Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, newnative said:

Spot on!  61 pages of mostly the sky is falling nonsense but finally here's a succinct gem. Which, unfortunately, will be mostly ignored because too many posters seem to enjoy needlessly tormenting themselves.

 

I just saw a piece of the sky fall into the pool, and a whole flock of flying pigs went past the balcony. Where is the entertainment value in letting the facts get in the way of a good story.

[i claudius]

3 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

The newspaper we are not allowed to post a link to with initials BP has posted an article that says that this new long stay visa is the new retirement visa. Panic.

 

I just read the article and and nowhere does it say that this replaces anything , it just says that there is a new 10 year visa for "eligible" foreigners , 

panic over.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, i claudius said:

 

I just read the article and and nowhere does it say that this replaces anything , it just says that there is a new 10 year visa for "eligible" foreigners , 

panic over.

 

I read the same article, doesn't it say "extend the current one year visa" (1st paragragh)

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

The newspaper we are not allowed to post a link to with initials BP has posted an article that says that this new long stay visa is the new retirement visa. Panic.

Don't panic.  Use your brain.

[i claudius]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

 

I read the same article, doesn't it say "extend the current one year visa" (1st paragragh)

To be honest its so Ambiguous, it doesnt say anything much ,you could read it any way you like , but i cant see it as anything but another way to stay .

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, i claudius said:

To be honest its so Ambiguous, it doesnt say anything much ,you could read it any way you like , but i cant see it as anything but another way to stay .

 

Some comma's would be good, as they do effect the meaning. As it reads, the foreigner has been extended and the visa needs to report every 90 days.

 

An ambiguous press releases, translated from Thai, with no punctuation. I would sell my house based on that, lol

[zombie nights]

My view: all remains the same but this new 10 year one gives an additional option to those who can meet the financial conditions.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by zombie nights

[siam2007]

33 minutes ago, zombie nights said:

My view: all remains the same but this new 10 year one gives an additional option to those who can meet the financial conditions.

 

 

 

We will eventually learn about it, but at the moment, the powers to be are still busy reading the 1000+ posts of this topic  -_-

[newnative]

The new visa 10 year OPTION only applies to 14 countries.  Think about that for a minute. China is not on it. Russia is not on it. Korea is not on it.  Greece, Spain, and Ireland are not on it.  Austria, Belgium, Israel, and New Zealand are not on it.  Thailand is embarking on a number of important trade deals with China.  Does anyone really think Thailand would change the retirement visa so it kicks out all the Chinese retirees and angers China at the same time? Or all the current and future Russian retirees?  Eliminates everyone from all the many other countries not on the list from retiring here and kicks out the ones that are here now?  Use your brain.

[mania]

15 hours ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Well I've already put the house up for sale today, now I'm looking for somewhere to sell the car. I'm not waiting for details it seems very clear whats going on in this country right now. Time to move on.

 

You might be a little behind the curve depending on price sought & location..

There is quite the glut already due to the irrational exuberance in building of new condos
moo bans etc these last couple years.

 

We did ok selling everything this past summer & moving

We saw a lot of things we did not think were headed in a great direction

these last 2 years & with the "other" big change that occurred after we sold we

felt it was going to add to the stress building here

 

We did not foresee this visa thing but always knew it could change at anytime

plus in CM at least it had gotten just so far out in the last year or two it just sucked the fun

out of life here. Felt more like a numbered prisoner under house arrest

Good Luck with your move

[tukkytuktuk]

2 hours ago, mania said:

 

You might be a little behind the curve depending on price sought & location..

There is quite the glut already due to the irrational exuberance in building of new condos
moo bans etc these last couple years.

 

We did ok selling everything this past summer & moving

We saw a lot of things we did not think were headed in a great direction

these last 2 years & with the "other" big change that occurred after we sold we

felt it was going to add to the stress building here

 

We did not foresee this visa thing but always knew it could change at anytime

plus in CM at least it had gotten just so far out in the last year or two it just sucked the fun

out of life here. Felt more like a numbered prisoner under house arrest

Good Luck with your move

Well thank you, but it won't be immediately first I have to sort out a residence visa for my wife and son. This will take 3 months.

 

As for the opinion page in one of the top 2 English language newspapers. There is no doubt left. New Thailand. Cheap Charlie get out, Richie Rich please stay.

 

I'm not bitter, just sad, love living in Los and this will hurt my wife and child the most. 

 

What can you do? We're still hoping this visa change will be scrapped. Until then it's get everything ready to up sticks and go. As I said before, selling a house, car, getting visas etc takes a long time. I'm getting ready now. It makes sense to plan ahead.

[alocacoc]

3 hours ago, i claudius said:

 

I just read the article and and nowhere does it say that this replaces anything , it just says that there is a new 10 year visa for "eligible" foreigners , 

panic over.

That's right. But it remembers me to the early announcement of the METV. Finally it was a replacement and qualify for it became harder.

 

imo, even if this will not end as an replacement, wouldn't it make sense in the eyes of the GOV to change the requirements of the old visa as well? For example, 1.2MB instead of 800k. Plus health insurance.  But this is all speculation. However, good luck to all.

[mcfish]

LISTEN UP everybody

 

I just did a 90 day report at Jomtien and when that was done I asked the lovely lady immigration officer about the 10 year visa

 

The ANSWER?

 

Yes its currently being processed so sounds like it will happen

 

I then asked will it replace my retirement extension?

 

the ANSWER?

NO 

 

her exact words..up to you ,can stay on retirement extension or go 10 year(5x5).up to you!

 

[dentonian]

The chaos in this topic is because members are allowed to use incorrect terminology and subsequently don't know the difference between a Visa and an Extension.

A Visa is obtained from a Thai Embassy/Consulate which allows entry to Thailand.

An extension is obtained from a local Immigration office within Thailand's borders.

 

A Visa expires either on the 'valid before' date, or the 'enter before date'. You can remain in Thailand by extending the 'permission to stay' an original Visa allowed. You cannot extend the Visa.

 

The proposal is to introduce a new 5 year Visa, which can be extended to 10 years. Namely the Non Imm O-A Visa, which can only be obtained from your home Country, or a Country you have permanent residency status (not Thailand).

 

Therefore there is no proposed change to Non Imm O SE 90 day Visas, or the Non Imm O ME Visa.

There is also no proposed change to obtained 'extensions' of stay based on retirement or marriage.

 

Stop the scaremongering!

[Thaidream]

Thank you for some sensible posts based upon fact, especially mcfish who actually asked an Immigration Officer regarding the issue and also dentonian whose point is well taken and a good explanation of the difference between a Visa and an extension of stay,

[watgate]

7 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Some of you have suggested there's been an over reaction too this subject, to those people I would say you need to pay attention to the direction this takes us in and some of the  reasons for this offering.

 

One of the oft stated aims is to increase the quality of tourists and that includes expats. Put simply it means they want more wealthy individuals living here and they want to get rid of the bottom feeding layers, those who work illegally as a result of financial hardship, those who run up huge bills at hospitals and then can't/wont pay them, those who break the law by overstaying their visa because they need to get under the radar because they're broke, and so on and so on. The 3 million in the bank AND the health insurance helps meet this objective and if it were applied across the board as being one of only a handful of similar visa's, many problems would be solved.

 

My guess is certainly that if the take up on this visa is sufficient we will see other similar visa's introduced, perhaps with slightly modified T's & C's, look for proof of the health insurance policy to be reaffirmed EVERY year of the visa and look for the length of time the money in the bank is required to remain untouched to increase.

 

So whilst none of this is likely to come about all at once and not all at once, the direction is clear and who can blame them. They want to solve the problems and the financial loss caused by (some) foreigners being here, until that happens the likelihood that 90 day reports and TM30 reports will go away are non-existent, simply because they don't know who they can and can't trust at this stage, the chancers or the few spoil things for the majority.

Chiang Mai-  Since you are against taking out health insurance policies and with your pre-existing conditions, you most likely would not be able to anyway, what do you intend to do, if and when a retiree has to take out the required amount of health insurance when renewing their retirement extension?

[dentonian]

7 minutes ago, watgate said:

Chiang Mai-  Since you are against taking out health insurance policies and with your pre-existing conditions, you most likely would not be able to anyway, what do you intend to do, if and when a retiree has to take out the required amount of health insurance when renewing their retirement extension?

 

That is not and never will be a requirement of obtaining an extension and is not relevant to this topic.

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, dentonian said:

The chaos in this topic is because members are allowed to use incorrect terminology and subsequently don't know the difference between a Visa and an Extension.

A Visa is obtained from a Thai Embassy/Consulate which allows entry to Thailand.

An extension is obtained from a local Immigration office within Thailand's borders.

 

A Visa expires either on the 'valid before' date, or the 'enter before date'. You can remain in Thailand by extending the 'permission to stay' an original Visa allowed. You cannot extend the Visa.

 

The proposal is to introduce a new 5 year Visa, which can be extended to 10 years. Namely the Non Imm O-A Visa, which can only be obtained from your home Country, or a Country you have permanent residency status (not Thailand).

 

Therefore there is no proposed change to Non Imm O SE 90 day Visas, or the Non Imm O ME Visa.

There is also no proposed change to obtained 'extensions' of stay based on retirement or marriage.

 

Stop the scaremongering!

Actually, it has been mentioned here several times that this new O-A visa (UNLIKE the current one) will be available IN Thailand (assuming it eventually becomes law) for the limited number of nations it is offered to. Will that actually be true after the law goes into effect? I do not know. It's also my assumption that this new thing REPLACES the old O-A for those from the limited nations list. If all that is true, and I am not 100 percent certain of anything for this half baked change, unlike you and some others are pushing, that would have some at least potential downsides that are worth asking about and watching (as the law proceeds):

 

-- For people from the listed nations, they could no longer apply for an O-A visa under the current levels, again, ASSUMING this replaces O-A for those nations. That would mean a useful option that people have now ... GONE. 

 

-- That would mean for those nationals if trying to start in the system, their only choices other than the new O-A, would be start with an O visa (not O-A) either from home country (likely often or potentially always not possible for reason of retirement, this isn't a fake concern, it's already happening a lot for the current system), neighboring country like Malaysia (notoriously FICKLE with surprising enforcement policy changes often discovered when expats have already traveled there), or within Thailand as part of the two step process with the second step being extension.

 

That would leave such people looking to START in the system from the listed nations in a potentially vulnerable situation, if ENFORCEMENT changes for example in neighboring nations offering O visas for later retirement extensions or even within Thailand.

 

The other red flag is the health insurance requirement for the new visa. It's a precedent. It's should serve as a WARNING clue that a similar requirement for all retirement status expats may follow later.

 

To add, in the fullness of time, IF it turns out the people that are 100 percent certain that there will be no negative consequences to this change turn out to be correct, don't even bother taunting, I told you do, neener neener neener. Instead, that would be GREAT NEWS but I'm not ready to celebrate that yet until we REALLY know. Too early for that. 

 

I have never said 100 percent there would be negative consequences. I'm just not ready to push an attitude of 100 percent certainty that there won't be until we actually know that. This isn't finished law yet so it's absurd for anyone to be lecturing to people with 100 percent certainty that they really know the full details of how this is going to be. You don't. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

That is not and never will be a requirement of obtaining an extension and is not relevant to this topic.

 

 

You're being ABSURD now. You do NOT know that. Who are you to know that? About the future? YOU DO NOT.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Jingthing

[dentonian]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Actually, it has been mentioned here several times that this new O-A visa (UNLIKE the current one) will be available IN Thailand (assuming it eventually becomes law) for the limited number of nations it is offered to. Will that actually be true after the law goes into effect? I do not know. It's also my assumption that this new thing REPLACES the old O-A for those from the limited nations list. If all that is true, and I am not 100 percent certain of anything for this half baked change, unlike you and some others are pushing, that would have some at least potential downsides that are worth asking about and watching (as the law proceeds):

 

-- For people from the listed nations, they could no longer apply for an O-A visa under the current levels, again, ASSUMING this replaces O-A for those nations. That would mean a useful option that people have now ... GONE. 

 

-- That would mean for those nationals if trying to start in the system, their only choices other than the new O-A, would be start with an O visa (not O-A) either from home country (likely often or potentially always not possible for reason of retirement, this isn't a fake concern, it's already happening a lot for the current system), neighboring country like Malaysia (notoriously FICKLE with surprising enforcement policy changes often discovered when expats have already traveled there), or within Thailand as part of the two step process with the second step being extension.

 

That would leave such people looking to START in the system from the listed nations in a potentially vulnerable situation, if ENFORCEMENT changes for example in neighboring nations offering O visas for later retirement extensions or even within Thailand.

 

The other red flag is the health insurance requirement for the new visa. It's a precedent. It's should serve as a WARNING clue that a similar requirement for all retirement status expats may follow later.

 

To add, in the fullness of time, it turns out the people that are 100 percent certain that there are no negative consequences to this change turn out to be correct, don't even bother taunting, I told you do, neener neener neener.

 

I have never said 100 percent there would be negative consequences. I'm just not ready to push an attitude of 100 percent certainty that there won't be until we actually know that. This isn't finished law yet so it's absurd for anyone to be lecturing to people with 100 percent certainty that they really know the full details of how this is going to be. You don't. 

 

Your posts are becoming quite erratic on this topic.

I thing your beginning to believe your own signature quote.

 

To many have posted speculation to this new proposal and confusing the issue.

The only confirmed information is that a new 5 year Visa, which could be extended to 10 years is being introduced.

How this will affect the current 1 year Non Imm O-A Visa is not yet known, but it certainly doesn't affect any other kind of Visa or Extension.

 

Any suggestion of what if, but, or maybe is pure speculation and scaremongering.

We should wait for further announcements from the Thai government exactly how the new Visa will operate and when, or even if the current 1 year Non Imm O-A Visa will be affected. 

[Jingthing]

Dude, that's excellent. We have found a COMMON GROUND of agreement. Don't be pushing certainty when there is no certainty. WAIT FOR THAT.  I'm behind that 100 percent. 

[dentonian]

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're being ABSURD now. You do NOT know that. Who are you to know that? About the future? YOU DO NOT.

 

Healthcare for extensions does not come under the remit of this topic, so I refuse to be drawn into a conversion on this matter.

 

If you are so concerned for the future requirements of obtaining extensions, please open a separate topic.

[Thaidream]

No one knows the future and no one is lecturing anyone regarding their angst and no one is saying anything in life is 100%.  However, based on past experience; knowledge of Thailand and its laws; contacts within the immigration Department one can draw logical conclusions on certain aspects of proposed changes. For example:

- There is a history of Grandfathering for those already here and on extensions of stays- leading one to  believe with a high degree of certainty this will be done again if necessary,

-  Visas are only issued outside of Thailand and there are certain types of Visas that have different levels and requirements such as the Non O and Multiple Non O plus SETV and METV- leading one to believe with a degree of certainty that the new Visa will be a different level of the O-A with higher requirements because of the length of the Visa.

-Regarding the Health requirement- there is no level of certainty because there is no history to go on although my instincts tell me it probably won't apply to the current people on extensions and if it did there are ways to meet the requirement.  I am certain many insurance companies will be anxious to provide minimum coverage policies with high deductibles to meet this requirement at a reasonable cost.

My frustration with the argument has been the constant rumination that the worst will happen; that the Thai Government hates us; that we are being forced to leave in droves. Then there are those who believe that because their  incomes are high all the rest should adopt their lifestyle or get out if they don't have  3 million Baht ready to put into a bank and leave it sit. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion -however- the point is that there are tens of thousands of decent people from around the World who have made Thailand their home and retired and have met all the qualifications and are legal. They don't bother anyone; contribute to the economy via purchase of goods and services and live and let live. I  have a high level of confidence that these people will not see any changes in the requirements and that the new Visa scheme will be an option to anyone able to meet those requirements.  There is no 100% guarantee in life. Most people make decisions in life based upon their experiences; contacts and research.

[chiang mai]

48 minutes ago, watgate said:

Chiang Mai-  Since you are against taking out health insurance policies and with your pre-existing conditions, you most likely would not be able to anyway, what do you intend to do, if and when a retiree has to take out the required amount of health insurance when renewing their retirement extension?

 

As said in a separate post today: I plan on splitting my year between the UK and Thailand form January onwards, six months in both location. This is something I have been planning on for some time and only a recent bequest of property in the North of England has made me bring plans forward by a year, it's not related in anyway to the subject we're discussing here, it's about avoiding the hottest weather here and the burning season.

 

All of the above means that I will once again be eligible for UK NHS treatment free of charge, it also means I'll be able to buy trip insurance for the six months I am here.

 

BTW I am NOT against health insurance, I merely contend that there are viable options for some and that includes self insurance, something I have done successfully for fifteen years, if a person doesn't have the cash I don't recommend not buying health insurance at all.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

Healthcare for extensions does not come under the remit of this topic, so I refuse to be drawn into a conversion on this matter.

 

If you are so concerned for the future requirements of obtaining extensions, please open a separate topic.

Deflection. You stated here definitively with full certainty that health insurance requirement would NEVER happen with retirement extensions. I suggest that you just RETRACT that statement because last time I checked, you're not an all knowing God of everything that will happen in future. In any case, I see that you won't because you have an EGO investment in your POV, but common sense readers can understand that you have no such knowledge and ALSO that the PRECEDENT of health insurance requirement for this half baked NEW VISA is indeed at the very least a warning sign that Thai immigration is very concerned about the situation of older retired expats getting sick (as people tend to do) and not being able to get the care they need. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Jingthing

[lkv]

17 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Visas are only issued outside of Thailand

 

PE visas can also be issued in Suvarnabhumi. VOAs are issued on arrival.

Conversions to Non Imm visas can also be done locally.

[Thaidream]

Visas such as the O-A are only issued outside of Thailand. There are conversions issued inside Thailand and VOA like you said in Thailand. In my opinion under the proposal I would imagine one could enter Thailand on a tourist Visa- request a Non O for the purpose of 10 year long stay-  present the documents- get the Visa and then return before the 90 days are up and get an extension under the 10 year scheme uneless they change that which is always a possibility and no 100% certainty.

[Jingthing]

You're guessing. A big issue here for those from the listed nations is whether the new 5 - 10 visa replaces the O-A visa for those nationals. I don't think is something we can definitively know either way as yet. 

[newnative]

2 hours ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Well thank you, but it won't be immediately first I have to sort out a residence visa for my wife and son. This will take 3 months.

 

As for the opinion page in one of the top 2 English language newspapers. There is no doubt left. New Thailand. Cheap Charlie get out, Richie Rich please stay.

 

I'm not bitter, just sad, love living in Los and this will hurt my wife and child the most. 

 

What can you do? We're still hoping this visa change will be scrapped. Until then it's get everything ready to up sticks and go. As I said before, selling a house, car, getting visas etc takes a long time. I'm getting ready now. It makes sense to plan ahead.

Get a grip, Tuk.  There's absolutely no visa reason for you to leave.  Just keep using the same visa you have been using--no changes there!  I will likely keep using my one year extension visa that I have been using for 6 years.  If that is what you use, just keep using it, too.   This is just a different visa OPTION,  being given to just 14 countries.  It's not a replacement for any of the other current visa types now used.  It's not a change for any of the other current visa types now used.  Relax.

[dentonian]

11 minutes ago, lkv said:

 

Conversions to Non Imm visas can also be done locally.

 

Only for the purpose of meeting the requirements to obtain an extension of stay based on retirement or marriage.

The financial requirements for an extension must also be proved for the conversion.

 

This internal service is primarily for those who wish to retire in Thailand, but for one reason or another obtained the wrong type of Visa to obtain an 1 year extension.