Seminar: Long-stay Challenges

[luther]

The online registering of foreign guest by hotels and guest houses to comply with TM30 regulations has been working well for years.  It happens through the immigration's website.  My question would be that given that this is the case, why can't the obvious/most trivial hoops facing long stay expats be similarly done via the internet?

[hml367]

3 hours ago, Dante99 said:

125 kilometers each way?  Not by my map.

 

Dante99,

 

Maybe he doesn't live in Chiang Mai?  I missed anything that said he does live in Chiang Mai.  His profile shows Khlong Lan Phatthana, which according to Google maps and from Khlong Lan Phatthana, Khlong Lan, to Nakhon Sawan shows 123 km.

 

This would not require any fictitious addresses if that is or is even close to actuality.

 

No criticism intended - just my observation.

Edited October 14, 2016 by hml367
clarity

[jobin]

I've got the retirement visa extension, on my second stamp this year.  But i do not consider myself a 'long term tourist', if i can define tourist as someone who arrives, stays a short time, spends extravagantly, and departs for home.

 

I'm here month after month,  and frankly, spending frugally.  Sure i have more money (in the bank, etc) than most Thai folks i meet but am i the sort of 'tourist' the govt wants in town?  

 

And i'd advise all who intend to go to first check the nationwide funeral procedures and closings due the King's passing.  I rather doubt any big-shot in the Thai govt will come to CM, if her absence will be noted in BKK during the procession. 

[evenstevens]

5 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

 

 

However, it does appear that some of this input is "trickling upward".  Also, it seems that the many complaints to Consulates and Embassies about inhumane treatment at Chiang Mai Immigration and unequal treatment at our province's Immigration office (when compared to other provinces) may also have been noticed.  A few expats have figured out just who is ultimately in charge, too, and written intelligent, well-documented letters to them, too. With a willingness to sign their name, address, phone number, etc.  Kudos.

 

 yes ,perhaps a little ray of sunshine may peep, through with the above comments, as respect is being shown

 

a far cry from your well documented comments on this board,which was totally  disrespectful to the immgr  dept in anyway who  read them

 

do hope the penny has dropped, and E/S will move on with fingers crossed,that services at the immgr dept may improve for all expats in Cmai

 

its paying respect late arvo to all

[Atum]

2 hours ago, evenstevens said:

 

 yes ,perhaps a little ray of sunshine may peep, through with the above comments, as respect is being shown

 

a far cry from your well documented comments on this board,which was totally  disrespectful to the immgr  dept in anyway who  read them

 

do hope the penny has dropped, and E/S will move on with fingers crossed,that services at the immgr dept may improve for all expats in Cmai

 

its paying respect late arvo to all

evenstevens - the perfect gentleman! or not...

[evenstevens]

1 hour ago, Atum said:

evenstevens - the perfect gentleman! or not...

well, uumm,, of course

smooth as a bucket of snot ,woops !!! smooth as a bucket full of salt

hey cobber, Don,t  Bring Me Down ,  sung by

its  a  Electric Light  Orchestra  (Jeff Lynne) great happy  song, good evening to all

[moe666]

When did the Department of Tourism take over the care and feeding of long term stay expats.

[mania]

20 hours ago, LPCustom69 said:

They'll probably have a booth set up selling Elite Visas!

 

555

I had heard about  those but never really read the specs on them till today

What a total con that is

 

Pay 500k for 5 years but still need to do 1900 baht extensions if you stay more than 12 months 555

Plus you have to do your 90 day reports

 

For the life of me I cannot believe anyone would buy these cards

If you want someone to do it all for you you can use a agent for say 10k baht a year so 50k in 5 years

instead of 500k

 

But 500k or more for these cards has to be the silliest con I have heard yet

But don't try & ask any questions in the Elite thread...It will be deemed trolling

after the shills trying to sell those cards on that thread report your post 555

 

Edited October 15, 2016 by mania

[billd766]

21 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

The thing is that you have create some sort of fiction that you live at an address in Nakhon Sawan province and have a TM30 tied to that residence, even if you spend most your time in Chiang Mai province.  Maybe you have in-laws there or a second home.  But for many of us, our primary and ONLY residence in Thailand is in Chiang Mai.

 

Actually Nancy, you are not correct. I don't have to create any fiction as to where I live as Nakhon Sawan IS my reporting office and the last time I was in Chiang Mai was about 4 years ago.

 

When I did my first extension 7 years ago I had to go to Mae Sot 175 km away as there was no Immigration office in either Khampaeng Phet or Nakhon Sawan. The following year the Immigration office in Nakhon Sawan opened 125 km away and was fully functional and I had to report there. I have done that for the past 6 years. This year a new Immigration office has opened but his no intranet link to the main Immigration system and is therefore non functional so we still have to report to Nakhon Sawan.

 

I have NO second home anyway or relations in Chiang Mai at all. My wife's direct family live in Bangkok and there are branches in Korat and some other towns and cities.

 

Far more farangs live outside and away from Chiang Mai and many live in provinces where there is no border with another country and are less populated.

 

When the Khampaeng Phet office 65km away is fully up and running I will do all my reporting there.

 

The Immigration department, as far as I can see are trying to open offices in every province to ease the travel  burden on farangs reporting for Immigration issues.

.

[NancyL]

Thank you billd766, for your clarification.  This seminar is about problems people are having with the Chiang Mai Immigration office.  

 

I just figured you lived in CM province for most of the year.  Clearly, you're not the "target audience" for this seminar.

[hml367]

28 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Thank you billd766, for your clarification.  This seminar is about problems people are having with the Chiang Mai Immigration office.  

 

I just figured you lived in CM province for most of the year.  Clearly, you're not the "target audience" for this seminar.

 

NancyL,

The original post includes: "It has come to the attention of various Thai government agencies and officials and our Consulates and Embassies that expats living in Chiang Mai and the Northern region are encountering problems regarding their long-stay here and the inconveniences experienced
when extending their visas. "

 

It also includes: "The objective of this seminar is for expats to meet and discuss matters about the entire problem, so that the government can, hopefully, make necessary changes to the appropriate laws and regulations, in order to provide long-stay expats a pleasant, convenient, happy and enjoyable stay here. "

 

In the original post I don't see any mention of Chiang Mai Immigration office specifically.   Why should the meeting only be, "about problems people at having with the Chiang Mai Immigration office." ?

[NancyL]

If you read the entire CEC e-newsletter, you'll see the only a very few seats are being made available to expats and I'm able to select just a few, to represent the various nationalities that comprise the Chiang Mai Expats Club.  While not 100% of our seats will be filled by members of CEC, most will.  

 

This is not a massive public forum with unlimited seating.  Remember, too, that Chiang Mai Japanese, Korean, etc expat groups are also sending representatives.

 

You have to remember what has caused this meeting to be called in the first place -- widespread complaints from various sectors about the Chiang Mai Immigration office and the gradual realization by several very highly placed high Thai gov't officials that something isn't right here.  

 

Do you really think that billd766 and others from provinces with functioning immigration offices should be coming to a free gov't sponsored seminar in Chiang Mai with limited seating to provide input about what's going on in Chiang Mai Province and hear the views from the high gov't officials?  Seriously?  I think this is just another example, hml367, of how you, EvenStevens and a few others pick apart everything I post.

[hml367]

NancyL,

I stand by the points I made in my post, #41. 

If you feel people pick apart your posts when they do not agree with you, then you are very  single minded in that thinking.

The original post and your posts #'s 40 and 42 do not reflect the same thing.

 

If the objective of the meeting is to change appropriate laws and regulations, then every person that could be affected by those changes should have access to what may affect those changes.  So, yes, I do think other people should be allowed to attend.

Edited October 15, 2016 by hml367

[Lizard2010]

1 hour ago, hml367 said:

NancyL,

I stand by the points I made in my post, #41. 

If you feel people pick apart your posts when they do not agree with you, then you are very  single minded in that thinking.

The original post and your posts #'s 40 and 42 do not reflect the same thing.

 

If the objective of the meeting is to change appropriate laws and regulations, then every person that could be affected by those changes should have access to what may affect those changes.  So, yes, I do think other people should be allowed to attend.

I only posted what i thought what was apropiate

 

Now if all the complainers had actually subscribed to the CEC Newsletter

You would have been advised correctly

Plus i might add you do not have to be a member to get the newsletter

 

They also advise in the Newsletter  as much information they receive from the Consulates and Embassys

I might add that includes the Australian Embassy in Bangkok

 

I could nit pick most  of what is in this forum post

But i feel it is a waste of my time

 

So get over it

Let everything run its course

We will see what comes out of it

All of us have to live here as best we can

Without too much hassle from Government Departments

'No body knows why Chiang Mai Immigration runs the way it is compared to the rest of the Immigration offices

Maybe the Minister maybe able to have things changed

 

As i believe this post has advise people already

I dont want this to start to be come a slinging match

This was for Information Only

I have done my part

IMHO

 

I will leave it up to the moderators to decide to closes the Forum Post

I would like it closed

 

[evenstevens]

5 hours ago, NancyL said:

  Seriously?  I think this is just another example, hml367, of how you, EvenStevens and a few others pick apart everything I post.

 

no not at all,!!!

E/S has only replied to your posts (apart from a very  few)which has continously carpet bomb the  Immgr Dept for poor services,in C/Mai for the past two years or more

please take my point of view, that  your carpet bombing etc etc

you have acted personally on  my behalf , not your social club, and who ever, have you ever   realized that????

Me  E/S, a knock about  Aussie

who has no axe  to grind against the Immgr Dept, whats so ever, BUT  your senseless  motives or ideals  or whims which  have acheived nothing at all

but make E/S happy retirement in c/mai  a harder road to enjoy,

Again please   pay respect to the Immgr Dept,instead of taking them down, which you have done on this board,and the odds will multiply on getting a good service for all expats in C/mai,  ,and E/S off your back (LoL)

a  Chelsea F.C,  late evening to all my readers

 

[Diplomatico]

3 minutes ago, evenstevens said:

 

no not at all,!!!

E/S has only replied to your posts (apart from a very  few)which has continously carpet bomb the  Immgr Dept for poor services,in C/Mai for the past two years or more

please take my point of view, that  your carpet bombing etc etc

you have acted personally on  my behalf , not your social club, and who ever, have you ever   realized that????

Me  E/S, a knock about  Aussie

who has no axe  to grind against the Immgr Dept, whats so ever, BUT  your senseless  motives or ideals  or whims which  have acheived nothing at all

but make E/S happy retirement in c/mai  a harder road to enjoy,

Again please   pay respect to the Immgr Dept,instead of taking them down, which you have done on this board,and the odds will multiply on getting a good service for all expats in C/mai,  ,and E/S off your back (LoL)

a  Chelsea F.C,  late evening to all my readers

 

 

  Wow, thread-stalk much?  You are one creepy individual, following a certain TV member from thread to thread to spew your gibberish at her.  If it were me you were thread-stalking, I'd have reported you to the mods a long time ago.  

[Torrens54]

On 10/14/2016 at 11:08 AM, NancyL said:

 

Yes, there have been several meetings on this subject and on the broader subject of what the Thai government can do to make Northern Thailand more attractive for what they call "long stay tourism".  The amount of time, effort and money that's gone into organizing these meetings has been big and have involved many Thai government and non-government agencies.  

 

At times, it's been very frustrating to attend because the recommendations from the expats of all nationalities are always the same:  give good access to services at CM Immigration, streamline regulations concerning long-stay visas to eliminate redundant reporting, change property ownership regulations for foreigners, permit long-stay foreigners to work or at least volunteer easily, improve handicap access and public transportation in the city, eliminate the seasonal air quality problem, etc, etc.  And usually there are additional recommendations about granting foreigners access to the Thai 30 baht health insurance program at a reasonable rate and implementing long-term (5 year) visas.

 

Everything is politely and duly noted and it seems nothing ever changes.

 

However, it does appear that some of this input is "trickling upward".  Also, it seems that the many complaints to Consulates and Embassies about inhumane treatment at Chiang Mai Immigration and unequal treatment at our province's Immigration office (when compared to other provinces) may also have been noticed.  A few expats have figured out just who is ultimately in charge, too, and written intelligent, well-documented letters to them, too. With a willingness to sign their name, address, phone number, etc.  Kudos.  

Many thanks Nancy, we/you can but continue to try.

Have to admit a recent trip to CNX Immigration one evening, with the intention of "camping out in the car" was well rewarded. A kindly, Senior Official who just happened to be strolling around the car park, assured my wife and I that we did NOT need to be there all night and to come back around 6 a.m. We took his advice, he turned-up shortly after we arrived in the morning and rendered personal assistance to all of the Early Birds. Even opened the office early to make our wait more comfortable.

Things are improving !

 

[Dante99]

9 hours ago, evenstevens said:

 

no not at all,!!!

E/S has only replied to your posts (apart from a very  few)which has continously carpet bomb the  Immgr Dept for poor services,in C/Mai for the past two years or more

please take my point of view, that  your carpet bombing etc etc

you have acted personally on  my behalf , not your social club, and who ever, have you ever   realized that????

Me  E/S, a knock about  Aussie

who has no axe  to grind against the Immgr Dept, whats so ever, BUT  your senseless  motives or ideals  or whims which  have acheived nothing at all

but make E/S happy retirement in c/mai  a harder road to enjoy,

Again please   pay respect to the Immgr Dept,instead of taking them down, which you have done on this board,and the odds will multiply on getting a good service for all expats in C/mai,  ,and E/S off your back (LoL)

a  Chelsea F.C,  late evening to all my readers

 

E/S:

In pervious posts over a long period of time you repeatedly called the Immigration Department a zoo which is quite disrespectful.  Have you ever realized that?

[NancyL]

I've just been informed that our allocation of seats has increased.  Apparently the some of the other nationalities aren't exactly coming up with large numbers of attendees for this seminar and I've been asked to invite more people.  So, if you'd like to be considered for an invitation, please send me a PM or email [email protected]  and supply the following details about yourself.  I will send you a confirming email if you're invited and the program agenda.  As stated in the OP, you have to be able to attend all day Friday, 8:30 - 4:30 pm at the Empress Hotel.  It's not going to look good if people leave early, and besides the time on the agenda for us to make comments is in the afternoon.

 

1.You name

2. Your nationality 
3. Type of visa 
3. Length of time in Chiang Mai 
4. If you’ve lived elsewhere in Thailand 
5. Reasons you’d like to attend this seminar 
6. Contact phone number

7. Email address if you send me a PM

[Saraphee]

I'm looking forward to a report on this important meeting already

[NancyL]

There were over 160 people at the meeting, including about 30 who arrived without an invitation and were graciously admitted and given the free lunch and extra chairs were put into the room.  Some said they learned about the meeting here on ThaiVisa.   Since was involved in organizing and spoke at the meeting, I was waiting for input from those who were there to provide more realistic input.

[MrBrad]

How can people feel good about attending a restricted meeting, one by invitation only, and expect to be welcomed--and fed, no less?  Then, even more incredible, they apparently just sat there, not adding relative comments to the meeting which they so much felt they needed to participate in.

 

Outlandish.

[kilt]

Nancy, you may as well start! I for one am eagerly awaiting a report from the meeting....

With thanks

[MrBrad]

30 minutes ago, MrBrad said:

How can people feel good about attending a restricted meeting, one by invitation only, and expect to be welcomed--and fed, no less?  Then, even more incredible, they apparently just sat there, not adding relative comments to the meeting which they so much felt they needed to participate in.

 

Outlandish.

I apologize for misunderstanding all of Nancy's post.  I thought that she meant that there were no comments by the attendees during the meeting.  I now see that she is referring to our seeing no comments by those who attended thus far here on the forum.

 

 

[TheFishman1]

Well NL start talking you all ways do 

[neilrob]

I attended. Nancy made a good speech. The seminar was interesting , but depressing.

 

The Thai speakers repeatedly said how they welcomed long term stayers. There was also reference to Malaysia being number one for retirees and how they would like to make northern Thailand number one instead. The Minister was gracious and said she was not interested in beautiful plans, but action. She also said she wanted to hear input from us and there was indeed substantial opportunity for us to ask questions and make comments at various points during the afternoon. All this sounds good. However, I detected no willingness to address even the most obvious and easy solutions, such as a long term visa with less repetitive reporting (if you want long term stayers, it seems a no brainer to offer a long term visa!) The minister said she would consider this (although I suspect she does not actually have the power to do anything about visas) but said there may be "security considerations", which sounds like a killer.

 

The head of CM Immigration was slated to appear, but was "too busy", which gives an idea of the value Immigration attaches to this process. He sent two junior officers instead. Interestingly, one of these officers came up to me after I had asked a question about a long term visa and said that is what Immigration would like to see also. This was before the Minister had appeared. He asked me to make sure the minister heard this also. I did so, but with the above depressing result.

[Greenside]

Here's a brief summary:
The meeting was well organised and well attended, with simultaneous translation in four languages, decent catering in an accessible and comfortable venue with good parking.

While the speakers did their best to assure us that the government is becoming increasingly aware of the value of Long-Stay Tourists, it soon became obvious that their definition of this sector was not the appropriate one for the audience as it included anyone staying for over a month in the area.  Hence the detailed projects and plans that were set out (with a multitude of PowerPoint slides in one case) were irrelevant to most of the needs of those of us who regard Chiang Mai as home.

It was suggested that perhaps a new term be coined for this group, perhaps Long-Stay Guests, so that resources aren't wasted providing us with services we don't need.  Nancy and members of the audience were invited to set forth the wants and concerns of the groups represented at the meeting and they were clearly aired to the officials present, including (for a time, at least) two immigration officers.  The points included:

 

• The known issues with CM immigration.  Why does our service appear to be inferior to other parts of the country?
• The idea of a 3, 5 or even 10 year visa for those who have been given say five consecutive extensions and not broken any laws or regulations in that period.
• A way that over 65s could join the public heathcare scheme at an affordable price which would make financial sense for the government in the context of our overall annual spending.
• Getting some positive regional and possibly international action to improve the air quality from both burning and local pollution.
• Some consideration for the needs of older citizens, including more provision for handicapped access, fixing sidewalks and the like.

The Minister for Sport & Tourism,who is the person responsible, flew up from Bangkok for the final hour or so of the day and was made aware of all these issues.  Sadly, despite hints from previous speakers, she wasn't able to bring us good news about visa changes (or anything else for that matter) but at least she is now aware of us as a significant and valuable group that with just a little care can continue to contribute no small sum to the local economy.

 

Time will tell if this achieves more than just the usual hot air and excuses, but showing a united front in this way seems a big step in the right direction and I believe we should keep at it.  Many thanks to all the organizers.

[cmsally]

Just like to say "well done" to Nancy for putting forth the important points and once again sticking her head into the firing line !

[Thailand]

We understand and sympathise with your problems and they will be considered and addressed in due course.

 

Does that summarise the seminar?

[Saraphee]

I think Shakespeare must have visited Thailand - and then wrote "Much ado about Nothing"