Laptop battery discharges quicky when laptop is off.

[Jai Normous]

I have a 12 month old HP laptop. The laptop has good specs, has genuine Windows 7, and I am happy with it. All the software is updated.

Recently I went away for 12 days and decided to take a tablet, not my laptop. This was the first time the laptop had not been turned on and charged for anymore than a day or two.

I came home and started up my laptop with the charger connected. When I looked at the little battery icon I saw the battery had discharged to 7%, which is about the level when the computer shuts down automatically if you were using it on battery power. For all I know, the battery could have discharged to 7% after just a few days.

Before leaving, the computer was shut down properly. There was no mistake. It was not put to sleep or on hibernate.

The battery is in good condition. It lasts about two and a half hours, which isn't long, but inline with factory specs.

A few questions for you techies about this.

What used the power while the computer was turned off?

When I go away again, should I take the battery out?

If I don't take the battery out and let the battery discharge again, would any damage be done to the battery or the laptop?

I have looked on the internet for some solutions. One was to take the battery out and hold down the on/off button. I've done this, but will not know if it has done anything until I go away again.

Another one was to test the battery and calibration. I did this an the battery came up fine.

Some other things discussed on the internet was about fast boot being turned on and updating the BIOS. I'm a bit weary of touching the BIOS.

I know laptop batteries discharge a little bit when not in use, but they shouldn't discharge to empty after 12 days, possible before.

Any thoughts from you guys?

[topt]

They can do.....

Asus Laptop had a charging issue, sent away to Asus to fix under warranty and now the battery is nearly always dead if not used for a couple of days. When this happened it was 2 years old.

Is it still under warranty?

[Pib]

I expect it's simple aging of the battery as it is 12 months old...and the battery is acutally probably a few months older than the laptop. As battery's age their "self-discharge" rate will increase...new batteries have little...as the battery ages it increases. That is, they will discharge even when not hooked into a circuit. All batteries do that. The quality of the battery will be a factor in how soon and how bad the self-discharge rate gets, but all quality levels will experience a self discharge rate.

But even with that being said, it may self discharge less if the battery is removed from the laptop as the load it sees changes slightly.

7% is not bad for a 12 day period of non use for a year old lithium-ion laptop battery. Don't worry about it.

And as FYI, ideally a lithium-ion battery such as your laptop battery will have the greatest life span if you only charge it to 90-95%. A 100% charge level places additional strain on the battery...speeds up chemical processes which shorten the battery's lifespan. Some laptops will come with a battery management utility where you can control the charge level when the laptop is primary plugged in all the time charging...that keeps it from charging to 100 but some lower level. In fact, I have one laptop (a Lenovo) with a Lenovo utility does that, but my other Lenovo laptop does not probaby due to the charging circuit being of a different design. This battery management utility allows you to turn on "Conservation Mode" which keeps/limits the battery charged at approx 60% when plugged in. If you need to go mobile with the laptop, turn off Conservation mode and it charges to 100% so you have a full charge. I have to turn the Conservation Mode on every time I turn on the laptop because intentionally it does not remember the setting. Also, you should not let a lithium-ion go into extended storage (non-use) with a 100% charge as it speeds up chemical processes that shorten battery lifespan. Battery manufacturers recommend a 40 to 60% charge level for extended storage/period of extended non-use to maximize battery lifespan.

See some more info on Self-discharge Rate...partial quote below talking a Lithium-ion battery self discharge. Note the possible 5% in the first 24 hours and 1 to 2 percent per month....adds up to the 7% your got over 12 days. But that don't mean all lithium-ion batteries discharge 5% over the first 24 hours...it varies based on design...batteries for tablets/smartphone will experience less self-discharge rate due to design but that is at expense of other battery design features.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/elevating_self_discharge

Li-ion self-discharges about 5 percent in the first 24 hours and then loses 1–2 percent per month; the protection circuit adds another 3 percent per month. A faulty separator can lead to elevated self-discharge that could develop into a current path, generating heat and, in an extreme case, initiate a thermal breakdown. In terms of self-discharge, lead acid is similar to Li-ion.

.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Pib

[retarius]

Your battery is knackered. Get a new one or better still buy a MacBook (I know Apple are a horrible company, but their computers are good). I bought an HP for the wife a few months back, the screen detaches to become a tablet. I regret the purchase and she won't use it. Windows 10 is a shambles, a dreadful operating system. I had to buy her a MacBook.

[tifino]

My current Asus i3 core laptop only gets an hour and a half runtime, from the time when the powerpack cord is removed; which wasn't much worse than my other Acer i5 laptop

ho-hummm...

...simply getting used to it...

[lostinisaan]

Your battery is knackered. Get a new one or better still buy a MacBook (I know Apple are a horrible company, but their computers are good). I bought an HP for the wife a few months back, the screen detaches to become a tablet. I regret the purchase and she won't use it. Windows 10 is a shambles, a dreadful operating system. I had to buy her a MacBook.

Why should the OP buy a new battery?

Discharge of batteries is normal and having 2 hours power is good.

Regarding your W 10 statement, a notebook can't be better than its user.

"You had to buy her a MacBook" sounds strange.

[jybkk]

Your battery is knackered. Get a new one or better still buy a MacBook (I know Apple are a horrible company, but their computers are good). I bought an HP for the wife a few months back, the screen detaches to become a tablet. I regret the purchase and she won't use it. Windows 10 is a shambles, a dreadful operating system. I had to buy her a MacBook.

Windows 10 is perfectly fine. Those who rant about it never come with factual reasons as to why it's so bad. And that's because they dislike the OS not because of its performance/features but because of the (admitedly very bad) way it was pushed to the users.

On another hand, buying a Macbook might not be the greatest idea if the user never had any experience with Mac OS. Pretty big/frustrating learning curve there.

Macbooks are an easy recommendation because they are indeed good laptops, just a bit overpriced.

But if you take a few minutes researching before buying, you'll find a lot of good laptops that even have more chance of having the combination of price/features you actually care about. usually these research end up telling you not to buy HP Kind of sad to see such an iconic brand so low now. Almost all of their PCs have issues. Amongst the most solid brands currently are Asus and Lenovo... but don't think too much about brand and research each model individually.

[Jai Normous]

They can do.....

Asus Laptop had a charging issue, sent away to Asus to fix under warranty and now the battery is nearly always dead if not used for a couple of days. When this happened it was 2 years old.

Is it still under warranty?

Not long out of warranty. I'm happy with the laptop and I would HP again. Just this issue when leaving the laptop off for while is strange.

Where is the charge going and why?

[Jai Normous]

I expect it's simple aging of the battery as it is 12 months old...and the battery is acutally probably a few months older than the laptop. As battery's age their "self-discharge" rate will increase...new batteries have little...as the battery ages it increases. That is, they will discharge even when not hooked into a circuit. All batteries do that. The quality of the battery will be a factor in how soon and how bad the self-discharge rate gets, but all quality levels will experience a self discharge rate.

But even with that being said, it may self discharge less if the battery is removed from the laptop as the load it sees changes slightly.

7% is not bad for a 12 day period of non use for a year old lithium-ion laptop battery. Don't worry about it.

And as FYI, ideally a lithium-ion battery such as your laptop battery will have the greatest life span if you only charge it to 90-95%. A 100% charge level places additional strain on the battery...speeds up chemical processes which shorten the battery's lifespan. Some laptops will come with a battery management utility where you can control the charge level when the laptop is primary plugged in all the time charging...that keeps it from charging to 100 but some lower level. In fact, I have one laptop (a Lenovo) with a Lenovo utility does that, but my other Lenovo laptop does not probaby due to the charging circuit being of a different design. This battery management utility allows you to turn on "Conservation Mode" which keeps/limits the battery charged at approx 60% when plugged in. If you need to go mobile with the laptop, turn off Conservation mode and it charges to 100% so you have a full charge. I have to turn the Conservation Mode on every time I turn on the laptop because intentionally it does not remember the setting. Also, you should not let a lithium-ion go into extended storage (non-use) with a 100% charge as it speeds up chemical processes that shorten battery lifespan. Battery manufacturers recommend a 40 to 60% charge level for extended storage/period of extended non-use to maximize battery lifespan.

See some more info on Self-discharge Rate...partial quote below talking a Lithium-ion battery self discharge. Note the possible 5% in the first 24 hours and 1 to 2 percent per month....adds up to the 7% your got over 12 days. But that don't mean all lithium-ion batteries discharge 5% over the first 24 hours...it varies based on design...batteries for tablets/smartphone will experience less self-discharge rate due to design but that is at expense of other battery design features.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/elevating_self_discharge

Li-ion self-discharges about 5 percent in the first 24 hours and then loses 1–2 percent per month; the protection circuit adds another 3 percent per month. A faulty separator can lead to elevated self-discharge that could develop into a current path, generating heat and, in an extreme case, initiate a thermal breakdown. In terms of self-discharge, lead acid is similar to Li-ion.

.

Pib, I appreciate your reply, but if you read my post again, you will see the battery discharged to 7%, so it discharged 93%, not discharged only 7%.

If it only discharged 7% and kept 93% charge I think that would be normal for some self discharge and I wouldn't have started this thread, but it discharged to empty when it was turned off.

Do any processes run even when a laptop is turned off?

[Jai Normous]

Your battery is knackered. Get a new one or better still buy a MacBook (I know Apple are a horrible company, but their computers are good). I bought an HP for the wife a few months back, the screen detaches to become a tablet. I regret the purchase and she won't use it. Windows 10 is a shambles, a dreadful operating system. I had to buy her a MacBook.

The battery is fine. It last about two and a half hours off the charger, which is inline with HP specs for this laptop, and allowing that it is around 1 year old.

From new, the battery lasted around 3 hours, so the battery is still pretty going, and it hasn't had a hard life.

[Jai Normous]

My current Asus i3 core laptop only gets an hour and a half runtime, from the time when the powerpack cord is removed; which wasn't much worse than my other Acer i5 laptop

ho-hummm...

...simply getting used to it...

Ok, but does it discharge to empty when it is turned off?

[Jai Normous]

Your battery is knackered. Get a new one or better still buy a MacBook (I know Apple are a horrible company, but their computers are good). I bought an HP for the wife a few months back, the screen detaches to become a tablet. I regret the purchase and she won't use it. Windows 10 is a shambles, a dreadful operating system. I had to buy her a MacBook.

Why should the OP buy a new battery?

Discharge of batteries is normal and having 2 hours power is good.

Regarding your W 10 statement, a notebook can't be better than its user.

"You had to buy her a MacBook" sounds strange.

Yes, I think the battery is fine. I checked it with some HP software and this also confirms the battery is ok.

I don't think I need to buy a new battery.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Jai Normous

[Pib]

Pib, I appreciate your reply, but if you read my post again, you will see the battery discharged to 7%, so it discharged 93%, not discharged only 7%.

If it only discharged 7% and kept 93% charge I think that would be normal for some self discharge and I wouldn't have started this thread, but it discharged to empty when it was turned off.

Do any processes run even when a laptop is turned off?

My bad...yea, you did say down to 7%. I think there is some setting regarding LAN wake-up that if set might use a little power on some computers. You might want to look into that.

http://www.howtogeek.com/70374/how-to-geek-explains-what-is-wake-on-lan-and-how-do-i-enable-it/

If not that, it's probably just the battery going bad with a high self-discharge rate which you've just never noticed till now. And just because it passes a laptop battery check which is really a very simple voltage level check and the fact it can still run a computer for a couple of hours does not mean the battery can not have a problem, such as a high self discharge rate.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Pib

[Generalchaos]

HP Software is complete junk! They cannot even make a decent download page to update your software / firmware, it is like looking through a forest trying to find a tree! Their website is junk!

[houlicha]

I wouldn't worry about it myself if it still recharges and is otherwise usable. If it bothers you, take it out of the computer and store it in the refrigerator before going away.

[Jdietz]

If you are happy with the battery performance, no need to change it.

Batteries do self-discharge, and a couple extra discharge / recharge cycles don't hurt.

If you want to look at a new battery anyway, now or in the future, advise stores nationwide can order most of them as aftermarket clones, at normally a decent price:

https://www.advice.co.th/search?keyword=battery

[Lannig]

Laptops discharging due to residual power consumption even when powered off are not uncommon.

At work, we have a small Lenovo X-something notebook we pass around for on-call duties (can't recall the exact model number) that is well-known for this. It seems to be due to the fingerprint reader that remains powered even if the computer is shut down. Its battery is drained out in less than 2 weeks even if not used at all, and it's been doing this since new.

A laptop is never 100% powered off unless you take the battery out.

The LAN (Ethernet) port remains under a low power state to support the wake-on-LAN features. Sometimes the USB ports remain powered as well, to support a keyboard with a power button.

Some models have settings in the BIOS you can use to turn this off. On others you can't (we couldn't on the said Lenovo laptop, no such setting in the BIOS).

Depending on the brand and model, the power drain can range from almost unnoticeable to a nuisance.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Lannig

[4evermaat]

Did op have anything plugged into usb port? That would have discharged it

[extercy]

There are a few scenarios that I could think of that might cause this IMHO,

Scenario 1: USB 3.0 with charging function (lightning sign) when laptop is turn off. But I do not think this will drain much in 12 days if nothing is attached to it.

Scenario 2: Power button was press. Default Windows for Power Button press is Hibernate. I normally configure all of mine to Shutdown.

Scenario 3 : Windows did not shutdown completely when screen was close. This is common as I have personally seen many users close/push the screen down after clicking Shutdown. This will cause the laptop to enter hibernation mode or sleep mode. Need to check setting for Lid Close action. You need to give some time for it to shutdown, whether it is optical drive or SSD.

It looks like it is most likely Scenario 3 as it enters Hibernate and since there is no activity for 12 days, the battery slowly drain until it hit the Critical Battery threshold where it permanently shut off.

I know that Windows 10, by default (Fast BootUp/StartUp On), it will look like it has Shutdown with the screen power off/goes black but if you look closely in the middle of the screen, the LCD is still active with a Gear spinning. I normally leave my laptop open, the screen up so no issues for me.

This is my best guess without looking at the laptop.

I have laptops with batteries in it for about a months and there was not much battery drain. My newest is an Asus, 2 years old. Both my Asus and MacBook Pro will not deplete its battery completely in a months.

Edited June 28, 2016 by extercy

[malt25]

Your battery is knackered. Get a new one or better still buy a MacBook (I know Apple are a horrible company, but their computers are good). I bought an HP for the wife a few months back, the screen detaches to become a tablet. I regret the purchase and she won't use it. Windows 10 is a shambles, a dreadful operating system. I had to buy her a MacBook.

Windows 10 is perfectly fine. Those who rant about it never come with factual reasons as to why it's so bad. And that's because they dislike the OS not because of its performance/features but because of the (admitedly very bad) way it was pushed to the users.

On another hand, buying a Macbook might not be the greatest idea if the user never had any experience with Mac OS. Pretty big/frustrating learning curve there.

Macbooks are an easy recommendation because they are indeed good laptops, just a bit overpriced.

But if you take a few minutes researching before buying, you'll find a lot of good laptops that even have more chance of having the combination of price/features you actually care about. usually these research end up telling you not to buy HP Kind of sad to see such an iconic brand so low now. Almost all of their PCs have issues. Amongst the most solid brands currently are Asus and Lenovo... but don't think too much about brand and research each model individually.

"Windows 10 is perfectly fine." You think ?

How long before you think they "might" fix the SD card reader problem ???

Sorry OP, for hijacking your post.

[Jai Normous]

Pib, I appreciate your reply, but if you read my post again, you will see the battery discharged to 7%, so it discharged 93%, not discharged only 7%.

If it only discharged 7% and kept 93% charge I think that would be normal for some self discharge and I wouldn't have started this thread, but it discharged to empty when it was turned off.

Do any processes run even when a laptop is turned off?

My bad...yea, you did say down to 7%. I think there is some setting regarding LAN wake-up that if set might use a little power on some computers. You might want to look into that.

http://www.howtogeek.com/70374/how-to-geek-explains-what-is-wake-on-lan-and-how-do-i-enable-it/

If not that, it's probably just the battery going bad with a high self-discharge rate which you've just never noticed till now. And just because it passes a laptop battery check which is really a very simple voltage level check and the fact it can still run a computer for a couple of hours does not mean the battery can not have a problem, such as a high self discharge rate.

Thanks for this info.

I could access this function through Windows. WoL (magic packets) was enabled. I disabled it. I can't find it in the BIOS but I will research more.

[swampdonkey]

Your battery is knackered. Get a new one or better still buy a MacBook (I know Apple are a horrible company, but their computers are good). I bought an HP for the wife a few months back, the screen detaches to become a tablet. I regret the purchase and she won't use it. Windows 10 is a shambles, a dreadful operating system. I had to buy her a MacBook.

Windows 10 is a great OS

Some people just do not know how to operate computers

[Jai Normous]

HP Software is complete junk! They cannot even make a decent download page to update your software / firmware, it is like looking through a forest trying to find a tree! Their website is junk!

I mainly bought this HP laptop for its build quality. It's built like a house brick. This one is all metal, no plastic lid and case. I normally travel with it, that's why I wanted a sturdy laptop that can take some knocks.

I am usually away for long periods of time, and use it everyday at home, so I have never had a chance to notice this issue.

[Jai Normous]

I wouldn't worry about it myself if it still recharges and is otherwise usable. If it bothers you, take it out of the computer and store it in the refrigerator before going away.

I occasionally fully discharge it when I am using it laying on the lounge. I believe the occasional full discharge is good for the battery. It doesn't look like it has hurt the battery or the laptop in anyway.

It was just a mystery to me where all that power could go in 12 days.

Store the battery in the fridge. Really? The laptop was stored at room temp in Asia, so pretty warm climate.

[Jai Normous]

Did op have anything plugged into usb port? That would have discharged it

Nothing plugged into a USB port. Everything disconnected and stored in its laptop sleeve to keep any dust off.

[Jai Normous]

There are a few scenarios that I could think of that might cause this IMHO,

Scenario 1: USB 3.0 with charging function (lightning sign) when laptop is turn off. But I do not think this will drain much in 12 days if nothing is attached to it.

Scenario 2: Power button was press. Default Windows for Power Button press is Hibernate. I normally configure all of mine to Shutdown.

Scenario 3 : Windows did not shutdown completely when screen was close. This is common as I have personally seen many users close/push the screen down after clicking Shutdown. This will cause the laptop to enter hibernation mode or sleep mode. Need to check setting for Lid Close action. You need to give some time for it to shutdown, whether it is optical drive or SSD.

It looks like it is most likely Scenario 3 as it enters Hibernate and since there is no activity for 12 days, the battery slowly drain until it hit the Critical Battery threshold where it permanently shut off.

I know that Windows 10, by default (Fast BootUp/StartUp On), it will look like it has Shutdown with the screen power off/goes black but if you look closely in the middle of the screen, the LCD is still active with a Gear spinning. I normally leave my laptop open, the screen up so no issues for me.

This is my best guess without looking at the laptop.

I have laptops with batteries in it for about a months and there was not much battery drain. My newest is an Asus, 2 years old. Both my Asus and MacBook Pro will not deplete its battery completely in a months.

This laptop does have an always on USB charging port so it can be used like a power bank. I suppose that would use some power but like you say I doubt it would use all the power in 12 days.

I'm a bit confused with your Scenarios 2 and 3. I shut the laptop down by clicking on the start button and then clicking on the shut down button. I wait for the screen to go black and all the lights to go off, then I close the lid, then I remove the charging cable and anything in a USB port. Are you saying that when I close the lid to put it in its cover that there could be a setting that the lid closed switch turns the laptop back on and into hibernate mode?

I didn't know closing the lid could override a laptop that was shut down. I will check this out and report back.

[Jai Normous]

Your battery is knackered. Get a new one or better still buy a MacBook (I know Apple are a horrible company, but their computers are good). I bought an HP for the wife a few months back, the screen detaches to become a tablet. I regret the purchase and she won't use it. Windows 10 is a shambles, a dreadful operating system. I had to buy her a MacBook.

Windows 10 is perfectly fine. Those who rant about it never come with factual reasons as to why it's so bad. And that's because they dislike the OS not because of its performance/features but because of the (admitedly very bad) way it was pushed to the users.

On another hand, buying a Macbook might not be the greatest idea if the user never had any experience with Mac OS. Pretty big/frustrating learning curve there.

Macbooks are an easy recommendation because they are indeed good laptops, just a bit overpriced.

But if you take a few minutes researching before buying, you'll find a lot of good laptops that even have more chance of having the combination of price/features you actually care about. usually these research end up telling you not to buy HP Kind of sad to see such an iconic brand so low now. Almost all of their PCs have issues. Amongst the most solid brands currently are Asus and Lenovo... but don't think too much about brand and research each model individually.

"Windows 10 is perfectly fine." You think ?

How long before you think they "might" fix the SD card reader problem ???

Sorry OP, for hijacking your post.

Ok, without getting into the is Windows 10 good or bad debate, I will quickly say that after getting completely shafted by Windows Vista installed from factory on a high end machine, I vowed to always wait for either Service Pack 1 to be released or the "point 1" (.1) to be released.

It happened with Windows 7 with Service Pack 1 being released. It happened with Windows 8 with Windows 8.1 being released.

I'll wait for Windows 10 Service Pack 1 or Windows 10.1 or Windows 11 before I change my OS and I am not concerned about the free Windows 10 before the 29th July. Windows 7 will still be supported until 2020 so I am in no hurry.

I didn't even jump to Windows 8.1 because Windows 7 meets my needs and Windows 8 and 8.1 were not around that long anyway.

Now, back to this battery issue.

[Pib]

I'll wait for Windows 10 Service Pack 1 or Windows 10.1 or Windows 11 before I change my OS and I am not concerned about the free Windows 10 before the 29th July. Windows 7 will still be supported until 2020 so I am in no hurry.

That basically happened back in Nov 15 when the initial public release of 10.0.10240 on 29 Jul 15 was upgraded to 10.0.10586 also referred to as the November Upgrade or -1511....it was like a 3GB sized update. Also after that time the number weekly/biweekly updates greatly slowed down as that Nov upgrade fixed a lot of the issues some people were experiencing. MS is not using "Service Pack" title releases with Win 10.

[extercy]

There are a few scenarios that I could think of that might cause this IMHO,

Scenario 1: USB 3.0 with charging function (lightning sign) when laptop is turn off. But I do not think this will drain much in 12 days if nothing is attached to it.

Scenario 2: Power button was press. Default Windows for Power Button press is Hibernate. I normally configure all of mine to Shutdown.

Scenario 3 : Windows did not shutdown completely when screen was close. This is common as I have personally seen many users close/push the screen down after clicking Shutdown. This will cause the laptop to enter hibernation mode or sleep mode. Need to check setting for Lid Close action. You need to give some time for it to shutdown, whether it is optical drive or SSD.

It looks like it is most likely Scenario 3 as it enters Hibernate and since there is no activity for 12 days, the battery slowly drain until it hit the Critical Battery threshold where it permanently shut off.

I know that Windows 10, by default (Fast BootUp/StartUp On), it will look like it has Shutdown with the screen power off/goes black but if you look closely in the middle of the screen, the LCD is still active with a Gear spinning. I normally leave my laptop open, the screen up so no issues for me.

This is my best guess without looking at the laptop.

I have laptops with batteries in it for about a months and there was not much battery drain. My newest is an Asus, 2 years old. Both my Asus and MacBook Pro will not deplete its battery completely in a months.

This laptop does have an always on USB charging port so it can be used like a power bank. I suppose that would use some power but like you say I doubt it would use all the power in 12 days.

I'm a bit confused with your Scenarios 2 and 3. I shut the laptop down by clicking on the start button and then clicking on the shut down button. I wait for the screen to go black and all the lights to go off, then I close the lid, then I remove the charging cable and anything in a USB port. Are you saying that when I close the lid to put it in its cover that there could be a setting that the lid closed switch turns the laptop back on and into hibernate mode?

I didn't know closing the lid could override a laptop that was shut down. I will check this out and report back.

What you did was good and correct .. waiting for all the lights to go off after the screen goes black. Hmm .. I do not know what could cause the drain.

Maybe check the BIOS if you have some power management features that are turn on like Schedule daily turn on and off. I know some laptops have this in the BIOS.

Or check HP software for power management.. there might be something there.

[extercy]

You do not need to worry about Fast Boot since you are on Windows 7. Fast boot is on Windows 8 and above.

From a quick search on the net, it looks like a BIOS issue/corruption. You have to be brave and update it I guess.

Modern BIOS upgrade is so easy now compared to a decade ago. Just make sure you get the correct BIOS for your model.