May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[pitrevie]

2 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

The power remains with the UK parliament, it can revoke any such external powers

Its as if this guy doesn't understand that laws from an earlier time can be overtaken by later laws. They are not the ten commandments engraved in stone. It doesn't matter what Margna Carta stated or any subsequent document states. Once Parliament established pre-eminence in law making in the late 17th century whatever they passed became the law of the land. 

The excerpt from the House of Commons own website states that Parliament can cede such sovereignty as they deem fit and there is nothing stopping any future government from from reversing that decision as happened in 2016. That is why we are and always have been a sovereign nation and why parliament is supreme in all matters of law unless they decide otherwise.

[billd766]

15 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Judging by the result of the referendum, yes.

Once again the nonsense about National Sovereignty. Yet in 2016 the British people were able to revoke the decision they made earlier. If we were no longer sovereign, if Parliament was no longer supreme then how did it manege that?

 

Back in 1975 I voted yes to joining the EEC.

 

If the truth was told back then and it was all about joining the EU I would have voted NO and so would most of the servicemen and women at RAF Wildenrath in Germany.

 

Does anybody know where I can buy a damn computer that can spell?

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by billd766
edited for bad spelling

[nontabury]

11 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Judging by the result of the referendum, yes.

Once again the nonsense about National Sovereignty. Yet in 2016 the British people were able to revoke the decision they made earlier. If we were no longer sovereign, if Parliament was no longer supreme then how did it manege that?

I don't know if you were around at the time of the 1975 referendum, but as someone who was, and who voted in that referendum to remain in the EEC trading block. I can assure you that I, and I believe the vast majority of the then electorate, would not have voted yes. If we had known that this would have entailed joining a political union,and with it, loss of national sovereignty.

This I believe is the crux of the problem we now have. 

[pitrevie]

6 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I don't know if you were around at the time of the 1975 referendum, but as someone who was, and who voted in that referendum to remain in the EEC trading block. I can assure you that I, and I believe the vast majority of the then electorate, would not have voted yes. If we had known that this would have entailed joining a political union,and with it, loss of national sovereignty.

This I believe is the crux of the problem we now have. 

Yes I was around at the time and I also think that now as then most people never bother themselves that much about the issues on which they are voting which is why referendums are such a waste of time. There is no doubt that most people who voted this time were voting against austerity and probably for a Britain that had disappeared long ago. Had Blair held this referendum at the height of his popularity it would have been a massive majority in favour.

[pitrevie]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Back in 1975 I voted yes to joining the EEC.

 

If the truth was told back then and it was all about joining the EU I would have voted NO and so would most of the servicemen and women at RAF Wildenrath in Germany.

 

Does anybody know where I can buy a damn computer that can spell?

 

So now you have taken to speaking on behalf of a RAF camp. Well I too was on a RAF camp in Germany and I wouldn't even presume to predict. I cannot even remember the views of even my closest colleagues at that time or even how they voted.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

2 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Judging by the result of the referendum, yes.

Once again the nonsense about National Sovereignty. Yet in 2016 the British people were able to revoke the decision they made earlier. If we were no longer sovereign, if Parliament was no longer supreme then how did it manege that?

I don't know if you were around at the time of the 1975 referendum, but as someone who was, and who voted in that referendum to remain in the EEC trading block. I can assure you that I, and I believe the vast majority of the then electorate, would not have voted yes. If we had known that this would have entailed joining a political union,and with it, loss of national sovereignty.

This I believe is the crux of the problem we now have. 

 

And the big problem is: we are only a short way down the road to federalisation at the moment. There will be a point in the journey where we will simply be unable to turn back.

[pitrevie]

10 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And the big problem is: we are only a short way down the road to federalisation at the moment. There will be a point in the journey where we will simply be unable to turn back.

Yeah right twenty years from now the Germans will be no less German, The French no less French. The Welsh and Scots have been tied to England for several hundred years are they any less Scottish or Welsh? 

Why don't you also add the name Great Britain will be abolished in favour of some nonsensical European concoction. 40 years into Europe and others even longer and not one of them could not do what the UK has done and that is leave. Despite your scare stories they are still all sovereign countries quite capable and able to make such a decision.

[nontabury]

46 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Yeah right twenty years from now the Germans will be no less German, The French no less French. The Welsh and Scots have been tied to England for several hundred years are they any less Scottish or Welsh? 

Why don't you also add the name Great Britain will be abolished in favour of some nonsensical European concoction. 40 years into Europe and others even longer and not one of them could not do what the UK has done and that is leave. Despite your scare stories they are still all sovereign countries quite capable and able to make such a decision.

You say that in 20yrs Germany will be no less German, and that France will be no less French. Can I respectably suggest that you take your head out of the Sand and watch and read the news.

 

 

 

 

[pitrevie]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You say that in 20yrs Germany will be no less German, and that France will be no less French. Can I respectably suggest that you take your head out of the Sand and watch and read the news.

 

 

 

 

You really shouldn't attribute your own ignorance or fantasies to others.

[Grouse]

In 1215 I voted for Magna Carta.

 

Does that make a difference?

[SheungWan]

48 minutes ago, Grouse said:

In 1215 I voted for Magna Carta.

 

Does that make a difference?

Baron Grouse

Edited August 30, 2017 by SheungWan

[nauseus]

Heath was playing Grand Theft Sovereignty in 1972 and he won the European Heavyweight Belt! 

[billd766]

6 hours ago, pitrevie said:

So now you have taken to speaking on behalf of a RAF camp. Well I too was on a RAF camp in Germany and I wouldn't even presume to predict. I cannot even remember the views of even my closest colleagues at that time or even how they voted.

 

You seem to be quite happy speaking for the people of the UK, so what is your problem?

[billd766]

6 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Yes I was around at the time and I also think that now as then most people never bother themselves that much about the issues on which they are voting which is why referendums are such a waste of time. There is no doubt that most people who voted this time were voting against austerity and probably for a Britain that had disappeared long ago. Had Blair held this referendum at the height of his popularity it would have been a massive majority in favour.

 

And you have done a survey of all the people in the UK to come to this conclusion?

 

Perhaps you should preface your remarks by saying "In my personal opinion".......

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Heath was playing Grand Theft Sovereignty in 1972 and he won the European Heavyweight Belt! 

Would we be presumptuous in saying that for your team they have all been Enemies Of The People since Thatcher?

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Would we be presumptuous in saying that for your team they have all been Enemies Of The People since Thatcher?

You are the presumptuous one just by asking that.

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

And you have done a survey of all the people in the UK to come to this conclusion?

 

Perhaps you should preface your remarks by saying "In my personal opinion".......

IMPO is very obvious for anyone who posts here but perhaps you need to be told.

 

 Says the man who made this comment "If the truth was told back then and it was all about joining the EU I would have voted NO and so would most of the servicemen and women at RAF Wildenrath in Germany."

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Would we be presumptuous in saying that for your team they have all been Enemies Of The People since Thatcher?

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

You are the presumptuous one just by asking that.

I'll take that as a Yes.

[melvinmelvin]

9 hours ago, pitrevie said:

So now you have taken to speaking on behalf of a RAF camp. Well I too was on a RAF camp in Germany and I wouldn't even presume to predict. I cannot even remember the views of even my closest colleagues at that time or even how they voted.

RAF

 

 

Rote Arme Fraktion

 

Brexit is heating up

 

[AlexRich]

12 hours ago, nauseus said:

Twisting again for your own purposes. The previous posts refer to entry not exit.

The prospect sends a shiver up your spine? A referendum on the terms? It will never happen ... until it does. 

[aright]

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

In 1215 I voted for Magna Carta.

 

Does that make a difference?

So did I. It was a great Champagne. In fact I bought 2 Jeroboams......apologies for the use of a foreign word.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

Sovereignty does not sit with the people, 

The coronation Oath Act 1688 , following the great revolution clearly puts sovereignty with parliament

It is a fairly significant fact that there has only ever been 3 national referendums in UK political history.

Nothing more than a government sponsored opinion poll.

[pitrevie]

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It is a fairly significant fact that there has only ever been 3 national referendums in UK political history.

Nothing more than a government sponsored opinion poll.

The government didn't even require a referendum to start the 2nd WW nor the suspension of all those rights acquired since Magna Carta. Parliament in the UK is supreme in all matters of law making in the UK, it can cede, suspend revoke those rights and then take them back again. Its the reason that no parliament can bind its successors to any course of action. Its simply called sovereignty something that Brexiters have difficulty grasping.

[Jip99]

19 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It is a fairly significant fact that there has only ever been 3 national referendums in UK political history.

Nothing more than a government sponsored opinion poll.

 

 

 

..... and government bound themselves in all three.

 

 

There have actually been 11 referendums in the UK since 1973.

 

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, AlexRich said:

The prospect sends a shiver up your spine? A referendum on the terms? It will never happen ... until it does. 

The prospect of Brexit gives me a pleasant tingling sensation everywhere, if that's what you mean? 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, pitrevie said:

The government didn't even require a referendum to start the 2nd WW nor the suspension of all those rights acquired since Magna Carta. Parliament in the UK is supreme in all matters of law making in the UK, it can cede, suspend revoke those rights and then take them back again. Its the reason that no parliament can bind its successors to any course of action. Its simply called sovereignty something that Brexiters have difficulty grasping.

The concept of sovereignty is clear to people who voted to leave. Membership of the EU has diminished parliamentary supremacy and the creation of a federation will mean the loss of British sovereignty completely. 

[billd766]

13 hours ago, pitrevie said:

IMPO is very obvious for anyone who posts here but perhaps you need to be told.

 

 Says the man who made this comment "If the truth was told back then and it was all about joining the EU I would have voted NO and so would most of the servicemen and women at RAF Wildenrath in Germany."

 

It is also fairly obvious that you tend to assune that you nknow more than anybody else and that you believe that your opinion carries more weight than anybody elses.

 

It doesn't.

[dick dasterdly]

On 8/30/2017 at 10:49 AM, rockingrobin said:

Sovereignty does not sit with the people, 

The coronation Oath Act 1688 , following the great revolution clearly puts sovereignty with parliament

How depressing is the above post - the people are pretty much irrelevant as power rests with parliament.

 

To look on the bright side, politicians have to be elected - and so can also  be not elected/lose their 'seat'.  Hence the confusion and scrambling, as MPs search for a way to nullify the brexit vote, whilst retaining their seats.

[rockingrobin]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

How depressing is the above post - the people are pretty much irrelevant as power rests with parliament.

 

To look on the bright side, politicians have to be elected - and so can also  be not elected/lose their 'seat'.  Hence the confusion and scrambling, as MPs search for a way to nullify the brexit vote, whilst retaining their seats.

Why is it depressing, before that it lied with the King and land Barons

[dick dasterdly]

On 8/30/2017 at 1:55 PM, billd766 said:

 

Back in 1975 I voted yes to joining the EEC.

 

If the truth was told back then and it was all about joining the EU I would have voted NO and so would most of the servicemen and women at RAF Wildenrath in Germany.

 

Does anybody know where I can buy a damn computer that can spell?

 

I was too young to vote, which is quite right as I didn't have much knowledge of the issues involved.

 

MANY years later I was taken by suprise to find out on a gulet trip (Turkey) that many of those in the Services were SO pro-royalist according to their parents.  Which only goes to show that even in my 30s, I still hadn't realised that those in the Forces supported 'the establishment' !

 

But I sympathise with your computer problems as I too am having ever increasing probs with my laptop.....