May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[melvinmelvin]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

It is about time the brexiteers woke up to the potential consequences of tariffs. Of course they live in the hope that the US would not try and screw the UK in the same way as they are trying to screw the Canadians.

 

A Government spokeswoman said: “”This is a disappointing interim statement but only the first step in the process. As the Prime Minister said last week, we will continue to strongly defend UK interests in support of Bombardier at the very highest level because an adverse outcome risks jobs and livelihoods among the 4,200 skilled workers in Belfast.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/bombardier-planes-import-tariff-us-beoing-dispute-220-percent-northern-ireland-jobs-at-risk-a7969261.html

typical government reaction

 

support a Canadian company at the very highest level

challenge the way the US government is conducting its business with Canada

 

bah!

 

what a waste of resources

 

if there are skilled workers in NI;

assist them in establishing manufacturing of smth which is marketable and sought after

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

It is about time the brexiteers woke up to the potential consequences of tariffs. Of course they live in the hope that the US would not try and screw the UK in the same way as they are trying to screw the Canadians.

 

A Government spokeswoman said: “”This is a disappointing interim statement but only the first step in the process. As the Prime Minister said last week, we will continue to strongly defend UK interests in support of Bombardier at the very highest level because an adverse outcome risks jobs and livelihoods among the 4,200 skilled workers in Belfast.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/bombardier-planes-import-tariff-us-beoing-dispute-220-percent-northern-ireland-jobs-at-risk-a7969261.html

Whither F35?

 

why are we buying VTOL STOL fighters from these people? 

 

More than orange hot air is required as far as my time at Hawker Siddeley Dynamics informs me!

 

Dont forget TSR-2

Edited September 27, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, aright said:

It's not all gloom and doom then.

 

Britain has become a happier country since the Brexit vote, according to official figures.

They found that the chart of happiness and confidence levels rose in the 12 months ending in March – most of which followed last June's referendum.

The Office for National Statistics, which has gathered the happiness records for six years, expressed 'surprise' at the mood at a time of 'political change and uncertainty.'

But the results of detailed surveys questioning Britons on their personal well-being appear to reflect the impact of both historically high employment and a radically changed political climate.

The Brexit bounce findings come from a period which finished 18 days before Theresa May's April announcement of a June general election – the outcome of which may have altered many attitudes.

The ONS figures follow a major international poll published earlier this month which found Britain was more at ease with itself and less racked by tension over immigration in the wake of the EU referendum.

The IPSOS Social Research Institute found worries over immigration are lessening, and suggested that many people are reassured that leaving the EU will mean more control over immigration in future.

Happiness and life satisfaction ratings have ticked to 7.51 and 7.68 out of 10 in the year to March, the ONS report said, both up by 0.03 points on the previous year.

The change was said to be 'significant', although there were no similar improvements in measures of anxiety and whether people think their lives are worthwhile.

There was however an increase in numbers of people reporting very high levels of life satisfaction and feeling that living is worthwhile.

In the year to March some 30 per cent of people were recorded in the 'very high satisfaction' bracket, up by 0.8 per cent in a year, and by nearly four per cent since 2012.

The ONS said there had been regular increases in satisfaction levels before 2015, but a levelling off from the spring of 2015.

ONS spokesman Matthew Steel said: 'The figures may surprise some, showing a small increase in both happiness and life satisfaction during a period that has seen political change and uncertainty.

'It is worth noting that employment rates rose during the period covered by this report, and other ONS analysis showed people perceiving an improvement in their own financial situations and in the overall economy. 

'These are factors we believe may account for some people's increased sense of personal wellbeing.'

The report added: 'Employment or job satisfaction, our health, the quality of our relationships and our personal financial security are just some of the aspects of our lives shown to have an effect. 

'Over time, changes and differences between areas could be related to these factors.

'Over the year that this publication covers, various situations of uncertainty, not least in political terms have unfolded in the UK. For example, the UK public voted on the EU referendum and there was a new Prime Minister appointed.'

It said it was 'interesting' that other surveys have found increased economic confidence among ordinary people over the past year.

In addition to this, the ONS said, the 'employment rate is at its highest since comparable records began in 1971. The unemployment rate is at its joint lowest since 1975.'

The happiness surveys were ordered by David Cameron after he became Prime Minister in 2010, with the aim of providing evidence beyond traditional economic statistics on which to base government policies.

They involve a series of questions added to the ONS Annual Population Survey, a large-scale poll which consults 320,000 people. 

Those taking part are asked to say on a scale of one to 10 how happy they were yesterday, how satisfied with their life, how much they felt their life was worthwhile, and how anxious they felt.

 

Last time I were happy was 1972. Sun came out...

[mommysboy]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Last time I were happy was 1972. Sun came out...

 

It came out rather a lot in 76 as I recall.

 

But I take your point.

[aright]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Last time I were happy was 1972. Sun came out...

Was that the year you left Blighty  and went to sunnier climes?   

 

Some more serious questions for you.

Just recently Macron's party in France got 32% of the vote on a 42% turnout and was hailed a strong leader.

Even more recently  Merkels  party got  33% of the vote on a 76% turnout and is regarded a strong leader. 

At our National election Mrs May got 42% of the vote on a 70% turnout and is regarded a weak leader.

Do you find this anomalous?

 

To carry the analysis a little further. Because of Angela's stats (33% of the vote on a 76% turnout)  this means that only 25% of the German population voted for her. Almost as many failed to vote at all.

Do you regard this to be a mandate for her to continue her dominance of decision making in the European Union?

 

Do you feel it might be time for Mrs Merkel to ask Mrs May for advice?

 

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

typical government reaction

 

support a Canadian company at the very highest level

challenge the way the US government is conducting its business with Canada

 

bah!

 

what a waste of resources

 

if there are skilled workers in NI;

assist them in establishing manufacturing of smth which is marketable and sought after

There is no dispute that the fact that that factory is producing parts for a Canadian aircraft and not building a British aircraft is down to the UK government, but that is history.

The brexiteers have voted to risk the possibility of a WTO tariff regime without any understanding of the potential consequences, this may be a hard lesson on unregulated trade agreements.

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Dont forget TSR-2

Forget it!!, that was supposed to be my future workload. Last year I stood alongside the only one that ever flew. 

[Srikcir]

10 hours ago, aright said:

Do you feel it might be time for Mrs Merkel to ask Mrs May for advice?

Merkel has been the Chancellor of Germany since 2005 vs May has been PM for little more than a year.

As the longest-serving home secretary in over a century, May stood with Cameron in opposing “Brexit” in 2016. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Theresa-May

 

Perhaps May should be asking Merkel for advice.

[Naam]

11 hours ago, aright said:

Do you feel it might be time for Mrs Merkel to ask Mrs May for advice?

[Grouse]

12 hours ago, aright said:

Was that the year you left Blighty  and went to sunnier climes?   

 

Some more serious questions for you.

Just recently Macron's party in France got 32% of the vote on a 42% turnout and was hailed a strong leader.

Even more recently  Merkels  party got  33% of the vote on a 76% turnout and is regarded a strong leader. 

At our National election Mrs May got 42% of the vote on a 70% turnout and is regarded a weak leader.

Do you find this anomalous?

 

To carry the analysis a little further. Because of Angela's stats (33% of the vote on a 76% turnout)  this means that only 25% of the German population voted for her. Almost as many failed to vote at all.

Do you regard this to be a mandate for her to continue her dominance of decision making in the European Union?

 

Do you feel it might be time for Mrs Merkel to ask Mrs May for advice?

 

 

 

 

 

Ah! the wise guys are out on form!

 

1) Do you know what coalition government means?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_coalition_governments

 

I know, its a very rare thing!

 

It means that parties have to co-operate! AND, one is much more likely to be able to identify a party that more closely mirrors one's own beliefs.

 

2) Turnout when voting is not mandatory tends to reflect the degree of dissatisfaction v apathy or ambivalence. I guess the situation in France and Germany is not quite so febrile as that in the UK for obvious reasons

 

My comment on 1972 was a meaningless bon mot. However, that was the year that I went up to university complete with long hair, flairs and a slide rule! Halcyon days 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Forget it!!, that was supposed to be my future workload. Last year I stood alongside the only one that ever flew. 

And now we are beholden to the Americans and Boeing in particular for military aircraft while they shaft us from behind at the same time!

 

Great idea that!

 

I wonder what the Brexiters make of the Eurofighter?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon

 

You will note that France still retains a full military aircraft capability?

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Grouse

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

There is no dispute that the fact that that factory is producing parts for a Canadian aircraft and not building a British aircraft is down to the UK government, but that is history.

The brexiteers have voted to risk the possibility of a WTO tariff regime without any understanding of the potential consequences, this may be a hard lesson on unregulated trade agreements.

 

It used to be Short Brothers and they produced the Belfast for the RAF.

 

All 10 of them and there is only one left I think in a museum.

 

Shorts were sold to Bombadier back in 1989.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Brothers

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

It used to be Short Brothers and they produced the Belfast for the RAF.

 

All 10 of them and there is only one left I think in a museum.

 

Shorts were sold to Bombadier back in 1989.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Brothers

 

 

 

 

What about the 160 units of Short 360 - commuter turboprob

 

Long distinguished history including the Sunderland and many coastal command aircraft

 

But, it's only manufacturing so May doesn't really care...

 

Time for DUP to show their colours! Oh well.....?

[Grouse]

http://m.aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/against-brexit-backdrop-can-uk-remain-leading-wing-manufacturer

 

Wing design is NP Hard.

 

We are experts

 

Trouble is the Cons don't understand ANYTHING technical. Sooo depressing!

 

( for clarity:

 

"NP-hardness (non-deterministic polynomial-time hardness), in computational complexity theory, is the defining property of a class of problems that are, informally, "at least as hard as the hardest problems in NP".)

Edited September 28, 2017 by Grouse
Clarity

[aright]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

You will note that France still retains a full military aircraft capability?

 

Over half their aircraft are Mirage 2000's which had their design roots in the 80's.

No Typhoons, arguably the best combat aircraft in the world or Tornados.

I would concede however that Mirage 2000's do have a place if you want to declare war on Chad or Mali.

 

[Grouse]

40 minutes ago, aright said:

Over half their aircraft are Mirage 2000's which had their design roots in the 80's.

No Typhoons, arguably the best combat aircraft in the world or Tornados.

I would concede however that Mirage 2000's do have a place if you want to declare war on Chad or Mali.

 

Showing your age?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale

 

Very successful!

 

My point is that I'm unsure if we could actually produce military or commercial aircraft in house. No pedants please, I don't care about helicopters!

 

Eurofighters are terrific!

 

 

We're stronger together!

Edited September 28, 2017 by Grouse

[aright]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Showing your age?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale

 

Very successful!

 

My point is that I'm unsure if we could actually produce military or commercial aircraft in house. No pedants please, I don't care about helicopters!

 

Eurofighters are terrific!

Showing their age actually and responding to your claim that "they have full military aircraft capability" and suggesting   we don't. The Rafale is a very good aircraft but they only have 120 of them. The UK has 145  Typhoons and 60 Tornados. 

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, aright said:

Showing their age actually and responding to your claim that "they have full military aircraft capability" and suggesting   we don't. The Rafale is a very good aircraft but they only have 120 of them. The UK has 145  Typhoons and 60 Tornados. 

I agree completely!

 

But can we still build a complete aircraft in house?

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I agree completely!

 

But can we still build a complete aircraft in house?

Don't worry - the coming EUAF will employ a lot of Fokkers!

Edited September 28, 2017 by nauseus

[aright]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I agree completely!

 

But can we still build a complete aircraft in house?

That's a very interesting question which was discussed in the Pub with my mate Dick Wright. I may have mentioned him before . It was his contention that in 45 years of the European Union no member state has produced a global super business. Airbus doesn't count because it is/was a conglomerate. Other super businesses like Rolls Royce Engines, Mercedes and others were already inexistence when the EU was formed.

His argument rang along the lines of "What have the Romans ever done for us Reg"

[mommysboy]

Corbyn is a master orator and surprisingly charismatic.  Labour seem to be backing the winning horse, while Cons. stumble from one bungle to another with the Maybot continually underwhelming.  I wonder if there is a sea change in British politics.  We've had 40 years of unbridled Neo-Liberalism that just about worked when people got paid enough, but the wheels do seem to have come off lately.  If Labour get in, Brexit will be quite different.  Who would have thought Britain woould be heading back to Socialism? 

 

 

[aright]

Todays paper accuses Jeremy  of making £312 billion worth of promises in his Conference speech which if in power he could not afford to fund. 

He holds true to Mrs Thatcher's comment The problem with Socialism is what do you do when you have run out of spending other people's money?

[Jip99]

20 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Corbyn is a master orator and surprisingly charismatic.  Labour seem to be backing the winning horse, while Cons. stumble from one bungle to another with the Maybot continually underwhelming.  I wonder if there is a sea change in British politics.  We've had 40 years of unbridled Neo-Liberalism that just about worked when people got paid enough, but the wheels do seem to have come off lately.  If Labour get in, Brexit will be quite different.  Who would have thought Britain woould be heading back to Socialism? 

 

 

 

 

Not it a cat in hell's chance..... (IMO).

[mommysboy]

12 minutes ago, aright said:

Todays paper accuses Jeremy  of making £312 billion worth of promises in his Conference speech which if in power he could not afford to fund. 

He holds true to Mrs Thatcher's comment The problem with Socialism is what do you do when you have run out of spending other people's money?

That's rich!

 

It's a simple choice of socialism for the wealthy or for the poor.

 

The wealthy seemed to have had their turn. 

 

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Not it a cat in hell's chance..... (IMO).

I'd say there is a chance.  It wouldn't be the first time Labour have been elected with a highly charasmatic leader who promised it all, would it?

 

Also, Labour were elected on a Socialist platform in 1945. 

 

If it does happen: expect the single market at the very least.

[Jip99]

25 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I'd say there is a chance.  It wouldn't be the first time Labour have been elected with a highly charasmatic leader who promised it all, would it?

 

Also, Labour were elected on a Socialist platform in 1945. 

 

If it does happen: expect the single market at the very least.

 

I think there was an element of protest about the last election results and, yes, the Torres are in disarray. However, I think if push comes to shove, the students will not fall for the same blarney next time round and, beyond the diehard socialists, no one really wants to see Corbyn as PM. Remember, is was only 5 minutes ago that his own party tried to oust him.....

[mommysboy]

13 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

I think there was an element of protest about the last election results and, yes, the Torres are in disarray. However, I think if push comes to shove, the students will not fall for the same blarney next time round and, beyond the diehard socialists, no one really wants to see Corbyn as PM. Remember, is was only 5 minutes ago that his own party tried to oust him.....

Eh!

He's incredibly popular.

Just saying though, all the omens are there, and Brexit is a real millstone around the Government's neck.

I do see your point though- England is essentially right wing.

The electorate is incredibly fickle these days and both parties have contributed to an insane over-expectations about life. 

Another factor is people like change and a positive vision, whatever it is.  This combined with an increasing sense of despair could produce a landslide quite easily imo.  Not saying it will, but your insistence that it won't is way off the mark imo.  50/50. 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by mommysboy

[billd766]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Todays paper accuses Jeremy  of making £312 billion worth of promises in his Conference speech which if in power he could not afford to fund. 

He holds true to Mrs Thatcher's comment The problem with Socialism is what do you do when you have run out of spending other people's money?

 

Wrongly credited to Denis Healey as Chancellor of the Exchequer.

 

squeeze property speculators until the pips squeak

Speech in Lincoln on 18 February 1974 (The Times, 19 February 1974; p. 4; Issue 59018; col D)

Misreported as "tax the rich until the pips squeak"

"the pips squeak" metaphor was originated by Sir Eric Campbell-Geddes and later used by David Lloyd-George.

It has never been my nature, I regret to admit to the House, to turn the other cheek.

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

But can we still build a complete aircraft in house?

IMO yes we can, unfortunately we can't fund it.

[Grouse]

We need a different electoral system. Now.