Thai navy seeks approval to buy first submarines in 65 years

[rooster59]

Thai navy seeks approval to buy first submarines in 65 years

BANGKOK (AP) — Thailand's navy will seek Cabinet approval to purchase its first submarines in 65 years, the country's defense minister said Friday.

Prawit Wongsuwan, who is also deputy prime minister, said the submarines will cost 36 billion baht ($1 billion) in total, with payments to be made over 10 years. He said the first of the Chinese-made Yuan class S26T submarines will be purchased out of the 2017 budget.

Thailand's military seized power in a May 2014 coup. The purchase of such a major weapons system from China has political as well as defense ramifications because the ruling junta has sought closer relations with China to balance traditional close ties with the United States, which has been critical of Thailand's turn away from democracy.

The navy has been seeking to buy submarines for almost a decade, having decommissioned its last subs in 1951. In recent years, it has also considered buying submarines from Germany or South Korea. A 540 million baht ($15 million) submarine base and training center was inaugurated in July 2014.

When the navy revived its plan last year, it delayed submitting it to the Cabinet after widespread criticism that it would be wasteful, and that the Gulf of Thailand is too shallow for submarines to operate efficiently.

Prawit said submarines would be useful because Thailand has resources in the Andaman Sea to protect and because neighboring countries are also acquiring them.

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-07-02

[Kiwiken]

It will be like their aircraft carrier. They will not be able to afford torpedoes. So they will fire Thai ladies out the tubes to entice their enemies to surrender. Probably though the boat will sink when the open a hatch to let in fresh air while submerged

[jaltsc]

"Thailand's navy will seek Cabinet approval to purchase its first submarines in 65 years, the country's defense minister said Friday."

With all that extra space to hide fishing industry slaves during inspections, Thailand should be off the watch list in no time.

Edited July 2, 2016 by jaltsc

[Chang_paarp]

When the navy revived its plan last year, it delayed submitting it to the Cabinet after widespread criticism that it would be wasteful, and that the Gulf of Thailand is too shallow for submarines to operate efficiently.

Prawit said submarines would be useful because Thailand has resources in the Andaman Sea to protect and because neighboring countries are also acquiring them.

Don't learn do they. The biggest for and against reasons are in these 2 paragraphs. Neighbouring countries border on deep oceans making their choice legitimate. Unfortunately the loss of face argument might win this time round.

[robblok]

Sure the neighboring countries have deep water, and I am against this but my country sits on the North sea, and our territorial waters are shallow still we have subs. So shallow water alone is not enough not to have them. I do think that the Thai navy could better invest the money elsewhere. But i guess there are big cheques going the way of those that decide to buy from China.

[clockman]

Pigs at the trough again!

[ezzra]

Other news sources says that the navy is seeking to buy 3 of those subs from China, I hear they come

cheaper by the dozen, can Thailand BE any deeper in China's bosoms than what they're already?

can they GET any cozier with the Chinese this and Chinese that? leaving Thailand a complete

depended on China's whims and wishes?.....

Edited July 2, 2016 by ezzra

[robblok]

Other news sources says that the navy is seeking to buy 3 of those subs from China, I hear they come

cheaper by the dozen, can Thailand BE any deeper in China's bosoms than what they're already?

can they GET any cozier with the Chinese this and Chinese that? leaving Thailand a complete

depended on China's whims and wishes?.....

The US had its change but alienated Thailand.. besides either it is the US or China... both will only do what is best for themselves. To think that one is better than the other is crazy. (Unless your an American of course).

[The stuttering parrot]

36 billion baht !

Just imagine if was thrown into healt, education etc how many people would actually benefit .

But no here we have an illegal military regime tightening the noose on its own people while squandering away money on useless projects. With no mandate and obviously no one even near qualified to make important decisions when it comes to the big picture.

[robblok]

36 billion baht !

Just imagine if was thrown into healt, education etc how many people would actually benefit .

But no here we have an illegal military regime tightening the noose on its own people while squandering away money on useless projects. With no mandate and obviously no one even near qualified to make important decisions when it comes to the big picture.

Yes.. and how about the 500 billion from the rice program ? (just to put it in perspective)

Sure its wasteful. the 500 billion was just criminal.

[jamesbrock]

Prawit said submarines would be useful because Thailand has resources in the Andaman Sea to protect...

Oh, that must be why they spent 540 million baht building the submarine base in Sattahip...

Edited July 2, 2016 by jamesbrock

[HenryB]

Other news sources says that the navy is seeking to buy 3 of those subs from China, I hear they come

cheaper by the dozen, can Thailand BE any deeper in China's bosoms than what they're already?

can they GET any cozier with the Chinese this and Chinese that? leaving Thailand a complete

depended on China's whims and wishes?.....

The US had its change but alienated Thailand.. besides either it is the US or China... both will only do what is best for themselves. To think that one is better than the other is crazy. (Unless your an American of course).

The Americans should show goodwill and paid for them

Than you will nice Americans

[Thailand]

How do you sink a Thai submarine?

Put it in water!

[klauskunkel]

My advice to the government:

make sure they are not fake submarines, then buy them after you made sure they are not fake submarines. That means you test them out, extensively. However, if they are fake, do not buy them. If they are fake and you bought them anyway, I will post "I told you so" in all-caps!

[MZurf]

Other news sources says that the navy is seeking to buy 3 of those subs from China, I hear they come

cheaper by the dozen, can Thailand BE any deeper in China's bosoms than what they're already?

can they GET any cozier with the Chinese this and Chinese that? leaving Thailand a complete

depended on China's whims and wishes?.....

The US had its change but alienated Thailand.. besides either it is the US or China... both will only do what is best for themselves. To think that one is better than the other is crazy. (Unless your an American of course).

"To think that one is better than the other is crazy."

No. To say that the US is no better than China is crazy speak by someone brought up in a democracy.

[worgeordie]

Does this have anything to do with a report by the Government,

that reserves had just increased by Billions of THB, a week or

two ago,now the Navy will not take the excuse there's no money

for this.we want the Subs........now!

regards Worgeordie

[willyumiii]

Again?

Great!

Here comes another year of stupid sarcastic jokes and comments from Thai Visa wanabe comedians..again.

Some are still making bad jokes about the last time they wanted submarines!

[Franky Bear]

Chinese Engineering is terrible.
Thais are terrible mechanics.

Yeah, this will do a lot od sea time.

[willyumiii]

Other news sources says that the navy is seeking to buy 3 of those subs from China, I hear they come

cheaper by the dozen, can Thailand BE any deeper in China's bosoms than what they're already?

can they GET any cozier with the Chinese this and Chinese that? leaving Thailand a complete

depended on China's whims and wishes?.....

The US had its change but alienated Thailand.. besides either it is the US or China... both will only do what is best for themselves. To think that one is better than the other is crazy. (Unless your an American of course).

"To think that one is better than the other is crazy."

No. To say that the US is no better than China is crazy speak by someone brought up in a democracy.

" The US had its change but alienated Thailand.."

​Well ezzera, if you recall Obama's campaign slogan was " The Change We Need!"

[DrTuner]

1B, of which 990M goes to our new BFFs back in motherland and 10M for the plastic copies that go up and down with alca seltzer. Or maybe we'll just need the periscopes to spook illegal fishermen with, make it 100k.

[bobmac10]

Sure the neighboring countries have deep water, and I am against this but my country sits on the North sea, and our territorial waters are shallow still we have subs. So shallow water alone is not enough not to have them. I do think that the Thai navy could better invest the money elsewhere. But i guess there are big cheques going the way of those that decide to buy from China.

You never say much in criticism of this Junta Robblok, usually just throw in red herrings.

However you are right here, this is just an opportunity for the Junta to make squillions for all involved in the purchase.

A civilian government would not allow such a stupid purchase, after all, Thailand has no need for submarines.

The statement that the Navy seeks permission from the government (Military Government) to buy the submarines is ridiculous.

Of course they will say yes, it's a done deal, and all will share in the bounty.

Whether the subs actually become operational is irrelevant, the money will change hands and the big boys will become richer.

Take a trip down the river in Bangkok and see all the navy ships sitting and rusting away, dozens and dozens of warships not operational.

Why?

Because they don't have the money to make them operational, it's all being spent elsewhere on non operational "items".

No transparency and never will be any while this Junta is in control.

[bobmac10]

Other news sources says that the navy is seeking to buy 3 of those subs from China, I hear they come

cheaper by the dozen, can Thailand BE any deeper in China's bosoms than what they're already?

can they GET any cozier with the Chinese this and Chinese that? leaving Thailand a complete

depended on China's whims and wishes?.....

The US had its change but alienated Thailand.. besides either it is the US or China... both will only do what is best for themselves. To think that one is better than the other is crazy. (Unless your an American of course).

The US hasn't alienated Thailand at all.

It's only put the the illegal military government on notice that they are not swallowing all their bullsh*t. The way you have.

As soon as the people throw out these morons and get back to a democracy you will see the US back in a big way.

And the people, I mean the millions of ordinary Thais, have plenty of respect for the USA, unlike their feelings for the Chinese.

[Srikcir]

Other news sources says that the navy is seeking to buy 3 of those subs from China, I hear they come

cheaper by the dozen, can Thailand BE any deeper in China's bosoms than what they're already?

can they GET any cozier with the Chinese this and Chinese that? leaving Thailand a complete

depended on China's whims and wishes?.....

The US had its change but alienated Thailand.. besides either it is the US or China... both will only do what is best for themselves. To think that one is better than the other is crazy. (Unless your an American of course).

it is either the US or China

Not really. Countries offering submarines suitable to Thailand's needs might also include Australia, the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Russia, Italy and South Korea. There has been no reports of the RTM contacting any countries other than China for sub purchases. That implies that its purchase from China goes beyond mere matter of economics.

[smutcakes]

Will the military's amnesty in the Constitution cover all the corruption, negligence and wasted monies in all these procurement projects?

[tuanku]

The logic probably goes something like this,

• If I purchase something I can divert a proportion of the price into my own bank account
• If that something is really expensive, I get more money.
• My mate Prayuth is in charge for the foreseeable future so I don't really need work hard to justify my purchase and am unlikely to be answerable for it in the foreseeable future if it all goes pear shaped.
• Its the Navy's turn at the trough, if I don't spend the money on something boaty then it will be used to buy airplanes or tanks.
• I already benefited from the building of the submarine base so why not some submarines to go with it?
• If I buy these submarines from China, I can get them on-line from AliBaba.com They do a really good deal on bulk purchases and there is free delivery.
• Also if I buy from China, they really understand corruption so there is no need to explain it all to them, Germans etc. can be really dense about this.
• We are not at war with any other country, only with ourselves, so the submarines don't really need to work very well, if at all.
• If we keep them at Sattahip they won't have to go deep and they can run on the surface most of the time, or just be parked up next to the aircraft carrier.
• I am too old and too fat to ever need to go in a submarine myself, so that also means their reliability is unimportant.
• With the flooding in Bangkok only likely to get worse in the future, the wife can use the submarines for the school run when they are not required by the Navy.

Unassailable Thainess and logic.

[Srikcir]

the submarines will cost 36 billion baht ($1 billion) in total, with payments to be made over 10 years.

This implies seller financing that will obligate Thailand for debt service for the next 10 years. Great for China's GDP growth but a diversion of financial resources for Thailand's own economic growth. The Prayut government is relying in large part on government spending on infrastructure development to boost economic growth. But with this purchase he is assuring future elected Thai governments will have financial limitations on new projects. They will be held to a higher standard of fiscal responsibility than any military government.

The Prayut government instead could finance the purchase with sale of Thai treasury bonds. But it already submitted its budget to the NLA for Fiscal Year 2017. The proposed FY 2017 budget that now already includes allegedly a deficit of 390 billion baht. Even before the next fiscal year has begun, the Prayut government is already proposing an substantial off-budget purchase.

[Kiwiken]

Perhaps to save wear and tear and salt damage to their new Submarine the Thai Navy will use it for defence along the Thai/Lao, Thai Cambodia border. Cunning plan Baldrick.

[waldroj]

"...Prawit said submarines would be useful because Thailand has resources in the Andaman Sea to protect and because neighbouring countries are also acquiring them..." - sounds like kid's peer pressure for the latest iPhone!

But, Prawit's reasons are no different now as they were a year ago when he announced that the navy’s submarine purchasing plan would “not be submitted to the cabinet ... pending thorough study.” (http://thediplomat.com/2015/07/is-chinas-new-submarine-deal-with-thailand-now-in-peril/).

Despite the Prawit doublespeak, the reality for the Thai navy then (as noted in this post) was that its plan was torpedoed "... after widespread criticism that it would be wasteful ..."

Since then, Thailand has endured crippling drought, its economy is suffering (especially its exports), foreign-investors have deserted it, and it is under international pressure to clean up its aviation and fishing industries, and counter allegations that its not doing enough to address human trafficking - more than enough reason to deep-six this purchase plan and use the funds elsewhere.

It's almost unbelievable that this should resurface again, and that the junta appears to be prepared to acquiesce to it.

Their justification (as reported elsewhere), is that 12-billion-baht for each submarine was not high when financed through a 10-year tied budget.

If the navy does get their way (and their subs), they had better ensure that they don't default on the payments, less the Chinese come and repossess their toys.

[sanukjim]

Thailand has sent some Navy officers to New London Sub School in the US. Some that were sent are now either retired or in very high positions making there schooling useless. I doubt that if they do buy a sub if it will ever have a crew consisting of entirely of Thais.When buying a sub A country also has included in the contract the use of qualified submarine trainers and commanders on loan from said country.It would be a good thing for the Thai Navy because lets say that the price is said to be 12 billion baht,that means Thailand is actually getting them for about 6 billion baht and the other 6 billion will be shared with the many naval and higher ups in the government.The sub will (under foreign command) go out on some advertised runs with media on board for effect..It may make a few runs then (because it cost money to operate and the danger of a local commander loosing it) rest in port at dock side for show.

[Srikcir]

36 billion baht !

Just imagine if was thrown into healt, education etc how many people would actually benefit .

But no here we have an illegal military regime tightening the noose on its own people while squandering away money on useless projects. With no mandate and obviously no one even near qualified to make important decisions when it comes to the big picture.

Yes.. and how about the 500 billion from the rice program ? (just to put it in perspective)

Sure its wasteful. the 500 billion was just criminal.

Yes, how about an off-topic comment to divert focus from the Prayut government's fiscal matters?

To put it into perspective as you say, didn't the Prayut government borrow by sale of 10-year Treasury bonds to payoff Yingluck's rice-pledge purchases from rice farmers with the rice farmers as the recipients? From a farmer's viewpoint those disbursements wouldn't seem very wasteful. Whether criminal is once again off-topic.