May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

this OECD report mentioned above

 

does it originate from internal think tank amongst OECD emplyoees or is it authorised

for publication by one of the upper level committees in one of the OECD "branches"?

anybody knows?

 

 

 

 

The Independent has been full of doom, apparently sourced from the OECD. Looking at the OECD site I can't find the exact report, although there are a few. The only recent one I can see is titled:

 

United Kingdom: Maintain close ties with EU to meet challenges of Brexit

 

http://www.oecd.org/economy/united-kingdom-maintain-close-ties-with-eu-to-meet-challenges-of-brexit.htm

 

So the quotes in the Independent are vague (surprise) without named sources.

 

Don't forget that more than 50% of primary OECD funding comes from EU countries, so the influence is considerable. The OECD was largely formed by European countries (in France) and the European Commission retains significant influence, which is obviously a bad thing.  

[Grouse]

Now then,

 

Just watched "The Railway Children" on ITV3!

 

I've realised three things: I Iove Yorkshire, I love steam trains and I love Jenny Agutter!

 

Night all ?

[Jip99]

28 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Now then,

 

Just watched "The Railway Children" on ITV3!

 

I've realised three things: I Iove Yorkshire, I love steam trains and I love Jenny Agutter!

 

Night all ?

 

A true romantic!?

 

If we are drifting off topic I would just chip in with “Walkabout”.

 

 

 

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Now then,

 

Just watched "The Railway Children" on ITV3!

 

I've realised three things: I Iove Yorkshire, I love steam trains and I love Jenny Agutter!

 

Night all ?

When can we expect thee back in Yorkshire lad. Yorkshire needs enterpratnoors like thee.

To be honest lad, Yorkshire is not what it used to be.

When I was lad we had no peediofiles  lurking in the Ginnels we ad to buy our own sweets, so think on. 

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

A true romantic!?

 

If we are drifting off topic I would just chip in with “Walkabout”.

 

 

 

 

Big fan of Nic Roeg, but I thought Walkabout sailed a bit too close to the edge.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Big fan of Nic Roeg, but I thought Walkabout sailed a bit too close to the edge.

 

Mixing my metaphors. Sailed a bit too close to the wind.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Mixing my metaphors. Sailed a bit too close to the wind.

You must be a Yes fan.

[Khun Han]

 Some of the political classes appear to be actually listening:

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/staunch-remainer-ken-clarke-says-094938132.html

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You must be a Yes fan.

 

Nah, a bit effete for me. King Crimson, actually.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic.  

[Grouse]

OK, Sunday matinee over!

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41716283

 

Think about this

 

Lowest wage growth for 200 years but quoted companies are booming

 

Much of the increased net profits are directly due to weak Sterling

 

Do you think this might:

 

A) stimulate continued dissatisfaction in the workforce? (Blame the EU!)

 

 encourage slavering right wing CONS to go for no deal and consequent further drop in Sterling?

 

(BTW, watch the USD rocket when they dump the Trump ?)

 

 

[bert bloggs]

19 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-oecd-eu-referendum-second-economy-reverse-uk-europe-theresa-may-latest-a8004676.html

 

Last nail in Brexit coffin?

 

or was May's coughin the last nail?

The Independent ,only sold at airports .

[melvinmelvin]

11 hours ago, nauseus said:

The Independent has been full of doom, apparently sourced from the OECD. Looking at the OECD site I can't find the exact report, although there are a few. The only recent one I can see is titled:

 

United Kingdom: Maintain close ties with EU to meet challenges of Brexit

 

http://www.oecd.org/economy/united-kingdom-maintain-close-ties-with-eu-to-meet-challenges-of-brexit.htm

 

So the quotes in the Independent are vague (surprise) without named sources.

 

Don't forget that more than 50% of primary OECD funding comes from EU countries, so the influence is considerable. The OECD was largely formed by European countries (in France) and the European Commission retains significant influence, which is obviously a bad thing.  

 

think I found it,

it is likely the most recent country surveys (about UK) that OECD writes and publishes regularly,

and publication is authorised

 

however, these bits about staying close to EU and using a 2nd referendum as a way out

are picks from press releases based on the country survey,

as far as I can understand

 

according to the OECD boss this bit about using a 2nd referendum as a tool to stay and survive

was part of a list of possible measures that could be taken in order to mitigate undesirable effects

 

well may be or may be not, requires some digging to verify if thats true or not

 

have spent years in OECD myself,

this is a first for me; seeing OECD stepping right into the middle of an ongoing sensitive and heated

political debate in a member country

 

I think I find this somewhat over the top, OECD should have shown some moderation here.

 

(haven't really seen much direct EC influence/dominance in OECD except through the natural influence

  coming from the fact that many of the OECD members are also EU members

 

 OECD has done some very very good work up through the years, some excellent people

 working there, at least as far as my field is concerned)

 

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

The Independent ,only sold at airports .

Actually, it's only online!

 

Do you have a computer?

[sandyf]

On 10/21/2017 at 5:33 PM, Grouse said:

Entirely relevant for the typical holidaymaker off to the Costas. They don't maintain multi currency offshore accounts like what we do eh?

Quite. There is many a brexiteer going to face up to the error of their ways when the cost of going to the Costa Del Fortune comes home to roost. Stag nights in Prague or Amsterdam will become a luxury of the wealthy.

In 1985 I flew to Amsterdam for the day and cheapest fare was around £300. So much better before the single market.

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

OK, Sunday matinee over!

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41716283

 

Think about this

 

Lowest wage growth for 200 years but quoted companies are booming

 

Much of the increased net profits are directly due to weak Sterling

 

Do you think this might:

 

A) stimulate continued dissatisfaction in the workforce? (Blame the EU!)

 

 encourage slavering right wing CONS to go for no deal and consequent further drop in Sterling?

 

(BTW, watch the USD rocket when they dump the Trump ?)

 

 

Wage growth has been sluggish/non-existent/falling (in real terms) for decades now,  as large companies 'restructure'/downsize etc.  Apart, of course, for those at the top of the hierarchy.  i.e. this has nothing to do with the brexit vote.

 

Consequently, companies directing increased profits resulting from the fall in sterling towards higher dividends and (no doubt) bonuses for those at the top of said companies, comes as no suprise.....

 

But I did like the following part of the quoted article:-

 

"Stephan Stern, director of the High Pay Centre, said it is undeniable that people benefit from higher dividends through pensions and investments, but added that some of the money could be put to better use.

"People need a pay rise," he said. "And companies need to invest for the future in skills and training, and to improve productivity."

He was also suspicious about motives of companies that make their shares attractive by paying higher dividends. "Top executives have an incentive to keep shares up, because they will benefit from healthy bonuses," he said."

 

 

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Wage growth has been sluggish/non-existent/falling (in real terms) for decades now,  as large companies 'restructure'/downsize etc.  Apart, of course, for those at the top of the hierarchy.  i.e. this has nothing to do with the brexit vote.

 

Consequently, companies directing increased profits resulting from the fall in sterling towards higher dividends and (no doubt) bonuses for those at the top of said companies, comes as no suprise.....

 

But I did like the following part of the quoted article:-

 

"Stephan Stern, director of the High Pay Centre, said it is undeniable that people benefit from higher dividends through pensions and investments, but added that some of the money could be put to better use.

"People need a pay rise," he said. "And companies need to invest for the future in skills and training, and to improve productivity."

He was also suspicious about motives of companies that make their shares attractive by paying higher dividends. "Top executives have an incentive to keep shares up, because they will benefit from healthy bonuses," he said."

 

 

You misunderstood my point

 

Poor or nonexistent wage growth has fuelled discontent generally and was one of the main causes (possibly subliminally) for voting for Brexit.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Quite. There is many a brexiteer going to face up to the error of their ways when the cost of going to the Costa Del Fortune comes home to roost. Stag nights in Prague or Amsterdam will become a luxury of the wealthy.

In 1985 I flew to Amsterdam for the day and cheapest fare was around £300. So much better before the single market.

In those days the way to Amsterdam was by train and ferry. Now the train is the luxury!

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Wage growth has been sluggish/non-existent/falling (in real terms) for decades now,  as large companies 'restructure'/downsize etc.  Apart, of course, for those at the top of the hierarchy.  i.e. this has nothing to do with the brexit vote.

 

Consequently, companies directing increased profits resulting from the fall in sterling towards higher dividends and (no doubt) bonuses for those at the top of said companies, comes as no suprise.....

 

But I did like the following part of the quoted article:-

 

"Stephan Stern, director of the High Pay Centre, said it is undeniable that people benefit from higher dividends through pensions and investments, but added that some of the money could be put to better use.

"People need a pay rise," he said. "And companies need to invest for the future in skills and training, and to improve productivity."

He was also suspicious about motives of companies that make their shares attractive by paying higher dividends. "Top executives have an incentive to keep shares up, because they will benefit from healthy bonuses," he said."

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You misunderstood my point

 

Poor or nonexistent wage growth has fuelled discontent generally and was one of the main causes (possibly subliminally) for voting for Brexit.

You're right insofar as I think we both agree that large companies are responsible for the decline in real wages for the poor/average.

 

We disagree when it comes to thinking that the EU's open border policy has made it even easier for cheap labour to be employed, and keep wages for the vast majority in the UK v low.

 

Similarly, I think we also agree that the EU has at least had the sense to pretend to care about 'workers' via some of their employment legislation - whereas UK MPs barely even pretend to care.   Until (of course) their 'seats' are on the line.....

 

As we're seeing now, as MPs pretend they accept the referendum result - whilst doing everything possible to derail the result.  IMO of course.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

In those days the way to Amsterdam was by train and ferry. Now the train is the luxury!

You both need to get a new travel agent.

[aright]

17 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

You're right insofar as I think we both agree that large companies are responsible for the decline in real wages for the poor/average.

 

I think this statement needs a little more balance.

Yes, wages have declined , but the government have reduced the cost of living by raising the tax free personal allowance to £10000 taking 2.7 million people out of tax and other measures such as freezing fuel duty.

IMO negative wage growth in the UK  has resulted in a preservation of employment. A primary focus of any government should be keeping its people employed 

In support:--

UK wages down 10% employment up 1%

USA wages up 6.4% employment down 3.4%

France ,,       ,,   10.5%       ,,                 ,,       1.8%

Spain   ,,       ,,     2.8%        ,,                 ,,       8.5%

Netherlands       3.4%       ,,                 ,,        1.7%

 

[Grouse]

34 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

You're right insofar as I think we both agree that large companies are responsible for the decline in real wages for the poor/average.

 

We disagree when it comes to thinking that the EU's open border policy has made it even easier for cheap labour to be employed, and keep wages for the vast majority in the UK v low.

 

Similarly, I think we also agree that the EU has at least had the sense to pretend to care about 'workers' via some of their employment legislation - whereas UK MPs barely even pretend to care.   Until (of course) their 'seats' are on the line.....

 

As we're seeing now, as MPs pretend they accept the referendum result - whilst doing everything possible to derail the result.  IMO of course.

Again, I don't see it quite like that.

 

If everyone felt times were good and not so cash strapped, no body would care about some Europeans moving in next door 

 

As far as MPs are concerned the vast majority KNOW it's a ridiculous idea but they feel obliged (wrongly IMHO) to go along with the majority of their constituents instead of doing what THEY THEMSELVES believe to be the best thing.

[dick dasterdly]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Again, I don't see it quite like that.

 

If everyone felt times were good and not so cash strapped, no body would care about some Europeans moving in next door 

 

As far as MPs are concerned the vast majority KNOW it's a ridiculous idea but they feel obliged (wrongly IMHO) to go along with the majority of their constituents instead of doing what THEY THEMSELVES believe to be the best thing.

My mistake in thinking that we agreed on a couple of 'points'.

[i claudius]

Actually, it's only online!
 
Do you have a computer?

It was a joke.you have heard of them[emoji4]

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[aright]

51 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

As far as MPs are concerned the vast majority KNOW it's a ridiculous idea but they feel obliged (wrongly IMHO) to go along with the majority of their constituents instead of doing what THEY THEMSELVES believe to be the best thing.

One of the strangest paragraphs you have ever written.

Let me set you straight.

All MP's are smart, cunning, deceptive and more than likely psychotic in one way or another. Most are elected on the basis of their promises not their intelligence.

I, for one, am pleased I don't have your intellectual subservience.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, i claudius said:

It was a joke.you have heard of them

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

No

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, aright said:

One of the strangest paragraphs you have ever written.

Let me set you straight.

All MP's are smart, cunning, deceptive and more than likely psychotic in one way or another. Most are elected on the basis of their promises not their intelligence.

I, for one, am pleased I don't have your intellectual subservience.

You just have your own personalised version.

[Khun Han]

Plausible explanation for Germany's (and by logical extension the EU's) softening stance in negotiations:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/merkel’s-costly-coalition-offers-may-a-route-to-brexit/ar-AAtRFx0?li=AA9SkIr&ocid=spartandhp

[Srikcir]

On 10/22/2017 at 8:03 PM, melvinmelvin said:

 

this OECD report mentioned above

 

does it originate from internal think tank amongst OECD emplyoees or is it authorised

for publication by one of the upper level committees in one of the OECD "branches"?

anybody knows?

 

 

 

 

OECD itself is a "think tank." Its "branches" are its membership. See below organization, especially the statement "decisions taken by consensus." http://www.oecd.org/about/whodoeswhat/

I don't see evidence that the subject report comes from a specific "branch."

 

[melvinmelvin]

33 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

OECD itself is a "think tank." Its "branches" are its membership. See below organization, especially the statement "decisions taken by consensus." http://www.oecd.org/about/whodoeswhat/

I don't see evidence that the subject report comes from a specific "branch."

 

 

should have used the term committees rather than branch, in effect pretty much the same thing

 

as far as I can see, the report which is the basis for the fuss originates from one of the comms.

 

and in some areas the doings of the secretariat is stringently controlled

by the relevant committee,

no room for free wheeling think tanking

but of course varies from subject matter to subject matter

 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by melvinmelvin