Similar city as alternative to Chang Mai to avoid air problems?

[canthai55]

 

[jak2002003]

Chiang Mai is lovely place to live.  I have been here 12 years full time.  I am now 40 years old.

 

I live outside the city in a small rural village... lots of traditional wooden houses and lovely temples, rice fields, birds and wildlife. 

 

With the passing years, the air pollution problem has been getting better.  This year I have only noticed 2 or 3 days when it was bad.  This has been the best year so far. When I fist came here there would be weeks of haze and smog, with my eyes stinging and sore throat. 

 

People here are generally very friendly, funny and relaxed about things.. which I like.  I love the Northern food too.  I live mostly like a Thai rural person now... do my shopping at the local markets, I grown vegetables and fruit, have chickens and ducks.  I cycle or use a motorbike rather than dive a car.

 

I don't go out into the city at night drinking and driving anymore.  I like to drink with my friends in the local shops a few nights a week.. where I can walk or cycle home a short distance.

 

I have learnt the language to a reasonable degree... and no I feel really this is my home.  I would not consider moving to another country.

 

Chiang Mai inner city is also improving year by year, with more stylish and modern buildings and venues. The city is very green, lots of big trees and flowers, water fountains in the moat, etc.  Pavements have been improved and now its easy to walk around most of the city.  Many of the rural roads have been widened and resurfaced, and on the ring roads, many new underpasses have been built, so its easier to travel around now.

 

More modern shopping malls have been built, with fantastic cinema and supermarkets. (I have never been in a cinema so nice in the UK). 

 

The only real negative thing is the amount of traffic is increasing.  I notice this mostly on the main roads and in the city, where it can be difficult and dangerous to cross a road!  I hope that this too will get better in time. 

[Sambotte]

Well opinion differ :) I really feel it's going worst personnaly.

More traffic = more pollution, since you can see a lot of diesel emission or other small clouds going out from certain cars, songtaw, tuk-tuk and a few old motorcycle.

In a valley. With very dry air. No wind.

In comparison air is much better in... Bangkok !

 

Concerning the stupid mass burning in all area (Myanmar, Laos, Thailand), well i came to CM because it rained, i thought it was the end of pollution. Was not... It's awfull again since more than a week.

Visibility doesn't seem to reflect the pollution imo, maybe just the pm10, i don't know... Because visibility is not to bad, when pollution is crazy bad :

http://aqicn.org/city/chiang-mai/

181 pm2.5 at 6 am, it's dangerous !

 

By the way i can't find the pm2.5 for Chaing Rai, anybody knows ?

The aqicn could be totally false without it, like it indicate a good air for Chaing Rai ???... because of the absence of pm2.5. That's a shame imo for a "scientific" (?) data website on air pollution.

 

A interesting blog, talking about efficient mask too :

https://www.tielandtothailand.com/chiang-mai-smoky-season/

 

Hope the rain will come those days.

[JimmyJ]

20 minutes ago, Sambotte said:

By the way i can't find the pm2.5 for Chaing Rai, anybody knows ?

The aqicn could be totally false without it, like it indicate a good air for Chaing Rai ???... because of the absence of pm2.5. That's a shame imo for a "scientific" (?) data website on air pollution.

 

A interesting blog, talking about efficient mask too :

https://www.tielandtothailand.com/chiang-mai-smoky-season/

 

Hope the rain will come those days.

 

I use a phone app called "Air Quality".

 

Right now it's showing Chaing Rai at 157.

The 2.5 is all red for the day, and the PM10 is yellow except for 2 orange hours.

[JimmyJ]

Ignore the above post - I just explored more.

 

It's also showing Chiangrai = Gaia Stations 01/02/03 at 167/156/152.

 

But then I see it shows Natural Resources and Environment Office, Chiangrai at 59, and Maesai Health Office, Chiangrai at 80.

 

Something seems wrong with this sort of differential in the same city.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by JimmyJ

[Sambotte]

Yes it's totally wrong data without the pm2.5 imo, shame on those site indicating good or moderate air quality because they do not count the most dangerous pm2.5. If they don't have it, they shoud indicate "unknown air quality index" !

But the data you have say bad air so ? With the pm2.5...

 

Got a little misleaded by that a week ago. Well i thought after, that they was no chance of such a difference between CM and CR. Although rain is the big saver :)

 

Kind of annoyed right now, i wanted to visit CR (and will receive my new passport there in 2 weeks), and had no plan to go back to the south immediately, but it's all about rain (big), or not (enough to clean this mess)... Should be raining today or tomorrow maybe, will see. Otherwise it could be one more month with dangerous air quality in the whole area... In that case i should evacuate even if it mean i have to make a short trip to CR for my passport when it arrive.

 

Have been in CM two time years before, during the whole smooky season, i was annoyed and not feeling very well, but this time, just after 2 weeks, i have now a little lung inflamation ! This pollution is indeed very very bad. And nonsense to burn all the fields like that, it's crazy stupid (no rocket science to feel it's very harmfull, not to mention bad for the climate change). And bad for tourism, hope this could change something when health issue does not :)

 

Well, rain within 2 days or i evacuate :) I don't know where though, south is kind of far from here, just for 2 weeks...

[JaseTheBass]

Somehow... Take USA... Have been many time there. Immigration play too many time with foreigner, just to play "power game". I've experienced it, recently, after Trump so. A young guy just wanted to make problem for zero reason, i have nothing to hide or suspect, i am always polite, etc. After one hour and half checking in detail my belonging, a supervisor told him by phone to let me pass, and he expressed then publicly his frustration ! I have to fill a complain btw in case there is still justice there. Pissed me off, especially to be unable to do anything again that absolute nosense. ? Many travellers have had stupid problem like this recently, it's a shame ! For no reason, and by so immigration US or homeland is not doing their necessary job. It's in USA, and i think many Thai can't even have a visa or ESTA for example. But could be same in France (i just don't know obviously since i'm French :) And well i don't plan to come back anytime soon...
Never had a problem in Thailand. With lots of tourist visa cumulated. Always welcome.
 
Second point, well, USA (sorry guys i like you in fact :)) again, they just don't need you to fill form to spie on you, no ? :)
 
Just talking, it's all relative, and well i'm fine with Thailand, easy country, nice people, very good services. I've been in many places around the world, and well i'm back here and happy to be :)
 
But i agree with you, pollution in Chiang Mai is a big disappointment. Big problem i mean.
The funny ting is i am near Phuket to avoid pollution in CM, and guess what ? :) I've got a cold after the too many planes and a transit for business in USA, and... It's damn raining every day ! Can't believe this :) Weather become crazy, not suppose to rain now so much here... Rain that would be so welcome now in CM :)

The south of Thailand has 2 full on rainy seasons, so yes, it is supposed to be raining there.

Sent from my SM-T815Y using Tapatalk

[Sambotte]

Not suppose to be raining in March april though in Khao Lak :)

And according to a local, last rainy season was dry on the opposite. Climate change...

 

To answer to the topic : where similar to Chiang Mai, well, Chiang Rai looks very good... Smaller but develloped, more relax, less traffic, and less pollution ! Because it's not in a small valley like CM, and less traffic, less diesel...

 

And more air ! Appreciated with the smooky season not yet finished, although it has been raining, dangerous level of pm2.5 re-raise again and again...

Edited May 4, 2017 by Sambotte

[Sandy Freckle]

Dalat in southern highlands..., Vietnam...., nice place, lots of fresh produce grown in that area.  

[JimmyJ]

10 hours ago, Sandy Freckle said:

Dalat in southern highlands..., Vietnam...., nice place, lots of fresh produce grown in that area.  

A number of people have been very positive about Dalat.

It also has a cooler temperature than much of SE Asia.

I plan to take a look.

[Sandy Freckle]

4 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

A number of people have been very positive about Dalat.

It also has a cooler temperature than much of SE Asia.

I plan to take a look.

..., also from memory..., Dalat has less of a smoke issue due to some coastal sea breezes penetrating up there(bearing in mind it's not so far inland and Vietnam is quite a narrow north/south oriented country). Squalls can spin out of the South China Sea and the wind tends to comparatively quickly clear out any smoke laying in the highland valleys.
Also, there's good soil up there(I'm a gardener), they seem to be able to grow many different crops and all year round..., in fact some "cool/temperate climate" fruits and vegetables are grown up there as well. Worth taking a walk around the old Russian designed markets (right beside the centre of town) to check out the produce..., as I already said..., IMO the produce there is pretty damn good !  
I'll shut up now...., 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Sandy Freckle

[Sandy Freckle]

Sometimes I would go into Dalat for a coffee at one of the older cafes..., it was a little bizzare as bunches of locals would be all rugged up, drinking vietnamese drip coffee and dunking croissants and dressed in big jackets with beanies and berets pulled down to ward off the cold..., well the locals thought it was cold..., I thought it was just cool and refreshing. It can be drizzly sometimes but tends to clear quickly. 
Because of the previous French Colonial influence, in Dalat the local Bakers knew how to make reasonable baguettes and pastiserie etc. Dalat is a personal favourite and I intend going back in a month or 2. It's not the cleanest place but compared to LOS it's a lot less polluted..., although others may well disagree on that point. Oh..., and it's a relatively short drive up from HCMC.
Good luck and safe travels. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Sandy Freckle

[JimmyJ]

1 hour ago, Sandy Freckle said:

Sometimes I would go into Dalat for a coffee at one of the older cafes..., it was a little bizzare as bunches of locals would be all rugged up, drinking vietnamese drip coffee and dunking croissants and dressed in big jackets with beanies and berets pulled down to ward off the cold..., well the locals thought it was cold..., I thought it was just cool and refreshing. It can be drizzly sometimes but tends to clear quickly. 
Because of the previous French Colonial influence, in Dalat the local Bakers knew how to make reasonable baguettes and pastiserie etc. Dalat is a personal favourite and I intend going back in a month or 2. It's not the cleanest place but compared to LOS it's a lot less polluted..., although others may well disagree on that point. Oh..., and it's a relatively short drive up from HCMC.
Good luck and safe travels. 

"... it's a relatively short drive up from HCMC."

 

I was planning to ask about this in a new thread when I get to LOS, but since you've mentioned this - is that the best way to get there from LOS - fly to HCMC and rent a car?

 

The thing that I think I'd find most difficult outside of LOS is that I'm a vegetarian and mostly vegan - I've learned a bit of Thai, but none of any other Asian language.

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by JimmyJ

[Sandy Freckle]

53 minutes ago, DonDoRondo said:

If any of the Dalat posters are from the USA, could you share whether or not you caught any anti-american sentiment from the local people because of past history?  I'm going to spend some time there, or in Danang, later this year and am looking at possibly staying long term.  My shelf life in CM is now just over 6 months, however, I keep coming back after trying somewhere else.  Just returned after making an easy decision that CM > Goa.

Anti American sentiment..., mate, that ship sailed long ago. Anyway as I understand it, during what some locals call the American war, Dalat was allegedly deemed by both sides as some kind of neutral ground and (also allegedly) various upper echelon types(officers etc) would go to Dalat for some time out. Please excuse me if I've got the wrong end of the stick..., if others have better quality info maybe they could be forthcoming with it ? Whatever..., comparatively very little highland action happened thereabouts anyways..., action was more towards the central highlands around Buon Ma Thuot to the north  and west of Dalat. DonDoRondo the locals will love you and your US$. Don't sweat it..., I'm Aussie and I've always found the Vietnamese very friendly and welcoming..., especially outside the big cities....., and especially if you're paying...., even long ago when I first visited (within months of the old USSR collapsing). You would get better quality info by posting any questions you have re:Vietnam, on the Regional forums at the bottom of this forum list. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Sandy Freckle

[Sandy Freckle]

48 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

"... it's a relatively short drive up from HCMC."

 

I was planning to ask about this in a new thread when I get to LOS, but since you've mentioned this - is that the best way to get there from LOS - fly to HCMC and rent a car?

 

The thing that I think I'd find most difficult outside of LOS is that I'm a vegetarian and mostly vegan - I've learned a bit of Thai, but none of any other Asian language.

 

I reckon it's one way to get there..., a VIP bus HCMC might be a better, more relaxing and safer way...., unless of course you know where your going and like a challenge......, the "pass" up into the highlands can be tricky. Might be easier to hire a car up there.
Also might be better quality info than I can give you, in the Regional section - at the bottom of these forums.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Sandy Freckle

[Flustered]

22 hours ago, Sambotte said:

To answer to the topic : where similar to Chiang Mai, well, Chiang Rai looks very good... Smaller but develloped, more relax, less traffic, and less pollution ! Because it's not in a small valley like CM, and less traffic, less diesel...

 

And more air ! Appreciated with the smooky season not yet finished, although it has been raining, dangerous level of pm2.5 re-raise again and again...

Please, stop promoting Chiang Rai. It's about the only reasonably sized town in Thailand that has not been ruined by the drugs, sex and rock 'n roll party goers.  555

 

Lets keep it, quiet, civilised and an attractive place to live.

[Bill97]

Like Chiang Rai does not have an air pollution equal or worse than CM?

[mesquite]

10 hours ago, DonDoRondo said:

If any of the Dalat posters are from the USA, could you share whether or not you caught any anti-american sentiment from the local people because of past history?  I'm going to spend some time there, or in Danang, later this year and am looking at possibly staying long term.  My shelf life in CM is now just over 6 months, however, I keep coming back after trying somewhere else.  Just returned after making an easy decision that CM > Goa.

I'm an American and I have never gotten any problem about that war, which was long, long ago.  Virtually everyone I encounter in VN wasn't even born then.  I believe all of the "issues" exist in the heads of Americans only.

Edited May 5, 2017 by mesquite

[Berkshire]

6 hours ago, Flustered said:

Please, stop promoting Chiang Rai. It's about the only reasonably sized town in Thailand that has not been ruined by the drugs, sex and rock 'n roll party goers.  555

 

Lets keep it, quiet, civilised and an attractive place to live.

I like Chiang Rai, visited there many times.  But each time I visit, it gets more and more congested.  And the air?  Well, sometimes it's worse than Chiang Mai.  But still a nice little town.  Enjoy it while you can...

[mesquite]

10 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

"... it's a relatively short drive up from HCMC."

 

I was planning to ask about this in a new thread when I get to LOS, but since you've mentioned this - is that the best way to get there from LOS - fly to HCMC and rent a car?

 

The thing that I think I'd find most difficult outside of LOS is that I'm a vegetarian and mostly vegan - I've learned a bit of Thai, but none of any other Asian language.

 

I take Vietjet from HCMC to Dalat.  Discount airline, cheap.

[grin]

I visited a friend who retired in Da Nang a few times before he died. Never saw any anti-American sentiment. If anything people were pro-American. He was able to own a house there and in my limited experience the Vietnamese spoke better English than Thais.