FLR possible when income requirement not met?

[GarryUK]

Married for nearly 3 years, have a daughter just over 2 years old, wife and daughter have been in the UK for nearly 2 years. Around Christmas we'll need to apply for FLR but I've been having some problems on the job front. Lost my job last May, payout kept me going but it took until December for me to find work again so basically I spent everything. Then at Easter I lost that job too and I've been out of work since. We're considering the wife getting a part time job locally which'll help financially even if she only pays for childcare and keeps anything left over, if nothing else it'll help with her boredom and integrate her into the UK better, but it won't meet the financial requirements for the visa.

So... Budha help us if I'm not working by Christmas, but how's that going to affect the FLR application?

[lostinisaan]

Try to think positive and you'll find a job. Never give up. Best of luck for you guys !!!

[GarryUK]

Just been reading through Appendix_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement_August_2015 and it looks like you have to meet the income requirements for every visa stage, so yes I've just got to hope I can sort out the job front.

But a question I meant to add in the original post. Let's say I'm not working, the visa expires and the wife returns to Thailand. What happens when I then get a job, do we have to start from scratch? Or assuming she's only been back in Thailand for let's say one month, can she then return to England once I meet the financial requirement and carry on from there?

[Trevor1809]

Given the life changing implications of not getting a visa you need to start considering jobs outside of year area and stay away during the week. Hard I know but beats a visa refusal. You could consider working in Europe and bypassing the FLR altogether before the in vote and the loop hole is closed.

[brewsterbudgen]

Can you meet the savings requirement?

[GarryUK]

Can you meet the savings requirement?

No I've emptied everything. My mum has money from when hers died so she won't see me lose anything like the house or car, but if she transfers any of it to me to meet the savings requirements for the visa then my benefits will stop. I know £70 a week is nothing, but it's still £70 a week to go on food.

[7by7]

Remember that if your wife is working then for both FLR and ILR her income can be added to yours to meet the requirement.

I'm afraid that if she does have to return to Thailand because you cannot meet the requirement then if she is out of the UK when her current visa expires she will have to start the whole process all over again.

[GarryUK]

Remember that if your wife is working then for both FLR and ILR her income can be added to yours to meet the requirement.

I'm afraid that if she does have to return to Thailand because you cannot meet the requirement then if she is out of the UK when her current visa expires she will have to start the whole process all over again.

As I feared. Okay, two application forms for Domino's Pizza it is then if I can't land something in the meantime

[Richard W]

It appears that you and your wife have a British citizen child together. If so, and if the only problem is in meeting the financial requirement, I believe that if you apply for FLR(M) and do not meet the financial requirement, you will be automatically transferred from the 5-year route to the 10-year route to settlement.

[brewsterbudgen]

It appears that you and your wife have a British citizen child together. If so, and if the only problem is in meeting the financial requirement, I believe that if you apply for FLR(M) and do not meet the financial requirement, you will be automatically transferred from the 5-year route to the 10-year route to settlement.

That sounds encouraging. Can anyone confirm this and give details?

[theoldgit]

I'm not sure that it's automatic, though it might be, this route, as I understand it, is meant to cover those who wish to apply using the Human Rights provision of a family life.

Family_Life_10-year_routes_guidance_August_2015.pdf

[Richard W]

It appears that you and your wife have a British citizen child together. If so, and if the only problem is in meeting the financial requirement, I believe that if you apply for FLR(M) and do not meet the financial requirement, you will be automatically transferred from the 5-year route to the 10-year route to settlement.

That sounds encouraging. Can anyone confirm this and give details?

I'm not sure that it's automatic, though it might be, this route, as I understand it, is meant to cover those who wish to apply using the Human Rights provision of a family life.

The nasty bit is in Section 11.2.3 of Theoldgit's reference. Quoted paragraphs one (emphasis mine) is just what one wants, and then the unquantified sting comes in paragraph 3:

Where a decision to refuse the application would require a parent or primary carer to return to a country outside the EU, the case must always be assessed on the basis that it would be unreasonable to expect a British Citizen child to leave the EU with that parent or primary carer.

In such cases it will usually be appropriate to grant leave to the parent or primary carer, to enable them to remain in the UK with the child, provided that there is satisfactory evidence of a genuine and subsisting parental relationship.

It may, however, be appropriate to refuse to grant leave where the conduct of the parent or primary carer gives rise to considerations of such weight as to justify separation, if the child could otherwise stay with another parent or alternative primary carer in the UK or in the EU.

The circumstances envisaged could cover amongst others:

• criminality falling below the thresholds set out in paragraph 398 of the Immigration Rules;
• a very poor immigration history, such as where the person has repeatedly and deliberately breached the Immigration Rules

Conceivably someone like Mrs BrewsterBudgen could be excluded for doing repeated visa runs to Thailand, though I think that would be excessive.

I can't preclude them playing hardball with the requirement to intend to live in the UK permanently - an expressed desire to retire to Thailand could cause havoc.

[Rob180]

HI, I'm sorry to hear about your difficulty. It's an absolute disgrace and an outrage that a British Citizen is subjected to this horrendous and discriminatory rule about minimum income when they are MARRIED and even more so if they have a child together born in the UK. I think the Govt may find it very hard to refuse FLR in such circumstances unless your wife had a poor immigration history or something. I think you would be best contacting an Immigration Consultant as soon as possible, which is approved by the UK Govt to provide immigration advice, such as Thai Visa Express. I think they have an office in England as well as Thailand.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Rob180

[Richard W]

HI, I'm sorry to hear about your difficulty. It's an absolute disgrace and an outrage that a British Citizen is subjected to this horrendous and discriminatory rule about minimum income when they are MARRIED and even more so if they have a child together born in the UK.

Fortunately for the OP (and for BrewsterBudgen's disaster planning, if that is what his interest is), nothing seems to hinge on whether the British citizen child was born in the UK.

[brewsterbudgen]

HI, I'm sorry to hear about your difficulty. It's an absolute disgrace and an outrage that a British Citizen is subjected to this horrendous and discriminatory rule about minimum income when they are MARRIED and even more so if they have a child together born in the UK.

Fortunately for the OP (and for BrewsterBudgen's disaster planning, if that is what his interest is), nothing seems to hinge on whether the British citizen child was born in the UK.

Thanks. It's interesting reading. You're right, I'm thinking of 'worst case' scenarios. I should be able to meet the savings requirement for the initial visa and by the time FLR comes along, I would hope to be earning enough.

In the worst case that I couldn't meet the requirement for FLR, the only place my wife could be sent back to would be Laos, where she is a criminal, having had a child with a foreigner and not being married under Lao law. Neither my son or myself can stay more than 30 days in Laos, and I would also be subject to sanction under Lao law. So if we can't live together as a family in the UK or Laos, we can't live together.

Edited May 25, 2016 by brewsterbudgen

[KNJ]

1) Suggest you seek legal advice, as with your situation you may be able to claim asylum, quoting the arrest possibility in Laos.

2) You can combine, her and your income over the previous 12 months, and also add in any savings you have. Remember it is gross salaries that count so any job you and her take are both gross.

If application date is December your 12 months will have started the last month of 2015 ( you need to know exact date )

3) assuming we remain in UK then seeking a job in Europe and remaining 6 months, may, if it is still law, which it may be not, entitle you to enter via the 'Singh' route, but do not hold your breath on this one, the government wants to stop it, and remaining in UK is not certain. Definetly worth to consider Ireland as language will be no problem

[GarryUK]

I'm not sure that it's automatic, though it might be, this route, as I understand it, is meant to cover those who wish to apply using the Human Rights provision of a family life.

Family_Life_10-year_routes_guidance_August_2015.pdf

How annoying, everything I typed in my response was replaced with a copy of the document OldGit posted so I'm having to edit my post and respond again

In short the wife is of good character and neither of us have criminal records or any immigration discrepancies so this is a positive contribution in answer to the original question posed, thanks.

Edited May 25, 2016 by GarryUK

[Richard W]

So if we can't live together as a family in the UK or Laos, we can't live together.

There's always the possibility of the EEA (less Liechtenstein), depending on your skills. I'm not even sure that UKVI would consider requiring a spouse to reside illegally in his spouse's country as unreasonable.

1) Suggest you seek legal advice, as with your situation you may be able to claim asylum, quoting the arrest possibility in Laos.

You're confusing GarryUK's highly possible problem with BrewsterBudgen's worst case scenario.

[bobrussell]

It will be interesting (and nerve-wracking) to see how these situations will be handled.

FLR under appendix FM where the financial requirements cannot be met but there are (for example) British children where it would be unreasonable to expect the children to leave the UK. Common-sense suggests that this should apply to pretty much everyone with children in the UK, in school and often knowing nothing else. Downside is the 10 year wait for ILR and the possibilities of ongoing changes in legislation. Add the NHS surcharge and the cost makes this undesirable to say the least!

FLR (FP) is even more complicated and is for those not able to apply as partners (eg; divorced non-EU parents). Here eligibility depends on showing grounds based on family and/or private life.

As there is a large degree of discretion to granting or rejecting both categories I would suggest specialist advice be sought with these applications!

As I understand it, they can be converted back to FLR (M) if the person becomes eligible!

Much better to do anything you can to avoid having to apply under these categories!

Absolute worst case scenario is the asylum route!!