Dory Fish (Pangas catfish)

[Mekong Bob]

Dory fish from Vietnam is very popular in Thailand.

Be sure to ask for it by name in your favorite Chiang Mai restaurants.

Pen-raised fish for export are fed antibiotics and treated with hormones and fungicides that are banned for use in the US commercial fish industry. In Vietnam, fish are injected with hormones that are made in China from the dehydrated urine of pregnant women. Reportedly, fish prepared and packaged for market are often cleaned with ethylene glycol, a toxic chemical used in antifreezes. Fish exported from Vietnam to the U.S. are marketed under the names of tra, swai, basa, pangas, River Cobbler, White Catfish, Whitefish, and Gray Sole. These fish are typically priced as much as 64% below similar uncontaminated fish that are pond-grown in the US or other similar fish found in U.S. markets.

The responsibility for inspecting imported seafood and pen-raised fish used to be that of the Food and Drug Administration; however, the 2008 farm bill transferred that responsibility to the Department of Agriculture (USDA). Before, only 2 percent of imported seafood was inspected annually. However after the transfer, U.S. trade representatives have prevented such inspections from taking place for fear of igniting a trade dispute. Due to extreme political pressure regarding imports from Vietnam resulting from the pending the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade proposal, it is unlikely that any serious testing is taking place.

Fish from these polluted rivers in Vietnam are teeming with high levels of poisons and bacteria. Untreated sewage discharge and other pollutants settle on the bottoms of rivers and ponds and provide most of the nutrients for the basa and tra fish, which are bottom-feeders (hence the nickname “sewer catfish”).

And if you look for the “A Product of Vietnam” label when buying fish, you soon won’t find it. The USDA recently announced that labeling for place of origin on packaging will soon no longer be required.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/05/obamas_visit_to_vietnam_comes_as_mass_demonstrations_protest_pollution_and_massive_fish_kills_.html#ixzz49dIcetB6
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[cmsally]

Presumably that is the stuff they sell very cheaply in Makro in packets. Tastes revolting.

[Rotweiler]

The pangasius hypophthalmus is much like sea bass filet, both in taste and consistency. Just 1/10th the price. Breaded and fried, it's great with a yellow curry.

Wonderful.

[CMKiwi]

Hmmmm yes it needs a strong flavour added or else all you taste is mud. Can't say I like this fish at all.

Makro did sell a NZ hoki fillet about a year ago. Sadly I've not seen any since.

[Mekong Bob]

hmm. tastes like chicken?

[midas]

Stir-Fried Crispy Catfish with Spicy Red Curry Paste (ปลาดุกทอดกรอบผัดเผ็ด ; bplaa dook thaawt graawp phat phet)................yummy !

Edited May 25, 2016 by midas

[Chicog]

There is not a supermarket in the Gulf that doesn't have this generic "white fish" in the freezer.

Although to be honest if one of the side effects is men growing tits and women growing facial hair, it isn't really going to make much difference.

[petermik]

There is not a supermarket in the Gulf that doesn't have this generic "white fish" in the freezer.

Although to be honest if one of the side effects is men growing tits and women growing facial hair, it isn't really going to make much difference.

So that is why my "didgery doo" has increased considerably since moving here,well thank you Dory fish...........who would have thought it

[ukrules]

Vietnam really cleaned up their act, the information in the original post is way out of date.

Pangasius Dory wherever it comes from can make a very tasty and cheap dish. Not everyone eats imported Cod / Alaskan Salmon.

[NickJ]

I watched a show on tv about this. The pens are filthy these fish are raised in. One half of the show also detailed the salamon raised in the fjords of Norway..just as bad.

[Mekong Bob]

ukules,

can we have some documentation on this clean up?

maybe a recent report from Thai Ministry of Health?

Thanks!

[avidflyer]

Mekong Bob, may we have some verifiable documentation regarding the degree of pollution and contamination associated with pangasius fish?

I wonder how much of this propaganda is sponsored by American fish farmers... A lot I reckon.

Health issues aside, the pangasius fish is the tastiest mild white fish available commercially. And the cheapest.

[Konini]

We used to have it at least once a week and someone posted some youtube video's on here a couple of years ago and I've avoided it since - I did my own research after watching the video's. Perhaps it has been cleaned up now, it would be interesting to find out. I've been buying snapper or grouper from either Tesco or Makro since then but it's hard to get big pieces of either. The cod steaks from Big C extra are very nice (when they're marked down to half price, and even then still 150 baht each. I know that's cheaper than they are in England, but I get baht fever sometimes when I'm in the supermarket), but it would be nice if they really have cleaned up their act.

Chicog is right though - if all it amounts to is men with boobs and women with hair then it's nothing that the chicken being served up all over the world isn't already doing. I used to think that was just an Australian problem when we lived there, but I read something in one of the Malaysian newspapers years ago saying that doctors were concerned about the number of teenage boys developing breasts just as quickly or quicker than the teenage girls.

Anyway, don't they still use DDT here? No amount of washing and scrubbing is going to get that out of our veggies.

[Aussie69]

Its funny that us Westerns have an automatic superior believe that all our meat, poultry, fish, vegetables and water supplies unquestionably come from pure clean fresh hygienic sources because of our strict laws, oversight, independent audits, etc. The capitilst system in its quest for forever improving margins & profits is capable of much worse things in then a dirty Vietnamese fish farm, and far greater lies & corruption - its just better hidden.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Aussie69

[xylophone]

Yes, the "west" also has its problems with farmed fish, and the fact that around 80% of antibiotics, antifungals etc produced in the USA are fed to livestock, which we eat, is frightening......quote Wiki: "In 2011, a total of 13.6 million kilograms of antimicrobials were sold for use in food-producing animals in the United States,^[26] which represents 80% of all antibiotics sold in the United States.^[27] Of the antibiotics given to animals, 72 percent are "medically-important" drugs that are also used in humans".

And why...........because money is the driver (fatter/bigger animals, faster growing, better food conversion etc). It's no wonder there is a huge increase in antibiotic resistant bacteria, which is seen in Thailand because of similar practices AND indiscriminate use of antibiotics, as they can be bought over the counter and are dished out like sweets by many doctors..

[Rotweiler]

My daughter, when visiting here, refused to eat in small, street-side restaurants. Surely, get sick there, she would say.

So we looked it up.

"CDC estimates that each year roughly 1 in 6 Americans (or 48 million people out of 321 Million) get sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 5,000 die of food-borne diseases. According to the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (NIDDK), deaths from Food poisoning total about 5,000 annually in USA. That is 15.6 deaths per million residents." Source: CDC

Food poisoning in Thailand, 2003: 126,185 reported cases with 11 deaths. That is 0.15 deaths per million inhabitants. (Source Thai Health)

[suzannegoh]

My daughter, when visiting here, refused to eat in small, street-side restaurants. Surely, get sick there, she would say.

So we looked it up.

"CDC estimates that each year roughly 1 in 6 Americans (or 48 million people out of 321 Million) get sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 5,000 die of food-borne diseases. According to the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (NIDDK), deaths from Food poisoning total about 5,000 annually in USA. That is 15.6 deaths per million residents." Source: CDC

Food poisoning in Thailand, 2003: 126,185 reported cases with 11 deaths. That is 0.15 deaths per million inhabitants. (Source Thai Health)

Interesting stats. Part of that might be because of the Chipotle Syndrome; in the States it's become fashionable to focus on things being organic and free of "toxins" but unfashionable to worry about things like salmonella and norovirus contamination. But the concerns raised by the OP seem to be things that might possibly have a longterm effect on health rather than the type of thing that would result in an emergency room visit.

Edited May 26, 2016 by suzannegoh

[Trujillo]

Its funny that us Westerns have an automatic superior believe that all our meat, poultry, fish, vegetables and water supplies unquestionably come from pure clean fresh hygienic sources because of our strict laws, oversight, independent audits, etc.

You forgot shrink wrapped. That makes it automatically clean and healthy.

[xylophone]

My daughter, when visiting here, refused to eat in small, street-side restaurants. Surely, get sick there, she would say.

So we looked it up.

"CDC estimates that each year roughly 1 in 6 Americans (or 48 million people out of 321 Million) get sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 5,000 die of food-borne diseases. According to the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (NIDDK), deaths from Food poisoning total about 5,000 annually in USA. That is 15.6 deaths per million residents." Source: CDC

Food poisoning in Thailand, 2003: 126,185 reported cases with 11 deaths. That is 0.15 deaths per million inhabitants. (Source Thai Health)

Unfortunately these stats do not tell the whole story because they only deal with food poisoning and not the long-term effects of eating raw freshwater fish which can contain liver flukes, and more often than not result in liver cancer.

In men, more than half of all liver cancers are caused by this liver fluke and they will never be included in the stats above because this is a long-term thing.

Much the same with the excessive use of herbicides and pesticides here (pretty well uncontrolled) and although some may make you a little sick in the short term, it's the long-term effects of eating vegetables doused with this toxic stuff which will eventually get you, but will never show up in the stats.

[Aussie69]

You forgot shrink wrapped. That makes it automatically clean and healthy.

Yes of course. In the West all our food comes in nice clean hygenic packaging in brightly lit clean white supermarkets.

They did a survey of kids in Australia some time back; most kids had no idea about food origins beyond the supermarket. They simply did not link animals with their food source. (Then again I must mention that same year a survey of Aussie kids thought that George Bush was Australia's prime minister )

Edited May 26, 2016 by Aussie69

[opalred]

the trouble when breeding fish chickens pigs

you have to put antiobiotics and growth homones in there food

have been a grower in past if you dont do they will die

the worst are farmed salmon

but the worst came a few years ago in asia

everything fish and vegs are dipped in formaldehyde

to keep a long shelf life but short shelf life for you

[luk AJ]

the trouble when breeding fish chickens pigs

you have to put antiobiotics and growth homones in there food

have been a grower in past if you dont do they will die

the worst are farmed salmon

but the worst came a few years ago in asia

everything fish and vegs are dipped in formaldehyde

to keep a long shelf life but short shelf life for you

I am surprised that as a former grower you claim growth hormones are added to the feed. As far as I know, growth hormones need to be injected to be effective. Antibiotics are used but to supply enough meat for the world population, animals must be farmed intensively. I don't see an alternative and I would promote it as long as the industry follows clear rules. Same for fish farming, Norway was mentioned in one of the posts as a bad example, well this is as good as it can get. Waste under the cages are now treated with pro-biotics to convert waste to "good bacteria" this is an industry like poultry and pigs so we better get used to it.

[Trujillo]

Having lived in SE Asia for over 30 years now, and being in China and India too, I can say that most of this, "Oh there's some additives or they use some pesticides or you can get liver cancer and die, or worse," is super over-reacting.

The human body knows how to deal with a whole host of somewhat less than sterile food conditions. That's not to say people get don't sick, but it's not nearly as perilous as some would make it out to be.

Now, clean your plate!

[xylophone]

Having lived in SE Asia for over 30 years now, and being in China and India too, I can say that most of this, "Oh there's some additives or they use some pesticides or you can get liver cancer and die, or worse," is super over-reacting.

The human body knows how to deal with a whole host of somewhat less than sterile food conditions. That's not to say people get don't sick, but it's not nearly as perilous as some would make it out to be.

Now, clean your plate!

"In Thai men, more than half of all liver cancers are caused by the liver fluke"..........So I'm not sure that it is super overreacting, and sure, the body can cope with a lot of things that it clears out of the system, however there are many which have been proven over the years, that it cannot clear out and can be fatal.

Another poster mentioned that, "Antibiotics are used but to supply enough meat for the world population, animals must be farmed intensively".

According to the WHO or was it the United Nations, there is not a world shortage of food, in fact there is plenty to go round, the problem is that corruption and poor distribution methods ensure that much of which is produced actually doesn't reach the consumer and to support this a recent survey in the USA highlighted the fact that around 40% of food produced in that country never actually reaches the consumer (doesn't look good, bruised when handling, unrealistic date stamps, poor packaging etc), so there's plenty to go round and intensive farming is not necessary unless it is used to increase profits.

The problem with intensive farming is that you do get diseases because of the confined spaces and unhealthy environments in which these animals are reared and that would be the reason why some antibiotics and antimicrobials are used. So on the one hand you have the environment in which these animals are reared being the reason why disease can be rife and on the other hand you have the fact that profit drives the industry so........

."By far the major use of antibiotics among animals, however, is increased efficiency, i.e. a more efficient conversion of feed to animal products, and an improved growth rate. In chicken feed, for example, tetracycline and penicillin show substantial improvement in egg production, feed efficiency and hatchability, but no significant effect on mortality. Chlorotetracycline, oxytetracyclin and penicillin also show an improved growth rate, but little effect on mortality. Antibiotics in animal feed, in general, are used regularly for increased efficiency and growth rate than to combat specific diseases".

And this from the Council for Agricultural Science and Technology (USA)…….

“Antibiotics have been used in animal feed for about 50 years ever since the discovery not only as an anti-microbial agent, but also as a growth-promoting agent and improvement in performance. Tetracyclines, penicillin, streptomycin and bactrican soon began to be common additives in feed for livestock and poultry. Currently, the following antibiotics are used in livestock and poultry feed: chlortetracycline, procaine penicillin, oxytetracycline, tylosin, bacitracin, neomycin sulfate, streptomycin, erythromycin, linomycin, oleandomycin, virginamycin, and bambermycins. In addition to these antibiotics, which are of microbial origin, there are other chemically synthesized antimicrobial agents that are also sometimes used in animal feeds. These include three major classes of compounds: arsenical, nito-furan, and sulfa compounds. Arsenical compounds include arsanilic acid, 3-nitro-4-hydroxy phenylarsonic acid, and sodium arsanilate; nitro-furan compounds include furazolidone and nitro-furazone; sulfamethazine, sulfathiazole, and sulfaquinoxaline. Other chemicals are also used as antiprotozoal agents to prevent coccidiosis and histomaniasis in chickens and turkeys”.

Getting back to the original post, if you can possibly bypass any food which is deemed to be unhealthy either through its environment being contaminated by chemicals or the like, or through improper preparation/processing, then why wouldn't you?

[Mekong Bob]

Health issues aside, the pangasius fish is the tastiest mild white fish available commercially. And the cheapest.

Are you kidding me? Health issues aside? Get real!

Taste and cost aside, consumers need to be aware of health issues related to this catfish.

Get the facts from Thailand's Ministry of Health before you take another bite.

Sorry, not interested in your tasty Dory recipes, or how much you paid for it.

[Mekong Bob]

Ministry of Public Health

กรมวิทยาศาสตร์การแพทย์

Department of Medical Sciences

Bureau of Quality and Safety of Food

สำนักคุณภาพและความปลอดภัยอาหาร

[SundayAfternoon]

Ugh! I bough some only last week! Our choices seem to get more and more narrow. Farmed salmon or farmed prawns? Sprayed and tainted fruit and veg or some hormone and antibiotic meat? No wonder there is a massive autoimmune disease epidemic. Thanks for the info OP!

[Rancid]

Having lived in SE Asia for over 30 years now, and being in China and India too, I can say that most of this, "Oh there's some additives or they use some pesticides or you can get liver cancer and die, or worse," is super over-reacting.

The human body knows how to deal with a whole host of somewhat less than sterile food conditions. That's not to say people get don't sick, but it's not nearly as perilous as some would make it out to be.

Now, clean your plate!

You are right about the human bodies amazing resilience. But as said before it isn't the occasional ingestion of chemicals that gets you, it's the cumulative effect. In the end the body just gets overloaded.

Used to eat Dory, but after finding out how its grown I wouldn't touch it, others of course will have a different opinion. Never underestimate profit as incentive enough for growers or manufactures to happily poison you. They use the same rationale.

[Pdaz]

My cats love it...Cheaper than tinned cat food. If I want fish t eat I go to Naklua market and buy it live. Wouldn't dream of eating frozen fish fillets in a pack when the fresh, live item is available. Can't believe others waste their money on tasteless frozen cod when there is great local fresh fish available.. Almost as bad as the knobs eating baked beans and spam instead of tasty local Thai food...

[MESmith]

My cats love it...Cheaper than tinned cat food. If I want fish t eat I go to Naklua market and buy it live. Wouldn't dream of eating frozen fish fillets in a pack when the fresh, live item is available. Can't believe others waste their money on tasteless frozen cod when there is great local fresh fish available.. Almost as bad as the knobs eating baked beans and spam instead of tasty local Thai food...

What fresh live fish are you buying in Chiang Mai? Surely not those farmed tilipia.

It's a shame the supermarkets have such a poor selection of frozen seafood. The "fresh" sea fish look well past their sell by date