Brit dies in Bangkok hospital after being stranded for 2 month while family struggled to pay bill

[Thomas Hannah]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Its also dangerous to have insurance in thailand.If you have a headache.They will operate on your brain,If they think it will make money.YOU THINK IM JOKING ,IM NOT ,IVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.many many times The guy who was told that he had cancer of the nose.What a mess they made to him,He came home to try to get his nose repaired ,Doctor told him that he never had cancer.There are thousands of these true stories.a freind of mine had a dizzy spell a couple of weeks ago.They charged him over 100 pounds.Told him that he will then have to stay in overnight but it will cost him.1000 pounds more.He went back to his hotel instead.He was fine ,no problems.Dont tell them you have insurance.unless its very serious.BE WARNED

[tonray]

>>She does not look like a person who led a healthy lifestyle from the posted photo. <<

You can tell her life style from a photo ?

At 51 years of age she:

Was clearly overweight

Likely Type ii Diabetic

Bags under her eyes indicate chronic lack of sleep or substance abuse (tobacco/alcohol/etc)

These are statistical probabilities based upon her age and appearance.

Are you saying she looks like the "picture of health" and was just finishing off a p90X workout session ?

[Doc46]

Why/what did she die of ? Neglect in Hospital/starvation? Wrong Treatment? Where was her Travel Insurance?A lot of Questions to be Answered Before one can blame the Hospital,,,,Self inflicted Misery from what I can see,,,,

[IMA_FARANG]

One of the few things we did right over the last few years....despite the Republican party and those like Donald Trump.

Many states, including my state of Massachusetts, passed a law t a few years ago that allows any adult to choose if they do not want to be kept alive in a hospital when the Doctors involved admit there is no reasonable chance that there condition will improve if they are maintained on life support.

In Massachusetts, it is called a "Living Will", and it allows a person to decide before they go into hospital to refuse the doctors the right to extend their life by artificial means.(as a Heart Lung Machine)

When my father died he was totally paralyzed for several weeks due to a stroke, and unable to speak or move anything but the fingers of his left hand.

My father was a WWII vet, and that gave him the right to be in a VA hospital.

He died 1 day short of his 80th birthday. My father had designated my brother as his representative to make the decision to turn of life support.....and the entire family decided that since my farther had previously made that decision, we would reluctantly honor his choice.

As Dad told us all, "Damn it, I don't want to lie around like a vegetable, let me go when it's my time".

Not an easy decision for all of us, especially my brother, but Dad had made hi wishes clear, and we had to do what he asked.

It should be the right of any intelligent human being to choose to die if he or she can not be kept alive without artificial means (by a machine).

Of course, that may not apply to Donald Trump and his supporters; as they may not qualify as intelligent human beings.

Edited July 20, 2016 by IMA_FARANG

[balo]

The public hospitals here will in many cases give the same type of life support , if I were related to her I would have suggested a move to a public hospital after 1 or 2 weeks . But tourists without local connections would not have understood how things work here and trust the doctors without checking for other options.

[kingalfred]

Need to have a law that ALL visitors to Thailand have health insurance!

[12DrinkMore]

Actually, no. My experience is that the private hospitals on Samui go out of their way to void insurance for faster payment,

Well you'd be wrong.

I had a motorcycle rental business here for a long time, and spoke to quite a few customers who have a different opinion to yours. Alcohol blood tests were regularly carried out and insurance denied - even for pillion passengers. Passports were demanded and held until full payment.

I find that 100% reasonable.

Why should any insurance company carry the liability of a drunk on a motorcycle, and probably inexperienced ride as well?

The passenger would have know that alcohol was involved.

[Andrew65]

As I understand it, so long as one can prove 3 months of residency (utility bill etc), former Brit expats can use the service on their return.

Expats from UK, who paid in N.I. for years, who return home for a holiday, are liable for all medical costs, I believe ?

So medical insurance would have to be purchased by them, despite the thousands paid in over their working lives.

[Suradit69]

I wonder if the hospital will hang onto the body until the bill is paid? At least bringing the ashes home will be cheaper than an air ambulance.

that is probably what will happen and the will charge daily.

Total BS. Some posters really have warped imaginations.

[Suradit69]

RIP and condoleances to the family - as well a bitchslap back to farangistan for each <deleted> who took on this thread as an avenue to insult the deceased. Grow the <deleted> up.

Yes, the TV protocol is to be serious when a farang dies and make jokes when it's a Thai. Try to get with the program.

[silent]

Approximately 28,000 baht/day bill run up.

It makes the idea of compulsory health insurance look quite sensible.

the hospitals would love that!

Actually, no. My experience is that the private hospitals on Samui go out of their way to void insurance for faster payment,

Or as in my experience "unwittingly" try and double-dip by threatening the girlfriend/spouse when her "frangie friend" returned to his home country for a few months..(I'm still trying to collect the bill I submitted to the hospital for the international investigation with my insurance company and subsequent training that had to be done for the manager and her "new specialist staff" in the collection department........... so they'd stop scaring my wife about further action if she didn't pay up.

[Andrew65]

An old expat friend, now spending most of his time in the UK, formerly worked in the ME & lived in Thailand, assures me that he was paying £8,000 per-annum for health insurance, that's a chunk of change, especially for someone from a country with a public health service/unused to paying health insurance.

He did recently have a heart valve replaced in the UK.

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Don't know her situation but most insurance doesn't cover existing conditions. Many people get the shaft due to this.

I was going to say that all of the insurance packages I have looked into barely cover anything, and when they do they often only care for a small % of the entire bill.

[jippytum]

There is no suggestion this unfortunate lady died from poor treatment .The hospital did their best and kept her on life support for two months.

Intensive care is costly in any country .It is not unreasonable the hospital should receive financial compensation .

[luckyman]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Exactly my friend and perhaps an idea to put up some posters with a copy of this story on each immigration booth at bkk airport as a warning.

[halloween]

Actually, no. My experience is that the private hospitals on Samui go out of their way to void insurance for faster payment,

Well you'd be wrong.

I had a motorcycle rental business here for a long time, and spoke to quite a few customers who have a different opinion to yours. Alcohol blood tests were regularly carried out and insurance denied - even for pillion passengers. Passports were demanded and held until full payment.

I find that 100% reasonable.

Why should any insurance company carry the liability of a drunk on a motorcycle, and probably inexperienced ride as well?

The passenger would have know that alcohol was involved.

You might change your tune if you have a few drinks and catch a motorcycle taxi home. But it has nothing to do with the insurance coverage, but with the hospital being reluctant to wait for payment, and claiming the policy is void whether it actually is or not.

[JackieMager]

I'm not sure I understand. Does the hospital do nothing allowing the patient to die as they have no money to pay to be cured.

[Global Guy]

There really needs to be an international investigation into foreigners treatment in Thai hospitals.

Basically how much does their ability to pay affect their chances of survival?

I can address this from personal experience. I had insurance as well. But I found out it was not enough.

My girlfriend and I were hit by a taxi when we were riding my motorcycle. I was busted up from head to toe. I had internal bleeding, multiple fractures in my face, jaw, pelvis, and was unconscious in ICU. My Thai gf was banged up and they wanted to admit her but she refused because she knew that if she did, there would be no one to coordinate the insurance payment for me. She told me straight up that I'm a foreigner and the hospital would have let me bleed to death if payment was not arranged.

So, she contacted my insurance, also negotiated with the taxi company insurance, and still the hospital wanted more money so she had to take money out of her bank account and give them some cash. Only then did they authorize the first round of life saving surgeries. This all to place within the 1st 24 hours of my admission.

After they did the initial surgeries and I was recovering in a step down unit, I was then conscious but needed some additional surgeries. Someone came to my room with a clipboard and explained how much more money we had to come up with or they wouldn't do this next round of surgeries.

There is more to this drama but you get the point. I've also been in hospital two other times, once for food poisoning and once for an extreme fever. Both times, in ER, after seeing the doctor I was visited by someone from their billing department. The first time, a girl said she wanted 25,000 baht to admit me to inpatient. I refused, saying I could be treated in ER and d/c from there. She got all pissed off, told the staff at the nursing station, and they immediately told me they were d/c me. I said I was still sick, I needed more meds (I was on an IV at the time), but they kept pushing for me to leave. I was fine with paying my bill for the ER visit but they didn't care.

After about an hour of them harassing me, I finally agreed to leave but I was weak and could barely stand. They wheeled me to the door and walked me out.

I walked about 20 feet and collapsed in front of the hospital. I was too weak to stand Numerous Thai staff walked by and did nothing. Finally a Thai women helped get me back inside with another staff member who got a wheel chair.

I had another incident where the same financial thing happened and this time I agreed to go inpatient and pay.

The bottom line is yes, if you are a foreigner, they will watch you die if you cannot make payment. In my accident, if not for my gf, I would be dead right now. Now I have a larger insurance policy as well.

Don't role the dice in Thailand. My accident wasn't my fault and the taxi driver got arrested for it. But he refused to give any money after numerous attempts by the court and the police. I met with four different lawyers to try and recover money from the taxi company. All four tried to scam me for money so I gave up on that.

You will be either a passenger in a car, a driver, a rider on a motorbike, or walking and people completely disregard the value of life when they get behind the wheel here so your health is at the mercy of some pretty scary people who really don't care if they kill you.

This is not unusual for them to insist on payment up front, it is their policy. I lived through it, I know. I almost died because of it.

[AGareth2]

I wonder if the hospital will hang onto the body until the bill is paid? At least bringing the ashes home will be cheaper than an air ambulance.

An absolutely stupid comment.

not really

experienced similar

some private hospitals can be cruel

[sitti]

If this had happened in the US, 2 months worth of medical bills with costs of life support would easily cost them 6-figure in US dollars. Thailand isn't a nanny state, they are not structured to charge high income taxes/VATs to provide free hospitals. If they make one exception today, there will be bunch of tourists try to abuse it tomorrow. There haven already been plenty of people who racked up hospital bills and left the country without paying. Public hospitals do provide free medical cares to very low income or no income Thai citizen, but that shouldn't be taken advantage by foreigners.

[swerver]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Thailand should do with tourists the same as it does with Uninsured Motorists in Thailand. Anyone arriving in Thailand should be charged same as with Uninsured Motorist 600 Baht to cover medical costs (Drs. and Hospitals). Thailand now leaves it up to the irresponsible foreigners arriving to have insurance, as a matter of fact they're not even asked if they have medical insurance.

Waiting to see Thailand institutes this Uninsured Tourists Medical Insurance. Being Thailand not holding my breath.

Thailand has another medical cost problem with foreigners living in Thailand who through high old age Insurance Companies refuse to insure. In this case Thailand on average is not holding the bill because these old age foreigners usually have property in Thailand - BUT NOT ALL OF THEM. When out shopping you can see more and more old age (and sometimes not so old age) foreigners that look like they are not too well off financial. Of course looks can be deceiving.

[dopenhagen]

traveling without insurance is a calculated risk, it's impossible to even book a flight now with most airlines without being warned about this and every travel agent will make an effort to sell you one, so there is no way I will buy the assumption that this lady traveled unaware that she needed it, particularly given her condition at the time of departure... and off course Thailand or any country's healthcare, medical and emergency services be stuck with the bill of mischievous travelers who gamble the risk of needing an insurance with the cost of getting one...

you lay in the bed you make yourself, I feel sorry for the remaining sisters having to live with the partial guilt that they should have stopped her from gambling on the insurance and eventually not having the means to bail her out...

if you can't get insured for travels to South East Asia, you have to settle for less exotic destinations, thats just life, people have to deal with it, it's not a ban on travel, you can still travel anywhere the laws allow you, but it will be at your own risk, just like this lady, who unfortunately ended up with the short string...

[paulbj2]

Thailand does have government health insurance arrangements for people who actually live and work here. Why not extend that to tourists who don't have their own insurance for x Baht a day. Anyone entering the country without proof of medical insurance simply pays at the airport on a per day basis for the duration of their holiday. OK, it'll only pay for relatively cheap government hospitals not 5 star private clinics but it fixes the problem to everyone's satisfaction. Another advantage is that state healthcare providers don't reject claims from people who got injured whilst drunk or doing dangerous pursuits excluded from the policy or had accidents on motorbikes that they didn't have a specific license to ride in the way that many insurers do.

Countries that have a healthcare system predicated on the "government acts as private healthcare insurer" paradigm, usually cover their subscribers all over the world anyway. That is the case with Luxembourg, where I am resident. I needed hospital treatment a couple of times when visiting Thailand. I paid the bills out my own funds (not a huge sum of money) and submitted the bills to the "Caisse de Maladie", the department who deal with healthcare, when I returned home to Luxembourg. No problem, the full amount I had paid in Thailand was refunded a month or so later. People who are in such a system only need extra insurance when visiting countries where the healthcare is ludicrously expensive such as the US as the Luxembourg national insurer will only pay up to the maximum fee applicable for the same treatment in Luxembourg. A colleague of mine had the misfortune to have appendicitis, a burst appendix and peritonitis that nearly killed her, whilst holidaying with her family in the US. The state healthcare provider in Luxembourg picked up the bill for about 30% of the cost and the free travel insurance that came with her car insurance picked up the bill for the rest.

Alternatively, perhaps the British NHS would like to pick up the bill for its citizens in the same way that Luxembourg does.

[spermwhale]

I wonder if the hospital will hang onto the body until the bill is paid? At least bringing the ashes home will be cheaper than an air ambulance.

If you click through to the article you'll find out that that is EXACTLY what is happening.

"And now her family are facing the devastating prospect that they might not even be able to bring her body home – with medics holding her to ransom until the £36k bill is paid."

[spermwhale]

RIP . Don't blame Thailand for this.

Not blaming Thailand, per se. but the hospital won't even release her body until the bill is paid.

Now that is such a THAI way of thinking. YOu can't hold anyone else responsible for those bills except the person who incurred them. Her family should not have to pay the bills to get the body.

That's DISGUSTING but not Surprising considering the utter greed and total disregard for common decency here.

[spermwhale]

I wonder if the hospital will hang onto the body until the bill is paid? At least bringing the ashes home will be cheaper than an air ambulance.

An absolutely stupid comment.

not really

experienced similar

some private hospitals can be cruel

Read the article: "And now her family are facing the devastating prospect that they might not even be able to bring her body home – with medics holding her to ransom until the £36k bill is paid."

[tonray]

Thailand does have government health insurance arrangements for people who actually live and work here.

Even if you live and work here legally, your employer is not legally required to offer you access to these plans.

[chrissables]

My Post replied $$$$$$

Still on that bar stool??

To bad these peasants couldn't

Get £36K together.

You really are an uncaring and obnoxious person.

[mrmicbkktxl]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Because they make megmuhu money with the tourists,so a bit help in cases like that instead of being greedy would be the

appropriate thing to do.I wonder what heartless guy you are,the term compassion is probably unknown for you.

[Chapelroad]

As I understand it, so long as one can prove 3 months of residency (utility bill etc), former Brit expats can use the service on their return.

Expats from UK, who paid in N.I. for years, who return home for a holiday, are liable for all medical costs, I believe ?

So medical insurance would have to be purchased by them, despite the thousands paid in over their working lives.

I have not been back for well over a decade, so how can I prove 3 months residency ?

When there, I paid my full dues, which is a hell of a lot more than certain people receiving treatment there now ever will pay.

[dageurreotype]

RIP . Don't blame Thailand for this.

The family is quite happy to:

"But Kathryns sister Elizabeth Phillips said the Thai medics decision to keep her sibling alive, due to their customs and beliefs, has lead to huge medical bills being racked up."

(1) Would a British hospital have pulled the plug sooner? I very much doubt it.

(2) Why didn't they move her to a cheaper hospital if the bills were a problem?

So typical of today's culture to blame everyone else and take no responsibility.

This isn't true. Bangkok Hospital have a DNR policy. However, if the family weren't at the hospital to be asked, BH quite possibly saw themselves on a nice little earner, being the 'mill' that they are. They'll also keep the corpse until settlement. This bit is to scare the bejayzuz out of any Thai relatives as keeping the corporeal remains from having a Buddhist ceremonial barbecue, aborent to Thai culture.