Can I stay in this house after ...

[Aforek]

Hi, sorry to write here, I know there was a law forum here , but I don't find it anymore ( BTW, where is it ?)

 

I have built a house for my GF , and I live there with her daughter and family around;

I have a question; normally, If ( I say "if ", we don't know the future ), my GF dies before me, the house belongs to her daughter;  is there a law who allows me to stay in the house ( suppose the daughter wants that I leave , what can I do ? )

can we, I and my GF sign a document, with a lawyer , to say that I can stay as long as I want ( death ) ?

Thanks

[stevenl]

Get either a lease, or probably better a usufruct.

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[steve187]

I would worry about her getting tired of you,  more than if she dies before you.

 

[Olik]

Hehehe. A kind of Prenuptial agreement?

[zeichen]

" I have built a house for my GF "

 

You have no legal recourse whatsoever. You gave your girl friend a gift.  If you were married and bought the house while married, you are entitled to half of all assets in divorce, however you are not married.  If your girlfriend breaks up with you, you lose everything and have no claims to anything. 

 

If you try to get a legal agreement now, it might show her you don't trust her and she will just break up with you and call police to say you are trespassing.

 

My advice is to be a very devoted boy friend and never do anything to upset her. 

 

Good luck. Hopefully you will not learn the hardway not to build a house for a girlfriend.

 

 

[cornishcarlos]

If the house is built on her land, as in registered in her name, you could get a Usufruct put on the title deed. This would allow you to legally stay until the end of your Usufruct. Normally it is until you die, which could be arranged if the family wants the land !!

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, Aforek said:

I know there was a law forum here , but I don't find it anymore ( BTW, where is it ?)

 

Google 

http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php

[blackcab]

12 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

If the house is built on her land, as in registered in her name, you could get a Usufruct put on the title deed. This would allow you to legally stay until the end of your Usufruct. Normally it is until you die, which could be arranged if the family wants the land !!

 

With her permission. If she will not give permission then you know where you stand.

[AlQaholic]

Many years ago while stopping at a PTT station near Chachoengsao for a fill-up I met a Drunk German chap sitting in the Jiffy, apparently been sitting there and drinking for quiet some time judging from the staff general demeanor towards him. Anyway after some chatting (he was extremely happy to see a westerner) he told me his story:

He had met a girl in some bar, quickly disposed of all his estates and belongings in Germany came to Thailand and married this Girl, built a big house in the outskirts of Chachoengsao and moved in. Only problem was that all her family apparently moved in as well, and this apparently included her "brother", uncles, parents, grandparents and everything in between......to the point he was not welcome in the house anymore, and his wife actually told him so bluntly. That was all I had time to hear, I wished him good luck without giving any advice, just my sympathy and bid him farewell....

 

I have always wondered what became of him......

Edited December 26, 2016 by AlQaholic

[louse1953]

20 hours ago, zeichen said:

" I have built a house for my GF "

 

You have no legal recourse whatsoever. You gave your girl friend a gift.  If you were married and bought the house while married, you are entitled to half of all assets in divorce, however you are not married.  If your girlfriend breaks up with you, you lose everything and have no claims to anything. 

 

If you try to get a legal agreement now, it might show her you don't trust her and she will just break up with you and call police to say you are trespassing.

 

My advice is to be a very devoted boy friend and never do anything to upset her. 

 

Good luck. Hopefully you will not learn the hardway not to build a house for a girlfriend.

 

 

Bad advice indeed.Tell the truth that you are worried about the daughter.Get a usufruct.I did,no probs.

[Henryford]

I think these legal documents are pretty useless. If a thai owns the house/land and doesn't want you there they will make life so unpleasant you have to move out. Fancy fighting with the "brother" every day.

[whatproblem]

Worry more about gf parents ,get a usafruct ,even if they make life hard for you they cannot enter the land without your permission

[cracker1]

Get a lease for the house from the land owner and make sure it is registered on the Chanote. Ensure that the lease says something like "This lease has been prepaid for the period of 30 years until  (date) and no further payments are due until any renewal "

[SureeratTang]

On 12/25/2016 at 10:51 AM, zeichen said:

" I have built a house for my GF "

 

You have no legal recourse whatsoever. You gave your girl friend a gift.  If you were married and bought the house while married, you are entitled to half of all assets in divorce, however you are not married.  If your girlfriend breaks up with you, you lose everything and have no claims to anything. 

 

If you try to get a legal agreement now, it might show her you don't trust her and she will just break up with you and call police to say you are trespassing.

 

My advice is to be a very devoted boy friend and never do anything to upset her. 

 

Good luck. Hopefully you will not learn the hardway not to build a house for a girlfriend.

 

 

Do not mislead others. In Thailand when you purchase landed property,  all the ownership belongs to  your Thai spouse. This was enforced during when she sign and took over the deeds at the land office. The office also  required  your acknowledgment by signing on the paper as a foreign spouse. Unless you brought Condo under your name that is your property.

[smotherb]

Let this be a lesson to anyone thinking of buying property for a Thai. You have very little recourse.

[bluebluewater]

Somehow I would be willing to bet a good chunk of change that the OP would not WANT to live there after the passing of the GF ( or any other event that split you up ) even if he had papers that allowed him to do so.   Her family would make you miserable until you moved out.

 

Good luck with all of it.

[Aforek]

2 hours ago, cracker1 said:

Get a lease for the house from the land owner and make sure it is registered on the Chanote. Ensure that the lease says something like "This lease has been prepaid for the period of 30 years until  (date) and no further payments are due until any renewal "

Good solution, 30 years good, I am already 66, the land owner is my GF's mother, who gave land for her five children , and the house is in my GF's name

how can I do it ?

I have read your different opinions, I know some of them already and so far I feel this is a good family but we don't know the future

 

[blackcab]

4 hours ago, SureeratTang said:

Do not mislead others. In Thailand when you purchase landed property,  all the ownership belongs to  your Thai spouse. This was enforced during when she sign and took over the deeds at the land office. The office also  required  your acknowledgment by signing on the paper as a foreign spouse. Unless you brought Condo under your name that is your property.

 

Sorry, you are incorrect. The divorce Court is not part of the Land Office and the Court will completely disregard the piece of paper you mention.

 

This is because a contract or an acknowledgement can not supercede statutory law.

 

The Court can and will award half of landed assets to the foreign partner. Actually getting your hands on the money is a separate issue however. 

[Odin Norway]

4 hours ago, SureeratTang said:

Do not mislead others. In Thailand when you purchase landed property,  all the ownership belongs to  your Thai spouse. This was enforced during when she sign and took over the deeds at the land office. The office also  required  your acknowledgment by signing on the paper as a foreign spouse. Unless you brought Condo under your name that is your property.

What is most missleading here is when some people mix together girlfriend and spouse.That is totally different when it comes to lease or usufruct on a chanut deed.If you are leagaly married you can not do the usefruct if the land is in youre wifes name.That is for unmarried only.If you are smart.Do it with somebody outside the family.I know that is not common but it can be done.Then you will have no problem with her family if she gets tired of you.If the family has any rights to the land they wil most likely push you out.Papers or not.

[khunPer]

You can make a Habitation (the right to dwell in a house), or Superficies (probably the best, but I'm not sure if that can be made when a house is already build), or Usufruct; as long as you are not married, that may work, as contracts between married couples can be declared void.

One of the best sites with information about these, are Samui for Sale.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, Odin Norway said:

What is most missleading here is when some people mix together girlfriend and spouse.That is totally different when it comes to lease or usufruct on a chanut deed.If you are leagaly married you can not do the usefruct if the land is in youre wifes name.That is for unmarried only.If you are smart.Do it with somebody outside the family.I know that is not common but it can be done.Then you will have no problem with her family if she gets tired of you.If the family has any rights to the land they wil most likely push you out.Papers or not.

 

A wife can grant her husband a usufruct. The problem is that the Court can cancel the usufruct in case of divorce.

 

There is a debate about whether a spouse can cancel a usufruct either during marriage or within 1 year after divorce.

 

In reality it depends on the land office. You are correct in pointing out that a usufruct is not something that is completely safe if the Usufructor and the Usufructee are married.

[Odin Norway]

36 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

A wife can grant her husband a usufruct. The problem is that the Court can cancel the usufruct in case of divorce.

 

There is a debate about whether a spouse can cancel a usufruct either during marriage or within 1 year after divorce.

 

In reality it depends on the land office. You are correct in pointing out that a usufruct is not something that is completely safe if the Usufructor and the Usufructee are married.

Okey.Maybe its up to the land/office then.What I was told is that mine would not be worth anything if I got married.A good reason not get married also.In my case its for life.Just a few kilometer away its only for 30 years so its no strait rules.I was tempted to write here that if you are finnished building youre house you could get married afterwords.SInce the wife is only intitled to whatever you have buildt up inside the marrige.What you have already, is yours to keep.

[Odin Norway]

To answer the OP.Not everything else.

You are most likely on youre ass on the street if youre GF dies.Without knowing what kind of realasions you have with here doughter or the rest of the family I do say it like that.In my case I think I would stil be okey if my GF died.They all know what I can do if they fall out with me.Now we also have a 1yr old so now Im for sure safe in my house.ANyways I do have all the papers in my name already,to be on the safe side.

If the land  is already in the doughters name she must be at least 16 years already.I just guess here.At least thats the age to own  land where I live.If that is true you can do a lease with the doughter and if you feel like it ,marry the mom afterwords.SO for you it should be a good thing that its not in youre GFs name.As a father I would never let my doughter sign a paper like this.Not for 30 years or life in some areas ,but you never know how they think.

 

Good luck.

[blackcab]

37 minutes ago, Odin Norway said:

To answer the OP.Not everything else.

You are most likely on youre ass on the street if youre GF dies.Without knowing what kind of realasions you have with here doughter or the rest of the family I do say it like that.In my case I think I would stil be okey if my GF died.They all know what I can do if they fall out with me.Now we also have a 1yr old so now Im for sure safe in my house.ANyways I do have all the papers in my name already,to be on the safe side.

If the land  is already in the doughters name she must be at least 16 years already.I just guess here.At least thats the age to own  land where I live.If that is true you can do a lease with the doughter and if you feel like it ,marry the mom afterwords.SO for you it should be a good thing that its not in youre GFs name.As a father I would never let my doughter sign a paper like this.Not for 30 years or life in some areas ,but you never know how they think.

 

Good luck.

 

Again, it varies by land office. Some will allow a child of any age to own land. 

 

A child cannot sign a lease, a usufruct or any other type of contract as they are considered a minor. That is the same in many countries.

 

If land is in the name of a child, the only person who can register a lease longer than 3 years or any other encumbrance against the property is the Court. This is highly unlikely to happen in residential accommodation, but is much more likely with a commercial lease.

[Gracas]

8 hours ago, Aforek said:

Good solution, 30 years good, I am already 66, the land owner is my GF's mother, who gave land for her five children , and the house is in my GF's name

how can I do it ?

I have read your different opinions, I know some of them already and so far I feel this is a good family but we don't know the future

 

If your GF's Mother and Daughter are indeed good people as you state, then there should be no problem in remaining in the house. I would think that they would want you to stay even if just to continue paying the monthly expenses. (this is how it worked out with a friend of mine).

Does your GF have a Will ? Who has she left the house to ? Does she request that you be allowed to stay ?

I really see no point in having Lease or any other arrangement, if the family want you out then they will just make life hell for you on a daily basis. Why live in a place where you are not wanted. The stress will only shorten your life.

But if as you say they are good people then no problems.

[Odin Norway]

2 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

Again, it varies by land office. Some will allow a child of any age to own land. 

 

A child cannot sign a lease, a usufruct or any other type of contract as they are considered a minor. That is the same in many countries.

 

If land is in the name of a child, the only person who can register a lease longer than 3 years or any other encumbrance against the property is the Court. This is highly unlikely to happen in residential accommodation, but is much more likely with a commercial lease.

Okey.Thanks for that information.Maybe a question is worth asking at my own land-office then.

[khunPer]

17 hours ago, Odin Norway said:

To answer the OP.Not everything else.

You are most likely on youre ass on the street if youre GF dies.Without knowing what kind of realasions you have with here doughter or the rest of the family I do say it like that.In my case I think I would stil be okey if my GF died.They all know what I can do if they fall out with me.Now we also have a 1yr old so now Im for sure safe in my house.ANyways I do have all the papers in my name already,to be on the safe side.

If the land  is already in the doughters name she must be at least 16 years already.I just guess here.At least thats the age to own  land where I live.If that is true you can do a lease with the doughter and if you feel like it ,marry the mom afterwords.SO for you it should be a good thing that its not in youre GFs name.As a father I would never let my doughter sign a paper like this.Not for 30 years or life in some areas ,but you never know how they think.

 

Good luck.

16 years old, »At least thats the age to own  land where I live...« – presume you talk about Norway, but this is Thailand; and Thailand is not Norway, or any other foreign country...

 

In Thailand a minor can own land (and stocks and other property), but under a guardian until the minor is 20 years old, which mean that nothing can be done with that land against the interest of the minor – here-under sale; long-term lease; mortgage; usufruct; and superficies – and that's more-or-less up the Land Office only to decide. Any servitudes shall be made and declared at a Land Office before land is moved to a minor's name.

[SureeratTang]

On 12/26/2016 at 5:39 PM, blackcab said:

 

Sorry, you are incorrect. The divorce Court is not part of the Land Office and the Court will completely disregard the piece of paper you mention.

 

This is because a contract or an acknowledgement can not supercede statutory law.

 

The Court can and will award half of landed assets to the foreign partner. Actually getting your hands on the money is a separate issue however. 

Oh, that is something new or hidden. Friends of mine get nothing. The Court told him, it was explained to you during the Land Office,  you don't inderstand the translation or something else. As explain they will protect their own people, as in Thailand PR or others are consider Alien.

[blackcab]

33 minutes ago, SureeratTang said:

Oh, that is something new or hidden. Friends of mine get nothing. The Court told him, it was explained to you during the Land Office,  you don't inderstand the translation or something else. As explain they will protect their own people, as in Thailand PR or others are consider Alien.

 

It's not new or hidden. Perhaps your friends simply had shockingly bad representation.

 

That said, Courts do err in law. That is what the Appellate Court is for.

 

To say the law is different for foreigners and Thais is wrong. It's more a case of the uneducated not pursuing their rights and accepting what they are told, regardless of their nationality.

[petermik]

Never spend any more money here that you cannot afford to walk away from is the best advice I can give

Everything in Thailand belongs to a Thai,we are just visitors/guests here

Edited December 27, 2016 by petermik