Trump chickens out again.

[Gary A]

On 1/1/2017 at 9:07 AM, boomerangutang said:

Another life wasted for no good reason.

 

I met a Palestinian teenage woman when I worked at a summer camp, many years ago.  She was one of the most decent people I've ever met.  She said she wanted to become a lawyer.  

 A life wasted by whom? If you were at that gate I suppose you would have tried to talk her out of using the knife? After she was shot, you would have rushed up to help her not knowing if she was wearing a bomb?

[johna]

5 hours ago, Morch said:

 

In other words, you provided a link that does not support your post, and then can't be bothered to back it up.

I provided  link to a story that shows Israeli's lie about these killings. I know you don't want to Google it as you would then have to admit you are wrong. I can't be bothered to provide evidence to a dyed in the wool Israeli apologist.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, johna said:

I provided  link to a story that shows Israeli's lie about these killings. I know you don't want to Google it as you would then have to admit you are wrong. I can't be bothered to provide evidence to a dyed in the wool Israeli apologist.

 

No. You claimed that "the Israelis have been caught lying about these incidents numerous times.". The link you provided does not support this. It does not detail "numerous cases", and it mostly deals with allegations, not out right proof. If you cannot grasp the difference, that's quite alright, facts doesn't seem to matter much for some posters.

 

Should have gone for a weaker, but easier to substantiate claim. Rather you chose hyperbole and failed.

[johna]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

No. You claimed that "the Israelis have been caught lying about these incidents numerous times.". The link you provided does not support this. It does not detail "numerous cases", and it mostly deals with allegations, not out right proof. If you cannot grasp the difference, that's quite alright, facts doesn't seem to matter much for some posters.

 

Should have gone for a weaker, but easier to substantiate claim. Rather you chose hyperbole and failed.

The link was chosen as an example of Israeli lying, which you choose to ignore. Attacking the messenger rather than the message is what Israeli apologists such as yourself are well known for.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, johna said:

The link was chosen as an example of Israeli lying, which you choose to ignore. Attacking the messenger rather than the message is what Israeli apologists such as yourself are well known for.

 

I did not ignore it, but said it was an exaggeration (with reference to your "numerous times" claim). It is a fact that the link you provided does not support that. Try the victim card on someone else, not impressed with your deflections. 

[johna]

13 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I did not ignore it, but said it was an exaggeration (with reference to your "numerous times" claim). It is a fact that the link you provided does not support that. Try the victim card on someone else, not impressed with your deflections. 

None of which changes the fact that Israel has lied about these shooting's numerous times in the past, and based upon that, Israel's version of these shooting can not be trusted.  

 

Israeli ‘shoot-to-kill’ policy encouraged by senior officials – HRW

 

Looking forward to hearing your explanation of this Morch

 

 

[Morch]

6 hours ago, johna said:

None of which changes the fact that Israel has lied about these shooting's numerous times in the past, and based upon that, Israel's version of these shooting can not be trusted.  

 

Israeli ‘shoot-to-kill’ policy encouraged by senior officials – HRW

 

Looking forward to hearing your explanation of this Morch

 

 

 

The article you linked does not, in fact, detail "numerous times" where "Israel lied", but mostly references quotes by Israeli right wing politicians and religious figures. These comments are certainly deplorable, and accordingly were denounced on previous topics. I am not denying that there were such cases, but objecting to your exaggerations.

[johna]

44 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The article you linked does not, in fact, detail "numerous times" where "Israel lied", but mostly references quotes by Israeli right wing politicians and religious figures. These comments are certainly deplorable, and accordingly were denounced on previous topics. I am not denying that there were such cases, but objecting to your exaggerations.

The Comment " None of which changes the fact that Israel has lied about these shooting's numerous times in the past, and based upon that, Israel's version of these shooting can not be trusted. " is mine, as you well know. The link is in support of that comment, as you well know. Your niggling over small unimportant details in an attempt to play down the seriousness of the crimes IDF are committing with impunity.

As the link below makes abundantly clear.

 

In the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Israeli forces committed unlawful killings of Palestinian civilians,

 

 

 

[Morch]

26 minutes ago, johna said:

The Comment " None of which changes the fact that Israel has lied about these shooting's numerous times in the past, and based upon that, Israel's version of these shooting can not be trusted. " is mine, as you well know. The link is in support of that comment, as you well know. Your niggling over small unimportant details in an attempt to play down the seriousness of the crimes IDF are committing with impunity.

As the link below makes abundantly clear.

 

In the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Israeli forces committed unlawful killings of Palestinian civilians,

 

 

 

 

Whichever way you want to cut it, you made a strong claim, at it not supported by anything you presented. My objection is not "niggling over small unimportant details", but about facts vs. exaggerations. Admittedly, the distinction between the two eludes many of those taking part in these "discussions". The link you provided echo your views, but do not actually provide support for the claim made. The new link provided is no different. It mentions a handful cases allegedly fitting what you describe, and not the "numerous times" suggested.

 

Again, this is not presented as a defense of shooting all and sundry, or saying that there were obviously some dodgy claims made by Israel, or that there weren't situation which did not merit the reaction meted. It simply says keep it real - not all, and IMO, not even most of the cases answer your description.

[Scott]

An inflammatory, baiting post has been removed.   Please address other members in a civil manner. 

[johna]

On 1/2/2017 at 1:20 AM, Morch said:

 

Numerous times? No. Even the link provided does not support that.

Criticism can be raised without exaggerations.

 

 

Here is a good example of how things work in Israel.

An Israeli soldier who shot dead an immobilised Palestinian assailant as he lay on the ground has been convicted of manslaughter

 

Benjamin Netanyahu calls for the murderer to be pardoned, which is pretty much guaranteed.

Benjamin Netanyahu wants pardon for Israeli soldier convicted for shooting wounded Palestinian man dead

 

2016 was the deadliest year for Palestinian children.

Israeli soldiers employ a shoot-to-kill policy... the fact they can do so with impunity and no consequences builds the foundation for such shootings to take place

[Morch]

49 minutes ago, johna said:

Here is a good example of how things work in Israel.

 

 

An Israeli soldier who shot dead an immobilised Palestinian assailant as he lay on the ground has been convicted of manslaughter

 

 

Benjamin Netanyahu calls for the murderer to be pardoned, which is pretty much guaranteed.

 

Benjamin Netanyahu wants pardon for Israeli soldier convicted for shooting wounded Palestinian man dead

 

 

2016 was the deadliest year for Palestinian children.

 

Israeli soldiers employ a shoot-to-kill policy... the fact they can do so with impunity and no consequences builds the foundation for such shootings to take place

 

The first link would be for a conviction of a unlawful shooting, isn't this what you were after? As for a pardon, it is nowhere "pretty much guaranteed". And the last link, while regretful - is not quite what you went on about in your original claim.

[edwarda909]

On January 1, 2017 at 9:07 AM, boomerangutang said:

Another life wasted for no good reason.

 

I met a Palestinian teenage woman when I worked at a summer camp, many years ago.  She was one of the most decent people I've ever met.  She said she wanted to become a lawyer.  

so  what's your point?  Nobody is generalizing here, and neither should you. This woman had a knife and intended to kill people.

[SheungWan]

On 1/2/2017 at 5:58 AM, gadget monger said:

She was shot in the legs and she laid on the ground for over an hour as security checked her out for explosives before taking her for treatment.  

 

So ,er, how long in your expert opinion, should be taken checking out someone for explosives, considering they are still alive?

[johna]

On 1/5/2017 at 10:13 AM, Morch said:

 

The first link would be for a conviction of a unlawful shooting, isn't this what you were after? As for a pardon, it is nowhere "pretty much guaranteed". And the last link, while regretful - is not quite what you went on about in your original claim.

So the  shoot to kill policy is only regretful. Shooting Palestinians is just a minor unimportant detail....

[Morch]

3 hours ago, johna said:

So the  shoot to kill policy is only regretful. Shooting Palestinians is just a minor unimportant detail....

 

Can't make a proper argument so you twist my words? Rather pitiful, if expected.

There is not "shoot to kill" policy. The "regretful" was used as to differentiate between your original claim and what you posted later on - which are not quite the same. It was not meant in the sense which you try to paint it as. Low, but expected.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Morch

[Scott]

A post has been removed.   Stop bickering and stay on topic.  

 

[SheungWan]

On 1/1/2017 at 10:07 AM, boomerangutang said:

Another life wasted for no good reason.

 

I met a Palestinian teenage woman when I worked at a summer camp, many years ago.  She was one of the most decent people I've ever met.  She said she wanted to become a lawyer.  

 

So, when a Palestinian goes at you with a knife, be sure to discuss their career aspirations with them before deciding whether to defend yourself.