Thailand's New 10-Year Visas Meet Mixed Reactions

[PattayaAJF]

1 minute ago, Chainsaw said:

 

Strange indeed! Maybe they have different rules for a family policy as opposed to a personal one. I hope you continue to get the cover you and your family need.

Could be they are thinking long term and that younger members of your family will continue to pay the premiums after you pass?

i think they do .. i have a family policy with Lamp in London and my coverage (i'm 66) has been consistent for years .. lets wait and see when i turn 70 .. 

[JKfarang]

3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

one thing to come out of this thread, and others like is how close to the edge some retired Expats are living.

 

...

 

I agree with all your comments (and, for the record, only included the 1st sentence of this one) but would like to add that my impression is that the same is true for many if not most retirees in our home country the US.  Through no fault of their own, most retirement pensions have been phased out in favor of corporate profits and 401K plans; originally designed to benefit the wealthy but expanded to force people into the US stock market , which few (including myself) are prepared to invest in wisely.  The result: more and more US retirees have little more than their meager Social Security benefits to live on.

 

To those who have no empathy for others that have basically been screwed by their respective governments and former employers (and I am NOT referring to you NCC...), I have nothing nice to say.  Society should be judged on the way it treats the least advantaged and, in my judgement anyway, most societies have failed miserably.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, gchurch259 said:

I have been here 13 years and have wanted a 5 or 10 year Visa ever since I went to get the extension the first, what a pain in the rear end every year. Now at 81 I can get one and have a reason to live 5 more years so I can extend again.

 

I want them to get into the 21Century an get rid of the stupid 90 Report for those who have property/wife's property.

 

I am retired USAF and they cover my Insurance up to 75%. My Thailand wife's Insurance is 28,000THB a year, plus my USAF covers her too.

 

Happy Thanksgiving to all the "Yanks" out there !!

I'm in the same boat as you...that is U.S. military Tricare for Life coverage at 75% reimbursement worldwide as a military retiree.  And this coverage has no "limit per year" for inpatient or outpatient coverage.  

 

What was not addressed about the medical coverage requirement was if "foreign medical coverage" will be accepted or they will only accept Thai medical insurance.   

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, rexall said:

There is something, some catch or something not being disclosed here (Imagine that!)  Do you really think Imm is prepared to turn falang loose for FIVE years with no tabs on them other than the 90 Report? That is completely inconsistent with the screws Imm has been slowly tightening over the years.  Besides, what would happen to the forestry industry which supplies the trees to the paper industry which makes the paper for all those bzillions of photocopies we give to Imm every year?  

 

I doesnt add up without more details. I can see lots of visit to immigration with this 10 year visa, 90 day, TM30 each time you reenter or move, Visits to prove you still have insurance and funds. Resident certificate etc

[PattayaAJF]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

What was not addressed about the medical coverage requirement was if "foreign medical coverage" will be accepted or they will only accept Thai medical insurance.   

 

currently overseas policies are acceptable if accredited (whatever that means) .. my youngest son just spent 12 days in BHP (5 days in ICU) and i only paid the deductible .. the bill was over THB320,000 so i am thankful for Family Insurance .. 

 

[rexall]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

I doesnt add up without more details. I can see lots of visit to immigration with this 10 year visa, 90 day, TM30 each time you reenter or move, Visits to prove you still have insurance and funds. Resident certificate etc

Exactly!  Then what is the point of the 10 visa in the first place?  Extending a retirement visa is a small pain in the ass, but a completely routine process;  I am in-and-out of Imm in 30 minutes and there has never been a problem worth mentioning.  

[Pib]

15 minutes ago, PattayaAJF said:

 

currently overseas policies are acceptable if accredited (whatever that means) .. my youngest son just spent 12 days in BHP (5 days in ICU) and i only paid the deductible .. the bill was over THB320,000 so i am thankful for Family Insurance .. 

 

I'm not really talking about whether a hospital will accept your foreign medical insurance and you do not have to pay the hospital yourself.   Whether a hospital accepts a certain insurance and will bill your insurance company directly varies greatly from hospital to hospital, but I expect most hospitals would bill you directly versus billing a foreign medical insurer.  Tricare requires you to pay the hospital upfront and then you submit for reimbursement which takes about 30 days.  Been doing this for years now in Thailand.   

 

I'm talking about whether the "govt/immigration would accept it for the 10 year Visa requirement?"....not whether a hospital happens to accept your foreign insurance.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Pib

[Arkady]

Since the availability of insurance meeting the requirements will be questionable for over 70s, the government ought to provide some type of 'buy-in" into its 30 baht scheme, like it does for migrant workers.  Come up with a reasonable package and charge a reasonable price and it could be a winner.   But they probably won't think it through that far.

 

I wonder, if someone who had worked in Thailand for 15 years and then chose to use this visa for retirement could show his Social Security Insurance coverage, or would that insurance be considered inadequate for foreigners but OK for Thais.  Of course, most of these should have been able to get PR, if they wanted it, before retirement.

 

Malaysia's scheme requires showing about double the amount of funds but provides a lot more benefits: 10 years renewable rather than 5 years renewable; allowed to own a plot of residential land; allowed to import household effects and car duty free; allowed to get a visa to bring in a maid or personal servant from overseas etc.

 

If this is the carrot I wonder what is the stick, based on the good guys in, bad guys out policy.  The financial hurdles for retirement and marriage extensions have not been revised for over 10 years but B800k and B400k respectively for one-year extensions actually seem in line with the B3m required for 5+5. Perhaps there isn't a stick in mind but it would open the way for one later.

 

I wonder if it will allow working like the Elite Card does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[retarius]

It's not rocket science really to design a decent visa system. Unfortunately it seems to be beyond the ken of Thais. 90 day reporting is an absolute joke. Vet the people who you allow to have a visa and then let them stay. Why not issue approved retirement visa holders with an ID card? Why all this paper. My file must be one foot thick but no one has ever looked in it, every time I go it is like I have never been there before. About 5 years ago they started putting files on the computer…but then inexplicably moved back to a paper system the following year. Yes the IT hub of ASEAN and they don;t even use computers for immigration…yes, Thailand and Gambia the last holdouts for the paper based storage.

[thailandtraveler]

Just1Voice!! I don't know if i can add a link in here..but i am very happy with my insurance after i cancelled two other insurances!

Affordable health insurance

• up to 70 years entry age possible

• no age-related increase in contributions

• no cancellation after occurred disease

• customer support in English, German and Thai language

• no payment in advance in the hospital by presenting the insurance card

My girlfriend is sales agent for this insurance and i guess she will be happy to assist you and some others if needed with infos and a quotation! if the link i posted will be deleted by admins...then please just search on facebook for thailandsinsurance!

www.facebook.com/thailandsinsurance

 

in case it is not allowed to post things like that...sorry for that! 

 

 

[Arkady]

3 minutes ago, retarius said:

It's not rocket science really to design a decent visa system. Unfortunately it seems to be beyond the ken of Thais. 90 day reporting is an absolute joke. Vet the people who you allow to have a visa and then let them stay. Why not issue approved retirement visa holders with an ID card? Why all this paper. My file must be one foot thick but no one has ever looked in it, every time I go it is like I have never been there before. About 5 years ago they started putting files on the computer…but then inexplicably moved back to a paper system the following year. Yes the IT hub of ASEAN and they don;t even use computers for immigration…yes, Thailand and Gambia the last holdouts for the paper based storage.

 

Amazingly they have pretty good registry systems for finding old hard copy files. I had to get files that were 15-20 years old in Immigration and in a district office and thought it would take hours or be unavailable. In both cases, the files were found within about 10 minutes.  Nevertheless, it is a huge waste of paper, space and effort.  The Foreign Ministry seems the only government agency that the general public deal with that doesn't hoard paper.  Their passport database is completely computerised.

[Anthony5]

3 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

Then if it's after a year he can use 50% of the three Mil.  Or just get private treatment with a little of that 3 Mil you never locked away

 

IF

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, TechnikaIII said:

My best health insurance policy is the funds in the bank for a short-notice return to Australia, where my Medicare card takes care of hospital bills. And I keep an ambulance subscription up to date. 

 

I'm assuming you have kept your residency status, otherwise your up shit creek, i.e. 183 days out of the country and your a foreign resident with Medicare ceasing to be your mate, but like I said, you have probably kept your residency status, i.e. you spend less than 183 days out of Australia ?

[Anthony5]

 

 

4 hours ago, vukovar77 said:

I will never pay expensive insurance in Thailand .I am 59 and if I have some bigger health problems ,I need to go in EU in my country and I can get all free with my card there!!!

 

3 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

And how about if you're not able or allowed to travel to your home country?

 

3 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

Then if it's after a year he can use 50% of the three Mil.  Or just get private treatment with a little of that 3 Mil you never locked away

 

Someone who comes on here telling us he is aware of having serious health problems, then announces that he plain refuses to take a health insurance that covers him in Thailand, should be refused entry to Thailand under all circumstances.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Anthony5

[Anthony5]

6 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

6 hours ago, TechnikaIII said:

My best health insurance policy is the funds in the bank for a short-notice return to Australia, where my Medicare card takes care of hospital bills. And I keep an ambulance subscription up to date. 

 

I'm assuming you have kept your residency status, otherwise your up shit creek, i.e. 183 days out of the country and your a foreign resident with Medicare ceasing to be your mate, but like I said, you have probably kept your residency status, i.e. you spend less than 183 days out of Australia ?

 

 

And how about having an illness that doesn't allow you to travel back to your country?

 

As I said in an earlier post, people who are that ignorant, should not be given a visa.

[JackThompson]

 

I can see why the Thais don't want to get stuck with the bill, of course.  All that should be needed is a "Stablize and return to your country" policy.   It should be required for all, and sold at immigration-checkpoints and immigration offices, for those who don't have it. 

 

Most folks retired here, and who are too old to get local coverage, get it automatically back home.   If those countries wanted to be smart about it, they'd offer to cover the bills here, and save a lot.

 

4 hours ago, natway09 said:

Singaporeans in Oz have to bring twice that into the country to live there.

 

Last I checked, a room in Oz at a cheap hotel was 8x the cost of the same in Thailand.   So, to be reasonable, set the amount in the bank at 8x less.  The problem with the Elite, and this new/proposed plan, is they are totally out of whack with the cost of living in the country.

[Goethe]

90% of the responses to this topic are all about ME, ME, ME!

Individual circumstances vary greatly, so extrapolating from one's own circumstances is pointless (and boring).

90% of the retirees living in Pattaya (for example) cannot even meet the 65 000 baht per month minimum income -- so the 100 000 baht per month requirement is out of the question.

More important: the health insurance premiums for a person over 70 years of age are prohibitive. I found only one company in Asia willing to insure me, but they wanted $800 per month.

 

Bottom line: The fear-mongering caused by this topic is a gross exaggeration. The new visa will be an alternative for those who can afford it. The rest of us will be allowed to continue our lives as before.

 

P.S. We live in an age of terrorism, so the requirement to report to Immigration every 90 days is reasonable.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Goethe

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, Docno said:

Going without health insurance is admittedly a bit of a gamble. But remember that insurance companies make healthy profits from health insurance. That means that most insured persons don't get back what they put in. In the aggregate, the odds are with the uninsured who keep money in their pocket rather than giving it to insurance companies and not getting equal or greater value in return. Of course, the gamble lies in the fact that you may be the person that one day faces a catastrophic condition for which health insurance would make a difference. I've been taking the gambler's route for the last many years (I have comfortable savings), but it was sobering to learn that two friends this year, both in their mid-50s, needed major surgery (one brain, one colon) as the result of cancer diagnoses. They didn't gamble, and that decision paid off for them.... 

 

I'm in the same boat as you, but I have a pre-existing condition, i.e. a single stent in one of my artery's which was inserted after a clot was removed, that was 8 years ago, no issues and young and fit at 56 now, but no one will touch me with a pre-existing, they will however take 100,000 baht a year for health insurance, but I see no value in that, unless they are prepared to take on my pre-existing condition, suffice to say I know the game they are playing, i.e. once you hit a certain age, they drop you, so they can all go and get farked, as I am financial enough to cover my own health insurance, c..ts !

Edited November 24, 2016 by 4MyEgo

[Peterw42]

6 hours ago, TechnikaIII said:

My best health insurance policy is the funds in the bank for a short-notice return to Australia, where my Medicare card takes care of hospital bills. And I keep an ambulance subscription up to date. 

 

So if you lost a leg in a car accident and it needed to be sewn back on, would that be in your carry on bag or stowed in your luggage. 

I have thought the same, but the reality of when you need a hospital wouldn't allow you to travel

[PattayaAJF]

23 minutes ago, Pib said:

I'm talking about whether the "govt/immigration would accept it for the 10 year Visa requirement?"....not whether a hospital happens to accept your foreign insurance.

 

yes Pib you are right .. it is far to optimistic of me to imply that existing arrangements here through Medilink Thailand will be acceptable under the new regulations .. sorry about that .. 

[4MyEgo]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

I can see why the Thais don't want to get stuck with the bill, of course.  All that should be needed is a "Stablize and return to your country" policy.   It should be required for all, and sold at immigration-checkpoints and immigration offices, for those who don't have it. 

 

Most folks retired here, and who are too old to get local coverage, get it automatically back home.   If those countries wanted to be smart about it, they'd offer to cover the bills here, and save a lot.

 

 

Last I checked, a room in Oz at a cheap hotel was 8x the cost of the same in Thailand.   So, to be reasonable, set the amount in the bank at 8x less.  The problem with the Elite, and this new/proposed plan, is they are totally out of whack with the cost of living in the country.

 

 Only one small thing you may have overlooked Jack, is Medicare doesn't cover you once your out of the country for more than 183 days, so flying back to Oz for medical treatment will be at your expense.

[louse1953]

5 hours ago, anotheruser said:

 

That is doubtful. Travel insurance isn't for people residing abroad. So if the terms of travel insurance do not cover you why would this be accepted? I am pretty sure they will want your policy to actually be "valid". lol

55,any insurance company will take your money.New policy every year,been there,done that.

[anotheruser]

3 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

55,any insurance company will take your money.New policy every year,been there,done that.

 

Read what I was replying to. I never said I don't think he couldn't get travel insurance. I did say I didn't think it would be possible to use a travel insurance policy as a guarantee to a long term visa. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by anotheruser

[Jackin1960]

7 hours ago, alocacoc said:

What concerns him is the requirement that one must have health insurance covering hospital stays and annual coverage worth at least USD$10,000.

“I’m not sure about the compulsory medical insurance, though,” Carter said. “Never encountered a rule like this before.”

Many insurance companies do not cover at the required level, he added.

 

I don't get it. 10000 USD is nothing. I spent 700 000 baht in one week at Bangkok Hospital. Then, my intl. insurance is not limited to a certain amount of money.

 

And, how can someone retire abroad without a health insurance? That's insane.

I don't have medical insurance and I doubt if people like Trump bother ether. Then again not every one can afford the medical expenses.

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, anotheruser said:

 

I agree utter madness. Name one place in Europe that will let me live there without having health coverage. The 77 year old Scot that thinks insurance is a swindle doesn't have 3 million Baht to put in the bank and is unwilling to buy insurance. lol

 

I have no idea why they would be concerned this man at his advanaced age would be a burden on the system at some point. Sounds like a quality guy, just what any country would want.

 

They should waive the insurance requirement for those unable/unwilling to buy insurance. The catch would be you have to voluntarily sign a euthanasia contract. So if you get hurt or become ill and can't afford care you consent being put down with as much ceremony as a soi dog. You would be required to have enough money permanently in an account to pay for the procedure.

 

So what do you then do when health insurers choose who they want to take on, i.e. once you are older than 65 most drop your policy and if your fortunate enough like me to have a pre-existing condition that is so minuscule, they won't cover me, and if I returned to my place of birth for a procedure, the Medicare system no longer recognises me because although a citizen of that country, I am a non resident, talk about a shit storm, a tax payer of 40 years, thank you Australia, "the lucky country" my ass !!! 

Edited November 24, 2016 by 4MyEgo

[Kerryd]

12 minutes ago, retarius said:

It's not rocket science really to design a decent visa system. Unfortunately it seems to be beyond the ken of Thais. 90 day reporting is an absolute joke. Vet the people who you allow to have a visa and then let them stay. Why not issue approved retirement visa holders with an ID card? Why all this paper. My file must be one foot thick but no one has ever looked in it, every time I go it is like I have never been there before. About 5 years ago they started putting files on the computer…but then inexplicably moved back to a paper system the following year. Yes the IT hub of ASEAN and they don;t even use computers for immigration…yes, Thailand and Gambia the last holdouts for the paper based storage.

 

Remember, these are the same people that gave a programmer full access to their Immigration database, sensitive parts of which ended up plastered on the internet when some smart bunnies figured out the programmers password was "123456".

 

It really shouldn't be hard at all though. I shake my head when I do a 90 day report (which used to require various proofs of address each time) and, despite that desk having my full details, if I want a Residency Certificate, from a desk 4 meters away, I have to bring in photocopies of my passport and visa pages, and photocopies of "proof of address" again ! It's like each desk is a stand-alone system and none of them are tied into anyone else, which is pretty strange.

Every Immigration office should be connected to a master, National database. If I move to Nakhon Nowhere and report into the local Immigration office, they should be able to scan my passport (or departure card bar code) and presto ! All my details should be on the screen ready for editing or updating or document printing in a flash. If I sit down at the 90 Day desk and the IO updates my address details, when I pop over to another desk to get a new Residency Certificate I shouldn't have to reconfirm all those same details again.

 

If you are on a yearly visa, issue a Non-Immigrant ID card. The details are already in the computer, all that is required is to add a digital photo and then print it out on the card printer (took the driver's license place like 20 seconds to take my photo digitally and then print my new license). 

RFID chip in the card with name and address details encoded. Once a year (or if you change address) stop in at Immigration, run your card through a scanner (so they know you are still in the country and still alive) and bingo ! Good for another year ! (Well, got to renew the extension of stay as well. Maybe.) Allow long-stay foreigners to use that card as ID instead of their passport (for day-to-day matters). 

 

The technology is pretty much already in place. Sheesh, we were printing ID cards (no RFID chips) with security features (holograms and watermarked laminating film) in Kandahar a decade ago.  All that is really needed is a software update and the card printers.

 

This would make life a lot easier for the Immigration Officers everywhere as well as for the long-stay expats. More effective and more efficient equals fewer headaches, shorter queues, better management. 

[louse1953]

5 hours ago, TSF said:

Of course. Saying this is designed to attract medical tourism is insane. Medical tourists stay in the country for the duration of their medical/dental treatment then return home. For 99% of them a 2-month visa is adequate.

If they are coming for medical reasons,it must be pre existing,so insurance will not pay out.Then your gunna hang around for 5 years to see if your cured.This medical tourist caper is a smoke screen for something else.

 

[anotheruser]

5 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

So what do you then do when health insurers choose who they want to take on, i.e. once you are older than 65 most drop your policy and if your fortunate enough like me to have a pre-existing condition that is so minuscule, they won't cover me, and if I returned to my place of birth for a procedure, the Medicare system no longer recognises me because although a citizen of that country, I am a non resident, talk about a shit storm, a tax payer of 40 years, thank you Australia, "the lucky country" my ass !!! 

Same thing people like me that are under 50 and healthy do... buy a TE visa. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Quote

There seemed no clear answers as to whether the visa would be a new offering or replace existing retirement visas.

 

Amazing that another day and another news cycle passes, and no one in authority seems able or willing to address the issue of whether the existing offerings of retirement visas and extensions will remain in tact, or be "replaced" as yesterday's Khaosod English report referenced.

 

But at least the good news is, today's latest report confirms what various folks here worked out on our own yesterday that the new rich people visas are only to be offered to citizens of 14 higher wealth countries -- which is at least some indication that the new offering -- if it ever comes into actual policy -- will be a new and not replacement offering.

 

[anotheruser]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Amazing that another day and another news cycle passes, and no one in authority seems able or willing to address the issue of whether the existing offerings of retirement visas and extensions will remain in tact, or be "replaced" as yesterday's Khaosod English report referenced.

 

But at least the good news is, today's latest report confirms what various folks here worked out on our own yesterday that the new rich people visas are only to be offered to citizens of 14 higher wealth countries -- which is at least some indication that the new offering -- if it ever comes into actual policy -- will be a new and not replacement offering.

 

 

They seem to love leaving things vague and unclear on purpose. Thailand isn't exactly famous for reassuring people that their status here is secure.