Being kicked out of condo for 1 hour late rent (over the contracted deadline)

[easybullet3]

(helping a good friend of mine)

 

Does anyone here know Thai Law ?   (I'm not really searching for assumptions that Thai Law is the same as UK or Australian Law).

if so, then:  What would you suggest in this situation..  (regarding Rental Agreement of a Condo/Residence).

 

Facts:

 

Rental Contract is on condo room in a Managed Residence on a per/monthly basis.

Contract states that more than 15 days 'late payment' terminates the contract and voids the deposit.

Office closes at 7pm

Condo owner sent an SMS to the tennant (on the 14th day) saying that rent needs to be paid by Noon the next day or her room will be locked.

Her money didnt arrive until after noon. 

there is no mention in the Contract that NOON is the deadline. (so i would assume that midnight on the 15th day would be the actual deadline??)

She went to the Office at 6pm and said she can pay by Bank Transfer, because her money will arrive at about 8pm. and a Bank Transfer would ensure she has paid WITHIN 15 days.

The said they dont accept Bank Transfer.

Office closed at 7pm.

Rent was paid at 8pm to the Sister of the Owner of the building. (the sister owns the restaurant within the condo) and she signed a receipt to show it had been received.

The sister of the owner send a message immediately to the owner and confirmed that the rent has been paid.

 

So: (in summary): The rent was paid to the owners sister who was on the premises 1 hour after the office had closed.

 

The Owner is now saying that since the Sister is not the official staff of the condo, she is not a representative of the business, so this does not count as receiving the rent.

and therefore it wont be officially "received" until the next day (which breaks the contract and terminates her rental and she needs to check out the NEXT DAY).

 

(PS: the 2 sisters see each other daily as she runs the restaurant within her sisters building)

 

I assume that its only reasonable that they let my friend stay in the condo until the END of her contracted Month. (2 more weeks).

but they are trying to force her out tomorrow.

 

I would appreciate any suggestions or helpful input ?

 

 

-----

My personal opinion:

i assumed that Locking of doors is not legal unless backed up with a court order and enforced by the Police (if necessary).

and since rent was actually paid to the sister of the owner and confirmed by a signed receipt, then the Tenant has not broken the contract really as the contract does not state a Deadline on the 15th day.

 

an SMS message from the owner on the day before is not part of the contract that was signed. 

 

My friend has been living there for 8 months and pays all her bills, and this is the first time it has been late.

BUT: there is a personality clash between her and the owner, (hence the owner looking for a chance to evict her).

i just think its unreasonable that she is being kicked out tomorrow when she has paid for another 2 weeks.

 

Tomorrow is the big day, so i would appreciate any input from you guys.

 

Thanks again :)

Edited January 25, 2017 by easybullet3

[Peterw42]

Even if your friend is legally in the right (doesn't appear to be), not much you can do except help her pack. Presuming you had until midnight to pay doesn't mean much as it would be close of business that day,  they are not going to keep the office open until midnight so your friend can pay, plus the sms sort of overrides that anyway. 12 noon would be checkout time, probably on a sign in the lobby/room and possibly in the contract.

Contract says 15 days to pay or loose deposit, sms advice on 14th day, I think the cleaning lady at the lawyers office could win the case. 

I think start looking for moving boxes. They will have the police around in a heartbeat and they will 110% side with the landlord. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Peterw42

[Crossy]

If I'm reading the OP correctly the rent was already two weeks late when the landlord texted.

 

Did she immediately call the landlord with the issue?

 

Actually she should have called one day after the rent was due (two weeks ago), most landlords are human beings and do understand, but leaving it to the last second is always unwise.

 

Unlike in the west, here the landlord is king and can pretty well do as he likes, locking the door is mild.

 

On another side of the coin, when we first arrived here we rented a condo, we'd been in about 6 months when the landlady turned up to check on her (she thought empty) place, oops. Of course Wifey had rigorously kept the official receipts for the deposit and rent payments and both went down to the office to sort out the problem. Result, management company removed and we then paid direct to the landlady. We stayed for 8 years in the end, landlady is still a friend of Wifey.

 

[12DrinkMore]

20 hours ago, easybullet3 said:

BUT: there is a personality clash between her and the owner, (hence the owner looking for a chance to evict her).

 

I think all landlords and tennants would have a personality clash if the rent was paid two weeks late.

 

Was this the first time, or was the tennant late every time?

[irwinfc]

late is late, i'm afraid. some people let it slide, while some stand by it. OP's friend would benefit a lot from saving money for rent instead of waiting for money to come at the final hour.

[RDavis]

Whether late or not late and whether the management company has the right or does not have the right to end the rental agreement, TIT and you have absolutely no chance of winning anything. Walk away and save the cost of legal fees.

 

Thanks Fisherman1

Edited January 26, 2017 by RDavis
Appropriate advice

[TheFishman1]

TIT NEXT

[tagalong]

They are just after the deposit.....They do it every where when they can...Thieves....   Been there done that, boring, boring.......

[Naroge]

A rental contract normally states to where the rent should be paid, and I get the impression from your mail that the rent should be paid to the condo’s management company. It’s therefore your friend’s obligation to get it there. And as the contract clearly states that bank transfer is not accepted, your friend has to pay by cash, and it is her obligation to know when the office is open and can receive the money.

The request by land lady to get payment by Noon, seems non enforceable to me so if she had been able to pay in afternoon she might have the law on her side. But unfortunately this did not happen.

Looks like your friend has no legal recourse at all, and as she is in clash with land lady, the land lady has no reason to be “flexible”.

[1FinickyOne]

I would love to hear the landlords side of the story... landlords do not go to extremes to get rid of good tenants... what exactly was the "personality" clash? She must have been pretty rude to get a landlord this angry that he will throw out a tenant at what sounds like so little provocation...

[mike324]

"Her money didn't arrive until after noon. there is no mention in the Contract that NOON is the deadline. (so i would assume that midnight on the 15th day would be the actual deadline??)"

 

Two weeks late for rent payment is already too late.  Midnight is not office hours, so cut off time is officially before office closes. So your friend is at fault here. Landlord told her before noon, which is already a good warning for her, I believe landlord probably told her multiple times before since rent is two weeks late!

 

1 hour late or not its just too bad, your friend gave two week of excuses, who knows if she will give more excuses. Land lord should give the rent back and keep the deposit.

 

Locking the door is common procedure for lower class / cheap condos as many tenants tend to pay late or fall behind on payment. You are lucky they didn't clear the room out and throw it on the streets which is what some condos do.

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by mike324

[natway09]

Personality clash which you knew about,,,,,, still paid 2 weeks late ?

Lamb to the slaughter, & should have known better.

You stated yourself, landlord just waiting to get her out  given the chance ,,,,, took it

[little mary sunshine]

Appears owner/management is correct by the " letter of

the law".  It is contractual....however, my personal experience 

has been if you have a tenant that is a problem, you use

what ever you can to get rid of them.

[boooker]

So as stated before..late is late ...15th mention even without mention the time is office hour.....you can fight it but it will be useless.Having friction with landlord is not good to be in..but does not have any relevance to the case.

2 weeks late payment with acceptance written and signed of landlord is ok without is hearsay......contractual she is in the wrong and it is up to the landlord how he would like to use it...either accept or terminate in this case last one.

My advise is ....stay calm get your deposit if any and get ready to move into a new condo.

Any part else is driving more friction and surely the landlord have the longer arm here.

[hansnl]

On the other hand the landlord is clearly stealing the deposit and half a month rent.

I think I would know an answer to that.

Whatever the reason, most condo owners or managers are dishonest stealing b**t**ds.

[amjamj]

 

What a drama !!!

 

 

[4MyEgo]

I would refer to the contract to find out in what way the landlord must make contact with the tenant, if the tenant falls behind in their rent, to provide notice by an SMS IMO is ridiculous, what if the tenant didn't get it. I would also be looking for some form of precedent, i.e. retaliatory action by a landlord, as I read your friend, the tenant did pay the rent late, although outside of office hours, the rent was paid, however it does sound to me that your friend has been late more than once, several times perhaps, and landlords do also have to make payments to lenders, councils, repairs etc etc, so being on time all the time would be the preferred.

 

In the early days of my career I used to manage 400 properties (not in Thailand), and if a tenant fell behind in their rent for more than 14 days, I could serve them an eviction notice, providing a further 14 days for them to leave, which would cover the 4 week bond, but not for damage if any.

 

The tenant had the right to apply to a tribunal for a hearing and then it would be up the presiding registrar if the tenant could remain, i.e. reach an agreement to pay the outstanding rent, people are only human and have ups and downs and will fall behind in paying rent, most times I would be on the ball and be chasing up the tenants, a hand full only that is, but most of the times they would ring me to give me the heads up and my rule was, as long as its in before months end, because when the owners/landlords statement goes out, they will see where you are at with your rent and that means grief for me, so if I get grief from the landlord, you get grief from me, i.e. you will be looking for alternative accommodation.

 

If your landlord has your friend in their sites, I would suggest finding alternative accommodation as soon as possible, because fighting it in Thailand might not be as strong as fighting it in a western country, which reminds me, I had a landlord who would come in to the office if the tenant was late with their rent, i.e. I had advised him the rent was 14 days behind and was the landlord ok with me issuing the tenant 14 days notice to leave, the landlord said, why wait 14 days, I said its the law, he left the office, 30 minutes later the tenant came into the office paid all the rent and said he was leaving now, suffice to say if the tenant went to the cops, the landlord would have been in the s--t, but sometimes people do take their matters into their own hands, like turning off the electricity by pulling out the circuit breakers, shutting off the water etc etc, it does speed up the process but wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

[phantomfiddler]

Had a tenant once for over 20 years, and never once had to ask for the rent ! Last day of the month he would appear and say "Here you go, Mo Ham Head, next month,s rent". Have another one who is ALWAYS late with the rent, and one time he was 6 weeks late, and had to go over with a policeman to get the rent out of him, but what he doesn,t realize is that the money I had to pay for the policeman,s assistance is coming out of his security deposit. A good tenant is worth their weight in gold !

[newnative]

Loved the headline 'kicked out for being an hour later with the rent'.  Well, no, it turns out the rent's actually half a month late--and probably not the first time.  As previous posters have said, most landlords will try to work with a tenant, given half a chance, because it's usually better to keep a tenant than having to try to find a new one; and every month a rental property sits vacant is a month of income lost forever.  But, sometimes a tenant can be so much trouble that a landlord decides, enough of this, I'd rather have the property empty than deal another minute with this tenant--and if the tenant gives them an opening to break the contract, the landlord might jump at it.  We are only hearing the side of the tenant but I suspect the landlord was probably at wit's end.  Most landlords are just hoping for a tenant that will try to respect the property, report any problems, and pay the rent on time--doesn't seem that much to ask.

[ThaiWai]

The one thing "Thai Time" does not apply to is rent.  GF pays rent on time every month for a year and a half of only 8000 baht a month for her business.  The owner supplies the rent and the electric bill the same day and demands it is paid immediately.  GF was home sick on rent/electric bill delivery day and owner said she would padlock it if rent not received that day.  Landlord also does not take transfers so GF had to drive down sick and pay up.  Knowing she was not well the day before rent day and would be out the following day, GF even offered to pay the landlord a day in advance, she refused.  Had to be on "rent day" not before, not after.  Whacko.

[sanukjim]

Being 15 days late with the payment sounds like she is a bum with barely enough finances to stay here.I am sure he is glad to get rid of her.

[steven100]

I gave up after  'helping a good friend of mine.'

[steven100]

2 hours ago, amjamj said:

 

What a drama !!!

 

 

We've read the book .....

now just wait for the movie to come out

[timewilltell]

Personally, I would go to the police station with the receipt and make a police report.  I would not leave the condo.  Of course the landlord will probably lock the door and if you break the lock it will be criminal damage but I would then present the owner with the police report and say YOU will file a criminal complaint against the owner as the rent was accepted by a member of her family on your friend's behalf.  Accept that she will have to leave and demand the deposit back over which there will be a huge argument and again get the police involved.  As much as you do not like the police neither will the landlord.  Accept that in the end you probably won;t win but the police will probably mediate somewhat.  Next time pay the rent on time.

Thais are opportunist thieves generally and landlords especially.  The whole place is a scam and if you realise that then you don't get too disappointed but at the same time don;t give the scumbags the opportunity either.

[Aussieroaming]

At the end of the day whether she is a bum tenant or he is a impatient landlord the lease agreement is the binding contract. Frankly if she was two weeks behind in rent without plausible cause i would have reefed her out too

[1sickpuppy]

1 hour ago, sanukjim said:

Being 15 days late with the payment sounds like she is a bum with barely enough finances to stay here.I am sure he is glad to get rid of her.

GET A LIFE

[elgordo38]

I guess its an age thingee. I always pay the rent on the due date or one day before. Same as electric, water, cable and internet. Its a trait you pick up over the years. Today there is so much IT crap and other new marvels to capture the young mind that the essentials in life sometimes just slip by. 

[1sickpuppy]

1 minute ago, elgordo38 said:

I guess its an age thingee. I always pay the rent on the due date or one day before. Same as electric, water, cable and internet. Its a trait you pick up over the years. Today there is so much IT crap and other new marvels to capture the young mind that the essentials in life sometimes just slip by. 

Nobody perfect, Cheers

[elgordo38]

1 minute ago, 1sickpuppy said:

Nobody perfect, Cheers

Thats true I guess I will have to settle for 99.9% pure gold.  Oh woe is me. 

[gemguy]

Well...first of all, the landlords can try to do anything they please ...and then you can fight with them...... as they think they are Lords that can do anything they want.

 

Meantime...find another place to stay and be happy you do not have to deal with such an insufferable  A-HOLE.

 

Also...when you do find another place ...seriously.... ask as many of the existing tenants as possible, exactly what the land lords and or apartment / condo management are like and how small minded they are or what kind of BS they pull on the tenants ...because it seems about 50% of the apartment and condos and places to rent are owned by small minded A-Holes and you will wish you never choose that place to stay in the first place.

When you move in you had better take detailed photos of every single little aspect of what is damaged or worn out or not working  AND make sure it is written in blood that you will get your deposit back in full as long as nothing is damaged AND they know how to discern the difference between normal use wear and tear and do not try to claim you owe them anything at all for normal wear and tear and clearly separate from something you damaged.

Who will pay for servicing the air conditioners when needed to be serviced and, if and when air conditioners break down... who will pay????...should NOT be You.

All Appliances that wear out and or break down and no fault of your own...who will pay???...should Not be You  

Many items to consider because all too may of the people renting and leasing are low life, shady characters that never had any intention of retuning your security deposit / damage deposit and consider that money to now be their money to use as they please and they will try  and try as much as possible to keep your money....as if they are entitled to it.

 

I have been very lucky .......no problems ...knock on wood...

Meantime  A-Hole land lords screwing over their tenants is widespread  while all too many people commonly have to fight like hell to get their money back or have the owners of the apartments and condos pay to fix or replace their property...not yours.

 

Cheers