May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I am not sure I agree with FPTP but overall I prefer it to PR and it's variants.

 

Different parties in Government take different stands but IMO this is better than stagnation.

 

A little blood letting (Labour) every now and then is better than the pressure building up (Tory).

 

And the world turns on and not much changes.

 

Indeed!  Which amply illustrates that the best minds are not in politics.  As it is now we have the easiest to understand and easiest to administer voting system, so that the electorate and candidates don't have to think too much    

 

 

[metisdead]

Offensive posts and replies have been removed. 

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Agreed - but it begs the question I posed......

"How many complaints have their been over that last year about the close-ness of the numerical result and the way the over-simplistic system referendum did not include more options? "

.......  There is obviously deep dis-satisfaction with the  way things turned out due to the voting system employed. 

Deep dis-satisfaction from the losing side but no complaints about method, referendum question, options or add-ons before the event!

 

The wording of the question was made clear well before the referendum. 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

What a relief then to benefit from the contribution of self-regarding personal potted histories from brexiteers who have pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps against all the odds.

 

Well I'm quite grateful that there are successful people who are able to contribute more in taxes.

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

What a relief then to benefit from the contribution of self-regarding personal potted histories from brexiteers who have pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps against all the odds.

 

Or dodgy financial traders endlessly boasting about what their ill-gotten gains have bought them .

[3NUMBAS]

Benefits and pensions and health care for 3 million plus migrants will bankrupt the UK!Plus millions more by leaving day! EU won't relinquish human rights control...Such is there overbearing coñtrol on everything ..It will be hard to dump them...

[Scott]

A post has been reported and removed.   Please stay on topic.  

[Johnyo]

Benefits and pensions and health care for 3 million plus migrants will bankrupt the UK!Plus millions more by leaving day! EU won't relinquish human rights control...Such is there overbearing coñtrol on everything ..It will be hard to dump them...

 

I tell you what, you deport 3 million EU expats back to their countries and the EU sends back the old U.K migrants retired across the EU. Whilst most Europeans in the U.K. are working and paying taxes the UK expats would only put a burden in the U.K. coffers. Deal?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, Johnyo said:

 

I tell you what, you deport 3 million EU expats back to their countries and the EU sends back the old U.K migrants retired across the EU. Whilst most Europeans in the U.K. are working and paying taxes the UK expats would only put a burden in the U.K. coffers. Deal?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

If the UK expats are retired, they will be claiming pensions anyway, so no change there. And, if they are not coming back to the UK for their medical treatment, the UK will be paying for it through the reciprocal arrangement with other EU countries anyway. So what will be the massive extra burden on the UK from them returning, other than the burden on the UK shops and companies of having to take their spending money off them (as opposed to the money being spent in other EU countries)?

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

Benefits and pensions and health care for 3 million plus migrants will bankrupt the UK!Plus millions more by leaving day! EU won't relinquish human rights control...Such is there overbearing coñtrol on everything ..It will be hard to dump them...

 

The country is heading toward bankruptcy just on benefits paid to UK citizens. And Corbyn and his loony left comrades want to increase this already insanely out-of-control free-for-all.

[jpinx]

Looks like the referendum was compromised from the start.?  There's no smoke without fire and behind every conspiracy theory there's a grain of truth....

 

"...........Was Britain’s EU referendum hijacked by the American alt-right using a technique known as psychographics?

BBC Newsnight’s Gabriel Gatehouse reports on the data analytics firm Cambridge Analytica........."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40423629/what-was-the-role-of-cambridge-analytica-and-psychographics-in-the-eu-referendum

[Johnyo]

 
If the UK expats are retired, they will be claiming pensions anyway, so no change there. And, if they are not coming back to the UK for their medical treatment, the UK will be paying for it through the reciprocal arrangement with other EU countries anyway. So what will be the massive extra burden on the UK from them returning, other than the burden on the UK shops and companies of having to take their spending money off them (as opposed to the money being spent in other EU countries)?

1 million + UK migrants returning at retirement age would be a huge burden on an already underfunded NHS whilst the revenue lost by the UK by European workers taxes would be significant. Look like we have a deal.


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[sandyf]

7 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

If the UK expats are retired, they will be claiming pensions anyway, so no change there. And, if they are not coming back to the UK for their medical treatment, the UK will be paying for it through the reciprocal arrangement with other EU countries anyway. So what will be the massive extra burden on the UK from them returning, other than the burden on the UK shops and companies of having to take their spending money off them (as opposed to the money being spent in other EU countries)?

Housing for one. Unable to sell their properties because the market is saturated they will look to the state for accommodation and housing benefit.

 

Do you really think that an NHS that has just lost a great deal of the workforce will cope with the additional workload, waiting times are already an issue. Of course when they get the £350 million they can retrain all the financial people from the city.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, nauseus said:

Deep dis-satisfaction from the losing side but no complaints about method, referendum question, options or add-ons before the event!

 

The wording of the question was made clear well before the referendum. 

That is a cop out. Do you really think that when people were stood in the ballot box that something that "was made clear well before the referendum." would be upper most on their mind.

 

Two simple questions - Is Norway an EU member state?  Is Norway in the single market?

The answers would indicate that being outside the EU does not mean not being in the single market.

What was the question on the ballot paper again?

[sandyf]

Is the UK heading into another drugs problem? The EMA is located in London and David Davis has some delusion that it can remain there although some of his mates are in favour of leaving the EMA. EU member states have already started making bids to host the EMA and EBA

 

Mr Hatswell said if the UK left the EMA, it would then have a choice: significantly expand its domestic regulator and slide down towards the bottom of the queue for new drugs or simply “rubber stamp” decisions made by the EMA without having any input into them.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-life-saving-drugs-access-catastrophic-effect-healthcare-treatment-expert-ema-mhra-a7810896.html

[sandyf]

 

As soon as Britain voted to leave the EU, the bloc’s other 27 member states began pondering the ways they could benefit from Brexit. Few issues have generated as much discussion as the relocation of two London-based EU agencies: the European Medicines Agency and the European Banking Authority.

The agencies are not huge — together they employ around 1,000 staff. But they are widely regarded as the jewels of the EU’s regulatory system. The EBA aims to provide a single set of harmonised prudential rules for financial institutions throughout the union. The EMA is responsible for monitoring the safety of medicines developed for use in the EU. It has played a significant role in attracting business and helping create an ecosystem of pharmaceutical companies in the UK.
https://www.ft.com/content/b9215c96-3faa-11e7-82b6-896b95f30f58?mhq5j=e1

 

[Grouse]

So what is the clear benefit of Brexit?

 

Come on, nobody's going home until I get an answer!

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

So what is the clear benefit of Brexit?

 

Come on, nobody's going home until I get an answer!

IMMHO. 

 

l was for Brexit although l reside in Thailand which is a bit hypocritical l know  because l wanted England to be free of a bunch of foreigners that we had fought against throughout history and be a independent England again making it's own decisions on who to trade with throughout the whole world like we use to not just within a silly club.

 

To be honest l'm not in anyway a finance world expert but seeing what was happening with Greece, Italy, Spain & Portugal and our massive debt what good has EU done.

 

The benefit is freedom.

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Kwasaki

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is a cop out. Do you really think that when people were stood in the ballot box that something that "was made clear well before the referendum." would be upper most on their mind.

 

Two simple questions - Is Norway an EU member state?  Is Norway in the single market?

The answers would indicate that being outside the EU does not mean not being in the single market.

What was the question on the ballot paper again?

No cop out. Necessary information was available to any voter who was interested enough.

The same as you can find the answers to the questions that you have answered yourself! 

  

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, Johnyo said:

 

1 million + UK migrants returning at retirement age would be a huge burden on an already underfunded NHS whilst the revenue lost by the UK by European workers taxes would be significant. Look like we have a deal.


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Eh??? What on earth are you going on about? Apart from the fact that a large proportion of them are already retired and claiming their UK state pension, anyone due to retire will also claim their state pension no matter whether they're living abroad or returning to the UK. So where's the huge burden going to come from?

[Grouse]

28 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

IMMHO. 

 

l was for Brexit although l reside in Thailand which is a bit hypocritical l know  because l wanted England to be free of a bunch of foreigners that we had fought against throughout history and be a independent England again making it's own decisions on who to trade with throughout the whole world like we use to not just within a silly club.

 

To be honest l'm not in anyway a finance world expert but seeing what was happening with Greece, Italy, Spain & Portugal and our massive debt what good has EU done.

 

The benefit is freedom.

 

We're not in the Euro

 

EU has been good for avoidance of European wars.

 

Who's fault is the debt?

 

The UK economy has benefited greatly from being in the EU - look it up 

[Kwasaki]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The UK economy has benefited greatly from being in the EU - look it up 

Disagree,  don't want to look it up sorry l'm British. 

 

 

[nauseus]

21 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We're not in the Euro

 

EU has been good for avoidance of European wars.

 

Who's fault is the debt?

 

The UK economy has benefited greatly from being in the EU - look it up 

We're not in the Euro - he didn't say we were.

 

EU has been good for avoidance of European wars - you cannot prove that!  

 

Who's fault is the debt? - Global fallout from the US sub prime policy/crash.

The Euro currency unsuitable for southern European countries.

 

The UK economy has benefited greatly from being in the EU - look it up  - in the Guardian? That comparison is impossible now.

.

 

[Johnyo]

 
Eh??? What on earth are you going on about? Apart from the fact that a large proportion of them are already retired and claiming their UK state pension, anyone due to retire will also claim their state pension no matter whether they're living abroad or returning to the UK. So where's the huge burden going to come from?

If you can't read that is not my problem.


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[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

If you can't read that is not my problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

What is there to read? You came up with a nonsensical argument that expats returning from the EU would be a huge burden on the UK. I showed you why the opposite would be the case. You have no answer to that. Just admit that you were wrong.

[jpinx]

Pensions are a red herring, they get paid to UK expats in EU anyway (and lots of other places like Phils) so there's no significant increased burden.  Benefits is where the wriggle-room is available.  Supporting EU nationals families when they come to UK is how many incoming survive in the ghettos of UK, but there are plenty of good incomers who do pay their way, start business and pay taxes, so that is a really tricky mess to sort out -- made worse by the chronic lack of tracking of incomers to see what they are actually doing - as Germany does. 

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

What is there to read? You came up with a nonsensical argument that expats returning from the EU would be a huge burden on the UK. I showed you why the opposite would be the case. You have no answer to that. Just admit that you were wrong.

Could depend whether EU expats end up getting frozen ones like us in Thailand.  

[Khun Han]

25 minutes ago, nauseus said:

54 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We're not in the Euro

 

EU has been good for avoidance of European wars.

 

Who's fault is the debt?

 

The UK economy has benefited greatly from being in the EU - look it up 

We're not in the Euro - he didn't say we were.

 

EU has been good for avoidance of European wars - you cannot prove that!  

 

Who's fault is the debt? - Global fallout from the US sub prime policy/crash.

The Euro currency unsuitable for southern European countries.

 

The UK economy has benefited greatly from being in the EU - look it up  - in the Guardian? That comparison is impossible now.

.

 

 

The UK economy has benefited greatly (in a highly imbalanced way) from getting militant trades unions under control and the loss of debt-ridden heavy industry. The EU is mostly incidental to this.

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Could depend whether EU expats end up getting frozen ones like us in Thailand.  

 

But the difference between frozen pensions and linked ones for a few hundred thousand people is hardly going to be a huge burden on the UK. Especially when you take into account the fact that they would be spending those pensions in the UK .

[jpinx]

37 minutes ago, nauseus said:

We're not in the Euro - he didn't say we were.

 

EU has been good for avoidance of European wars - you cannot prove that!  

 

Who's fault is the debt? - Global fallout from the US sub prime policy/crash.

The Euro currency unsuitable for southern European countries.

 

The UK economy has benefited greatly from being in the EU - look it up  - in the Guardian? That comparison is impossible now.

.

 

Before commenting -- read  Yanis Yarofakis's -  (former greek finance minister) book. He recounts how in the midst of the crisis the Greek Finance Minister cut a deal with the Chinese,  led and initiated by the Chinese Ambassador under instructions from Beijing - the deal was that the Chinese would buy 2 Billion Euros of Bonds from Greece because the Chinese had just bought the main Greek port and were keen to keep the economy going -- but a couple of days later the Ambassador came back and profusely apologised and said that a “call” had been received from Germany and the deal was off.   What more proof is needed to show that Germany  runs the EU *and* the euro.

 

But that requires an intelligent, educated and  interested electorate, currently not available in UK after generations of repressed education, divisive politics and a simplistic, ineffective FPTP voting system dumbed down for the benefit of the same masses who then suffer the consequences without ever realising that they can do better. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by jpinx