4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

..... and government bound themselves in all three.

 

 

There have actually been 11 referendums in the UK since 1973.

 

You should post on what you have read, not what you think you have read.

There have been only 3 national referendums, the other 8 were regional.

 

3 in the UK political history gives little credibility.

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You should post on what you have read, not what you think you have read.

There have been only 3 national referendums, the other 8 were regional.

 

3 in the UK political history gives little credibility.

 

I think the Welsh and Scots will take exception to that.

 

 

Government were still bound by the 3 you quote.

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

It is a fairly significant fact that there has only ever been 3 national referendums in UK political history.

Nothing more than a government sponsored opinion poll.

Quite.  And they screwed up badly on the brexit referendum - hence this thread.

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Quite.  And they screwed up badly on the brexit referendum - hence this thread.

Couldn't have put it better.

31 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

How depressing is the above post - the people are pretty much irrelevant as power rests with parliament.

 

To look on the bright side, politicians have to be elected - and so can also  be not elected/lose their 'seat'.  Hence the confusion and scrambling, as MPs search for a way to nullify the brexit vote, whilst retaining their seats.

 

24 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Why is it depressing, before that it lied with the King and land Barons

It would be a good point - except I mentioned in the 2nd para. of my post that at least politicians have to be elected and/or worry about re-election.

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Couldn't have put it better.

 

Such a shame that you are anti-democracy.

7 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

I think the Welsh and Scots will take exception to that.

 

 

Government were still bound by the 3 you quote.

What have you got against the Irish and Londoners?

 

I don't think the first 2 were legally binding but not going to argue the toss. The third certainly wasn't, the courts ruled parliament must decide. We live in a parliamentary democracy, not a popular democracy.

On 8/30/2017 at 4:21 PM, pitrevie said:

Yeah right twenty years from now the Germans will be no less German, The French no less French. The Welsh and Scots have been tied to England for several hundred years are they any less Scottish or Welsh? 

Why don't you also add the name Great Britain will be abolished in favour of some nonsensical European concoction. 40 years into Europe and others even longer and not one of them could not do what the UK has done and that is leave. Despite your scare stories they are still all sovereign countries quite capable and able to make such a decision.

That is the problem, individual national identities and cultures will be erased, if the EU federalists get their way and continue down their ever-closer path. A lot of people don't want to see that. The main problem for pro-leavers is the certainty that, unhindered, the European Unionists will complete their original mission to achieve a totally federal Europe.

 

If that happens there will be no way back, let alone any referendums. The former German Germans, French French, the Welsh Welsh and Scot Scots will say "what the hell just happened?". And it will be hell. This is by far the most critical issue for anyone with any foresight.

 

 

 

Off-topic, bickering and inflammatory posts and replies removed.  

 

On August 30, 2017 at 4:21 PM, pitrevie said:

Why don't you also add the name Great Britain will be abolished in favour of some nonsensical European concoction.

 

The British Empire is over.

Get used to calling it Britain or England.

 
The British Empire is over.
Get used to calling it Britain or England.

IIRC it's appropriate name is

Great Britain or United Kingdom.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

4 minutes ago, citybiker said:

IIRC it's appropriate name is
Great Britain or United Kingdom.

 

Rah, rah, rah...

 

In reality, they don't exist.

Nothing "United" about it.

England it is.

 

Get over it.

12 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Rah, rah, rah...

 

In reality, they don't exist.

Nothing "United" about it.

England it is.

 

Get over it.

 

You're being silly and childish. The name 'Britain' was coined by the Romans. It was amended to 'Great Britain' as an acknowledgment to the union with Wales, Ireland and Scotland. Nothing to do with anything or anyone being great, amazing or fantastic.

 

And if you think that the Union is about to fall apart, you are truly deluded. Wales voted for brexit. Scotland kyboshed independence at the last general election. Northern Ireland has unique problems that preclude independence.

I think its quite clear...the EU dont want to negotiate anything.

They have the whip hand ,so why should they?

We should withdraw from these talks.

If the EU wishes to offer anything,then they can come to us.

Yes...it means a very hard Brexit,but I think its for the best

15 minutes ago, gennisis said:

I think its quite clear...the EU dont want to negotiate anything.

They have the whip hand ,so why should they?

We should withdraw from these talks.

If the EU wishes to offer anything,then they can come to us.

Yes...it means a very hard Brexit,but I think its for the best

 

just withdraw, snap, like that?

 

would probably result in some eyebrows aiming for the stars (around the world)

 

just withdrawing and then brexit without sorting out rights/obligations of EU citizens in UK

and UK citizens in EU

would be a shame somewhat greater than huge and a bit

 

would likely tarnish UKs image and make future trade arrangements around the world difficult,

trustworthiness and integrity gone - who would like to deal?

 

You read it here first, or at least you might have read it if you were here on Aug. 30, 2016. If the moderators don't provide a link, click on my name. The relevant post is currently running on page 11.

Nice headline from the BBC this morning.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41119870

 

The UK must not allow itself to be "blackmailed" by the EU over its Brexit settlement bill in order to start trade talks, International Trade Secretary Liam Fox has said.

 

He said a bad Brexit deal would damage both British and European companies.

I would like to thank the EU negotiating team and Barnier. I bet he had a few great nick names at school.

The EU are showing exactly why people voted to leave. With their aggressive, bullish and arrogance tactics they are really making some people who voted remain, seeing for what they are. Besides those who believe the Biased BBC reporting, people who voted remain are getting angry at the way they are demanding, and trying to punish the UK,  for daring to say, well we want to leave. We tried it, it didn't work and you weren't flexible enough when we asked.

 

Thank you to the EU you for making even those who voted leave, hate you. Never under estimate pride, patriotism and the family. You can ridicule and criticize others but say it about a family member or your countrymen and you could see a backlash. The foolish behavior, is to the leave campaigns benefit. Like the bully in the school playground, they always end up with a bloody nose, eventually.

 

Keep it up Barnier (Barnpot) you are doing a great job at angering the people of the UK.

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I would like to thank the EU negotiating team and Barnier. I bet he had a few great nick names at school.

The EU are showing exactly why people voted to leave. With their aggressive, bullish and arrogance tactics they are really making some people who voted remain, seeing for what they are. Besides those who believe the Biased BBC reporting, people who voted remain are getting angry at the way they are demanding, and trying to punish the UK,  for daring to say, well we want to leave. We tried it, it didn't work and you weren't flexible enough when we asked.

 

Thank you to the EU you for making even those who voted leave, hate you. Never under estimate pride, patriotism and the family. You can ridicule and criticize others but say it about a family member or your countrymen and you could see a backlash. The foolish behavior, is to the leave campaigns benefit. Like the bully in the school playground, they always end up with a bloody nose, eventually.

 

Keep it up Barnier (Barnpot) you are doing a great job at angering the people of the UK.

 

The current beeb report on Liam Fox's comments is a rarity. Though at least the beeb is reporting the facts and reality these days, though they are usually at the bottom of articles which headline and push the EU pov first.

You find me on the high speed (300km/h) renfe / SNCF train from Zaragoza to Perpignan. Great food, great wine!

 

It's great to be truely European! Uplifting actually! A cognac I think.....here's to civilisation!

 

(The electric locomotives are not imported from Japan and the French/Spanish have fully electrified lines - embarrassing)

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You find me on the high speed (300km/h) renfe / SNCF train from Zaragoza to Perpignan. Great food, great wine!

 

It's great to be truely European! Uplifting actually! A cognac I think.....here's to civilisation!

 

(The electric locomotives are not imported from Japan and the French/Spanish have fully electrified lines - embarrassing)

Have a nice holiday, Grouse. I remember doing a similar trip, pre EU of course!

49 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Have a nice holiday, Grouse. I remember doing a similar trip, pre EU of course!

 

I'm not sure why we all have to be subjugated by Germany to enjoy what the poster you quoted describes, but I'm damn sure he and his ilk will come up with some convoluted theory-or-other as to why it came about through politics and not industry and business.

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

I'm not sure why we all have to be subjugated by Germany to enjoy what the poster you quoted describes, but I'm damn sure he and his ilk will come up with some convoluted theory-or-other as to why it came about through politics and not industry and business.

Um?

As predicted.
Nobody knows exactly what Brexit is now in detail.
Soft Brexit, Hard Brexit, we pay nothing, we pay x Euros..... , extended exit period, yes/no, bla.

 

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Um?

 

What I meant was: does anyone know what the experience described by the poster you quoted have to do with the EU?

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

What I meant was: does anyone know what the experience described by the poster you quoted have to do with the EU?

It's about Schengen, long term investment in infrastructure to increase efficiency and joie de vivre generally ?

 

Exploring Cathar castles tomorrow (in between liquid refreshments). Oh, I rented an Alfa Giulietta just to keep up the euro theme. Such brio! 

 

I like being European ?

Edited September 1, 20178 yr by Grouse
My poor French spelling!

23 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're being silly and childish. The name 'Britain' was coined by the Romans. It was amended to 'Great Britain' as an acknowledgment to the union with Wales, Ireland and Scotland. Nothing to do with anything or anyone being great, amazing or fantastic.

And I always thought it was to distinguish the Stuart domain from the French province.

9 minutes ago, Richard W said:

And I always thought it was to distinguish the Stuart domain from the French province.

The name 'Britain' or the name 'Great Britain'?.

23 hours ago, gennisis said:

I think its quite clear...the EU dont want to negotiate anything.

They have the whip hand ,so why should they?

We should withdraw from these talks.

If the EU wishes to offer anything,then they can come to us.

Yes...it means a very hard Brexit,but I think its for the best

I wonder why when it comes to brexit, legality goes out the window.

I was reading a great article (I think it was in The Times) on the plane last night likening the UK's negotiating antics with those of the ex-finance minister of Greece, Varoufakis. Running around accusing Germany of this and that, hoping to split the EU, hoping to play for time, making instead obvious to those he was negotiating with that there was no negotiating position on the Greek side. Sound familiar? We know how that one ended.

UK role model: