Notifying Immigration That Aliens Are In Your Home

[TSF]

I've been reading with interest all these recent threads about aliens staying at houses and T30 and T28 forms, and 24 hours to notify immigration or you are breaking Thai law and will be fined. So lets see if I've got this right. 

My brother and his wife and his 2 children fly to Thailand for a holiday to visit me. I'm married to a Thai woman and we live together in Korat. 

My brother and his family stay a night at a hotel in Bangkok, therefore they don't have to do anything regarding notifying immigration because when they check into the hotel the reception staff take their passports and fill in the required forms, which are forwarded to Bangkok immigration.

Next day brother, wife and 2 kids travel to Korat and come stay as guests at our house. My wife has 24 hours to complete and ledge a T30 form notifying Korat immigration she has 4 new aliens staying at her address. And my brother and his wife and 2 kids have 24 hours to complete and lodge T28 forms notifying Korat immigration that this family of 4 aliens are now staying at this address in Korat.

A day later we all pile into my pickup truck and drive to Buriram to visit my wife's brother who lives there. We get stuck into the Leo and as it's not a good idea for me to drive back drunk we decide to sleep over at my wife's brother's house and drive back to Korat in the morning. So wife's brother now has 24 hours to complete and lodge a T30 form with Buriram immigration notifying them that there are 5 aliens (my brother's family plus me) staying at his house. And we have 24 hours to complete 2 X T28 forms - one for my brother's family and one for me - and lodge these forms with Buriram immigration notifying them that we 5 aliens stayed a night in Buriram.

Then when we return next day to Korat we 5 aliens have 24 hours to complete and lodge T28 forms with Korat immigration notifying them that we are no longer in Buriram and have returned to Korat. And I presume my wife also has 24 hours to complete and lodge a T30 form with Korat immigration notifying them that she once again has 5 aliens staying at her address.

I have lots of Thai and farang friends all over Thailand, and as my brother and his family are on holiday and would like to see as much of Thailand as possible we could drive all over the country visiting my good friends and stopping the night with them and filling in T30 and T28 forms all along the way. A night at Bruce and Nok's place in Udon Thani - T30 from Nok; T28s from we 5 aliens. Next day a night with Gordon and Daeng in Mukdahan - T30 from Daeng; T28s from we 5 aliens. 

So do I have it right? Is this the situation? I believe it is because of what I've read on TV, and on other regional forums there are reports of foreigners and Thais being fined for disregarding these rules at Korat immigration and Chiang Mai immigration.

[tomacht8]

Yes, that is the idiocy in its entire scope.
 

[A1Str8]

Just stay in hotels that way the hotel is required to report the alien. But don't check in under your own name. Have a friend who will check in and you will just casually walk in and stay in the rented room. 

[thedemon]

One solution to this issue is to stop reading this forum thereby remaining as blissfully ignorant as the other 99.9% of visitors to Thailand and their Thai hosts. 

[ukrules]

I wouldn't bother at all.

[Briggsy]

TSF

I believe you have analysed the situation correctly. You have also pointed out how silly the law is.

 

I look at it back to front. I start at the end i.e. When am I obliged to contact immigration for some purpose? Then I imagine I am an immigration officer who has been told to enforce TM30 regulations. (I ignore TM28 because immigration usually do). Then I figure out what I need to say/do in order to give myself some chance of meeting the requirements.

 

If I know I won't be contacting an immigration office, I like most others ignore TM30.

 

[ubonjoe]

Unless your guests need to do something at immigration I would not worry about it.

[JackThompson]

Unless your brother and family will be applying for an extension, they will not need to worry about it - as they are not fining people at the airport or other exit-points (yet).  But if they will be applying for an extension, make sure your wife does a TM-30 after their last hotel-stay, upon return to your home, prior to setting foot in an immigration office.

 

You need to worry if you obtain extensions at immigration (vs using a Multi Non-O to avoid this), and ever register at a hotel.  In that case, your wife will need to do a TM-30 for you when you return to your home.  If you can avoid showing ID to the hotel (as A1Str8 suggests), and provided you have no contact with "authorities" while on your trip, then immigration would not see any entries in their computer which could be used to extract money from her (you).

[6thST]

11 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes, that is the idiocy in its entire scope.
 

Unbelievable 

[Sphere]

Quote

Notifying Immigration That Aliens Are In Your Home

 

This wouldn't be necessary if they'd followed through on that other brainwave.....

 

Thailand tourists 'to be electronically tagged' ...

[Kenegg]

I knew nothing about a T28 until my wife went to immigration to fill in T30 they told me I could have and should have done it online within 24 hours and only needs doing one time. A little tea money solved the problem :-) The immigration I use is new so I think still feeling their way, I'm on a multi O and they still made me do a report and pinned paper in my passport saying I have to report back to them on 30th Jan! 

[Fairynuff]

Well I suppose it keeps people in jobs, and holidaymakers not seeing the country but visiting lots of immigration offices. Oh to be in a grown up country!

[Ulic]

If the guests are staying for a normal vacation period and will not be extending their

stays, so having no need to stop at immigration, they have nothing to worry about.

They will hop back on the plane blissfully unaware of the bureaucratic cluster "F"

there were supposed to follow.   

[Jedsada3]

When my children come to visit, I fill in a TM30 Form that they live with me and then we travel all over Thailand sleeping at friends’ house or in resorts. Never had problems even when they went to Immigration for a visa extension of stay...

[sendintheclowns]

I'm sure the OP is just to highlight the stupidity of the rules. does anyone know if departing visitors/family have been asked by Immigration to show evidence of where they have stayed? If not, generally, the less paperwork you file, the better. Inertia rules, here in Thailand.

[maxisrael]

Don't forget a photocopy of each passport witch is now required in Chiang Mai.......

[BigT73]

1 hour ago, Kenegg said:

I knew nothing about a T28 until my wife went to immigration to fill in T30 they told me I could have and should have done it online within 24 hours and only needs doing one time. A little tea money solved the problem :-) The immigration I use is new so I think still feeling their way, I'm on a multi O and they still made me do a report and pinned paper in my passport saying I have to report back to them on 30th Jan! 

 

 I went to immigration 24hrs after flying in on my METV visa with my GF who owns the condo.  We tried to register for lodging online but was refused as only the condo management could do this,  I am not sure if the rules would be different if you owned a house.  Immigration also stated if we holiday inside thailand and stay at hotel we need to do the TM30 all over again when we return and have up to a week to do this.  What a pain!

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, 6thST said:

Unbelievable 

Is there really anything unbelievable in Thailand?

[Happy Days xx]

I'm also worried now... last week I had 2 aliens stay with me.  

 

I think they were aliens as the developed 2 heads after we drank copious amounts of Thai whisky and Singha beer.

 

They have left my house now and I don't think they passed through immigration when they left Thailand as their spaceship was hidden behind a big 'bush' belonging to a massage girl.

 

I think they were from Mars.

 

I worried if I tell immigration they will not take me seriously?

 

... so I think better I drink another bottle of Thai whisky and try and forget about everything!

 

Thanking you all for letting me share my plight with you.

 

Yuletide felicitations x 

[KIWILEE]

Last week I went into Chiang Mai Imm. to do my 90 day report and apply for another extension to my Marriage Visa. We were asked for the first time where our TM 30 was and in the last 4 years we had never heard of it. I pointed out that on both my 90 day report and Visa extension application I supply my name and address at our house here in Phrao and that I have never missed a 90 day report in that time so they know where I live. Also, as I recall it, my arrival card gives my address. However after a 1600Bhat fine we filled out the required TM30 and all the paperwork is now under way. They now have 4 different references to my address which must keep many people occupied. One point though that came out of all of this is that the TM 30 is only required each time we enter the country, not each time we return home after a few days away. All the same, from now on my wife will register us at hotels etc and we will keep my name out of it.

[neeray]

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

I wouldn't bother at all.

Ignorance is definitely bliss. 

In the last two years, I have travelled all over Thailand with my gf, staying at one family member's home or another. In 4 trips totalling 12 weeks, we never filled in a form once. Didn't even know we had to. 

And don't know that I would change anything now that I do know. 

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, neeray said:

Ignorance is definitely bliss. 

In the last two years, I have travelled all over Thailand with my gf, staying at one family member's home or another. In 4 trips totalling 12 weeks, we never filled in a form once. Didn't even know we had to. 

And don't know that I would change anything now that I do know. 

 

Yes, that is the case for most people, it only has an impact if you need to visit immigration, resident certificate, extension, 90 day etc. Then it becomes obvious to them that you are residing in an area and have not reported.

[YAHF]

A friend of mine mentioned over a month ago that a friend of his came & stayed in Bangkok then went on to Chang Mai for a couple of weeks, whilst there he was stopped by police & asked where he was staying & he told them Chang Mai, the police did a check & said he was registered as Bangkok & fined him on the spot 4000 TB, this gave me the opportunity to think about my situation which is as follows.

Ten days before I left last May I moved apartments with my Thai lady who had stayed with me for the whole six months I was here, a month later I came back for 60 days & stayed at same address & declared as such on the immigration form on the airplane, but three weeks before I left ( after a disagreement with her indoors ) I moved in with a friend using his spare bedroom until I left, now I’m back for 180 days & declared on plane as staying with my friend, but after a few days I moved back in with her indoors & stayed here full time again which is when my friend relayed about his friend.

So I asked the lady downstairs who is in charge of this place about filling in some sort of form for the authorities to which she replied she will ask her boss, a few days later I was told she had the forms to fill in so I left her with my passport copy, after a couple of days she told me that they had no idea how to fill in the form, no problem I will go to immigration on Jomtien I told her which I did next day.

Asking at the desk I told the young lady that I would like to register a change of address to which she gave me a form to fill in indicating to go next door & copy the info from previous people, I returned said paper & she then directed me upstairs to immigration housing, another young lady asked can I help you so I told her the same thing handing her the completed form, the first thing she gave me see attached Notification of Residence followed by a list of things to copy, she immediately told me its a 5000 TB fine + 200 TB / day for NOT informing them within 24 hours.

Whoooo there I said I haven’t moved yet, I’m just trying to be all legal here & don’t know how to go about it, she told me that most Thai’s have no idea about informing immigration about ALIENS staying in their property, OK I said I’ll go away & get the required copies of paperwork. Oh by the way I asked, do I have to inform you if I pay a visit to my ladies family home in Kalasin for 7 or 10 days, NO she said as you will still be Thailand, I came away even more confused.

 

Dilemma 1,

My ladies apartment is in her name so she is supposed to inform immigration but she cannot read or write & I cannot produce items 5 & 6 in my name.

Dilemma 2,

My friends apartment is in his name so I cannot produce items 5 & 6 although the reception asked me to sign a form when I first stayed there.

 

So it seems I’m in very deep doo doo & maybe when I do my next visa run I can register this address & hope I get away with it, my long term friends had never heard of all this & as one guy said to me Oh sh1t I’ve been here 5 years & never changed a thing as I always let my girlfriend rent places & just stay with her so reckoning that up it comes to around 370,000 TB

P.S.

I did call my local Thai embassy to ask them about all this & she replied we have never heard of all this so I Emailed them the attached so as to inform others of the potential to do wrong without even knowing it, (how do backpackers manage)

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

32 minutes ago, KIWILEE said:

Last week I went into Chiang Mai Imm. to do my 90 day report and apply for another extension to my Marriage Visa. We were asked for the first time where our TM 30 was and in the last 4 years we had never heard of it. I pointed out that on both my 90 day report and Visa extension application I supply my name and address at our house here in Phrao and that I have never missed a 90 day report in that time so they know where I live. Also, as I recall it, my arrival card gives my address. However after a 1600Bhat fine we filled out the required TM30 and all the paperwork is now under way. They now have 4 different references to my address which must keep many people occupied. One point though that came out of all of this is that the TM 30 is only required each time we enter the country, not each time we return home after a few days away. All the same, from now on my wife will register us at hotels etc and we will keep my name out of it.

 

You could look at it as the arrival card is were you intend to stay, the TM30/28 is verification that you are at a certain address, 90 day is reporting you are still at the address.  very frustrating. 

[TSF]

Perhaps I should point out that my OP is purely a hypothetical case. My brother and his family are not visiting us. I was merely trying to construct an example which would demonstrate how ridiculous all this alien reporting is. Apart from putting this post here on TV I also put it up on another expat forum, and it does seem there are people around who have been fined for not making these TM28 & TM30 reports. Plus different immigration offices have given different information to various people. Some have been told you have 24 hours to notify by TM30 an alien staying at your house; others have been told if it's under 30 days then not necessary to do a TM30. 

 

Of course the scenario I outline above is ridiculous and nobody in their right mind would travel around the country stopping with friends for 1 or 2 nights and make out new TM28 & 30 reports every day. But it does seem that according to some immigration offices it is the law to do so.

[ianf]

Come to think of it: If every 'alien' here followed the procedure exactly as required by law then the whole system would totally break down as Immigration would be overwhelmed. Shall we create a fun scenario?

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, YAHF said:

A friend of mine mentioned over a month ago that a friend of his came & stayed in Bangkok then went on to Chang Mai for a couple of weeks, whilst there he was stopped by police & asked where he was staying & he told them Chang Mai, the police did a check & said he was registered as Bangkok & fined him on the spot 4000 TB, this gave me the opportunity to think about my situation which is as follows.

Ten days before I left last May I moved apartments with my Thai lady who had stayed with me for the whole six months I was here, a month later I came back for 60 days & stayed at same address & declared as such on the immigration form on the airplane, but three weeks before I left ( after a disagreement with her indoors ) I moved in with a friend using his spare bedroom until I left, now I’m back for 180 days & declared on plane as staying with my friend, but after a few days I moved back in with her indoors & stayed here full time again which is when my friend relayed about his friend.

So I asked the lady downstairs who is in charge of this place about filling in some sort of form for the authorities to which she replied she will ask her boss, a few days later I was told she had the forms to fill in so I left her with my passport copy, after a couple of days she told me that they had no idea how to fill in the form, no problem I will go to immigration on Jomtien I told her which I did next day.

Asking at the desk I told the young lady that I would like to register a change of address to which she gave me a form to fill in indicating to go next door & copy the info from previous people, I returned said paper & she then directed me upstairs to immigration housing, another young lady asked can I help you so I told her the same thing handing her the completed form, the first thing she gave me see attached Notification of Residence followed by a list of things to copy, she immediately told me its a 5000 TB fine + 200 TB / day for NOT informing them within 24 hours.

Whoooo there I said I haven’t moved yet, I’m just trying to be all legal here & don’t know how to go about it, she told me that most Thai’s have no idea about informing immigration about ALIENS staying in their property, OK I said I’ll go away & get the required copies of paperwork. Oh by the way I asked, do I have to inform you if I pay a visit to my ladies family home in Kalasin for 7 or 10 days, NO she said as you will still be Thailand, I came away even more confused.

 

Dilemma 1,

My ladies apartment is in her name so she is supposed to inform immigration but she cannot read or write & I cannot produce items 5 & 6 in my name.

Dilemma 2,

My friends apartment is in his name so I cannot produce items 5 & 6 although the reception asked me to sign a form when I first stayed there.

 

So it seems I’m in very deep doo doo & maybe when I do my next visa run I can register this address & hope I get away with it, my long term friends had never heard of all this & as one guy said to me Oh sh1t I’ve been here 5 years & never changed a thing as I always let my girlfriend rent places & just stay with her so reckoning that up it comes to around 370,000 TB

P.S.

I did call my local Thai embassy to ask them about all this & she replied we have never heard of all this so I Emailed them the attached so as to inform others of the potential to do wrong without even knowing it, (how do backpackers manage)

 

 

 

 

 

I think you will find that its 5 or 6, not many people would have both. In your case, your GF and your friend would both have blue books.

[Deepinthailand]

Well I can safely say we have a good few so called Alien (I prefer to call them guests)visitors to our humble abode and never once have I  we reported this to immigration and I can safely say we never will. Don't get all the posts on this subject. If one use ones common sense and just enjoys your time with friends or family and stops worrying about every little thing. No one will ever know they were there.

[maewang99]

if they can track foreigners using their cellphone location... and have a computer match that info with that days immigration database....

I know that's a really really big 'if'.....

but if...

they will be able to pay for all the choo choo tarins they want without any need for Chinese or Japanese loans... hmm..... 

[geisha]

Hi all, so when I arrive in Thailand tomorrow at a new condo rental ( first time stay) for 2 and a half months , the office has to do a TM30 , and I have to go to Jomtien immigration also within 24 hours ? I will be doing a 30 day extension in two months there. Will the office give me the necessary papers concerning this? I don't fancy paying 5000 baht as states in the above post for an error. Thanks.