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Expats Who Moan About Thailand Should Either Shut Up Or Leave


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1 hour ago, ScotBkk said:

Yes - I love the - Better you leave Brigrade.

Why must I leave because of points of view. If all the people that have their own opinions where asked to leave Thailand here on TV - would thaivisa still have enough members left to make these posts worthwhile ?

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Yes off course,they would still whinge from 1000's of miles away.Many do.

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I think there is no where in the world that is perfect and I have visited over 70 countries around the globe.
There is always room for improvement in any country or institution. How do we bring about change ??, by commenting on those aspects that we feel require it.

Just because i love living here does not mean that it is a utopia, in the same way that I still love the windswept moors of Yorkshire, even though i left there 36 years ago.

While i do agree that there are some who are a little too strident in their disdain and calls for change, the "If you dont like it Leave" brigade are equally strident in there denunciation

of anyone who voices concern or disagreement. I think this divide has increased over the past few years as we have seen the rise of Social media and the accompanying SJW's.

Interestingly enough, in my house, my Thai wife and our daughter seem to complain more than me about many topics we discuss, I can hardly tell them to go home, now can I ?.

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I don't think it's any different in any country anywhere in the world.  Australia is no different.  Some, not all, but a very vocal and noisy majority, whinge about Australia, it's people and it's laws.  Let them whinge I say, because they don't care about me and I don't care about them, and there are more of me than there are of them.  Nothing to see here.  Move along please.....

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1 hour ago, ScotBkk said:

Yes - I love the - Better you leave Brigrade.

Why must I leave because of points of view. If all the people that have their own opinions where asked to leave Thailand here on TV - would thaivisa still have enough members left to make these posts worthwhile ?

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I think you just described why so many have personality disorders. I wonder how many others have developed their own Harvey that can really understand what they mean whenever they might make a joke or offer constructive criticism. My friend is Freddy, Freddy Kruger.  

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Do you honestly and truly believe everyone should keep stumm about how they're treated in Thailand a place were us so-called Farangs are seen as mere money-spinners. Can't buy a house, can't own our own businesses, have to report every 90 days irregardless of circumstances - the list goes on. Yeah' let's just bite our lip and be happy with our lot !!!!  ScottBKK
.
As someone has already pointed out, these conditions didn't come in the after you arrived.
They were in place when you decided to come & live here.
.
It's like buying a Red Car then walking around complaining that you don't like Red.
All your doing is pointing to your own stupidity-if you decided to come live in a country that has conditions that you don't like to live under.
 
90 day reporting--which is now defunct as you can do it on line, really how tough is that, you must be a real busy man.
 
We write to say what We cannot speak. !! --ScottBKK
So they are arresting people for speaking what you are writing---it's pure fantasy isn't it, there are certainly not whispering  what they disagree with in the bars that I go to. When did they last arrest a farang for complaining about what we complain about here. ?? When did they last deport someone for that. There is only one subject you should be careful talking about--and that was also here a long time before you decided to make it your home.

Can you put your hand on heart and declare to All and sundry here on TV you've NEVER EVER complained about anything WHATSOEVER about Thais or Thailand???

The old adage applies here for a few posters ... People in glasshouses shouldn't throw Stones !!!!!!


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Lately, in the person to person conversations and discussions going on, I've been hearing a lot more complaints about the poor political choices in the US than I have about the problems in Thailand. 
Seems to me there's a plenty to complain about everywhere. 
I think this guy (OP) gets paid to write so must think of something to complain about. 
So he complains about the complainers. 
 

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I wish writers knew the meaning of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world and where the classifications originated from. Too many people use it in derrogatory terms towards an entire nation which in itself is not only ignorant but prejudice as well.

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Astounded at two things in this blog

1) the author cites soi dogs and shisha pipe laws as "things that need to change in Thailand"?? I would've STARTED with lack of elected leaders, rampant corruption, draconian speech restrictions, slavery in the fishing industry, insurgency in the South...etc etc..

 

2) Then this: 

"And while some may call me crazy, since Thailand is technically a military-controlled country, a fact that many expats also like to complain about, if I were the Thai government, I would consider trolling the expat websites and looking for expats talking negatively about the country that’s so graciously taken them in."

 

umm...and do what with them? This is an American literally calling for the Thai military to spy on fellow expats who simply voice their opinion.

SCUM.

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There's complaining (which is normal - nothing's perfect) and then there's outright disdain for and hostility towards everything the country and its people are.

The latter is what I see as being prevalent among a fairly large contingent of "expats" and members on this forum.

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Some of us have families in Thailand and want a better country. If there is disdain, it might be because of the xenophobia and racism found in Thailand's government. It's changing ever so slowly. As in many nations, it takes the older xenophobic, racist generation to die off. In the past, there were many more laws against foreigners and their family members and their 'half bloods' Things have changed but if no one spoke out against them, the laws might still be in place. It's clear that the present people in power are much more interested in brainwashing the Thai people than encouraging them to think about what is good and bad. Those expats who support the abuse, corruption and brainwashing are the ones with problems. Many people have a right to be angry about what goes on her and to get angry about those doing it and to call them what they are with disdain. I see the expats who come here and deny the human rights, justice and fairness principles that most people in the world would agree with as just morally bankrupt. These people while touting Thailand actually are looking down on the masses of Thai people who want those rights. They've sold themselves out to one group of people in Thailand that allows them to take their western money and security and live cheaply as a Farang! in Thailand. The like being someone and Thailand makes them a somebody whereas in the world they came from most of these folks are nobodies. Others are here just for the straight out domination of others. They don't care about the problems of the masses so long as they can rule them and enjoy their special life. 

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Quote

Can you put your hand on heart and declare to All and sundry here on TV you've NEVER EVER complained about anything WHATSOEVER about Thais or Thailand??? --ScottBKK

 

No I couldn't--I have complained Scott, but usually more about an incident with people then the country as a whole, Driving here, Thai People I find quite polite except for this, it must be the only country in the world that you can not let someone into a line, the headlight flash is a courtesy anywhere else in the world--to make it a get out of the way--takes some getting use to.

But if hand on my heart & say is it better then where I left----I usually come back with the same answer, so I hate to dwell on the negative things in my life. Or I'll just become a Mr Meldrew....:shock1:

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As an expat in Bangkok, however, nothing irks me more than when other, fellow expats, talk poorly about Thailand.

 

  What was even more surprising, however, was when I looked at the Facebook profiles for some of these people: low and behold, many of them were foreigners currently residing in Bangkok or elsewhere in Thailand.

 

But if you move to another country voluntarily, without the intention of staying permanently, where do you get off criticizing it?

 

        I don't think that you've been here long enough and for sure not in many provinces, which doesn't give you the right to complain about other peoples' opinion.

 

           I'm doing some volunteer work for an organisation that helps certain citizens of a particular country in emergency situations and might have a little bit more insight than you do. I'm not allowed to talk about specific cases, but believe me, it's not nice how many older people get treated by their spouse and her family. 

 

          Here're some valid points for me to criticize: 

 

   1. The school system is more than a joke. All pass and make it to the next grade, regardless of their attendance, participation, or strange behavioral issues. Many expats do have kids and soon find out that they have to "buy" a place in an EP, you can't just get your child in the "normal way." Parents are constantly called to meetings where they openly ask for donations to build a swimming pool, meeting hall, or a new computer room. But education is free here? Hmmmm..

 

  A lot of them do pay a good amount of money, but it's almost never spent for the purpose they've told you. The money disappears in the director's wallet and in some employees' of the financial office. They tell you that only experienced NES teachers  educate your child, but plenty of schools hire Filipinos, Africans and many others who should never teach at a school for various reasons. ( Including Pedophiles, etc..) What's wrong at Thai schools would fill many pages, but I hope that's enough for you to understand why some expats are moaning about such practices.

 

2. The uncountable balcony suicide deaths and plenty of other "incidents" where foreigners get killed, ( or maybe somebody helped a little bit,) left some drugs or medicine at the scene and it's a "normal death. That there's never a serious investigation, seems to be one of the country's secrets. You'd understand when a family member all in a sudden committed suicide after he shot himself in the back. Please see: http://www.farang-deaths.com/  and read how some people have lost their lives. I'd be more than pissed if a relative, or a friend would be found dead through a balcony jump, without having had a reason doing so. Excluding his wife, gf, or perhaps the Thai husband of the wife. But Thainess forbids that. 

 

 

3. I've been visiting hundreds of mostly older expats who went through the same rip off scenario. In 90 % of all cases, it was always the same old story. They fell in love with a bar girl who already had some kids and a Thai husband and they guy was being used until he's so dry that the woman decided to look for a new victim. There's a village with many foreigners, one of them owns five houses from 5 different foreigners, but her "current" foreigner doesn't know anything about her past. She's usually losing a good part of his pension that helped mom and dad to have a better life. 

 

4. You might not belong to the working folks here, but i do. What would you think if you pay into the social security for 12 years, have read the whole workmen's act that clearly states that peoples' families, of employers who pay into the system are automatically covered as well. You might need a few years to find out the the issued SS number doesn't even exist and you can't get your wife in the system. But it's working for Thai teachers who marry a foreigner, These foreigners do have a "real SS number", not a fake one.

 

5. You almost got killed by a red light hopping and speeding freak who's visible on drugs in the morning at 6 o' clock, right next to the cops. You almost land in a wheel chair, many broken parts at your spine, plus some ribs, uncountable stitches everywhere, but the hospital sends you home after six hours without making X Rays of your body body? Two more hospitals are needed to finally find out how serious the injuries were. 

At the same time does the guy who caused the accident visit the cop and the story has changed in a way that you did the red light and you were the guy who's speeding. I could tell you a few more true stories, but that would fill many pages........

 

  6. A Thai guy's looking for troubles on Chinese New Year, calls you all possible names that you get angry. But after telling you that your mom's a bitch, it could happen that you hit his nose. Exactly what "they" were waiting for. Then a group of people beat the shithe out of you and they don't stop, even when you're already on the road and bleeding like a pig.

 

7. All the drug overdosed foreigners usually don't make it to the news. Heroin is still easily available in Mae Hong Son and other areas and all the overdosed foreigners then died of a heart attack, or something else they made up. It can't be that people die of illegal substances that don't exist, because the cops do such a great job. And of course did the good general protect "his country" in a way that such things just do not happen. 

 

      

Finally, I never criticize Thailand for what it has become. But please don't be mad with people who have/had to experience very strange things, found themselves money and house less, because their wives gambled all away and the money sharks start to  get the money back from you. But your wife still loves you too much.......

 

     Live and let die. You gave your opinion, so please let others write their own opinion.

 

Thank you very much for your consideration. 

 

      

    

 

        

 

 

Edited by lostinisaan
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I think the article needs to outline who it is exactly they are criticising... 

 

There are after all prolific whingers who see fault in anything and everything... these same folk would see fault in anything and everything in their home nations... they are just miserable. 

 

There are others who fail to see fault in their new country, every day is a new wondrous adventure, they can't handle any criticism of Thailand at all and usually spout off.. "If you don't like it go home"... or "non Thai's don't have the right to complain"... 

 

Then there are those of us who fit somewhere along the spectrum between.... Depending on our experiences our balance and view points differ slightly or significantly.. 

 

I believe the Key Point is to have a Balanced View Point... There is much to adore in Thailand, equally so there is much to Criticise.. there is nothing wrong is presenting well argued, intelligent and balanced opinions against something negative.... this is the basis of healthy discussion. 

 

Another point - nationality alone doesn't give someone the right to criticism... When out with close and trusted Thai friends, intelligent discussion and balanced debate is fun... More often than not there is hardly any debate for the views of many foreigners I read on this forum are quite often mirrored by Thai fiends of mine...  

 

In fact, given many issues, Traffic, Corruption, Politics the Opinions of many Thai's are far more extreme than ours, the discussions are hot, interesting and often highly informative... And what doesn't surprise me at all is that intelligent people draw very similar discussion... 

 

Thus: IMO as foreigners we DO have a right to an opinion here, We DO have a right to Voice our opinions and Criticise Thailand... we may just need to be more careful where and how we go about this... 

 

Of course, some could do with sitting back, thinking a little more, learning a little more and / or applying a little balance... everyone has the right to discuss an opinion... some may just need to consider their delivery.

 

As I wrote... I see all these discussions, opinions, criticisms and compliments are all about having a balanced and intelligent view point...

 

 

 

Edited by richard_smith237
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4 hours ago, Crossy said:

Yes, there are a huge number of valid complaints about the way things are here and I can whinge with the best of them (I'm a Brit after all, it's what we do best).

 

But IMHO they are offset by the good things in life.

 

The weather is generally pleasant, after a grey summer's day in Manchester a nice warm day, even with rain, is just heaven.

I (ok my wife) have a home I couldn't dream of affording in the UK within an hour of the CBD of a capital city but still out in the sticks (at least for now).

I also earn rather more and pay significantly less tax than I did in Europe.

 

 

So true. For myself, I love a good moan, but it doesn't mean that I hate living in LOS. Anyone that thinks LOS is perfection needs their head examined. I can put up with most of the imperfections, though I see no need to be quiet about them, and if it got to the point that the imperfections in LOS exceeded those elsewhere, I'd go elsewhere.

David Rosenfield  claims to have lived, or at least visited many countries, but he doesn't seem to have learned much wisdom in his travels, least of all seeing the irony of complaining about people that complain.

 

Lastly, what the ^^$%$% does the picture of a girl have to do with the subject matter? If it was to provide a hook to get people to read his moan about moaners, it worked with me, as I don't normally read threads that contain such chestnuts as "As an expat in Bangkok, however, nothing irks me more than when other, fellow expats, talk poorly about Thailand".

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We're complaining because of lack of service of a reasonable standard and matters of safety and security. If feedback on serious issues was taken into consideration and acted upon, it would only mean better things for the country and its people.

 

Then there is the rampant corruption, injustice and lack of freedom that some of us complain about, things that Thai themselves are speaking up about by the way (should they also "shut up or leave"?). The addressing of those issues also ultimately benefit Thai people the most.

 

Without criticism, development is impossible. But maybe the writer is happy with how poor Thailand is because the value of their dollar will remain strong, providing all the luxuries they are used to having here. 

 

Expats who don't have anything to moan about should probably put on their blinkers and go pose for photos at the farang fair outside Central World.

Edited by mesterm
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1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So true. For myself, I love a good moan, but it doesn't mean that I hate living in LOS. Anyone that thinks LOS is perfection needs their head examined. I can put up with most of the imperfections, though I see no need to be quiet about them, and if it got to the point that the imperfections in LOS exceeded those elsewhere, I'd go elsewhere.

David Rosenfield  claims to have lived, or at least visited many countries, but he doesn't seem to have learned much wisdom in his travels, least of all seeing the irony of complaining about people that complain.

 

Lastly, what the ^^$%$% does the picture of a girl have to do with the subject matter? If it was to provide a hook to get people to read his moan about moaners, it worked with me, as I don't normally read threads that contain such chestnuts as "As an expat in Bangkok, however, nothing irks me more than when other, fellow expats, talk poorly about Thailand".

 

 Thanks, indeed wise words....it's true that a guy who writes that he/she's visited 50 countries ( one day waiting at Tokyo airport included? ) 

 

    BTW, using "shut up, or leave" isn't something I'd really call polite. Didn't the OP "moan" about his/.her country a lot, when you read between the lines, the African Americans shouldn't be there....Ku Klux Klan member?

 

Well, the Mexicans didn't get a promotion either. 

 

         "Visited 50 + countries and finally decided that Thailand, especially Bangkok seems to be the creme de' la creme?

 

    I don't think that the OP knows a lot about Bangkok at all. There's a lot of stuff you don't see when you're a newbie.

 

           The America moaner tells Thailand moaners to shut up if they want to moan about something that's obviously not alright for many foreigners. Nobody wanted you to moan about the States, you chief moaner. 

 

         I hope that the OP will soon find out the truth about Bangkok. A monstrous city that eats plenty of people alive.

 

           How can people be happy to live in a polluted city like Bangkok is another part. 

 

       The Thailand Moaner Club is informed and will get back to you ASAP> 

 

  

 

              

 

          

 

 

Edited by lostinisaan
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Well I'm glad that that entire article was premised on that when one is a visitor, one may not make negative comments otherwise known as complaining.   Which when reduced to the fundamental difference between a visitor and one that is not, that is simply a classification, maintained by the bureaucracy in support of the state.

Well, since a person may experience life within thailand as a member of said group or not, and relatively, the experiences completely denied to a non member are as a list tiny and temporally insignificant in scale. And that is only in the first hand, experience may be done vicariously.

Seems apparent that if a person has an issue with something they have experienced in Thailand, that being a citizen isn't a great enabled, due to its entirely synthetic nature. 

So the suggestion that it is bad manners to "Complain" or some how place thailand in a negative light, and offensive.  Akin to complaining about the home of a house you are visiting, and is generally rude and not considered acceptable. 

So you have expanded the domain of ones personal abode, in which one has almost full control of their domain and freedom from the state into the entire domain of the state.  And replaced an actual persons home and feelings to hurt, with a commonwealth in which the state. 

Utter rubbish for reasoning it was almost as painful to read as the above, anthropomorphological based reasons for such a strong belief is a glaring brain fail.   So, the base belief regarding manners of visitors in reference to the state, that reasoning is fatally flawed, and then double down on applying it anthropomorphological , yep, another swing and a miss on the thinkers performance.

Thanks author for the useless opinion.

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The point is if you have lived here a long time 16 years plus and made Thailand your home you would have noticed the decline in the place  with regards to treatment of foreigners many new stupid laws and regulations even the beaches deserted and dirty. The shame is many good people that have lived here a long time and also spent a lot of money here have left already some want to but cant because they have families here so when writing a stupid article like this consider that every one has different circumstances. 

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8 hours ago, ScotBkk said:

Do you honestly and truly believe everyone should keep stumm about how they're treated in Thailand a place were us so-called Farangs are seen as mere money-spinners. Can't buy a house, can't own our own businesses, have to report every 90 days irregardless of circumstances - the list goes on. Yeah' let's just bite our lip and be happy with our lot !!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Sure we can buy a house (through a company), and own your own business (though a corporate setup), and even buy a condo (provided it is only 49% farang owned)... With the risk go the rewards; affordable living/eating, beautiful places to visit, very relaxed people (for the most part).  90 day check-in?  Can do it online for convenience now... things are improving in the past 7 years I have been coming here.. now living here.

On the latter, I've seen and heard many complaints and now hearing about violence prompted by foreigners (Pattaya, Hua Hin, etc).  This is very bad precedent for the lot of us who truly enjoy the people and culture here.  

There are always 'more positive' ways to make suggestions... for corruption, I've heard many candid antecedents on how some choose to deal with adversarial situations.  Mainly, be humble, recognize who it is, and what they really want... if it costs a few hundred baht or so to satisfy a police shake-down... consider it insurance, smile, and recognize police are not paid very well here.  

 

"Saving Face" is very much paramount in this culture... if one cannot be more 'Buddhist' about things... I suggest you truly reconsider why you are here and what you hope to accomplish... 

 

just sayin'

 

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6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Lawyer?b He is not a member of the Thai bar is he?

Isn't this  guy a contract lecturer at one of the low end universities?

He's happy. Good for him.  I have different needs and goals than a teacher who  is delighted by the fact that

" I make literally 5% of what I used to make back in the US, but I also get four months paid vacation a year (compared to two weeks), work 15-20 hours/week (compared to 50-70), get free housing (compared to $3000/month rent in NYC), get free transportation between our city and suburban campuses (compared to $200/month in public transport costs back in the US), get a free round trip flight home every other year, and most importantly, enjoy the thought of going into work every day and actually look forward to returning to work after a long holiday."

Back in my university days I was harvesting vital organs and would be soaked in blood and juices, I would have been enjoyed an opportunity to become a "dive instructor".  I could have worked on my tan,  had ample opportunity to fornicate etc.  It's all about perspective. 

This clown  has no standing in Thailand. He's a nobody. He was a nobody stateside. Good for him that's happy. Nobodies deserve a shot at happiness too.

 

 

 

 

 

Whinging Farangs

On arrival we should all be tattooed with a number on our arms if our Thai superiors have an inkling we have that far away look or been suggested we could be here for a much longer duration than the usual economy class tourist. 
 
After being grilled over the coals for what seems nonsensical reasons,this  on our very privileged 90 day visits (that could possibly be done online) I personally think it's best to go in person to be given free lessons on how to become much more subservient, therefore entirely grateful (as this OP has suggested) as a matter of respect for our being allowed to live here at great cost compared to our Thai counterparts. 
 
How dare we even muster annoyance showing our disrespect. Especially, when getting ripped off at public venues, by taxis, Tuk Tuks or motorbike Mafia types when in reality we should open our wallets and let them decide an appropriate charge they deem fit.
 
Don't ever forget we're just guests, same as are our siblings, if the mother isn't Thai and must pay heavily for a piss poor so-called international schooling that's supposed to wholly represent our educational system back in our own civilised countries. 
 
Feel free to accustom oneself with other expatriates who've now integrated with Thai families in remote villages learning to adopt their customs - at a price. Become a pillar of their clan buying your way into the 51% vs 49% scenarios and never voice your own opinions which invariably becomes decremental to ones health .  Otherwise, could become a permanent feature finding yourself being immersed into a concrete pillar with your amulet intact for good luck. 
 
There's so many admiring aspects, interpretations, connotations to living a humble life here, as long as you keep your gob shut. This OP had me in floods of tears and needs to be commended given that he seems a perfect candidate for president of the Thai apologist club. 
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8 hours ago, Crossy said:

Ok, off topic posts have been removed.

 

Let's try to keep to the subject of the OP.

 

Some moan some write big long stories ..

Some have a laugh 

Internet has taken over from The Sunday Sport and The News of The World .

I stopped buying newspapers a long time back 

Internet just switch it off.

Switch it back on choose where you look 

Thaivisa moaners is fun.

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8 hours ago, robblok said:

No need to keep quit about these things, valid complaints.. but if you really hate them (I dont like them) just leave because it is not going to change anytime soon. 

Rob's opinions of the place change depending on who's in power. Don't expect a bad word from him whilst his beloved junta is in the driving seat.

 

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8 minutes ago, ScotBkk said:

Whinging Farangs

On arrival we should all be tattooed with a number on our arms if our Thai superiors have an inkling we have that far away look or been suggested we could be here for a much longer duration than the usual economy class tourist. 
 
After being grilled over the coals for what seems nonsensical reasons,this  on our very privileged 90 day visits (that could possibly be done online) I personally think it's best to go in person to be given free lessons on how to become much more subservient, therefore entirely grateful (as this OP has suggested) as a matter of respect for our being allowed to live here at great cost compared to our Thai counterparts. 
 
How dare we even muster annoyance showing our disrespect. Especially, when getting ripped off at public venues, by taxis, Tuk Tuks or motorbike Mafia types when in reality we should open our wallets and let them decide an appropriate charge they deem fit.
 
Don't ever forget we're just guests, same as are our siblings, if the mother isn't Thai and must pay heavily for a piss poor so-called international schooling that's supposed to wholly represent our educational system back in our own civilised countries. 
 
Feel free to accustom oneself with other expatriates who've now integrated with Thai families in remote villages learning to adopt their customs - at a price. Become a pillar of their clan buying your way into the 51% vs 49% scenarios and never voice your own opinions which invariably becomes decremental to ones health .  Otherwise, could become a permanent feature finding yourself being immersed into a concrete pillar with your amulet intact for good luck. 
 
There's so many admiring aspects, interpretations, connotations to living a humble life here, as long as you keep your gob shut. This OP had me in floods of tears and needs to be commended given that he seems a perfect candidate for president of the Thai apologist club. 

Expect a jocular reply from TV's Thai-bashing policemen.

 

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