New MoE Policy

stubuzz · November 2, 2016

We were informed today that a new policy from the MoE states that Thai and foreign contract workers are only eligible for 11month contracts. (no pay in April) If anybody has access to this document, please post a copy because i think it is BS.

Loaded · November 2, 2016

yes, bs

DavisH · November 2, 2016

Got to be BS...how can you get a 1 year extension of stay on an 11 month contract?.....unless they give a 12 month contract and don't pay the last month. That's not unheard of.

lostinisaan · November 2, 2016

I have to pay rent for 12 months a year and eat 12 months a year.

Would that be real, I'm out. No way that I'd sign an 11 months contract.

But I'm sure that's on;ly hearsay or a story from a guy who works for an agency.

Unless somebody can proof it with a serious link, i call it bs. Sorry, just my opinion.

OP, who informed you? Guys from your school?

Edited November 2, 2016 by lostinisaan

tonray · November 2, 2016

9 hours ago, DavisH said:

Got to be BS...how can you get a 1 year extension of stay on an 11 month contract?.....unless they give a 12 month contract and don't pay the last month. That's not unheard of.

You can get 1 year extension of stay even with an agency 9 or 10 month contract. All it takes is for the school to authorize a work permit for 1 year and they all do that anyway, no matter how long your contract is. The contract is not a required doc for the Ministry of Labor or Immigration.

puchooay · November 3, 2016

2 hours ago, tonray said:

You can get 1 year extension of stay even with an agency 9 or 10 month contract. All it takes is for the school to authorize a work permit for 1 year and they all do that anyway, no matter how long your contract is. The contract is not a required doc for the Ministry of Labor or Immigration.

A contract is required by both immigration and Labour.

Usually a 1 year contract will be offered for these purposes by there will be a section that stipulates how many months will be paid.

I would imagine that teachers should have enough intelligence to budget for eating and paying rent for 12 months even if they are only paid for 10 or 11 months.

tonray · November 3, 2016

12 minutes ago, puchooay said:

A contract is required by both immigration and Labour.

Usually a 1 year contract will be offered for these purposes by there will be a section that stipulates how many months will be paid.

I would imagine that teachers should have enough intelligence to budget for eating and paying rent for 12 months even if they are only paid for 10 or 11 months.

A default 'form letter' contract is given but not the contract that the teacher has signed...which is what I meant. So a teacher can be on a 9 or 10 month contract and still have a 1 year extension, this is very common with all agency/high school hires. I myself have signed 10 month contracts with start and end dates of employment clearly laid out but still recieved 1 year extensions. There is no section stipulating only paid for 10 months...it is only a 10 month deal.

Edited November 3, 2016 by tonray

stubuzz · November 3, 2016

14 hours ago, lostinisaan said:

I have to pay rent for 12 months a year and eat 12 months a year.

Would that be real, I'm out. No way that I'd sign an 11 months contract.

But I'm sure that's on;ly hearsay or a story from a guy who works for an agency.

Unless somebody can proof it with a serious link, i call it bs. Sorry, just my opinion.

OP, who informed you? Guys from your school?

News of this new policy came from the director to the head of department to us. 12 months contract; 11 months pay for Thai and foreign contract workers.

lostinisaan · November 3, 2016

20 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

News of this new policy came from the director to the head of department to us. 12 months contract; 11 months pay for Thai and foreign contract workers.

Then it's a school intern decision to save money and not coming from the MoE.

They just seem to copy the policy of most agencies. But when all say no they'll keep all as it was.

It only shows what a digg the director is.

P.S. It's easy to do the math. How many students are at your school and how much do the parents pay for having a foreign teacher?

It's usually enough money to pay a 12 months salary.

I wouldn't sign such a contract. Full stop.

Edited November 3, 2016 by lostinisaan

aidenai · November 3, 2016

News of this new policy came from the director to the head of department to us. 12 months contract; 11 months pay for Thai and foreign contract workers.

In your OP you were talking about an eleven-months contract!

BruceMangosteen · November 3, 2016

6 hours ago, lostinisaan said:

P.S. It's easy to do the math. How many students are at your school and how much do the parents pay for having a foreign teacher?

It's usually enough money to pay a 12 months salary.

It doesn't add up like that. There is funding from Bangkok and in fact, most of the funding is from Bangkok. The fees the parents pay is trivial in the big picture of equipment, hydro, books, salaries, depreciation, camps, etc.. Focus on the money from Bangkok and be aware, some fudging goes on as far as hours taught and number of students. Many of the programs are also marketed as having "Native English Speaking" qualified teachers when as we all know by now is an out and out lie.

lostinisaan · November 3, 2016

33 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

It doesn't add up like that. There is funding from Bangkok and in fact, most of the funding is from Bangkok. The fees the parents pay is trivial in the big picture of equipment, hydro, books, salaries, depreciation, camps, etc.. Focus on the money from Bangkok and be aware, some fudging goes on as far as hours taught and number of students. Many of the programs are also marketed as having "Native English Speaking" qualified teachers when as we all know by now is an out and out lie.

You're right, but please I did the math at my former school. The parents paid 600 baht per child for one year, I had about 9 classes of grade six and 9 classes grade five.

Usually, 45 kids in a class make it to 486,000 baht. My salary at this time was 30 K. Still enough money to pay for visa and work permit, don't you think?

On the other hand, did they let me sign a document where I later found out that I was basically employed at two schools at the same time? But that was the 10 K per teacher and month time.

So they had at least 120 k more and we're already over 600 K/year.

I always hear things like schools would receive 25, or 35 K/month for each foreign teacher, but I've never seen proof if that's true. It's always only some barstool talk, not more.

Have you got a link to proof it?

lostinisaan · November 3, 2016

55 minutes ago, aidenai said:

In your OP you were talking about an eleven-months contract!

So true and amazing how facts can change here:

We were informed today that a new policy from the MoE states that Thai and foreign contract workers are only eligible for 11month contracts.

chowny77 · November 3, 2016

I know of teachers with a contract that states that they are only paid 10 1/2 months but that they are employed for 12 months. They basically do not pay for the school holidays but do have the paper work for a 12 month contract. It sucks and to be honest I do not see it getting any better in the future, if anything it will be worse. Salaries have stayed stagnate since 2005 and the directors all seem to be driving better cars...............I think I know where the extra money is going.

BruceMangosteen · November 3, 2016

9 hours ago, lostinisaan said:

You're right, but please I did the math at my former school. The parents paid 600 baht per child for one year, I had about 9 classes of grade six and 9 classes grade five.

Usually, 45 kids in a class make it to 486,000 baht. My salary at this time was 30 K. Still enough money to pay for visa and work permit, don't you think?

On the other hand, did they let me sign a document where I later found out that I was basically employed at two schools at the same time? But that was the 10 K per teacher and month time.

So they had at least 120 k more and we're already over 600 K/year.

I always hear things like schools would receive 25, or 35 K/month for each foreign teacher, but I've never seen proof if that's true. It's always only some barstool talk, not more.

Have you got a link to proof it?

Thanks for your cordial reply. It's truly remarkable and enjoyable to have an intelligent discussion vs. being ridiculed by minions who haven't got a clue, just like to stir up trouble and make themselves look like big shots when the whole time they are nothing but pests...

The money from Bangkok isn't bar stool talk or locker room talk. It's real. The power and influence of the Director can have a bearing on it all. My understanding of it, and it's not just from some depressed back packer looking for airfare, is.....Bangkok pays based on hours in the classroom so see my comment about fudging same. The "audit" is in the form of expense reports submitted to Bangkok. There have been openly stated lies that Filipino's are paid less due to a "rule" from Bangkok but this again, contradicts how the program is marketed to the public. We then have extraordinary expenses such as new computers. How these are funded again remains via a request, not a reduction/invasion in a budget created by fees or the hourly figure above. Books as you know are inexpensive. It's equipment and the hydro combined with agencies and/or salaries of the foreigner. When I read on here about salaries exceeding 50 K a month in Government schools I just laugh. It might be possible budget wise but the loss of face would rule the day. You simply won't find it in Government schools, that wage I mean for foreigners. The programs you refer to, not MEP or EP, are another beast and my understanding is they are funded separately from MEP/EP. Those are annual requests and can end on a whim. The foreigner isn't really wanted or liked but the Filipino angle has become affordable. I'm rambling. Have a nice day kind person and God Bless You..O O.

BruceMangosteen · November 3, 2016

8 hours ago, chowny77 said:

I know of teachers with a contract that states that they are only paid 10 1/2 months but that they are employed for 12 months. They basically do not pay for the school holidays but do have the paper work for a 12 month contract. It sucks and to be honest I do not see it getting any better in the future, if anything it will be worse. Salaries have stayed stagnate since 2005 and the directors all seem to be driving better cars...............I think I know where the extra money is going.

While I agree...It is worth mentioning that sometimes, in fact most(all) that I've seen at one particular school, the admin continues to pay the teachers who are hired directly by the school regardless of such terms spelled out. I don't know where the breakdown occurs, but it isn't caught by any "audit". These are when the teacher is kept. Her new contract may for instance start in May as the other one ends the end of April, but April is paid by some miracle. It isn't kindness, it's oversight and lack of professionalism and attention to detail. One must assume there is no one who actually cares. This wouldn't happen with an agency because that requires an invoice be created monthly which would raise the red flag. It's all wicked and quality of education becomes second fiddle. God Bless You and O O.

lostinisaan · November 4, 2016

10 hours ago, chowny77 said:

I know of teachers with a contract that states that they are only paid 10 1/2 months but that they are employed for 12 months. They basically do not pay for the school holidays but do have the paper work for a 12 month contract. It sucks and to be honest I do not see it getting any better in the future, if anything it will be worse. Salaries have stayed stagnate since 2005 and the directors all seem to be driving better cars...............I think I know where the extra money is going.

I also started in 2005 and I agree that salaries haven't changed since then. But life in 2005 was way cheaper, one liter of Diesel 11 baht, pork 1 kg 24 baht , beer and cigarettes dirt cheap and so on.

25 K back in 2005 could buy you more than 35 K right now, tendency decreasing.

lostinisaan · November 4, 2016

2 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

While I agree...It is worth mentioning that sometimes, in fact most(all) that I've seen at one particular school, the admin continues to pay the teachers who are hired directly by the school regardless of such terms spelled out. I don't know where the breakdown occurs, but it isn't caught by any "audit". These are when the teacher is kept. Her new contract may for instance start in May as the other one ends the end of April, but April is paid by some miracle. It isn't kindness, it's oversight and lack of professionalism and attention to detail. One must assume there is no one who actually cares. This wouldn't happen with an agency because that requires an invoice be created monthly which would raise the red flag. It's all wicked and quality of education becomes second fiddle. God Bless You and O O.

One from the islands: " More power to you." Lol.

Loaded · November 4, 2016

3 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

Thanks for your cordial reply. It's truly remarkable and enjoyable to have an intelligent discussion vs. being ridiculed by minions who haven't got a clue, just like to stir up trouble and make themselves look like big shots when the whole time they are nothing but pests...

The money from Bangkok isn't bar stool talk or locker room talk. It's real. The power and influence of the Director can have a bearing on it all. My understanding of it, and it's not just from some depressed back packer looking for airfare, is.....Bangkok pays based on hours in the classroom so see my comment about fudging same. The "audit" is in the form of expense reports submitted to Bangkok. There have been openly stated lies that Filipino's are paid less due to a "rule" from Bangkok but this again, contradicts how the program is marketed to the public. We then have extraordinary expenses such as new computers. How these are funded again remains via a request, not a reduction/invasion in a budget created by fees or the hourly figure above. Books as you know are inexpensive. It's equipment and the hydro combined with agencies and/or salaries of the foreigner. When I read on here about salaries exceeding 50 K a month in Government schools I just laugh. It might be possible budget wise but the loss of face would rule the day. You simply won't find it in Government schools, that wage I mean for foreigners. The programs you refer to, not MEP or EP, are another beast and my understanding is they are funded separately from MEP/EP. Those are annual requests and can end on a whim. The foreigner isn't really wanted or liked but the Filipino angle has become affordable. I'm rambling. Have a nice day kind person and God Bless You..O O.

I guess you are referring to the people who ask you to support your often wild claims (normally prefixed with: "... my understanding is...") with evidence.

You are having "an intelligent conversation" with a member of this forum who most people find confusing at best.

lostinisaan · November 4, 2016

1 hour ago, Loaded said:

I guess you are referring to the people who ask you to support your often wild claims (normally prefixed with: "... my understanding is...") with evidence.

You are having "an intelligent conversation" with a member of this forum who most people find confusing at best.

Thanks, Loaded for your highly intelligent post that explains the OP's question in a great way.

Did your wife leave you?

BruceMangosteen · November 4, 2016

8 hours ago, Loaded said:

I guess you are referring to the people who ask you to support your often wild claims (normally prefixed with: "... my understanding is...") with evidence.

You are having "an intelligent conversation" with a member of this forum who most people find confusing at best.

Why reach down in the sewer with your remarks, tainting them with your I assume disdain for others etc.. It's just a message board and forum. If I make a "wild claim" simply say you don't agree, cite the "claim" and your basis for disagreement. I don't find Lost in Asia confusing at all. He/she's a straight shooter who tells it like it is. Saying "my understanding is" is obviously a prefix to a remark which is a compilation of information gathered and digested and experienced. Kindly share yours if in as I say, conflict. OO and God Bless You, you might need his kindness.

Loaded · November 4, 2016

1 hour ago, BruceMangosteen said:

Why reach down in the sewer with your remarks, tainting them with your I assume disdain for others etc.. It's just a message board and forum. If I make a "wild claim" simply say you don't agree, cite the "claim" and your basis for disagreement. I don't find Lost in Asia confusing at all. He/she's a straight shooter who tells it like it is. Saying "my understanding is" is obviously a prefix to a remark which is a compilation of information gathered and digested and experienced. Kindly share yours if in as I say, conflict. OO and God Bless You, you might need his kindness.

It's Lost in Isaan.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Loaded

Scott · November 4, 2016

....and meanwhile back on the topic, which is about the new MOE policy or lack thereof.

Please discontinue with inflammatory personal remarks. It is really counterproductive.

Scott · November 5, 2016

A comment on moderation has been removed. Here is the rule:

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy. You will not block contact with moderators or administrators. Doing so will result in suspension.

I might add that general warnings are not posted unless there are numerous people who are flaunting the rules.

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