Fined from immigration yesterday in our hotel

[AgMech Cowboy]

Ian, good luck with your new hotel business. I hope it all works out for you. I still puzzle over the immigration laws and have lived here-ish for 18 years. I can't imagine taking on the responsibility of managing all the requirements you face. Keep your chin up and a smile on your face. It sounds like you did well.

[sendintheclowns]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

And what if you live in a gfs house, or condo with gf name on lease?

Anyone in this position that knows already, you try and tell the gf and the landlord, they both look at you like you are crazy.

I mentioned this issue to several Thais and they mostly just scoff or say "no no, no have to do for you"

So yeah..pretty hard to get the process done, copies of lease etc when your up against this.

then if they get fined,they will be coming to you for the money because its your fault cause your the farang staying here.grrr

Bamukloy - this set up (living in your gf's house or in a leased condo where the lease is in her name) does make it complicated. why would you arrange things that way?

Still, I do sympathize with the OP. It hurts when it is money hard earned and due to ignorance of the regulations. For the nay-sayers, here, all Thai laws have to be followed. Regulations, not being a specific law, may or may not be enforced (as was the case with the TM 28/30 for many years, up to 2016).

Edited June 17, 2016 by sendintheclowns

[chrisinth]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

And what if you live in a gfs house, or condo with gf name on lease?

Anyone in this position that knows already, you try and tell the gf and the landlord, they both look at you like you are crazy.

I mentioned this issue to several Thais and they mostly just scoff or say "no no, no have to do for you"

So yeah..pretty hard to get the process done, copies of lease etc when your up against this.

then if they get fined,they will be coming to you for the money because its your fault cause your the farang staying here.grrr

That's what your TM28 & 30 are for.

kap choeng seems to think it's all BS, when i asked at immigration about it,ie. if i go to BKK for a week does the missus have to register with immigration that i am back they just pooh poohed the idea, no not for just a week, they just didn't seem bothered.

To be honest, I've never done it myself while travelling around Thailand.

[RedQualia]

Yes,i got the receipt.

Doesn't much matter, as there are no refunds on fines paid to immigration, et al.

That said, it appears to be something that may qualify as a business expense. If so, it may be possible to deduct it from the hotel income amount come tax time as an "income related expense."

Following information applies to renting homes and condos, etc.: ' According to Section 43 of the RC in conjunction with Section 5(1)(a) of the RC and Royal Decree No. 11 (“RD“), expenses may be deducted “n the case of houses, buildings, other constructions (…): [and] if let by the owner, a standard deduction of 30 percent shall be allowed as expenses (…)”. '

That passage from http://www.duensingkippen.com/thailandpropertylawblog/?p=28

I'm not saying you can deduct the fine as an expense. Only that it appears likely, and that you should look into it. It's an expense. You paid it.

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic posts meant to derail the topic have been removed.

Now more of them.

[PeCeDe]

One should remember, that this procedure is for good sound reasons, and can catch out many illegals, and ne'er do wells. In these days of extreme terrorism, there's probably many a person who would like to enter LOS illegally and then try to carry on life normally until they feel ready to act.

This procedure happens in many countries, Thailand is not alone in requiring new guests to be registered with the Government.

A sensible law.

[lungbing]

Quote " This procedure happens in many countries, Thailand is not alone in requiring new guests to be registered with the Government. "

Yes, but I bet it's unique in that the police collect the fines themselves.

[mcfish]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

Wouldn't they need a work or business visa to pay tax? Can a tourist visa fall into that category.

[ubonjoe]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

Wouldn't they need a work or business visa to pay tax? Can a tourist visa fall into that category.

A work permit is not required to pay taxes. If you declare the income they they will gladly let you pay taxes on it.

And example is taxes for interest earned for savings accounts.

[Gary A]

The guys with the condo rentals think this is a back door way for the government to start collecting taxes on the rent. That sounds logical to me.

[PeCeDe]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

Wouldn't they need a work or business visa to pay tax? Can a tourist visa fall into that category.

A work permit is not required to pay taxes. If you declare the income they they will gladly let you pay taxes on it.

And example is taxes for interest earned for savings accounts.

Can't say what the Thai Tax dept would do if someone without a legal Thai reason for being here, e.g. WP. I can say that the United States IRS was not required to report taxpayers who payed and were in good standing but without SSN's. In fact the IRS considered illegals some of their best taxpayers... Go figure.

[ubonjoe]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

Wouldn't they need a work or business visa to pay tax? Can a tourist visa fall into that category.

A work permit is not required to pay taxes. If you declare the income they they will gladly let you pay taxes on it.

And example is taxes for interest earned for savings accounts.

Can't say what the Thai Tax dept would do if someone without a legal Thai reason for being here, e.g. WP. I can say that the United States IRS was not required to report taxpayers who payed and were in good standing but without SSN's. In fact the IRS considered illegals some of their best taxpayers... Go figure.

A work permit does not give you a legal reason to be here. Only a visa or extension of stay allows you to stay.

Lots of people have money in the bank, have taxes deducted and claim a refund for it.

Al that is needed is a tax payer identification number (TIN). See: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21987.0.html

[ThaiTony2]

Most likely they have you on the radar screen and from time to time they will visit you again.

[thairookie]

You can do it online if you register at immigration to get a user name and password.

Yes Ubonjoe .Yesterday one of the officers made the online registration for me.

How to make online registration ?

[motyduke]

I have a friend who has a resort business near Chiang mai . Told me that immigration visited him 3 Times in 2 months !

[BigT73]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

And what if you live in a gfs house, or condo with gf name on lease?

Anyone in this position that knows already, you try and tell the gf and the landlord, they both look at you like you are crazy.

I mentioned this issue to several Thais and they mostly just scoff or say "no no, no have to do for you"

So yeah..pretty hard to get the process done, copies of lease etc when your up against this.

then if they get fined,they will be coming to you for the money because its your fault cause your the farang staying here.grrr

That's what your TM28 & 30 are for.

kap choeng seems to think it's all BS, when i asked at immigration about it,ie. if i go to BKK for a week does the missus have to register with immigration that i am back they just pooh poohed the idea, no not for just a week, they just didn't seem bothered.

With the new Multi-entry visa there isnt a need to go to immigration for at-least 8 months as your stamps are all from the border. So to be on the safe side I went down to immigration with my gf who is on the chanote, to do the tm forms (register where im staying), they weren't even interested all they wanted to know if I wanted a 30 day extension then the tm forms are required.

[Suradit69]

So how is it that the 'real' 10,000 baht fine can be negotiated down to 6,000 baht?

That issue alone makes the whole procedure appear vulnerable to corruption and abuse.

Do you understand the word "maximum" in maximum fine?

It may appear vulnerable to many things in your mind, but that's your problem. He broke the law. He got an official receipt. Ignorance of the law is not a defense anywhere.

They were doing their job and being lenient at their discretion.

Would you have been happier if they demanded the maximum?

[landslide]

You can do it online if you register at immigration to get a user name and password.

Yes Ubonjoe .Yesterday one of the officers made the online registration for me.

At least the officer assisted you in setting up the online registration. You don't always see that in Thai government.

[Dumbastheycome]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

And what if you live in a gfs house, or condo with gf name on lease?

Anyone in this position that knows already, you try and tell the gf and the landlord, they both look at you like you are crazy.

I mentioned this issue to several Thais and they mostly just scoff or say "no no, no have to do for you"

So yeah..pretty hard to get the process done, copies of lease etc when your up against this.

then if they get fined,they will be coming to you for the money because its your fault cause your the farang staying here.grrr

Hand them a copy of a TM 30. It is clear in Thai that it is for them, not you.

[Ian1980]

Then this sounds like the Police/Immigration Officers were amiable, following the law, and being perfectly legit. That's nice

They were not absolutely rude and they explain the rules.

[Ian1980]

Your own fault, not something difficult !

Is totally my fault,of course:i made a mistake,pay the consequences and next time will not happen again....expecially for the hotel's revenue

[Ian1980]

As far as I can tell the guy admitted he made a mistake and was just relating his experience here. I don't understand why some people seem to be so sanctimonious over it.

Is ok:but someone think are better than the others.

[Ian1980]

Ian, good luck with your new hotel business. I hope it all works out for you. I still puzzle over the immigration laws and have lived here-ish for 18 years. I can't imagine taking on the responsibility of managing all the requirements you face. Keep your chin up and a smile on your face. It sounds like you did well.

Thanks a lot for your word:there are few things that sure i am missing,but next week i will try to get a full views of all rules for run our hotel at the best.Now i am sure only about my wp and visa.

[Ian1980]

Most likely they have you on the radar screen and from time to time they will visit you again.

For sure ThaiTony.

[jacko45k]

So why didnt you register the guests, it should be SOP.

To be honest as i am new in this kind of business i don't know.I made a mistake,i paied for it,now will not be happen again.

Better you get to know the regulations and perhaps seek advice before you go into business.

Be aware there is likely someone will report you for any infringements and they will relish the opportunity to 'fine you'....

Anyhow, good luck with the business.

[overherebc]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

And what if you live in a gfs house, or condo with gf name on lease?

Anyone in this position that knows already, you try and tell the gf and the landlord, they both look at you like you are crazy.

I mentioned this issue to several Thais and they mostly just scoff or say "no no, no have to do for you"

So yeah..pretty hard to get the process done, copies of lease etc when your up against this.

then if they get fined,they will be coming to you for the money because its your fault cause your the farang staying here.grrr

That's what your TM28 & 30 are for.

kap choeng seems to think it's all BS, when i asked at immigration about it,ie. if i go to BKK for a week does the missus have to register with immigration that i am back they just pooh poohed the idea, no not for just a week, they just didn't seem bothered.

I recently went for a Res' Cert' and Imm asked my wife if she had registered me at home. My wife said she had no idea that she had to. Really nice lady in Imm' explained that it was required and filled in the paperwork for my wife to sign and gave me a receipt of notification to keep in my passport.

No fine paid just pleasant explanation.

[GuestHouse]

I've just sent a link to this thread to a TVF friend of mine who also runs a hotel ....

I thought that a more helpful response to the report than gloating over the OP getting caught out.

[billd766]

Good! Next time you will follow Thai Law!

I assume that you are an expert on EVERY Thai law of the land and have never broken even one of them.

[LivinginKata]

It's the 'housemaster' responsiblty to register all 'aliens' staying in that residence. Been Thai law forever. A few years ago the media here in Phuket made a number of high profile stories about the plan of Phuket Immigration to enforce that law. A fine of 6,000 baht per person would be imposed for each unregistered guest.

I always knew about this rule but we were 'lazy' about registering our guests and my Thai wife took the 'mai pen rai' attitude. On the strength of the news story I marched her down to immigration and had an online registration account set up for our small apartment rental company .... no worries anymore ...

[DavisH]

I know several guys who have some condos that they rent out. They have never paid any tax nor have they registered their renters. They are quite worried right now. Recently immigration has been asking for details and information from renters. Renters need to furnish a contract, name of the owner they rent from and a copy of the owner's ID.

Everyone at my school was asked to get this information (from out landlord/wife) before we could get out extension of stay on our non-imm B - no fines imposed for not having done it. Note, this is different documentation than hotels reporting their guests. But is seems they are cracking down on everything they can now.