Yingluck appears in Court

[Baerboxer]

" Thailand's ousted prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra said the military junta that overthrew her has ordered her assets seized and fined her THB35 billion baht over a rice subsidy scheme critics say hemorrhaged billions of dollars. "

 

Guess she forgot about actually being removed from the caretaker PM role by a court for an illegal abuse of power several weeks prior to the coup. Same memory lapse as a number of TVF posters.

 

But pretending she was removed by a military Junta sounds so much better than the truth.

[Baerboxer]

On 10/22/2016 at 10:20 AM, Eric Loh said:

 

Gamini must have missed the revelation by a former judge of the highest court that there were judgements compromised by political convenience. Heavily tinted yellow glasses. 

 

 

Like you normally choose to miss the pastry box attempted bribe in the "politically" motivated case; or one judge admitting he thought Thaksin guilty in hiding assets but acquitted him as he's just become PM.

Or maybe the Krughthai bank fraud case where other defendants have been convicted and sentenced whereas Thaksin is waiting out the Statute of Limitations as he couldn't fiddle his complete Amnesty whitewash.

 

Heavily tinted red glasses as usual Eric.

[Baerboxer]

On 10/22/2016 at 11:01 AM, JAG said:

I doubt that the money is "to hand".

She has had ample opportunity to run but she won't. The Junta's only real card left is to imprison her or place her under some sort of house arrest. This would only serve to increase her popularity, and her popularity is her trump card.

Yingluck is playing a long game. She knows that she is popular, and she reckons that makes her pretty untouchable. I think she will remain in Thailand, in the public eye, (the junta are doing a pretty good job of keeping her there), so that when the time comes opposition will coalesce around her. It's been done before by female political figures in S E Asia....

 

Dear oh dear. You still want to believe, and persuade others, that she makes decisions and is really a political leader and strategist?

 

You need a reality check. 

 

As for comparing her to "other political female figures in S E Asia" - sure, India has several corrupt female politicians who compare!

[JAG]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Dear oh dear. You still want to believe, and persuade others, that she makes decisions and is really a political leader and strategist?

 

You need a reality check. 

 

As for comparing her to "other political female figures in S E Asia" - sure, India has several corrupt female politicians who compare!

 

 

No real argument I see,as ever just a sneer, driven by your bizarre obsessive paranoia.

 

So what is your explanation for her not running, and deciding to stay? But be careful, such a reply may require you to undertake a reality check!

 

[Baerboxer]

On 10/22/2016 at 11:50 AM, Eric Loh said:

The point that I find hard to reconcile is where did the huge sum of money went. It just didn't disappeared into thin air. If any sum of money went into any one pockets and corruption proven in court, throw the book at them and jail them. Fact is that the money went into the wider economy as consumption or as revenue taxes, terms used by economist as fiscal multiplier. What it meant to happen is that fiscal multiplier generate more than the sum invested. Somehow the junta seem not keen to talk about this or made any attempt to calculate this fiscal multiplier. Why? 

 

You do indeed find it hard to reconcile - because the PTP have refused to reveal any management and financial accounts, allow any audit of any accounts and continuously talked in riddles and tried to make a smoke and mirror show of it.  

 

Believing it "trickled down" into the wider economy is another fairy story. 

 

Eric, the money probably went to millers, hauliers, warehouse owners, large growers, fraudulent exporters an traders, and assorted others. Some farmers also benefited. But by how much no one knows and that's the way they'd like to keep it. How much was skimmed off and where it went is anybody's guess.

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

 

 

No real argument I see,as ever just a sneer, driven by your bizarre obsessive paranoia.

 

So what is your explanation for her not running, and deciding to stay? But be careful, such a reply may require you to undertake a reality check!

 

 

Ah your usual insulting response. Accuse people of paranoia just like those old East European communists did to any who dared challenge their nonsense. Whereas you clearly don't remain in reality.

 

Simple. Thaksin has told her to stay put. He wants her here. Nothing like an attractive photogenic "martyr" to help the cause. She's a good actress and dutiful little sister who does as her big brother tells her for the good of the family - and screw everyone else.

 

No, as someone who believes she was actually leading PTP and is an accomplished politician (even with zero experience before becoming PM - a veritable genius), maybe you would be kind enough to evidence that. Her political speeches - in parliament, in conference, her insightful TV interviews, her political accomplishment's etc etc. 

 

From your previous comments, is it reasonable to conclude, you believe she was in charge of the government when PM, selected and appointed all cabinet members and made all major decisions herself?

 

 

[Baerboxer]

On 10/21/2016 at 8:20 PM, baboon said:

I am all for charges being pressed against anyone where there is a reasonable suspicion of illegal / criminal activity whether some people are alienated or not. The suspect should of course be given legal representation and a transparent, fair trial, heard by impartial judge(s).

However if that is the case here, then I am the president of England. 

 

"The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable" springs to mind.

 

Nothing transparent in the rice scheme and its operations or in the pursuant investigations. Or likely to be.

 

No government, including the various Shin incarnations has attempted to reform a judicial process which they can all work to their favor. All politicians, civil servants, and anyone with a bob-or-two here think justice means " I get found not guilty regardless of any facts". And usually it does. 

 

 

[JAG]

44 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Ah your usual insulting response. Accuse people of paranoia just like those old East European communists did to any who dared challenge their nonsense. Whereas you clearly don't remain in reality.

 

Simple. Thaksin has told her to stay put. He wants her here. Nothing like an attractive photogenic "martyr" to help the cause. She's a good actress and dutiful little sister who does as her big brother tells her for the good of the family - and screw everyone else.

 

No, as someone who believes she was actually leading PTP and is an accomplished politician (even with zero experience before becoming PM - a veritable genius), maybe you would be kind enough to evidence that. Her political speeches - in parliament, in conference, her insightful TV interviews, her political accomplishment's etc etc. 

 

From your previous comments, is it reasonable to conclude, you believe she was in charge of the government when PM, selected and appointed all cabinet members and made all major decisions herself?

 

 

An insulting response eh?  Your first sentence says it all, you begin by accusing me of insulting you, compare me to an "Old East European communist", and end by saying  "clearly don't remain in reality" Yet whilst alert to any insult, you are it would seem incapable of accepting any constructive comment on the Shinawatra regimes, and lard your every response to anyone who dares to make any remotely positive comment with cries of" blinkers", "reality checks" and so on. I'm not the only person here who has commented on your obsession.

 

You advance a possible reason for her remaining. Fair enough. I don't find it very convincing, but then I don't have your profound knowledge of the Shinewatra family psyche. But at least you have put forward an alternative to my point.

 

You ask for "evidence", based upon your interpretation of what I believe. As this is not a court of law, but a forum for discussion, I am not going to provide any. I do seem to remember at least one fairly coherent television interview, you no doubt will remember it from the unfortunate phrase "I come from election". As for political speeches I haven't listened to (well read in translation) any. Political accomplishments, well, she won an election (now of course no longer a precursor to political prominence), she stood up with grace to the bullying of Suthep, she had the courage to call an election, which her opponents didn't have the courage to fight, and she didn't order the gunning down of the opposition protesters. What's more she retains much if not all her popularity with her electoral base.

 

Now I don't think that she was "in sole charge of the government when PM", but then that was always implicit throughout the campaign which resulted in her election. I doubt that could be said of her predecessor either, particularly during the events in Bangkok in April and May 2010. As for her successor well we simply don't know who is actually in charge now. But that doesn't mean that she doesn't retain any political ambition, and that is why I believe she is remaining in Thailand. Comr the time, she believes that the opposition to the junta will coalesce around her. She probably considers that worth the remote risk of imprisonment. If she is imprisoned it will probably strengthen her political appeal. I'm sure for you , as for the junta,  that is a most unpalatable prospect

[Banana7]

Only 35 billion baht?? Should be at least twice that.

[elliss]

On 10/21/2016 at 8:20 PM, baboon said:

 

 

  Thailand  is  now more secure, politically and financially  , THB  is stable  more  than it has been  for a long time .

    History , has proved demoncracy  is a  dream . Name me a country where  democracy works .

    Ugh   UK ,   Brexit ??  no chance ,    the electorate has spoken , jokers  ha ha ,     dream on , morons. 

[candide]

2 hours ago, elliss said:

 

  Thailand  is  now more secure, politically and financially  , THB  is stable  more  than it has been  for a long time .

    History , has proved demoncracy  is a  dream . Name me a country where  democracy works .

    Ugh   UK ,   Brexit ??  no chance ,    the electorate has spoken , jokers  ha ha ,     dream on , morons. 

Thailand is more stable,. Of course, the political faction that destabilised the country is in ( absolute) power now. They won't destabilise themselves, will they?

[JAG]

7 hours ago, elliss said:

 

  Thailand  is  now more secure, politically and financially  , THB  is stable  more  than it has been  for a long time .

    History , has proved demoncracy  is a  dream . Name me a country where  democracy works .

    Ugh   UK ,   Brexit ??  no chance ,    the electorate has spoken , jokers  ha ha ,     dream on , morons. 

Surely you mean "name me a country where democracy has resulted in a government of which I approve?

 

What history has shown in the case of Thailand is that a small number of extremely wealthy establishment figures, and the military which answers to them, are unable to accept the choice of the electorate, and are prepared to use force to get their way. Of course democracy works. It produces the government which the people choose. Where it fails is when the military, repeatedly overthrow it.

 

Incidentally, it works in the UK. As you say, "Brexit, the electorate has spoken". They have - unfortunately it was not what you wanted to hear. That is one of the possible results of democracy.

 

Until those "born to rule" here learn to accept the decision of the people democracy will continue to be repressed. Until posters such as you on TVF learn to accept the decision of the people we will continue to hear cries of " History , has proved democracy  is a  dream..." Much the same mindset really.

[baboon]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

Surely you mean "name me a country where democracy has resulted in a government of which I approve?

 

What history has shown in the case of Thailand is that a small number of extremely wealthy establishment figures, and the military which answers to them, are unable to accept the choice of the electorate, and are prepared to use force to get their way. Of course democracy works. It produces the government which the people choose. Where it fails is when the military, repeatedly overthrow it.

 

Incidentally, it works in the UK. As you say, "Brexit, the electorate has spoken". They have - unfortunately it was not what you wanted to hear. That is one of the possible results of democracy.

 

Until those "born to rule" here learn to accept the decision of the people democracy will continue to be repressed. Until posters such as you on TVF learn to accept the decision of the people we will continue to hear cries of " History , has proved democracy  is a  dream..." Much the same mindset really.

A much better comeback than the 'Seig Heil' I was going to respond with...

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

A much better comeback than the 'Seig Heil' I was going to respond with...

 

And ignoring the fact that the shin 'democracy model' is in fact a dictatorship, nothing more nothing less.

 

Perhaps the text book 'democracy' fans could post a methodology to get rid of an entrenched democracy  dictatorship? 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

 

And ignoring the fact that the shin 'democracy model' is in fact a dictatorship, nothing more nothing less.

 

Perhaps the text book 'democracy' fans could post a methodology to get rid of an entrenched democracy  dictatorship? 

Vote for somebody else in large enough numbers?

[Eric Loh]

16 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

 

Believing it "trickled down" into the wider economy is another fairy story. 

 

 

Apparently economic is not your favourite subject. While you rant about some pretty unintelligent economic theories, I refer to a more scientific measure on trickle down economic. Try looking up at the BOT revenue collection for last 5 years. You will learn a lot like 2012 was the highest revenue collected in Thai history and compare relatively miserably collection during junta government. 

[JAG]

Duplicate post deleted.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

And ignoring the fact that the shin 'democracy model' is in fact a dictatorship, nothing more nothing less.

 

Perhaps the text book 'democracy' fans could post a methodology to get rid of an entrenched democracy  dictatorship? 

 

1 hour ago, baboon said:

Vote for somebody else in large enough numbers?

 

Ironically this opportunity was presented by the "entrenched democracy dictatorship" , on both occasions it was challenged by the street protests. On both occasions it was variously blocked, because the opposition didn't have the courage to fight the election, the mob opposed the election, and the military, whilst finding themselves unable to take steps to enable a free election, reluctantly stepped in, dismissed the government and took power. Unconstitutional of course, but that's all right because they promptly tore up the constitution anyway. Still, at least it got rid of the wicked  "entrenched democracy dictatorship" which the electorate had chosen.

 

Phew - where would we have been if the democratic process had run it's course - we might have been into our 17th year of elected governments, what a terrifying thought. The electorate might have tired of Thaksin. The Democrats might even have persuaded the electorate to allow them to form a government! Thank goodness we can now all enjoy a proper no nonsense entrenched regime without the bother of having to obtain popular consent, eh?

[JAG]

27 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

Apparently economic is not your favourite subject. While you rant about some pretty unintelligent economic theories, I refer to a more scientific measure on trickle down economic. Try looking up at the BOT revenue collection for last 5 years. You will learn a lot like 2012 was the highest revenue collected in Thai history and compare relatively miserably collection during junta government. 

 

Ah look on the bright side - they think they've found a way of raising a quick 35 billion or so!

[robblok]

33 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

Ah look on the bright side - they think they've found a way of raising a quick 35 billion or so!

Yes great... recovering 35 billion from a 500 billion loss... wow... 

 

But on the bright side.. YL will probably not escape punishment. Unlike her brother the statute of limitation does not help her and she is not abroad so court-cases are stalled . 

[elliss]

On 10/22/2016 at 11:01 AM, JAG said:

I doubt that the money is "to hand".

She has had ample opportunity to run but she won't. The Junta's only real card left is to imprison her or place her under some sort of house arrest. This would only serve to increase her popularity, and her popularity is her trump card.

Yingluck is playing a long game. She knows that she is popular, 

 

On 10/22/2016 at 4:52 PM, tbthailand said:

       If she had  bought Thailands favourite   football team ,, Liverpool  out of  her petty cash ,  she would  still be in power .