May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[nauseus]

55 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-debt-uk-deficit-not-fall-below-2008-levels-2060-financial-crash-economy-warning-a8071696.html

 

More cheerful news

 

The Brexiters have disappeared; huddling for warmth presumably ?

2060. Crystal ball sponsored by Project Fear.

Edited November 23, 2017 by nauseus
by

[nauseus]

42 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-summit-theresa-may-tory-chaos-eu-ireland-leaked-dossier-rte-diplomats-david-davis-a8071756.html

 

But we can at least rely upon the professionalism of the Cons. ?

No doc  no story. 

[Grouse]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42097238

 

No wonder so many are dissatisfied, unhappy

 

Brexit isn't the cure, it will make things much worse ?

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/david-davis-brexit-talks-private-planes-raf-un-security-council-blackadder-parody-a8067461.html

 

tee hee!

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42097238

 

No wonder so many are dissatisfied, unhappy

 

Brexit isn't the cure, it will make things much worse ?

To link Brexit  with making things worse is fear mongering. It's a non sequitur.

Income and wealth inequality have always been with us globally.   

Can you recommend a just, humane model of development based on equitable distribution of world resources to eliminate the problem.  Perhaps we could start by a large reduction in your salary an/or a large increase in your taxes.

[Jip99]

28 minutes ago, aright said:

To link Brexit  with making things worse is fear mongering. It's a non sequitur.

Income and wealth inequality have always been with us globally.

Can you recommend a just, humane model of development based on equitable distribution of world resources to eliminate the problem.

Perhaps we could start by a large reduction in your salary an/or a large increase in your taxes.

 

 

As said, with socialism you eventually run out of other people’s money.

[melvinmelvin]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-summit-theresa-may-tory-chaos-eu-ireland-leaked-dossier-rte-diplomats-david-davis-a8071756.html

 

But we can at least rely upon the professionalism of the Cons. ?

 

as if that was newsworthy, its been that way for quite a while now, and UK looks a bit odd to put it mildly

 

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, aright said:

To link Brexit  with making things worse is fear mongering. It's a non sequitur.

Income and wealth inequality have always been with us globally.   

Can you recommend a just, humane model of development based on equitable distribution of world resources to eliminate the problem.  Perhaps we could start by a large reduction in your salary an/or a large increase in your taxes.

 

Project fear's campaign has gone from sinister to just plain ridiculous. We were supposed to have a recession, the likes of which the country had not seen since the 1930s. Now it's growth, but  not as good as anticipated (err.....what happened to recession?), and 'this is horrendous because standards of living for the masses won't rise'. What a load of codswallop! There is one reason, and one reason only, why standards of living are remaining static for the masses: FREE MOVEMENT. And this is entirely down to our membership of the EU. Whilst there is now a big element of stable door and horse bolted, leaving the EU can only help to reverse this assault on the living standards of ordinary working people in the UK.

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts reported and removed.  

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, aright said:

To link Brexit  with making things worse is fear mongering. It's a non sequitur.

Income and wealth inequality have always been with us globally.   

Can you recommend a just, humane model of development based on equitable distribution of world resources to eliminate the problem.  Perhaps we could start by a large reduction in your salary an/or a large increase in your taxes.

I have no problem with higher taxes in exchange for improved services and a more equitable society. Seriously, I much prefer the type of high tax, high benefit, socially democratic societies of Northern Europe to uncivilised, uncontrolled capitalism of the USA. As I say, leaving the EU is going to be horribly damaging. I see today apprenticeships down by 80% and wages will not return to 2007 levels for at least another 10 years. People are understandably dissatisfied; Brexit won't improve their lot. Things will get worse as sure as night follows day - it is indeed a sequitur ( Latin - Sequor - to follow)

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Project fear's campaign has gone from sinister to just plain ridiculous. We were supposed to have a recession, the likes of which the country had not seen since the 1930s. Now it's growth, but  not as good as anticipated (err.....what happened to recession?), and 'this is horrendous because standards of living for the masses won't rise'. What a load of codswallop! There is one reason, and one reason only, why standards of living are remaining static for the masses: FREE MOVEMENT. And this is entirely down to our membership of the EU. Whilst there is now a big element of stable door and horse bolted, leaving the EU can only help to reverse this assault on the living standards of ordinary working people in the UK.

So you are happy with 1% growth for the foreseeable future with real wages stagnant or falling for another 10 years? Your hatred for all things European is blinding you to the clear failings of our governments to deliver an equitable society. It's not the EU's fault; it's our own.

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42092171

 

Is ANYONE in charge?

 

Real apprenticeships are key; not shelf stacking but HNCs in numerical control machines, laser optics and RF engineering!

Exactly, the term 'apprentice' has been abused, nothing more than a revamped YTS to cover up the lack of real apprenticeships.

When my son left school he was offered a 2 year apprenticeship in office skills, I was horrified, apprentice office dogsbody, just didn't sit right.

On saying that he took it and during his spell in the accounts dept he impressed the management and was offered a full time job. They then funded a 4 year a 4 year accounting technician course and he is now accounts manager. 

In his case the scheme did work but lets have some respect for terminology and real apprentices, after all they were the backbone of UK industry.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I have no problem with higher taxes in exchange for improved services and a more equitable society. Seriously, I much prefer the type of high tax, high benefit, socially democratic societies of Northern Europe to uncivilised, uncontrolled capitalism of the USA. As I say, leaving the EU is going to be horribly damaging. I see today apprenticeships down by 80% and wages will not return to 2007 levels for at least another 10 years. People are understandably dissatisfied; Brexit won't improve their lot. Things will get worse as sure as night follows day - it is indeed a sequitur ( Latin - Sequor - to follow)

Are you blaming the lack of apprenticeships on brexit too, I seem to recall we had plenty before we joined the EU/common market?

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Are you blaming the lack of apprenticeships on brexit too, I seem to recall we had plenty before we joined the EU/common market?

No, not at all. Quite the reverse.

 

My point is the current mass dissatisfaction and unhappiness will not be cured by leaving the EU, it will be exacerbated.

 

The causes of our very real societal and economic problems are found in our own governments

 

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I have no problem with higher taxes in exchange for improved services and a more equitable society.

I do, why should I pay more for services that are inaccessible, particularly on a frozen pension.

The government can find billions to fund brexit but not a fair state pension.

[bert bloggs]

32 minutes ago, Grouse said:

No, not at all. Quite the reverse.

 

My point is the current mass dissatisfaction and unhappiness will not be cured by leaving the EU, it will be exacerbated.

 

The causes of our very real societal and economic problems are found in our own governments

 

Dont you ever get sick of going on and on and on and on , we are leaving the E.U get over it .

[rockingrobin]

Looks like the Brexit strategy was decided by 2 people

 

https://behindthepaywallblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/23/brexit-strategy-was-decided-by-may-and-one-adviser/

[Grouse]

55 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I do, why should I pay more for services that are inaccessible, particularly on a frozen pension.

The government can find billions to fund brexit but not a fair state pension.

Our pensions are crap. That is one of my complaints. Although improved somewhat ( to keep pensioners voting Tory) we lag far behind other EU countries.

[Grouse]

46 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Dont you ever get sick of going on and on and on and on , we are leaving the E.U get over it .

No. I will do my utmost to change this disastrous decision.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

No. I will do my utmost to change this disastrous decision.

Never give up grouse, it'll mean we were right all along.

[Grouse]

https://www.compareyourcountry.org/pensions?cr=oecd&lg=en&page=0&visited=1

 

This is interesting.....

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

Dont you ever get sick of going on and on and on and on , we are leaving the E.U get over it .

Mode of exit not decided yet. It is this which is in play and forum Brexiteers cannot apparently deal with that at all apart from a broken record of wanting to crash out.

[talahtnut]

18 hours ago, Grouse said:

No, not at all. Quite the reverse.

 

My point is the current mass dissatisfaction and unhappiness will not be cured by leaving the EU, it will be exacerbated.

 

The causes of our very real societal and economic problems are found in our own governments

 

Bingo Grouse.    In or out, slavery will get worse for Brits.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Never give up grouse, it'll mean we were right all along.

I suppose it depends what you mean by "right". Brexit is certainly the wrong decision, but the fools outnumber the wise so Brexit may very well prevail to everyone's harm.

[Grouse]

44 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Bingo Grouse.    In or out, slavery will get worse for Brits.

Look at my earlier post. Our European friends are MUCH better off than us (and happier; even allowing for the Muslim hoards)

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I suppose it depends what you mean by "right". Brexit is certainly the wrong decision, but the fools outnumber the wise so Brexit may very well prevail to everyone's harm.

You are just like the rooky recruit marching in his passing out parade and shouting to his mother 'look mum, I'm the only one in step'

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

Look at my earlier post. Our European friends are MUCH better off than us (and happier; even allowing for the Muslim hoards)

If you want happiness, forget uk and eu. nip off to Iceland.

With an honest decent government UK could be the same.

But, not going to happen is it..This g

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, vogie said:

You are just like the rooky recruit marching in his passing out parade and shouting to his mother 'look mum, I'm the only one in step'

If you're SO sure, why not agree to a follow up referendum once the proposed deal is known?

 

In truth, you're not sure ?

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

If you're SO sure, why not agree to a follow up referendum once the proposed deal is known?

 

In truth, you're not sure ?

Simple answer, I don't want one. If the referendum result had gone the other way I would bet pound to a pinch of sugar you wouldn't be shouting 'I want another referendum.'

 

 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

Looks like the Brexit strategy was decided by 2 people

 

https://behindthepaywallblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/23/brexit-strategy-was-decided-by-may-and-one-adviser/

Can't be right, brexiteers tell us 17 million decided the strategy. After all if OUT is OUT where does strategy come into it.