling gave me constant grief.

Well you're speaking about convenience. I agree, living/traveling in the outskirts (or any low traffic area) is convenient. This is not a good argument for high property values.

You are giving examples like Manhattan, Hong Kong, Shanghai, London, you cannot possibly see Pattaya in the same light, big difference these cities have is infrastructure...Subways, Street cars, Mass transit systems which are distinctly lacking here in case you had not noticed.

The only reason Pattaya gets so packed with buildings/malls etc, is because developers have the ability to buy their permissions which in a normally administered city would not be allowed, anybody that knows anything about Pattaya already knows this.

But each to their own, certainly not my ideal choice of location to live.

Well you don't get the high end infrastructure first (usually). The property prices have to climb so high that the pain and expense of adding high density necessities becomes reasonable. There is often a gap between the increase in density and the infrastructure coming online.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Hal65

[LennyW]

The property pimps are up early today!!

This is nothing more than typical bad planning in Pattaya, look at the likes of Rayong, they have the sense to put Big C, Cenral, Makro etc. on the side of the 36 Motorway on the fringes of town, easily accessible for everyone without the pain of constant gridlock.

But keep on believing guys, i certainly would not want to live in an area where travelling gave me constant grief.

Well you're speaking about convenience. I agree, living/traveling in the outskirts (or any low traffic area) is convenient. This is not a good argument for high property values.

You are giving examples like Manhattan, Hong Kong, Shanghai, London, you cannot possibly see Pattaya in the same light, big difference these cities have is infrastructure...Subways, Street cars, Mass transit systems which are distinctly lacking here in case you had not noticed.

The only reason Pattaya gets so packed with buildings/malls etc, is because developers have the ability to buy their permissions which in a normally administered city would not be allowed, anybody that knows anything about Pattaya already knows this.

But each to their own, certainly not my ideal choice of location to live.

Well you don't get the high end infrastructure first (usually). The property prices have to climb so high that the pain and expense of adding high density necessities becomes reasonable. There is often a gap between the increase in density and the infrastructure coming online.

I admire your enthusiasm, albeit misplaced, but property prices in Pattaya are not driven by glitzy malls and the like, it is driven by supply and demand, currently the trend in both sales and prices is downward due to a massive oversupply and limited uptake.

Im off to Robinsons Rayong, have a nice day.

[tomwct]

Increases limited parking. Prices will go down!

Limit parking and traffic will go down. Property prices, up.

Are you kidding? This is Thailand. More cars, less parking, more congestion, and you have lower prices!

[1BADDAT]

Of course Terminal 21 will improve property prices in Naklua/North Pattaya even Pattaya in general, it might not be overnight but will definitely add to Pattaya being a prime destination in Thailand for tourists and eventually families moving to Pattaya from Bangkok on the back of the fast rail.

When the Bangkok companies moved in to Pattaya in a big way such as Central Festival, Raimon Land with Northshore and then Northpoint etc prices moved up big time. Land prices have increased considerably in the last 5 years.

My condo in Naklua has risen 75% in the last 7 years. The prices in the block of 103 units range from THB19m to THB80m, only 3 for sale/sold in the last 3 years.

Wether you buy or rent is completely up to you and your finance, but for some people to say only spend what you can afford to lose is complete hogwash, do your research first and enjoy.

My condo in Naklua has risen 75% in the last 7 years. The prices in the block of 103 units range from THB19m to THB80m, only 3 for sale/sold in the last 3 years.

How could you possibly know what your property is actually worth if only 3 have sold in the last 3 years? The only way you know what it is worth is to actually sell it since there are no direct comps to compare to.

[1BADDAT]

To answer the OP's question. Terminal 21 will probably have little effect on the price of condo's in Naklua. The only thing that it will do really is increase the traffic around that general area which will make things worse. It is unlikely that Pattaya will manage the development and roads to make the overall area nicer.

[Broken Record]

Wong Amat is a good area, ( Though not cheap ) the established condo's do well and I can see an uptrend in prices when the new Mall gets underway.

[newnative]

Here are a couple of truths for you. #1. 'Nobody's there, so nobody wants to be there.' If you were starting a business, would you rent a shop in an empty shopping center with no other open shops? Probably not. Since nobody is there, you don't want to be there, either. # 2. 'Everybody's there, so everybody wants to be there.' Example: Central Festival. Had a big laugh over the argument as to whether tight parking will raise or lower property values. The parking is tight because of #2 above. Good for property values--especially if you can walk to the desirable places and leave the car at home. LennyW is right about one thing, it's all about supply and demand and in some areas the supply of condos is more than the demand for them. But, with central Pattaya and the area around Terminal 21, high-rise condo supply is low and demand is high--especially for newer condos with seaviews and good amenities. It started with Festival but each new big project: Harbor Mall, The Bay, Terminal 21, and Asiatique Prime will each make a stronger case for center city Pattaya being the place everyone wants to be.

[dragonaus]

Of course Terminal 21 will improve property prices in Naklua/North Pattaya even Pattaya in general, it might not be overnight but will definitely add to Pattaya being a prime destination in Thailand for tourists and eventually families moving to Pattaya from Bangkok on the back of the fast rail.

When the Bangkok companies moved in to Pattaya in a big way such as Central Festival, Raimon Land with Northshore and then Northpoint etc prices moved up big time. Land prices have increased considerably in the last 5 years.

My condo in Naklua has risen 75% in the last 7 years. The prices in the block of 103 units range from THB19m to THB80m, only 3 for sale/sold in the last 3 years.

Wether you buy or rent is completely up to you and your finance, but for some people to say only spend what you can afford to lose is complete hogwash, do your research first and enjoy.

My condo in Naklua has risen 75% in the last 7 years. The prices in the block of 103 units range from THB19m to THB80m, only 3 for sale/sold in the last 3 years.

How could you possibly know what your property is actually worth if only 3 have sold in the last 3 years? The only way you know what it is worth is to actually sell it since there are no direct comps to compare to.

We have 3 types of condo in our block, 167 sqm - 256 sqm - 334 sqm and 1 x Penthouse 1067sqm. In the last 3 years there have been 3 sales from foreigner owned only, and 2 of them were my size on my side of the building. so when working out my buy price 7 years ago and their sale price last year, the difference was approx. 70% increase. Now add to this I am a few floors higher and higher quality fit out, I came up with 75%,

Yes, there have been a glut of shoebox condos built. Since the Russian tourists have declined, many developers have put on hold new builds awaiting the Chinese or Indians to take up the slack. There is a real shortage of 3 bedroom new condos, because most of the new condo developments were aiming at the market in front of them, the Russian tourist and Bangkok investor/weekender.

People here saying traffic congestion around Terminal 21 are assuming many things. One thing for sure is Pattaya is moving forward and property prices will continue to climb over time.

[Wasa]

Here are a couple of truths for you. #1. 'Nobody's there, so nobody wants to be there.' If you were starting a business, would you rent a shop in an empty shopping center with no other open shops? Probably not. Since nobody is there, you don't want to be there, either. # 2. 'Everybody's there, so everybody wants to be there.' Example: Central Festival. Had a big laugh over the argument as to whether tight parking will raise or lower property values. The parking is tight because of #2 above. Good for property values--especially if you can walk to the desirable places and leave the car at home. LennyW is right about one thing, it's all about supply and demand and in some areas the supply of condos is more than the demand for them. But, with central Pattaya and the area around Terminal 21, high-rise condo supply is low and demand is high--especially for newer condos with seaviews and good amenities. It started with Festival but each new big project: Harbor Mall, The Bay, Terminal 21, and Asiatique Prime will each make a stronger case for center city Pattaya being the place everyone wants to be.

Good points actually.

If you head north from the Terminal 21 site there is very little available in the way of quality condos. You pretty much have to get down into Soi 18 before there are the likes of VT6, SkyBeach, Park Beach, Northpoint etc.

Up Pattaya Naklua Rd there is very little, except until you get up past the Coffee Club, but they're a bit off the waterfront and not really decent quality. If you head east along Pattaya Nua there is not much really either. They are building those new Posh condos down near the bus station but they are shoeboxes and aimed more at the Thai market. There are a couple of new condo buildings south of Terminal 21 site but they are shoeboxes as well.

Based on this and the fact that you could walk to the new mall, I think Pattaya North and Naklua should do ok. They at least will hold their prices, not collapse as some have suggested here.

[Just Curious]

Lived there in Northpoint for many years and loved it. Nice 3br unit, beachfront and was give or take 100,000 baht/month.

Buying a unit there would have been 25m and up I think. I highly doubt they went down in price over the years.

Overall I am glad I didn't buy as the building suddenly felt like the 'russian embassy' and we were somewhat happy to move out.

The Russians are mostly gone now and prices have dropped a little I think you will find. I have a 3 bed 132 sqm. on a high floor you can have for 21.9 million with a long term tenant paying 90k a month.

Doesn't happen to be on the 36th or 38th floor?

No, it's not on either of those floors.

[loppylugs1]

Of course Terminal 21 will improve property prices in Naklua/North Pattaya even Pattaya in general, it might not be overnight but will definitely add to Pattaya being a prime destination in Thailand for tourists and eventually families moving to Pattaya from Bangkok on the back of the fast rail.

When the Bangkok companies moved in to Pattaya in a big way such as Central Festival, Raimon Land with Northshore and then Northpoint etc prices moved up big time. Land prices have increased considerably in the last 5 years.

My condo in Naklua has risen 75% in the last 7 years. The prices in the block of 103 units range from THB19m to THB80m, only 3 for sale/sold in the last 3 years.

Wether you buy or rent is completely up to you and your finance, but for some people to say only spend what you can afford to lose is complete hogwash, do your research first and enjoy.

My condo in Naklua has risen 75% in the last 7 years. The prices in the block of 103 units range from THB19m to THB80m, only 3 for sale/sold in the last 3 years.

How could you possibly know what your property is actually worth if only 3 have sold in the last 3 years? The only way you know what it is worth is to actually sell it since there are no direct comps to compare to.

We have 3 types of condo in our block, 167 sqm - 256 sqm - 334 sqm and 1 x Penthouse 1067sqm. In the last 3 years there have been 3 sales from foreigner owned only, and 2 of them were my size on my side of the building. so when working out my buy price 7 years ago and their sale price last year, the difference was approx. 70% increase. Now add to this I am a few floors higher and higher quality fit out, I came up with 75%,

Yes, there have been a glut of shoebox condos built. Since the Russian tourists have declined, many developers have put on hold new builds awaiting the Chinese or Indians to take up the slack. There is a real shortage of 3 bedroom new condos, because most of the new condo developments were aiming at the market in front of them, the Russian tourist and Bangkok investor/weekender.

People here saying traffic congestion around Terminal 21 are assuming many things. One thing for sure is Pattaya is moving forward and property prices will continue to climb over time.

Yes thought the Chinese/Indians would be taking up the slack,but who in their right mind would want to share anything with the like