Court confirms armed ‘men in black’ fought in 2010 riots

[Baerboxer]

25 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I was in several of the PDRC protest sites.  Mostly consisted of old people. LOL  Never saw a weapon, never saw a violent act.  Other than jerks who lobbed hand grenades and shot missiles at the innocent protesters.  Several of those caught doing these acts were red shirt members.

 

P.S. I'm 100% against any sort of protests like these that paralyze an entire city.  Just should not be allowed.

 

Indeed Craig. Interesting that CAPO, which was a very expensive entity, and the police never managed to catch and successfully prosecute any of the attackers. Remember when some fell into their hands, like the 4 guys with guns and grenades that were apparently self defense use only so ok; or the lady getaway driver who crashed and that case simply vanished; or the off duty policeman caught firing at protesters on the back of a motor bike but again never prosecuted?

 

Daily and nightly attacks on protesters. Little being done to prevent or catch those responsible. And Yingluck tells them they should go home as it's not safe. While Chalerm vows any pro Shin demonstrators will be protected.

 

But none of that suits Smutcake's agenda - which is simply pro Shin.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I had problems getting it to open also.  Had to try 2 different browsers!

 

I had to try 3 times but it did work for me.

 

A quote from the first two paragraphs of the report.

 

"

There will be blood on the street if the government does not call off the dispersal operations. Our patience is running out. We will take more serious measures to retaliate. The dark sky will turn red, red like blood.

—Jatuporn Prompan, Red Shirt leader, Bangkok, April 10, 2010

It is hard for the army to give explanations about every single dead body in Bangkok.

—Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd, Center for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) spokesman, Bangkok, June 7, 2010"

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Indeed Craig. Interesting that CAPO, which was a very expensive entity, and the police never managed to catch and successfully prosecute any of the attackers. Remember when some fell into their hands, like the 4 guys with guns and grenades that were apparently self defense use only so ok; or the lady getaway driver who crashed and that case simply vanished; or the off duty policeman caught firing at protesters on the back of a motor bike but again never prosecuted?

 

Daily and nightly attacks on protesters. Little being done to prevent or catch those responsible. And Yingluck tells them they should go home as it's not safe. While Chalerm vows any pro Shin demonstrators will be protected.

 

But none of that suits Smutcake's agenda - which is simply pro Shin.

Yes and now with the black shirts to be proven red shirts.. its so clear that the red shirts are the armed wing of the PTP.  A blind man could see that, proof is building up that this is the case. 

 

I wonder if a democratic government is democratic at all if they have such an armed wing. But no people still consider the PTP and YL government democratic.. only because they got voted in.. like that is all important.. instead of how they act. 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

Funny how the army did not take a similar stance in the PDRC protests, of course the courts helpfully found that they blocking the capitals main through fares was legal!!! Simply amazing.

 

The question is why the police never did their job. In 2010 they simply vanished off the scene and allowed the red and black shirts to do as they pleased. Is it not their job to enforce the law?

[smutcakes]

 

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Indeed Craig. Interesting that CAPO, which was a very expensive entity, and the police never managed to catch and successfully prosecute any of the attackers. Remember when some fell into their hands, like the 4 guys with guns and grenades that were apparently self defense use only so ok; or the lady getaway driver who crashed and that case simply vanished; or the off duty policeman caught firing at protesters on the back of a motor bike but again never prosecuted?

 

Daily and nightly attacks on protesters. Little being done to prevent or catch those responsible. And Yingluck tells them they should go home as it's not safe. While Chalerm vows any pro Shin demonstrators will be protected.

 

But none of that suits Smutcake's agenda - which is simply pro Shin.

You have an amazing ability to recall events and pass them off as fact, when in reality you have no idea of what you are saying is true or not....

"little being done to prevent or catch"- You have zero idea what steps were being taken.

"While Charm vows any pro Shin Demonstrators will be protected"- Did he really say this? Or are you twisting words and meanings?

"or the lady getaway driver who crashed and that case simply vanished" Did it really vanish? do you know what happened? or are you just making this up?

"off duty policeman caught firing...." Was he never prosecuted? Do you know the background to the case? Perhaps you can provide a run down of what happened?

 

etc etc

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, smutcakes said:

I don't think people ever said they did not exist. I believe people questioned the veracity of how many there were, who they were, who organised them and the skills they had. None of which has been answered. 

 

 

 

So who do you think recruited them and financed them?

 

Who do you think appointed the never elected red shirt leaders? 

 

Who do you think made Jatuporn go back on the deal he did which would have prevented most if not all the deaths?

 

Any clue?

[smutcakes]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The question is why the police never did their job. In 2010 they simply vanished off the scene and allowed the red and black shirts to do as they pleased. Is it not their job to enforce the law?

Probably similar reason why they did not do their job in 2006 & 2014, because they are useless and incompetent and don't want confrontation.

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

You have an amazing ability to recall events and pass them off as fact, when in reality you have no idea of what you are saying is true or not....

"little being done to prevent or catch"- You have zero idea what steps were being taken.

"While Charm vows any pro Shin Demonstrators will be protected"- Did he really say this? Or are you twisting words and meanings?

"or the lady getaway driver who crashed and that case simply vanished" Did it really vanish? do you know what happened? or are you just making this up?

"off duty policeman caught firing...." Was he never prosecuted? Do you know the background to the case? Perhaps you can provide a run down of what happened?

 

etc etc

Your quite good at asking others for proof but severely lacking when i did the same... 

 

I asked twice.. once about a wikeleaks links you recall.. and other about doctored photo you recall..

 

But you like to discredit others.. but are guilty of the same things.

Edited February 5, 2017 by robblok

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So who do you think recruited them and financed them?

 

Who do you think appointed the never elected red shirt leaders? 

 

Who do you think made Jatuporn go back on the deal he did which would have prevented most if not all the deaths?

 

Any clue?

I don't know, i am not an investigator- i would of thought given the power the army have over everything, if there was anyway they could link it to Thaksin they would of done so a long time ago. I expect they have left no stone unturned in trying to find that smoking gun...

 

'Who do you think made Jatuporn go back on the deal he did which would have prevented most if not all the deaths?"- Here you go again. You have zero idea who phoned or texted him, what it said etc etc. It could have been his mother asking him what he wanted for dinner for all you and I know. Again I am sure if it was of 'interest' they would have unearthed the 'message' a long time ago.

[Baerboxer]

Just now, smutcakes said:

 

You have an amazing ability to recall events and pass them off as fact, when in reality you have no idea of what you are saying is true or not....

"little being done to prevent or catch"- You have zero idea what steps were being taken.

"While Charm vows any pro Shin Demonstrators will be protected"- Did he really say this? Or are you twisting words and meanings?

"or the lady getaway driver who crashed and that case simply vanished" Did it really vanish? do you know what happened? or are you just making this up?

"off duty policeman caught firing...." Was he never prosecuted? Do you know the background to the case? Perhaps you can provide a run down of what happened?

 

etc etc

 

I'm fed up with your constant denials of what actually happened, your ignorance of the facts that don't suit your very obvious agenda.

 

None of that is made up. But you won't research it because you don't want to know inconvenient facts. 

 

Quiet frankly, you're the first Shin fan and apologist I can no longer be bothered with. Well done, you outlasted most of the others whose avatars have long since vanished. 

[robblok]

Just now, smutcakes said:

I don't know, i am not an investigator- i would of thought given the power the army have over everything, if there was anyway they could link it to Thaksin they would of done so a long time ago. I expect they have left no stone unturned in trying to find that smoking gun...

 

'Who do you think made Jatuporn go back on the deal he did which would have prevented most if not all the deaths?"- Here you go again. You have zero idea who phoned or texted him, what it said etc etc. It could have been his mother asking him what he wanted for dinner for all you and I know. Again I am sure if it was of 'interest' they would have unearthed the 'message' a long time ago.

No we need court cases.. until people like you finally admit their what dirty games their side actually plays. 

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

I don't know, i am not an investigator- i would of thought given the power the army have over everything, if there was anyway they could link it to Thaksin they would of done so a long time ago. I expect they have left no stone unturned in trying to find that smoking gun...

 

'Who do you think made Jatuporn go back on the deal he did which would have prevented most if not all the deaths?"- Here you go again. You have zero idea who phoned or texted him, what it said etc etc. It could have been his mother asking him what he wanted for dinner for all you and I know. Again I am sure if it was of 'interest' they would have unearthed the 'message' a long time ago.

 

Who knows what information they authorities have, and why they choose to action some but maybe not others. So we all speculate. So go on, what's your best speculation on those questions? Hazard your best guess?

 

Jatuporn - so you admit there was a text, call? Interesting how you know that. Maybe because it was widely reported at the time? Could have been totally unconnected or it could have been an instruction from his boss?

 

Any idea who appointed him in that role btw?  Was that his mammy too?

Edited February 5, 2017 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

No we need court cases.. until people like you finally admit their what dirty games their side actually plays. 

 

He won't Rob. He will insist Thaksin is totally innocent, never ever done anything wrong, ever, in his life. Just like the script on the CNN and Korea TV interview Thaksin gave.

 

That's the new tactic. Simply deny, deny. and lie. Works well on some.

[than]

6 hours ago, smutcakes said:

I don't think people ever said they did not exist. I believe people questioned the veracity of how many there were, who they were, who organised them and the skills they had. None of which has been answered. 

 

 

Human Right Watch has give an answer to your question

Quote

The extensive casualties also resulted from deliberate attacks by militant armed elements of the UDD, whose leaders contributed to the violence with inflammatory speeches to demonstrators, including urging their supporters to carry out riots, arson attacks, and looting. The heavily armed “Black Shirt” militants, apparently connected to the UDD and operating in tandem with it, were responsible for deadly attacks on soldiers, police, and civilians.

Quote

In February 2010, Maj. Gen. Khattiya Sawasdipol, popularly known as “Seh Daeng” traveled to Dubai to meet Thaksin.[48] Upon his return, Khattiya said he would focus his energies on “my duty as head of a unit of security guards to provide protection for the Red Shirt supporters,” and that “the guards will make sure the Red Shirts will not be put down by government security forces.”[49] It is unclear what precise instructions Thaksin gave him.

 

Source Descent into Chaos - Human Rights Watch - Mai 2011

Edited February 5, 2017 by than

[AGareth2]

war is a dirty business

 

[Rimmer]

A couple of posts have been removed, please see the following rule that you should pay attention to:

 

1) You will not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or any one member of the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution.

By law, the Thai Royal Family are above politics. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

To breach these rules may result in immediate ban.

Linking to external sites which break these rules will be treated as if you yourself posted them.

[gamini]

7 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

Okay, i would be interested to see those posts. The questions of who they are, who paid them etc still remain unanswered. And do this motley crew excuse the army of killing 90 civilians? As far as  I am aware the black shirts were largely ineffective if they were employed to actually attack people.

 

If the men in Black had not fired at the army. There probably would have been no killings of civilians. I think it is pretty obvious who paid them.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, gamini said:

If the men in Black had not fired at the army. There probably would have been no killings of civilians. I think it is pretty obvious who paid them.

Yes for most of us its logical who paid them, but for some we need a court case to make sure its fact. 

 

If these red shirts were not convicted they could still say it was false flag or that there were no men in black. 

 

Now we all know who ultimately controls the redshirts.. and who lost a lot of money at around the same time.

 

 

[djjamie]

In Thailand sometimes the most obvious truths take years to be told.

 

One only needed to have unbiased eyes in 2010 to see this. Through the law it took 7 years.

[Roadman]

It is great to see the courts finally give this obvious judgement. And well done to the fellow handful of posters on this thread who at the time debated against the odds that Thaksin was the mastermind behind the terrorism activities being unleashed by the UDD, the Men in Black and Redshirts on Thailand and the people of Bangkok. And not only against Abhisit's government but also against the peaceful protestors under the reign of Thaksin's stool pidgeon Yingluck and his thug Charlem.

While the current Junta government is far from desirable and cops endless criticism it beats the pants off the mafia Shinawatra's and their need for murdering citizens just because they would not bow to them. It is a joy to travel through Issan these days and not be subject to the North Korean type gratification of leaders having giant posters of themselves. 

[hansnl]

6 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

And if he army and its backers respected the wishes of voters there would not have been any protesters to shoot and be shot at.

You really think so?

You really think any government is impressed with voters?

 

[Thailand]

Doubt if we will see any of the masked men surrounding Suthep during the carefully orchestrated pre coup extravaganza in court,back in barracks perhaps?

[than]

3 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Probably similar reason why they did not do their job in 2006 & 2014, because they are useless and incompetent and don't want confrontation.

 

But in October 2008, police has enjoy to kill protesters and injured 450, by use military grad grenades against civilians, medical teams and unarmed protesters.....

 

 

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, smutcakes said:

I don't think people ever said they did not exist. I believe people questioned the veracity of how many there were, who they were, who organised them and the skills they had. None of which has been answered. 

 

 

Not rocket science to guess answers to a couple of those questions. And perhaps add 'who financed them'?

[khunken]

43 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Doubt if we will see any of the masked men surrounding Suthep during the carefully orchestrated pre coup extravaganza in court,back in barracks perhaps?

Until the PDRC protestors were attacked, there were no armed, masked or otherwise, guards necessary. When the attacks started the PDRC did indeed recruit guards as the police, following Chalerm's CAPO's instructions did nothing and were actually told to arrest PDRC individuals for attacking themselves. 

 

One of the PDRC guards was the popcorn shooter (a civilian) whose case is now going through the court system. That particular incident saw the police protecting Ko Tee, one of the worst of the red shirt militia leaders & now AFAIK on the run abroad.

 

Another incident was the shooting (killing) of a PDRC leader near a temple on Bangna-Trad road where the police actually arrested another PDRC member as the alleged killer. It took the army to sort out the innocence of the PDRC victim and lead to the arrest of some Samut Prakarn red shirt militia.

 

You seem to give credence to the usual conspiracy crap as far as the PDRC protest went. It was (a) to ensure that Thaksin's amnesty bill died in the senate & (b) afterwards ensure that YL & co didn't reintroduce it after 3 months which the constitution allowed. Yes the PDRC went too far in disrupting the voting but that should have been handled & prevented by the police & not red shirt militias who only know lethal violence & intimidation.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2017 by khunken

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Wikileaks is about as much proof as you can get. They are private internal memos between the US Ambassador and authorities in the US. They were never supposed to be public. You can look for it yourself. I am not quite sure why you are gloating, i don't think i have ever denied their were armed red shirts or men in black. Any deaths are unfortunate, perhaps if the army did their job, and did not keep kicking out Governments people would not feel the need to start mass protests and voilence.

 Last line ... yawn. Because it's just as obvious if certain parties (and their owners) respected the tenants of democracy, elections, the laws of Thailand, obvious truths of building a civil society etc, there would be no need for any of this...

Edited February 5, 2017 by scorecard

[smutcakes]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 Last line ... yawn. Because it's just as obvious if certain parties (and their owners) respected the tenants of democracy, elections, etc, there would be no need for any of this...

15+ coups prior to Thaksin indicates you are very much wrong.

[scorecard]

31 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

15+ coups prior to Thaksin indicates you are very much wrong.

Actually your blanket assumption has very little foundation.

[candide]

40 minutes ago, khunken said:

Until the PDRC protestors were attacked, there were no armed, masked or otherwise, guards necessary. When the attacks started the PDRC did indeed recruit guards as the police, following Chalerm's CAPO's instructions did nothing and were actually told to arrest PDRC individuals for attacking themselves. 

 

One of the PDRC guards was the popcorn shooter (a civilian) whose case is now going through the court system. That particular incident saw the police protecting Ko Tee, one of the worst of the red shirt militia leaders & now AFAIK on the run abroad.

 

Another incident was the shooting (killing) of a PDRC leader near a temple on Bangna-Trad road where the police actually arrested another PDRC member as the alleged killer. It took the army to sort out the innocence of the PDRC victim and lead to the arrest of some Samut Prakarn red shirt militia.

 

You seem to give credence to the usual conspiracy crap as far as the PDRC protest went. It was (a) to ensure that Thaksin's amnesty bill died in the senate & (b) afterwards ensure that YL & co didn't reintroduce it after 3 months which the constitution allowed. Yes the PDRC went too far in disrupting the voting but that should have been handled & prevented by the police & not red shirt militias who only know lethal violence & intimidation.

 

 

What you call the conspiracy crap (suggesting it is like saying men never walked on the moon, or that the CIA organised the destruction of the twin towers) is widely supported by media analysts and political science academics. And even by Suthep himself! I think you would have some difficulties to find any serious and neutral source (i.e. not Porpimol at The Nation) that supports the contrary.

As for the police and the government not preventing the blocking of elections, they perfectly knew that if they did, the army and the judicial would have sanctioned them.

[khunken]

1 minute ago, candide said:

What you call the conspiracy crap (suggesting it is like saying men never walked on the moon, or that the CIA organised the destruction of the twin towers) is widely supported by media analysts and political science academics. And even by Suthep himself! I think you would have some difficulties to find any serious and neutral source (i.e. not Porpimol at The Nation) that supports the contrary.

As for the police and the government not preventing the blocking of elections, they perfectly knew that if they did, the army and the judicial would have sanctioned them.

 

Yes Suthep claimed once that he had the army's agreement to stage a coup and you believe him? No doubt there are some who support the conspiracy but their opinion doesn't amount to fact.

Your last sentence is another perfect example of conspiracy crap as the police were supporting the red shirt militias who were actually overdoing the police's job of prevention of law breaking as well as killing innocent protestors.