Redshirt leader Jatuporn given two years in jail for defamation charge

[halloween]

How many military coups have detoured this road to democracy since 1972?

European countries did not become democratic until they had their militaries under control. Thailand needs to work on that. Obviously the junta is not going to help with that aspect of democracy.

A young lady once asked me if I would still respect her in the morning. I asked her "What makes you think I respect you now?"

You would like the military to respect Thai democracy. First you have to offer them something worthy of respect. In evolutionary terms, Thai democracy is still in the bottom ooze, and a long way from breaking the surface and trying to breathe air.

[Winniedapu]

A new proof that Thailand is the contrary of a democratic country and is 555 years back in time compared to Europe.

Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?

A couple of weeks, a month, 6 months, a year of 10 or perhaps hundreds of years?

Yet you think and expect Thailand to reach that standard in 84 years.

The road to democracy started in 1973, with the students , another skirmish in 92, before that you wouldn't want to know it.

How many military coups have detoured this road to democracy since 1972?

European countries did not become democratic until they had their militaries under control. Thailand needs to work on that. Obviously the junta is not going to help with that aspect of democracy.

In my opinion, the military is not only what Thailand needs to get a grip on. There's a lot more wrong with Thailand than just a few grunts with delusions of grandeur.

Winnie

[jayboy]

In a related issue, On Friday an appeals court threw out Korn's libel suit against a whole host of enemies. Shocking, yes, but I suspect he'll pursue this one until he gets a judgement he can be happy with.

An/The Appeals Court has upheld the primary court ruling acquitting two Pheu Thai members for criticising former finance minister Korn Chatikavanij and his family for seeking favours from Thai Airways International.

Evidently TG staff made it known that Korn was always shaking them down for free upgrades, and since he was such a douche, they went public about his behavior. The amart just can't allow their boorish behavior to be made public.

Of course he can afford business or first class, but evidently they didn't "know who he was".

Don't know anything about the details of this case but the behaviour described is definitely not that typical of Khun Korn.I am unaware of anyone in upper political circles who is less a " do you know who I am" type.He would definitely not "shake down" TG staff.In any case he is (legitimately) a wealthy guy.This story doesn't make sense.

Well, evidently 'Khun Korn' is not such a principled man as you thought. You'll be in good company there - successful con-men are successful precisely because they fool people like you and me. I doubt he was picked on for a spot of casual victimisation by TG staff, but even if he was, it's likely a case of poetic justice as far as I'm concerned, he is not an upstanding man, he's a senior member of the so-called 'democratic' party, and even if he was unpopular with TG staff, there will be a good reason for that I expect. Many have apparently found him to be status-conscious and not very principled. A typical Thai politician perhaps.

Here's a life lesson, he's wealthy and powerful, so the likelihood is that he's exactly as you say he's not.

Winnie

Nah, you don't know the man.

And you do? The evidence given in court was that he would routinely buy the cheapest seats and then insist on upgrades. The court decided that the claims were essentially true, and fair criticism of a public figure.

Yes I do.As previously said I don't know the details of the case.If this is indeed what transpired I am sorry to hear it because it's completely out of character.

[Winniedapu]

In a related issue, On Friday an appeals court threw out Korn's libel suit against a whole host of enemies. Shocking, yes, but I suspect he'll pursue this one until he gets a judgement he can be happy with.

An/The Appeals Court has upheld the primary court ruling acquitting two Pheu Thai members for criticising former finance minister Korn Chatikavanij and his family for seeking favours from Thai Airways International.

Evidently TG staff made it known that Korn was always shaking them down for free upgrades, and since he was such a douche, they went public about his behavior. The amart just can't allow their boorish behavior to be made public.

Of course he can afford business or first class, but evidently they didn't "know who he was".

Don't know anything about the details of this case but the behaviour described is definitely not that typical of Khun Korn.I am unaware of anyone in upper political circles who is less a " do you know who I am" type.He would definitely not "shake down" TG staff.In any case he is (legitimately) a wealthy guy.This story doesn't make sense.

Well, evidently 'Khun Korn' is not such a principled man as you thought. You'll be in good company there - successful con-men are successful precisely because they fool people like you and me. I doubt he was picked on for a spot of casual victimisation by TG staff, but even if he was, it's likely a case of poetic justice as far as I'm concerned, he is not an upstanding man, he's a senior member of the so-called 'democratic' party, and even if he was unpopular with TG staff, there will be a good reason for that I expect. Many have apparently found him to be status-conscious and not very principled. A typical Thai politician perhaps.

Here's a life lesson, he's wealthy and powerful, so the likelihood is that he's exactly as you say he's not.

Winnie

Nah, you don't know the man.

And you do? The evidence given in court was that he would routinely buy the cheapest seats and then insist on upgrades. The court decided that the claims were essentially true, and fair criticism of a public figure.

Yes I do.As previously said I don't know the details of the case.If this is indeed what transpired I am sorry to hear it because it's completely out of character.

Well, an eventual climb-down is better than no climb-down at all. It seems I do actually know the man better than you and I don't know him at all.

Don't feel bad, he's conned better people than either of us, and he's in good company in the 'Democratic' party. Suthep, Abhisit. Panitan. the list just goes on and on.

Winnie

[halloween]

And you do? The evidence given in court was that he would routinely buy the cheapest seats and then insist on upgrades. The court decided that the claims were essentially true, and fair criticism of a public figure.

Yes I do.As previously said I don't know the details of the case.If this is indeed what transpired I am sorry to hear it because it's completely out of character.

Well, an eventual climb-down is better than no climb-down at all. It seems I do actually know the man better than you and I don't know him at all.

Don't feel bad, he's conned better people than either of us, and he's in good company in the 'Democratic' party. Suthep, Abhisit. Panitan. the list just goes on and on.

Winnie

While the 'Democratic' party may contain many criminals, it is US based. In Thailand, we have the Democrat Party, of which Suthep resigned some years ago, and while Korn's actions were an abuse of office influence, it hardly compares with the criminality of PTP's star candidates. Their last party list sounded like a roll call of <deleted>.

[Winniedapu]

And you do? The evidence given in court was that he would routinely buy the cheapest seats and then insist on upgrades. The court decided that the claims were essentially true, and fair criticism of a public figure.

Yes I do.As previously said I don't know the details of the case.If this is indeed what transpired I am sorry to hear it because it's completely out of character.

Well, an eventual climb-down is better than no climb-down at all. It seems I do actually know the man better than you and I don't know him at all.

Don't feel bad, he's conned better people than either of us, and he's in good company in the 'Democratic' party. Suthep, Abhisit. Panitan. the list just goes on and on.

Winnie

While the 'Democratic' party may contain many criminals, it is US based. In Thailand, we have the Democrat Party, of which Suthep resigned some years ago, and while Korn's actions were an abuse of office influence, it hardly compares with the criminality of PTP's star candidates. Their last party list sounded like a roll call of <deleted>.

Thank you for pointing that out. Any confusion as to my location has been effectively dispelled. Indebted to you.

Did you notice the single parenthesis? No? OK, no matter.

Suthep resigned, as did some of his mates, at the insistence of the Democrat party's hierarchy because they knew that a party member member of the executive inciting sedition and treason would result in the party being dissolved. Suthep also recognised that his time as a mover and shaker in the party had come to an end and he was never going to PM, or even close to PM because the party was unelectable. Added to this personal agenda being frustrated, he was not going to progress or even be trusted in the party again because he had been forced to resign from the party some years earlier under a cloud of repeated allegations of corruption. He was tainted, as luxury the party could no longer afford.

I don't think that was in America though. I'm pretty sure it was in Thailand.

Winnie

Edited June 12, 2016 by Winniedapu

[heybruce]

How many military coups have detoured this road to democracy since 1972?

European countries did not become democratic until they had their militaries under control. Thailand needs to work on that. Obviously the junta is not going to help with that aspect of democracy.

A young lady once asked me if I would still respect her in the morning. I asked her "What makes you think I respect you now?"

You would like the military to respect Thai democracy. First you have to offer them something worthy of respect. In evolutionary terms, Thai democracy is still in the bottom ooze, and a long way from breaking the surface and trying to breathe air.

I would like the military to stay in the barracks and let democracy take root, evolve and mature. The most recent attempt at Thai democracy that you hold in contempt is one based on a constitution written at the direction of the military after its previous coup.

You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?". Leaving aside the fact that Europe is a continent of many nations, not all with proper democracy (Belarus is hardly a shining example), I am aware of no country in Europe that developed a stable democracy while enduring repeated military coups.

I maintain that Thailand won't have a stable, mature democracy until the military stays in the barracks and accepts civilian control. You seem to think that until Thailand somehow becomes a stable, mature democracy the military is entitled to its frequent coups. How do you think a democracy can mature with coups happening every few years?

BTW, why should any democrat respect the Thai military? For that matter, why would any military man respect the Thai military? Why do so many people in this forum put the bloated, inept, corrupt, top-heavy with greedy generals, Thai military on a pedestal? Why do they think it will bring democracy to Thailand?

Edited June 12, 2016 by heybruce

[MaxLee]

Only 2 years????? ......... <- exactly his thoughts,......

[Winniedapu]

How many military coups have detoured this road to democracy since 1972?

European countries did not become democratic until they had their militaries under control. Thailand needs to work on that. Obviously the junta is not going to help with that aspect of democracy.

A young lady once asked me if I would still respect her in the morning. I asked her "What makes you think I respect you now?"

You would like the military to respect Thai democracy. First you have to offer them something worthy of respect. In evolutionary terms, Thai democracy is still in the bottom ooze, and a long way from breaking the surface and trying to breathe air.

I would like the military to stay in the barracks and let democracy take root, evolve and mature. The most recent attempt at Thai democracy that you hold in contempt is one based on a constitution written at the direction of the military after its previous coup.

You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?". Leaving aside the fact that Europe is a continent of many nations, not all with proper democracy (Belarus is hardly a shining example), I am aware of no country in Europe that developed a stable democracy while enduring repeated military coups.

I maintain that Thailand won't have a stable, mature democracy until the military stays in the barracks and accepts civilian control. You seem to think that until Thailand somehow becomes a stable, mature democracy the military is entitled to its frequent coups. How do you think a democracy can mature with coups happening every few years?

BTW, why should any democrat respect the Thai military? For that matter, why would any military man respect the Thai military? Why do so many people in this forum put the bloated, inept, corrupt, top-heavy with greedy generals, Thai military on a pedestal? Why do they think it will bring democracy to Thailand?

Good points all, and (if I may say so) a refreshingly sane perspective. 2 observations:

1. The army is not the problem in Thailand. Thais need top resolve the problem in Thailand, and many are now correctly identifying it so that's a good start. This point may be moot soon anyway, I don't think the referendum will take place and I certainly don't think an election will take place next year. Maybe I'm wrong but I reserve the right to say "I told you so" if I'm right.

2. Time is the same for everyone, it is universal. If Thailand has been 'working for democracy' behind the progress of other nations, it is because they started later and the people have still not yet become fed up enough to overthrow the feudal barons. There is no merit in saying that Thailand has only been chasing democracy for 80-odd years, the fact is they were riding around on elephants and killing each other at the same time as the English was riding around on horses doing the same thing, and at the same time as France was overthrowing its oppressors at source etc etc, and they did not make the social reformations that other countries did. Laziness and a lack of courage does not entitle them to extra time on the human development calendar. Thailand was a much more primitive society then and they're a much more primitive society now. If they chose to start several hundred years after other countries, it's their fault, nobody else's. It's one of the things that make Thailand a part of the 3rd world, despite what they think it is. Someone badly needs to clear the Thai augean stables of all the BS that's been put there.

But I do think that will change, and it will begin with a catalytic event, much as Sleeping Beauty was awakened with a kiss as a catalyst, sleeping Thailand will be awakened from their soporific slumber by a single event as a catalyst.

And then the excrement will interface with the fan.

Sleeping Beauty learned a valuable lesson from all that, which Thailand has yet to learn: that life can be a bed of roses but you have to watch out for the pricks.

Winnie

Edited June 12, 2016 by Winniedapu

[kimamey]

I strongly suspect that, on looking back, perhaps in 2017, Jatuporn will prove to have been the catalyst, or a major player behind YL if she is the catalyst.

Making a martyr of Jatuporn might not have been a really smart idea, and it's the little general who will be blamed. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility and the little general gave himself ultimate power.

I guess we'll see, but I think I'll put a bag of popcorn in the cooker...

Closer than we think., The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in is rustier than we think... (apologies to RW).

Winnie

I don't experience any anger among Thai people.

OK - I have no contact to red Shirts but anyway - they are a minority

Well, since it's largely the red shirts who are angry, and who are getting angrier, which sort of invalidates your comment a bit because, as you say, you have no contact with them. Doesn't take a genius to see what's happening though, which is probably a good thing because there are very few Thai geniuses.

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000. I can't help but wonder how they could do so if they were an electoral minority. They may be population minority, but that is a useless fact because It isn't about numbers of supporters, it's about numbers of people who will stand and fight, in whatever fashion might suit them against highly regimented and formulaic soldiers who have little real intelligence and can't adapt quickly.

Since Suthep's claim of 3.5 million people in BKK representing the 'great mass of the people" was only about 200,000, and according to some observers they used aerial photos from the 60th anniversary celebrations anyway, we get a more realistic assessment of where the real power lies, and it isn't necessarily in the yellow direction. The balance is tipping. The landed barons know this and some of them are (as we speak) making arrangements to srore small mouintains of wealth outside of Thailand.

Prayuth is really worried about the redshirts, and because he isn't very smart, he's poking the sleeping dog while he rides the tiger (sorry to mix metaphors). This arrogance will likely cost him dearly, bless him, he's not the brightest start in the sky on a good day. His actions have been largely triggered by events not under his control, hence his frequently bad temper - he knows he's not in control. He doesn't have much personal choice in the path he's following. More and more I think this man (whom I personally believe to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic) is going to become the fulcrum, around which Thailand will come crashing down around his ears.

The unpredictable thing is whether or not the propagandised people in North and North-East have awoken up enough to be angry and prepared to stand and fight, come the day. Consider that, in conjunction with what will be a huge psychological crisis precipitated by an event we can't talk about, and I think there are reasons to think that the country will likely become a story of accelerating disintegration - a process that has probably already started. Partly because of the ineptitude of Prayuth and his merry men, and partly because the propaganda over several decades has caused most Thais to strongly identify and associate themselves with one idea; when that idea disappears, the focus of their identification will suddenly not be there. This is likely to generate a perfect storm. Combine that with an already simmering resentment towards Prayuth and the feudal barons, and Prayuth's inept management of the country and ... well, I think you can guess what may lay in store as well as I can. Prayuth certainly can unless I miss my guess. And that's before we factor in rival sections of the armed forces and police that may not support him.

A possible wildcard in this game of cards, is the secessionists in the south of Thailand, who are slowly discovering (via whatever trouble-makers there may be down there) that their future lies, not necessarily in bombing the south but perhaps in aiming a bit to the north to achieve their goals. This is also something that worries the generalissimo.

Just a few thoughts, perhaps they have no merit. But then again, perhaps they do. Who's to say? The disadvantage of having 65,000,000 people in an essentially chaotic and disorganised culture is that prediction becomes difficult.

Winnie

I wasn't aware the redshirts (UDD) had taken part in any elections let alone won any. Maybe I haven't been paying attention.

I wasn't aware the redshirts (UDD) had taken part in any elections let alone won any. Maybe I haven't been paying attention.

Perhaps you haven't. I said Redshirts, *you* said UDD. The redshirts were a bloc before the UDD formalised it.

I'm sure this is just an unwitting mis-statement, but, even though this is Thailand, the whole point is that *all eligible voters" have the right to elect a government.. Of course the UDD took part in elections, and before the UDD became an entity, the people who later became a part of the UDD still participated.

That's why the Thaksin and Thaksin-affilated parties always won.

In any event, that lack of insight really ruined the post for me and I pretty much stopped reading right there. The rest of the post might well be better but I shall wait until it is reposted.

Winnie

You'll have a long wait. It's there if you want to read it. Actually if you took the time your fund that I agree with you on some points.

I'm perfectly able to read the word "redshirts" thank you. The reason I mentioned UDD is that is the name often used in more recent times. Either way just because they or their supporters backed the winning party doesn't mean they've won an election. If they won why were there so few redshirts/UDD in top posts.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were to run in their own name in a few years time. If for some reason Thaksin wasn't there to lead his own party then how would it cope? I've seen several articles suggesting Thaksin might be losing some of his influence and popularity which given the disastrous effect his obsession with his amnesty caused wouldn't be that surprising. There would obviously be a danger of splitting the vote but the redshirts might consider that a risk worth taking in order to gain more control over policies in the longer term and avoid having those scarified to someone else's self interest. I would imagine there would be a lot of PTP politicians prepared to switch for similar reasons. If they were to win an election and if they managed to behave and not try to abuse their position it might be much more difficult for the army to step in. In 2014 transactions antics which weakened his support was just asking for trouble. A longer period without military intervention might enable democracy to become established. I also think it would benefit the Democrats they seem to get associated with any coup which makes it more difficult for them to mount opposition in parliament.

Of course none of this will matter until there are elections and it's difficult to predict when that will come but the longer it takes the more likely the scenario you described will be.

[rubl]

While some wonder about the military, others wonder about Jatuporn and why there is so much distraction from his defamation case and sentence.

The man's a rabble rouser and thanks to PTV we have the shoutcasts to prove it.

[cougar52]

No Suprise here, on the 11th he was release on a Bail of 200,000 Baht to appeal to the Supreme Court. Which he has done before many times?

[Rhys]

....so for the newly HISO with LOSO roots... he received his punishment in the paper, and he goes on in public not a thing changes and he becomes another who twerks the system. another smile of importance

[halloween]

How many military coups have detoured this road to democracy since 1972?

European countries did not become democratic until they had their militaries under control. Thailand needs to work on that. Obviously the junta is not going to help with that aspect of democracy.

A young lady once asked me if I would still respect her in the morning. I asked her "What makes you think I respect you now?"

You would like the military to respect Thai democracy. First you have to offer them something worthy of respect. In evolutionary terms, Thai democracy is still in the bottom ooze, and a long way from breaking the surface and trying to breathe air.

I would like the military to stay in the barracks and let democracy take root, evolve and mature. The most recent attempt at Thai democracy that you hold in contempt is one based on a constitution written at the direction of the military after its previous coup.

You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?". Leaving aside the fact that Europe is a continent of many nations, not all with proper democracy (Belarus is hardly a shining example), I am aware of no country in Europe that developed a stable democracy while enduring repeated military coups.

I maintain that Thailand won't have a stable, mature democracy until the military stays in the barracks and accepts civilian control. You seem to think that until Thailand somehow becomes a stable, mature democracy the military is entitled to its frequent coups. How do you think a democracy can mature with coups happening every few years?

BTW, why should any democrat respect the Thai military? For that matter, why would any military man respect the Thai military? Why do so many people in this forum put the bloated, inept, corrupt, top-heavy with greedy generals, Thai military on a pedestal? Why do they think it will bring democracy to Thailand?

You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?".

No, I didn't. But don't let that stop your little rant. Nor did I ask you to respect the Thai military, because I certainly don't.

OTOH I don't see any other mechanism than the military to enforce necessary changes in Thai democracy, because those elected are certainly not going to enact laws that harm their cosy little set-up. Give me one reason why a wealthy power seeker should be allowed to bribe MPs to join his party, then use the party list to appoint himself or proxies and other unelectable scum like Chalerm.

Then he gives himself illegal access to cabinet meetings, and suborns the police into ignoring criminal activity. Do you think that is democracy? Do you think he will suddenly develop a bad case of altruism?

[heybruce]

How many military coups have detoured this road to democracy since 1972?

European countries did not become democratic until they had their militaries under control. Thailand needs to work on that. Obviously the junta is not going to help with that aspect of democracy.

A young lady once asked me if I would still respect her in the morning. I asked her "What makes you think I respect you now?"

You would like the military to respect Thai democracy. First you have to offer them something worthy of respect. In evolutionary terms, Thai democracy is still in the bottom ooze, and a long way from breaking the surface and trying to breathe air.

I would like the military to stay in the barracks and let democracy take root, evolve and mature. The most recent attempt at Thai democracy that you hold in contempt is one based on a constitution written at the direction of the military after its previous coup.

You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?". Leaving aside the fact that Europe is a continent of many nations, not all with proper democracy (Belarus is hardly a shining example), I am aware of no country in Europe that developed a stable democracy while enduring repeated military coups.

I maintain that Thailand won't have a stable, mature democracy until the military stays in the barracks and accepts civilian control. You seem to think that until Thailand somehow becomes a stable, mature democracy the military is entitled to its frequent coups. How do you think a democracy can mature with coups happening every few years?

BTW, why should any democrat respect the Thai military? For that matter, why would any military man respect the Thai military? Why do so many people in this forum put the bloated, inept, corrupt, top-heavy with greedy generals, Thai military on a pedestal? Why do they think it will bring democracy to Thailand?

You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?".

No, I didn't. But don't let that stop your little rant. Nor did I ask you to respect the Thai military, because I certainly don't.

OTOH I don't see any other mechanism than the military to enforce necessary changes in Thai democracy, because those elected are certainly not going to enact laws that harm their cosy little set-up. Give me one reason why a wealthy power seeker should be allowed to bribe MPs to join his party, then use the party list to appoint himself or proxies and other unelectable scum like Chalerm.

Then he gives himself illegal access to cabinet meetings, and suborns the police into ignoring criminal activity. Do you think that is democracy? Do you think he will suddenly develop a bad case of altruism?

"You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?".

No, I didn't."

You are correct. It was build766 who asked that question. My apologies.

OTOH I don't see the military enforcing changes in Thailand that aren't in its interests, and the generals clearly don't see democracy as being in their interests. Also the greed, corruption and crimes of the military exceed any in the PTP government. Give me one example from the many times of military rule in Thailand of a military government cleaning up corruption in Thailand.

The PTP government was attempting to hold an election in July 2014 when the coup was staged. The election would have been held when both the PTP and the Democrats were at low points in popularity and the voters fired up about corruption. It would have shaken things up in the Thai political establishment and, much more important, further entrenched democracy and elected government in Thailand.

The Thai people could vote the Shinawatra's out of government. The fact that they chose not to is irrelevant, the power to choose Thailand's leaders was in the hands of the Thai people. Nobody can vote the generals out of the military junta. That is the difference between the type of government I support and the type you support.

[halloween]

You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?".

No, I didn't. But don't let that stop your little rant. Nor did I ask you to respect the Thai military, because I certainly don't.

OTOH I don't see any other mechanism than the military to enforce necessary changes in Thai democracy, because those elected are certainly not going to enact laws that harm their cosy little set-up. Give me one reason why a wealthy power seeker should be allowed to bribe MPs to join his party, then use the party list to appoint himself or proxies and other unelectable scum like Chalerm.

Then he gives himself illegal access to cabinet meetings, and suborns the police into ignoring criminal activity. Do you think that is democracy? Do you think he will suddenly develop a bad case of altruism?

"You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?".

No, I didn't."

You are correct. It was build766 who asked that question. My apologies.

OTOH I don't see the military enforcing changes in Thailand that aren't in its interests, and the generals clearly don't see democracy as being in their interests. Also the greed, corruption and crimes of the military exceed any in the PTP government. Give me one example from the many times of military rule in Thailand of a military government cleaning up corruption in Thailand.

The PTP government was attempting to hold an election in July 2014 when the coup was staged. The election would have been held when both the PTP and the Democrats were at low points in popularity and the voters fired up about corruption. It would have shaken things up in the Thai political establishment and, much more important, further entrenched democracy and elected government in Thailand.

The Thai people could vote the Shinawatra's out of government. The fact that they chose not to is irrelevant, the power to choose Thailand's leaders was in the hands of the Thai people. Nobody can vote the generals out of the military junta. That is the difference between the type of government I support and the type you support.

So you are of the opinion that the winner of the 2006 or 2014 elections would have banned MPs from taking 3rd party payments, abandoned the party list, and made the BIB truly independent, and stopped the using of insider information to enrich themselves?

Or any of the above? Just what did you expect other than the same clowns performing the same sad act?

Edited June 19, 2016 by halloween

[Moonmoon]

swift justice for a red shirt leader. what about the elites who have killed with their automobiles? sigh..

[Winniedapu]

You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?".

No, I didn't. But don't let that stop your little rant. Nor did I ask you to respect the Thai military, because I certainly don't.

OTOH I don't see any other mechanism than the military to enforce necessary changes in Thai democracy, because those elected are certainly not going to enact laws that harm their cosy little set-up. Give me one reason why a wealthy power seeker should be allowed to bribe MPs to join his party, then use the party list to appoint himself or proxies and other unelectable scum like Chalerm.

Then he gives himself illegal access to cabinet meetings, and suborns the police into ignoring criminal activity. Do you think that is democracy? Do you think he will suddenly develop a bad case of altruism?

"You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?".

No, I didn't."

You are correct. It was build766 who asked that question. My apologies.

OTOH I don't see the military enforcing changes in Thailand that aren't in its interests, and the generals clearly don't see democracy as being in their interests. Also the greed, corruption and crimes of the military exceed any in the PTP government. Give me one example from the many times of military rule in Thailand of a military government cleaning up corruption in Thailand.

The PTP government was attempting to hold an election in July 2014 when the coup was staged. The election would have been held when both the PTP and the Democrats were at low points in popularity and the voters fired up about corruption. It would have shaken things up in the Thai political establishment and, much more important, further entrenched democracy and elected government in Thailand.

The Thai people could vote the Shinawatra's out of government. The fact that they chose not to is irrelevant, the power to choose Thailand's leaders was in the hands of the Thai people. Nobody can vote the generals out of the military junta. That is the difference between the type of government I support and the type you support.

So you are of the opinion that the winner of the 2006 or 2014 elections would have banned MPs from taking 3rd party payments, abandoned the party list, and made the BIB truly independent, and stopped the using of insider information to enrich themselves?

Or any of the above? Just what did you expect other than the same clowns performing the same sad act?

One of the sad things about a democracy is having to accept the will of the electorate.

Unpalatable sometimes, especially for those who think they know better or can do better. Prayuth has showed us all that being convinced you know better doesn't always translate into doing better, and that conviction isn't always enough - competence also matters.

Everything this man touches turns to dust in his fingers.

Winnie

Edited June 19, 2016 by Winniedapu

[heybruce]

You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?".

No, I didn't. But don't let that stop your little rant. Nor did I ask you to respect the Thai military, because I certainly don't.

OTOH I don't see any other mechanism than the military to enforce necessary changes in Thai democracy, because those elected are certainly not going to enact laws that harm their cosy little set-up. Give me one reason why a wealthy power seeker should be allowed to bribe MPs to join his party, then use the party list to appoint himself or proxies and other unelectable scum like Chalerm.

Then he gives himself illegal access to cabinet meetings, and suborns the police into ignoring criminal activity. Do you think that is democracy? Do you think he will suddenly develop a bad case of altruism?

"You asked the question earlier "Just out of interest can you tell me how long it took Europe to become democratic?".

No, I didn't."

You are correct. It was build766 who asked that question. My apologies.

OTOH I don't see the military enforcing changes in Thailand that aren't in its interests, and the generals clearly don't see democracy as being in their interests. Also the greed, corruption and crimes of the military exceed any in the PTP government. Give me one example from the many times of military rule in Thailand of a military government cleaning up corruption in Thailand.

The PTP government was attempting to hold an election in July 2014 when the coup was staged. The election would have been held when both the PTP and the Democrats were at low points in popularity and the voters fired up about corruption. It would have shaken things up in the Thai political establishment and, much more important, further entrenched democracy and elected government in Thailand.

The Thai people could vote the Shinawatra's out of government. The fact that they chose not to is irrelevant, the power to choose Thailand's leaders was in the hands of the Thai people. Nobody can vote the generals out of the military junta. That is the difference between the type of government I support and the type you support.

So you are of the opinion that the winner of the 2006 or 2014 elections would have banned MPs from taking 3rd party payments, abandoned the party list, and made the BIB truly independent, and stopped the using of insider information to enrich themselves?

Or any of the above? Just what did you expect other than the same clowns performing the same sad act?

Do you think that speculating on counterfactuals is productive? I don't.

"Just what did you expect other than the same clowns performing the same sad act?"

If you are referring to the military, I expect them to perform the same sad act. I don't think this military government will leave Thailand any better off than any of the past military governments.

You never address the entrenched corruption in the military. You never acknowledge the failures of past military governments. You keep your blinders firmly in place. You are in a sad state of denial.

Why do you read a little about this military that you think will do wonderful things for Thailand: http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/