Brexit hits speed bump as court rules lawmakers must get say

[7by7]

Nigel Farage and Gina Miller clash over Brexit

 

That may not play outside the UK.

[sandyf]

On todays BBC News at 11 am, Teresa May stood at the bottom of the aircraft steps and said she would ensure the best deal for Britain "operating within the single market".

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

The devolved administrations, by which I assume you mean the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Ireland and Welsh Assemblies,  have no legal or constitutional power or say over the UK's foreign policy. Even so, Mrs May has done them the courtesy of consulting them and has said she will continue to so do. How is that showing a lack of respect?

 

The rhetoric on immigration during the campaign from some on the Brexit side was outrageous, and much of it false.

 

So you are saying the government did not tell the people of Scotland that if they voted no to independence they would be party to reforms in Europe. 

The rise in hate crime is anything but false.

[Xircal]

40 minutes ago, sandyf said:

On todays BBC News at 11 am, Teresa May stood at the bottom of the aircraft steps and said she would ensure the best deal for Britain "operating within the single market".

 

So she's decided to accept free movement of people after all has she?

[sandyf]

18 minutes ago, Xircal said:

 

So she's decided to accept free movement of people after all has she?

Who knows, may have been delusional rhetoric.

[RuamRudy]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

How would you break it up? As I said, the constituency where I live voted to remain. Should all those who did likewise leave the UK?

 

 

I am no constitutional expert, but I assume it will happen through a formal dissolution of the Act of the Union.

 

Is your constituency a signatory member of a greater union? Does it operate with its own legal system and its own institutions? Is it a recognised country in its own right?

[Mosha]

Labour will not hold Brexit up, the people have spoken.

http://bbc.in/2fu1uig

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[RuamRudy]

16 minutes ago, Mosha said:

Labour will not hold Brexit up, the people have spoken.

 

 

37% of the UK electorate has said they want to leave the EU; 63% did not actively support Brexit. 

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

37% of the UK electorate has said they want to leave the EU; 63% did not actively support Brexit. 

please stop twisting the facts -- The last general election got a lower turnout but the result produced no such hyperbole.  The referendum had a turnout of 72% - huge by many standards - and the vote in favour of Brexit was a clear majority of votes cast.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-brexit-referendum/

 

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, jpinx said:

please stop twisting the facts -- The last general election got a lower turnout but the result produced no such hyperbole.  The referendum had a turnout of 72% - huge by many standards - and the vote in favour of Brexit was a clear majority of votes cast.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-brexit-referendum/

 

 

There are no facts being twisted by me - in fact, it is you who is doing the twisting. You stated that "the people have spoken', as if to suggest that there was overwhelming support across the country, but the reality is that fewer than 4 in 10 voters supported Brexit.

 

Brexit does not represent this landslide of popular support that it is so laughably claimed to be.

[Mosha]

The majority of voters, voted out. The questions on the ballot paper were very clear. The people were constantly told the decision would be respected.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

There are no facts being twisted by me - in fact, it is you who is doing the twisting. You stated that "the people have spoken', as if to suggest that there was overwhelming support across the country, but the reality is that fewer than 4 in 10 voters supported Brexit.

 

Brexit does not represent this landslide of popular support that it is so laughably claimed to be.

In round numbers -

52% of 72% voted for Brexit = 37%

48% of 72% voted to remain = 35%

To include non-voters in the result would be a travisty of a democratic vote.

 

Show the reference to a landslide victory please :)

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, jpinx said:

In round numbers -

52% of 72% voted for Brexit = 37%

48% of 72% voted to remain = 35%

To include non-voters in the result would be a travisty of a democratic vote.

 

I do not disagree about the need to respect the democratic vote, but I repeat, a significant majority of the country did not actively support Brexit - it does not have the popular mandate claimed.   

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I do not disagree about the need to respect the democratic vote, but I repeat, a significant majority of the country did not actively support Brexit - it does not have the popular mandate claimed.   

Claimed by whom?  Please show where anyone has said it was a "popular mandate" or a "landslide"?  it was a narrow victory for Brexit, but a victory nevertheless and the government stated prior to the result that it would enact the result.  The only debate now is about timing and terms.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Claimed by whom?  Please show where anyone has said it was a "popular mandate" or a "landslide"? 

 

How about: 

50 minutes ago, Mosha said:

the people have spoken.

 

which was the comment I was referring to when you joined. 

[Grouse]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Nigel Farage and Gina Miller clash over Brexit

 

That may not play outside the UK.

 

Wow, she's an impressive woman! Got the better of Farage just by being well informed and eloquent 

[jpinx]

20 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

How about: 

 

which was the comment I was referring to when you joined. 

 

That hardly constitutes a claim to a Landslide --  merely another way of saying that there was a vote with a clear result.

 

[cumgranosalum]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Firstly, I have no idea why you seem to be labelling me a "Brexiteer!" Even if you have not read any of my previous posts on the subject, both before and after the referendum, I do clearly state in the post you have quoted that I voted to remain!

 

I also state that I accept the democratic decision of the UK electorate; whereas you, sir, are coming across as a Remoaner who does not and is desperately searching for any means to thwart it!

 

What you seem to fail to understand is that this ruling, and that of the Supreme Court should they agree, does not and will not say that the referendum result should be ignored; to cut to the bare bones it merely states that it should be confirmed by a vote in Parliament before Article 50 is triggered.

 

Secondly, it is true that, except in certain circumstances described by others previously, UK referenda are not constitutionally binding on the government nor parliament. But the government has a clear mandate from the people of the UK; they should follow up on that mandate; as Mrs May and her government fully intend to do.

 

 On the Andrew Marr show this morning Jeremy Hunt said that Parliament makes law; the government negotiates treaties. I agree with that, with the proviso that once the government has negotiated a deal it should then be up to Parliament to approve that deal or send the government back to the negotiating table.

 

 

The devolved administrations, by which I assume you mean the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Ireland and Welsh Assemblies,  have no legal or constitutional power or say over the UK's foreign policy. Even so, Mrs May has done them the courtesy of consulting them and has said she will continue to so do. How is that showing a lack of respect?

 

The rhetoric on immigration during the campaign from some on the Brexit side was outrageous, and much of it false.

 

Some of the comments directed at the judges are also outrageous; but here in the UK we have a free press and freedom of speech. You don't seem to care for that when people say things with which you disagree.

 

 

How would you break it up? As I said, the constituency where I live voted to remain. Should all those who did likewise leave the UK?

 

Looking across the pond; whoever wins next Tuesday, not all states will have voted for them Should those who voted for the loser demand to form a separate country with their preferred candidate as president?

I very much doubt I referred to you directly as a Brexiteer - but certainly your thinking seems similar - ergo my conclusions. you also seem to be attributing my posts with a lot of meaning and implication that simply isn't there.

 

However, it is worth bearing in mind that stupidity is not the monopoly of Brexiteers - they just have a 2% majority.

 

to reiterate my point

Nigel Farage Forced To Admit EU Referendum Not Legally Binding Under Current Law

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Wow, she's an impressive woman! Got the better of Farage just by being well informed and eloquent 

I watched it also and thought Farage destroyed her with 'what part of leave did you not understand'. Eloquent is not the term I would use. Self serving arrogance, yes. Either way the more I debate on this outcome, the more I realize that people can speculate and throw so called facts at each other. The truth is nobody knows what will happen in the next few months.

 

We can however say that, what a lot of what was said straight after the referendum has not happened, thankfully. Or we would be living in an apocalyptic financial meltdown with mass unemployment and no food on the shop shelves. 

[rockingrobin]

29 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I watched it also and thought Farage destroyed her with 'what part of leave did you not understand'. Eloquent is not the term I would use. Self serving arrogance, yes. Either way the more I debate on this outcome, the more I realize that people can speculate and throw so called facts at each other. The truth is nobody knows what will happen in the next few months.

 

We can however say that, what a lot of what was said straight after the referendum has not happened, thankfully. Or we would be living in an apocalyptic financial meltdown with mass unemployment and no food on the shop shelves. 

what part of leave did you not understand'

I have not watched the clip

However the above statement is vacuous in the context of Brexit, it doesnt provide any meaning or substance. What is the desired outcome and where is the journey, are we looking to negotiate a deal before triggering art 50 , as per Leave campaign leaflet, to enter FTA with EU, single market, customs union access, 

[dick dasterdly]

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Nigel Farage and Gina Miller clash over Brexit

 

That may not play outside the UK.

She came up with a good point, something along the lines of 'The politicians lied throughout the campaign.' - and I agree with her - its always been their modus operandi.

 

Which is why there is no good reason  to trust the politicians now.

 

A bit off topic admittedly, but politicians are only concerned about their own personal interests, and the populace are never given the information they need to make an informed decision.  Few are enthusiastic enough to look beyond the political/media with which they agree or, come to that, even think for themselves .

 

IMO a HUGE dose of scepticism is required when it comes to both politicians and the media.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I watched it also and thought Farage destroyed her with 'what part of leave did you not understand'. Eloquent is not the term I would use. Self serving arrogance, yes. Either way the more I debate on this outcome, the more I realize that people can speculate and throw so called facts at each other. The truth is nobody knows what will happen in the next few months.

 

We can however say that, what a lot of what was said straight after the referendum has not happened, thankfully. Or we would be living in an apocalyptic financial meltdown with mass unemployment and no food on the shop shelves. 

 

I think we'll just leave it at that.

 

We clearly live in different universes ?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

what part of leave did you not understand'

I have not watched the clip

However the above statement is vacuous in the context of Brexit, it doesnt provide any meaning or substance. What is the desired outcome and where is the journey, are we looking to negotiate a deal before triggering art 50 , as per Leave campaign leaflet, to enter FTA with EU, single market, customs union access, 

 

The clip is worth watching!

[dick dasterdly]

24 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

The clip is worth watching!

Yes, it is.

 

Gina Miller said that 'the politicians lied', and we can all agree about that - on both sides of 'the fence'.

 

And yet we should now trust the same lying politicians to over-ride the referendum and demand that they have the final 'say'?

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Yes, it is.

 

Gina Miller said that 'the politicians lied', and we can all agree about that - on both sides of 'the fence'.

 

And yet we should now trust the same lying politicians to over-ride the referendum and demand that they have the final 'say'?

 

As far as the remain side was concerned, I don't recall specific lies. The so called scare mongering MIGHT have been "over egged" but these were predictions and we don't know all the effects yet. Certainly the collapse in the pound has happened and inflation (probably stagflation) will happen. Now real lies were told by the Brexiteers as I am sure you would agree. I think I have more faith in our MPs in general. Not all, but most.

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

As far as the remain side was concerned, I don't recall specific lies. The so called scare mongering MIGHT have been "over egged" but these were predictions and we don't know all the effects yet. Certainly the collapse in the pound has happened and inflation (probably stagflation) will happen. Now real lies were told by the Brexiteers as I am sure you would agree. I think I have more faith in our MPs in general. Not all, but most.

Osborne's promised 'punishment budget' in the event of a brexit vote springs to mind.

 

Edit - not to mention the media plus politicians predicting an apocalypse in the event of a brexit vote.  It didn't happen, and no-one knows what will happen in the future.  Although we can take cynical guesses .

 

BOTH sides lied and exaggerated.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Osborne's promised 'punishment budget' in the event of a brexit vote springs to mind.

 

Edit - not to mention the media plus politicians predicting an apocalypse in the event of a brexit vote.  It didn't happen, and no-one knows what will happen in the future.  Although we can take cynical guesses .

 

BOTH sides lied and exaggerated.

 

Maybe I'm being a bit pedantic, I think there is a difference between getting a forecast wrong and lying. Everybody thought Brexit would triggered immediately. If it had been, there could well have been an emergency budget. You know the Brexiteer real lies in so many area that I won't list them here

[thaibeachlovers]

Ah, so that's how the fix will be done to circumvent the will of the people.

[rockingrobin]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah, so that's how the fix will be done to circumvent the will of the people.

Personally i dont think the result will be overturned.

But I will ask this question, if you were to enter into a contract that consisted of false promises , would you expect to be able to set it aside

[bokningar]

Just carry on.

 

Boris Johnson has stated in The Guardian what this will be like 

 

He said he believed that Europe was coming to terms with the UK’s departure. “In the words of our great prime minister, they understand that Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a titanic success of it.”  

 

And we all know how well that ended